College Basketball Coaching Carousel

canderson

Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016
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Fire Shaka Smart, the biggest fraud in college basketball.

Please, CDC. Pretty pleased.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It’s a shame what happened to Tony Shaver at William & Mary. 18 years with track record of (relative) success and spotless reputation only to be dismissed by a 3rd year AD the spring prior to returning most of team and likely being conference favorites. Such a dirty game this is.
 

gingerbreadmann

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Mar 11, 2008
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It’s a shame what happened to Tony Shaver at William & Mary. 18 years with track record of (relative) success and spotless reputation only to be dismissed by a 3rd year AD the spring prior to returning most of team and likely being conference favorites. Such a dirty game this is.
16 years is a really, really long time in Division I to tread water and hope for an outlier season to strike. We have been in the position you described more than once before (2015 most notably) and repeatedly come up short. I think Shaver, as gracious of a guy as they come, would still admit he has had ample opportunity to ditch the Tourney albatross and become coach for life. But he never made it over the hump.

As I'm sure you know, there is no way the 3rd-year AD made the decision to buy out Shaver for $1.7 million, an unprecedented move for W&M, on her own. I take that as a sign the new administration are willing to invest more in the team to take it to the next level. While I would have been happy to let next season play out, this sort of dedication to the program cannot come soon enough. Nathan Knight will still be coming back as far as I know, and if that's the case then we're still in a good spot.

I know you are pretty involved with the game firsthand so if you have more to share then I'm all ears. But as an alum who follows closely and also is a big Shaver fan, I really think given the fact that he was fired, this was all handled quite fairly. The stuff you said in your post has been the consensus reaction among our geriatric fans online (not talking about you), with a healthy dose of thinly veiled sexism towards the new, young (and maybe even ambitious!) female AD and president. It drives me crazy. There's no reason we can't dream a little bigger without sacrificing character.
 

HomeRunBaker

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16 years is a really, really long time in Division I to tread water and hope for an outlier season to strike. We have been in the position you described more than once before (2015 most notably) and repeatedly come up short. I think Shaver, as gracious of a guy as they come, would still admit he has had ample opportunity to ditch the Tourney albatross and become coach for life. But he never made it over the hump.

As I'm sure you know, there is no way the 3rd-year AD made the decision to buy out Shaver for $1.7 million, an unprecedented move for W&M, on her own. I take that as a sign the new administration are willing to invest more in the team to take it to the next level. While I would have been happy to let next season play out, this sort of dedication to the program cannot come soon enough. Nathan Knight will still be coming back as far as I know, and if that's the case then we're still in a good spot.

I know you are pretty involved with the game firsthand so if you have more to share then I'm all ears. But as an alum who follows closely and also is a big Shaver fan, I really think given the fact that he was fired, this was all handled quite fairly. The stuff you said in your post has been the consensus reaction among our geriatric fans online (not talking about you), with a healthy dose of thinly veiled sexism towards the new, young (and maybe even ambitious!) female AD and president. It drives me crazy. There's no reason we can't dream a little bigger without sacrificing character.
No, this is some great insight. We can speculate all we want without any actual evidence but one thing we do know is that collegiate athletics performs on a corporate structure today more than ever. You have a longtime coach who is 65-years old who may or may not work well with a new (female) AD and a brand new (female) school President......with the changes in our culture from when Shaver was first hired I can easily lean toward, "probably doesn't" when you also factor in these leaders wanting to bring in their own people. There could be much more to the story as we've seen older men in other professions not adapting well to both younger and female leadership while making foolish statements......maybe stuff occurred behind the scenes we don't know but certainly possible. Either way Shaver picked the wrong year to go 14-17 regardless of the circumstances.

Further proof that D-1 jobs are about Wins/Losses and Home Attendance gate receipts......it's all about the money and new administration coming in is always going to be looking to make their mark out of the gate. The point of my post was essentially that without changes in the school's Presidency and Athletic leadership we'd be seeing Shaver leading a very good Tribe squad into the '19-'20 season.
 

gingerbreadmann

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Mar 11, 2008
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Further proof that D-1 jobs are about Wins/Losses and Home Attendance gate receipts......it's all about the money and new administration coming in is always going to be looking to make their mark out of the gate. The point of my post was essentially that without changes in the school's Presidency and Athletic leadership we'd be seeing Shaver leading a very good Tribe squad into the '19-'20 season.
Your point is absolutely true, and I don't think any fan (including me) would have batted an eye at giving him next year with the roster in prime position to make a run. This was a totally shocking move; our football coach of 39(!) years just retired and I honestly thought Shaver similarly would be here as long as he wanted to be.

Regarding attendance, on gamedays the stands are about 40% students and 60% Williamsburg retirees wearing pastel sweaters and pleated khakis. That's ignoring that the way-too-big arena is over 50% empty to begin with -- a bad look if there ever was one. There are hundreds of thousands of basketball fans from Hampton Roads to Richmond, not to mention lots of talented players. To me making more of an effort to attract families and casual fans to the games (who don't have pro teams in the area) instead of continuing to cater to the local retiree crowd, who donate lots of money and love Shaver's gentlemanly nature, is crucial to keeping the program afloat well into the future and is an excellent strategy.

The more I read about Shaver’s firing the more pissed off I get. Hearing the new AD talk about higher expectations when you have the CAA’s best record over the past 6 season stinks and smells of bs.l
Curious what about this story made you feel further in that direction? The author, who does have plenty of good pro-Shaver points and anecdotes, makes it clear that this came from above the AD. There is no doubt that they are taking a risk here but it's not like we have been bathing in success for 16 years, even the last 6 when we have had a better record relatively speaking (just 1 NIT appearance; 2 CAA finals). I think in our specific case you may be underestimating the thirst of fans (and now apparently the administration as well) to make the NCAA tournament. This is the first thing mentioned any time W&M basketball gets brought up in a national context. Every single time. Northwestern just had their moment in the sun and I don't blame the school for wanting to be the next one to get out of the club. If this move doesn't pan out, so be it but at least they went down swinging.

Just to be clear, a lot more shoes have to drop before I am convinced whether this was a good or bad move, but I believe that the school didn't owe Shaver anything more than his buyout and ethical treatment on the way out. To me this was handled professionally and I support the greater push for success from the new powers that be. It seems like they are for the first time looking at sports as an avenue to raise the national profile of the school.

Reading Dana O'Neil's story on this, it is a joke how they treated Martelli.
Read that this morning and was going to post because it echoes the themes we've been discussing. Comments section has some good back and forth as well. Link (paywall): https://theathletic.com/877813/2019/03/19/class-is-out-separations-are-never-easy-but-phil-martelli-and-fran-dunphy-deserved-much-better-from-their-schools/
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Your point is absolutely true, and I don't think any fan (including me) would have batted an eye at giving him next year with the roster in prime position to make a run. This was a totally shocking move; our football coach of 39(!) years just retired and I honestly thought Shaver similarly would be here as long as he wanted to be.

Regarding attendance, on gamedays the stands are about 40% students and 60% Williamsburg retirees wearing pastel sweaters and pleated khakis. That's ignoring that the way-too-big arena is over 50% empty to begin with -- a bad look if there ever was one. There are hundreds of thousands of basketball fans from Hampton Roads to Richmond, not to mention lots of talented players. To me making more of an effort to attract families and casual fans to the games (who don't have pro teams in the area) instead of continuing to cater to the local retiree crowd, who donate lots of money and love Shaver's gentlemanly nature, is crucial to keeping the program afloat well into the future and is an excellent strategy.


Curious what about this story made you feel further in that direction? The author, who does have plenty of good pro-Shaver points and anecdotes, makes it clear that this came from above the AD. There is no doubt that they are taking a risk here but it's not like we have been bathing in success for 16 years, even the last 6 when we have had a better record relatively speaking (just 1 NIT appearance; 2 CAA finals). I think in our specific case you may be underestimating the thirst of fans (and now apparently the administration as well) to make the NCAA tournament. This is the first thing mentioned any time W&M basketball gets brought up in a national context. Every single time. Northwestern just had their moment in the sun and I don't blame the school for wanting to be the next one to get out of the club. If this move doesn't pan out, so be it but at least they went down swinging.

Just to be clear, a lot more shoes have to drop before I am convinced whether this was a good or bad move, but I believe that the school didn't owe Shaver anything more than his buyout and ethical treatment on the way out. To me this was handled professionally and I support the greater push for success from the new powers that be. It seems like they are for the first time looking at sports as an avenue to raise the national profile of the school.
Couple points.....

* I’m not sure if the orders came from the first year President based on the actions of the second-year AD but approving a $1.7m at W&M surely indicates if not confirms her support. Apparently Huge (the AD) has already made sweeping changes in the programs such as raising the prices on everything, charging extra licensing fees on football tickets, and unrealistic plans for Kaplan Arena.

* I always had great respect for Shaver from his Hampton-Sydney program when I played against them for Guilford College as they were a machine from the top of their roster to the bottom every year. I’m also sensitive to the ceiling that IMHO he’s touched recruiting at W&M as we faced a worst problem at Guilford playing in the ODAC as the only non-Virginia school when VA didn’t have a D-2 conference. If a player didn’t go to Va, Richmond, VCU, etc they ended up in the ODAC.

I get your point, and it's correct, but this happens in just about every sport, every profession, everywhere.
I agree it’s just frustrating to see it happen to successful guys like Shaver and I’ll admit I am allowing personal feelings to get involved.
 
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MetSox1

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I love the disucssion, on both sides, of the Shaver issue. I'm a CAA guy (Drexel) and have my ear to the ground pretty well in the Association. I think that there can be an argument for moving on from Tony Shaver, if there is a truck load of money and a new philosophy behind it. However, I don't think there is a sound argument for the timing.

Shaver's success this year had automatically triggered a contract extension, which is why that buyout was so high. Nathan Knight is the likely preseason Player of the Year next year and the Tribe would have been picked second (likely with some first place votes) in the preseason poll. Now, they'll almost certainly lose Chase Audige, who would have been special, Justin Pierce and Matt Milon, and any incoming recruits Shaver had lined up. Those three, plus Rowley, who graduates, made up the entire surrounding team for Knight. Pending the coaching hire (and no up and comer will want a thankless, winless job, so it will be a veteran retread) this team likely will now be picked 6th or 7th. They are losing their very viable chance to dance this year, and a respected head coach and they are spending 1.7MM to do it. That's insane at this level of college athletics.

The most likely reason that I've heard for doing that is simply that Shaver wasn't loved by Huge or the President, and Huge was worried about exactly what both of you have said - if he wins next year, he's coach for life. They don't want to be stuck to that, since, amongst other things, the AD will want to eventually put her mark on that program. She is an up and comer - or was prior to this very visible mistake.

If he didn't win next year, and you want to spend 1.5 to buy him out, I think that makes fine sense. But throwing away one of your best teams on paper teams in the history of the school - there better be one hell of an announcement to follow, and from everyone I've talked to around the league, there's no rumblings at all of that happening.
 

HomeRunBaker

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jmanny24

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As UNLV fan of nearly 30 years, not sure how I feel about people wanting Mike Miller to be the next coach, he's been an assistant for 11 months. I think plan A is Thad Matta and Miller is B. I'd like them to look at (although I don't know the ins and outs of how realistic they are) Travis DeCuire at Montana, Jeff Linder (No. Colorado), Mark Pope (Utah Valley) even Russell Turner and Dedrique Taylor (Fullerton). The coaching situation has been a mess forever, and they need to stop dreaming that they are the prestigious program of 30 years ago and make the best hire for the program and not the brand, there is no more brand.
 

DrewDawg

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Per radio chatter on ride in this morning:

Cal wants Jason Kidd.

Texas A&M wants Buzz Peterson.
 

Awesome Fossum

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I'm a W&M guy. There was clearly a disconnect between Shaver and Huge over what constitutes success. Shaver's position is that the team is as competitive in conference as we've ever been, attendance is trending up, what's the problem? Why not pad the schedule with some D-III games so we can chase 20-win seasons? We're in a one-bid league, so what's the difference?

The counterargument is that the College was effectively relegated when the CAA was ravaged in the last round of realignment. We're not bringing in anything to speak of through media rights. Shaver didn't want to schedule A-10 schools out of conference to bring in money. For an FCS school, basketball needs to be the engine driving the Athletic Department, and there's a serious sense of complacency with everyone patting themselves on the back after going 10-8 in conference every season.

I don't think either position is necessarily wrong, but I also don't think there's much of a middle ground. Either we're at or near our potential, in which case we should probably pursue the Patriot, where we can chase the NCAA Tournament in a one-bid league on equal footing from an admissions perspective. Or, we can aspire to be more, in which case we need to be really aggressive in getting the program in a position to jump back to a multi-bid league.

Apart from all of that is the execution. For Huge's sake, I hope the next hire is a home run, because the pitchforks are sharpened and ready to go.

The stuff you said in your post has been the consensus reaction among our geriatric fans online (not talking about you), with a healthy dose of thinly veiled sexism towards the new, young (and maybe even ambitious!) female AD and president. It drives me crazy. There's no reason we can't dream a little bigger without sacrificing character.
Totally agree. The weirdest part to me are the accusations of Huge doing this for her own personal glory, as if a) ambition is a character flaw, and b) her success is independent from the College's. It's been bizarre.
 

Average Reds

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MetSox1

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Billy Lange is done and done at SJU.

Of more importance to some on this board, Billy Coen certainly appears to be gone from NU, likely by choice. Multiple upperclassman transfers, kids who were or would have been starting on the preseason #1 team.

The CAA this offseason... wow.
 

MetSox1

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Nathan Knight declares for the draft at WM.

Him, and a lot of the guys in the transfer portal, could all come back, but as of right now, the Tribe has 3.6 ppg returning from last years team. That is not a typo. And quite frankly, no promise that the two guys who make that up are staying.
 

HomeRunBaker

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As UNLV fan of nearly 30 years, not sure how I feel about people wanting Mike Miller to be the next coach, he's been an assistant for 11 months. I think plan A is Thad Matta and Miller is B. I'd like them to look at (although I don't know the ins and outs of how realistic they are) Travis DeCuire at Montana, Jeff Linder (No. Colorado), Mark Pope (Utah Valley) even Russell Turner and Dedrique Taylor (Fullerton). The coaching situation has been a mess forever, and they need to stop dreaming that they are the prestigious program of 30 years ago and make the best hire for the program and not the brand, there is no more brand.
Tremendous hire by UNLV in landing S.Dakota St's TJ Otzelberger who is a fast riser and this will probably be his final step before an elite program scoops him up. Enjoy him while you have him and if he recruits like he did at Iowa State when he was an Assistant under Hoibert he's going to bring the Rebels back to national prominence.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Texas A & M trying to lure Buzz away from Virgina Tech, according to Jon Rothstein.
He’s at $2.6m now by the numbers I see so VTech could surely pony up some more to entice Buzz to stay. The problem for the Hokies is that Buzz is a Texas guy who has already served as an Aggie assistant for 3 years under Gilliapie. A&M probably doesn’t need a secondary candidate.
 

bosockboy

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He wants Texas. Shaka’s buyout is massive or else he’d be there as soon as Tech gets ousted.

I don’t see any program open now that hires him away this offseason.
Unless he’s set on that he can probably get bigger. I can see UCLA offering a blank check.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Nebraska hired Fred Hoiberg and he is bringing St. John's top assistant and former Hoiberg assistant Matt Abdelmassih with him. He was the top recruiter for Hoiberg at Iowa State and was the same for Chris Mullin at St. John's.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Seth Davis says UCLA offered Calipari a 6 year, $48 million deal but Cal turned it down because UK offered him a lifetime contract as coach then paid ambassador for the school.

The University of Kentucky has offered John Calipari what is essentially a lifetime contract extension in response to a lucrative offer the coach has received from UCLA, The Athletic has learned.

UCLA offered Calipari a contract worth approximately $48 million over six years, according to a source with direct knowledge of the situation. The contacts between Calipari and UCLA have been more extensive than previously reported, but Calipari told UCLA last week he is not interested in leaving Kentucky.

Kentucky gave UCLA permission to speak with Calipari but did not take seriously the possibility that he would leave, partly because in the past UCLA has not committed nearly the same type of financial resources that Kentucky has for basketball. (Calipari is the highest-paid basketball coach in the country, making $9.2 million this year, according to the USA Today Sports database.) Once Kentucky learned how serious UCLA’s offer was, it offered Calipari, who turned 60 in February, the extension. The school is not looking to substantially enhance Calipari’s annual compensation, but the new contract would include a 10-year term as coach plus a promise to serve as a paid ambassador for the school after his retirement. Calipari’s current contract runs through 2024, after an extension in 2017.

Once Calipari told UCLA he was declining its offer, the school shifted its focus to its next tier of candidates. UCLA representatives have met with former Ohio State coach Thad Matta, but he has withdrawn his name from consideration. UCLA also wants to pursue Virginia coach Tony Bennett, but he has declined to have any conversations until his team is through playing. The Cavaliers will face Auburn on Saturday night at the Final Four in Minneapolis.
https://theathletic.com/900121/
 

garlan5

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confident Bennett isn't going anywhere with the exception of a try at the nba one day. Which that's unlikely as well. Bennett is compensated well at UVA.
 

Humphrey

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UCLA equals UNLV job wise. Biggest names not going there. Dixon or St Mary's Bennett would be good hires.
 

gingerbreadmann

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W&M hires Dane Fischer, assistant at Mason who has followed Dave Paulsen around most of his career. Let the hot takes begin! (Just kidding, they already have)
 

HomeRunBaker

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Seth Davis says UCLA offered Calipari a 6 year, $48 million deal but Cal turned it down because UK offered him a lifetime contract as coach then paid ambassador for the school.



https://theathletic.com/900121/
Calipari is so good at what he does.......leverage himself for raises and extensions.

He did it at Memphis when he interviewed for an NC State job that he didn’t want to get a raise. Another time casually mentioned South Carolina with a smirk only to never utter that schools name again following another raise. He’s used the NBA a couple years ago for same and now UCLA to earn a lifetime contract after he’s done coaching.

Kudos to you Cal.....you’re the Kenny Brooks of coaches!!!