Clowney, the unblockable Cock

[LeoCarrillo]

Is South Carolina DE Jadeveon Clowney about to have the best defensive year in college history? Will the Chiefs, Jags and Raiders be tanking games to draft this monster No. 1? Is an SEC quarterback actually going to be killed by head-in-helmet decapitation? 
 
6-foot-6, 275 pounds and runs a 4.46 in the 40. He dominated the nation's best football conference as a sophomore, winning SEC Defensive Player of the Year and was 6th in Heisman voting. Consensus is he would've gone top-three -- very possibly No. 1 -- into the NFL but the rules forced him back to college for a junior year.
 
And, of course, in the Outback Bowl came The Hit:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENuZHnQlqX0
 
Clowney says QBs have fear in their eyes. LSU QB Zach Mettenberger said "I almost crapped my pants" when he saw Clowney across the line of scrimmage last year, and Georgia coach Mark Richt admits if he were still a player, "I'd be afraid of him."
 
Football fans, brace yourselves for the Clownado.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Bruce Feldman named Clowney to the top of his Freaks list
 

The Tendo is an electronic power and speed analyzer (a speedometer of sorts) invented in Slovakia and has been around for about a decade in the U.S. strength and conditioning community.
"It's become one of the go-to tests in the strength industry," said Bert Sorin, owner and VP of Sorinex Exercise Equipment, the sole North American distributor of the Tendo. "It's changed the way a lot of people are training. Now you have a quality approach instead of just reps. You can see what kind of force is produced."
 

"It measures velocity and power in meters per second," explained Joe Connolly, the Gamecocks head football strength and conditioning coach. "It'll give you a power number, and it's expressed in watts. It takes into account body weight and different things. (Clowney) is in the 8000s and we're talking repetitive numbers in the 8500-range, and there isn't anybody on the team within 2000 of that.
"Clowney has a 8655w peak power reading. The closest number that a teammate has is a 6800w peak power reading. This differential is pretty vast. One major difference is JD can produce this kind of power repeatedly. Nobody else can do that."
 
Connolly's example: "Clowney first jump: 8655w. Jump two: 8653w. Jump three: 8650w. The rest of the word: Jump one: 6600w. Jump two: 6300w. Jump three: 6000w."

 Since then Clowney has blossomed into a 275-pound guy who has many seeing him as the first pick in next year's NFL Draft and a viable Heisman Trophy candidate. "His first step was lightning, and that's just who is he and what God gave him," said Connolly. "The difference with him is that he's faster at 275 now. He's even more explosive and powerful at 275, which is frightening."
Clowney was tested by Gamecock coaches the week before South Carolina started spring ball. He vertical jumped 38 inches and clocked a 4.54 40 weighing 274 pounds. A year ago, he ran a 4.58 at 257.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Clowney is a total freak but there's a good chance that Teddy Bridgewater is the #1 pick, assuming he continues to impress.  Elite QB prospect > generational DE prospect.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Clowney is a total freak but there's a good chance that Teddy Bridgewater is the #1 pick, assuming he continues to impress.  Elite QB prospect > generational DE prospect.

 
That's the only name I'm seeing as possibly leaping Clowney. Unless this kid is RG IV, not sure that's smart. (Think: David Carr over Julius Peppers in '02.)

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

That's the only name I'm seeing as possibly leaping Clowney. Unless this kid is RG IV, not sure that's smart. (Think: David Carr over Julius Peppers in '02.)

 
Yup, Bridgewater still has a lot to prove and Clowney is likely to be a very safe bet as an elite pass rusher so this really could go in any direction.  But I think most teams picking at the top will have a hard time passing on a QB if they really do like him.  Clowney gets compared to Peppers a lot and I think that's kind of an instructive comparison.  Peppers was a great player but would you rather have him or, say, Matt Ryan (who might be a reasonable comp for Bridgewater) if you're building a team from the ground up?

 

[soxfan121]

MMS - you think Clowney's ceiling is Julius Peppers?
 
It's interesting to note that Bill Parcells was asked earlier this week who he would select to "build a team around" and he chose Lawrence Taylor. And frankly, I see LT as a better comparison to Clowney, even with the positional difference. Clowney will be a "must double-team" from Week 1 of his first NFL season. And that might not be enough blockers. But at the very least, Clowney will absolutely transform the defense of any team that selects him and he will be force to be reckoned with each and every week. Bridgewater, or whomever, might be very good or even great; Clowney IS great and WILL BE an impact player. 
 
Sure thing or potential franchise QB, with the accent on potential? I'm going sure thing and Clowney, even if I'm the Jags or Raiders (two teams who desperately need an upgrade at QB).

 

[sachmoney]

Agree with SF121 (wow). Bridgewater might be a really good QB in the NFL, possibly even elite, but Clowney is a generational talent that will transform a defense. You don't take a QB over him. You just don't.

 

[riboflav]

Agree with SF121 (wow). Bridgewater might be a really good QB in the NFL, possibly even elite, but Clowney is a generational talent that will transform a defense. You don't take a QB over him. You just don't.

 
Let's not go crazy. I think we'd all take Brady, Montana, Manning, etc. over him.

 

[soxfan121]

Let's not go crazy. I think we'd all take Brady, Montana, Manning, etc. over him.

 
Brady, 6th round. Montana, 3rd round. I think there's lots of pre-draft talent evaluations that are worth revisiting. 
 
Manning? That was a franchise QB at the top of his draft class and a "known" commodity. Andrew Luck and RG3...those would be interesting discussions. 
 
I've never watched Teddy Bridgewater play but he's not the consensus #1 QB in next year's class, is he? With a stellar season, maybe Bridgewater makes this a real decision. But Bridgewater isn't a sure-fire, can't-miss prospect like Luck or Manning, at least as far as I know. 
 
So, if it's case of a guy who MIGHT be a great QB or a guy who IS a great defensive game changer...which way do you go?

 

[JimBoSox9]

IIRC, wasn't Manning such a 'known' commodity that there was debate about Ryan Leaf being the better bet? I think that directly supports your point, doesn't go against it. You can find a QB if you're smart and lucky. You can't find this dude.

Edit: just for the record, I have some doubts about his motor as a 3-down player when everyone leaning on him is huge. But his ceiling is generational and his floor still includes a savage pass rush, so shit yeah.

 

[riboflav]

My bad. I had originally read his remarks as he would never take a QB, any QB, over a generational talent at DE. That was not what he meant and thus I was wrong.

 

[sachmoney]

I didn't say that, but I could have been more clear about it. I don't think Bridgewater is a Brady or Manning or someone of that ilk. In fact, I don't think he's RG3 or a Luck either, at this point. He is the number one QB right now (keep in mind, Matt Barkley was the top guy going into last season). I'm not sure he'll be there at the end of the season, and he is certainly not without flaws (I'd love to see him be more consistent). Bridgewater is a really likable kid with a great story. I'm going to root for him, but with all that said, I don't see him usurping my opinion that Clowney is the number one pick. 

 

[Granite Sox]

(Apropos of nothing related to skills analysis and value, but props for a very solid thread title)

 

[LeoCarrillo]

(Apropos of nothing related to skills analysis and value, but props for a very solid thread title)


Thanks. Full disclosure: I've got some pain in the ass in-laws who are relentless Clemson yappers so I've been a secret Clowney fanboy since he wrecking-balled Death Valley last year and sacked Tajh Boyd 4 1/2 times.

 

[sachmoney]

Speaking of Clemson:

 But if Tuesday was any indication, Clowney doesn't need Twitter to talk smack. He had some choice words for the quarterback of his team's archrival.
 
"You can see in his eyes that he's scared of our D-line," Clowney said of Clemson quarterback Tajh Boyd, who he sacked 4.5 times last season. "He is scared every time we play them. I know he's listening to this right now, but I'm telling the truth."

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

MMS - you think Clowney's ceiling is Julius Peppers?
 
It's interesting to note that Bill Parcells was asked earlier this week who he would select to "build a team around" and he chose Lawrence Taylor. And frankly, I see LT as a better comparison to Clowney, even with the positional difference. Clowney will be a "must double-team" from Week 1 of his first NFL season. And that might not be enough blockers. But at the very least, Clowney will absolutely transform the defense of any team that selects him and he will be force to be reckoned with each and every week. Bridgewater, or whomever, might be very good or even great; Clowney IS great and WILL BE an impact player. 
 
Sure thing or potential franchise QB, with the accent on potential? I'm going sure thing and Clowney, even if I'm the Jags or Raiders (two teams who desperately need an upgrade at QB).

His ceiling is higher than Peppers, but Peppers is the most comparable prospect to Clowney so his career is instructive. Peppers was also a physical freak and he used that athleticism to become a great nfl player, but athleticism alone wont make you a truly dominant defensive player. You also need motor and instincts and patience for tape and other qualities that are hard to judge in any college prospect, including Clowney. There are a lot of bumps in the road between "generational college prospect" and "top 10 all time NFL defender," which is about what Clowney needs to be for him to be worth more than a Pro bowl level QB. The jury is still out on whether Bridgewater is that kind of prospect but he might be and, if so, a team would probably be wise to take him over Clowney.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I think Clowney will go #1, but its going to be interesting between now and next year.  Big secret down here that national media hasn't focused on is his level of effort during a game.  Spurrier regularly benches him during the games, for attitude and effort reasons, and chunks of games go on with Clowney on the sideline.  The Clemson game is a good example, I was there, he's a hard guy to miss and he wasn't on the field for a better part of the 2nd and 3rd quarters, but it goes down as a great game because he had 4.5 sacks.  And he was an absolute beast in the 4th quarter.  I think part of it is he's got an eye for when to go hard and he gears up when he knows he can make a play.  But watch a game early in the season, see what happens when he's double teamed, and watch him go half speed... happens a bunch. 
 
The play against Michigan was a missed assignment.  He didn't beat anyone, just ran through a vacated hole.  Up till then he was getting dominated by the Michigan LT, and it showed because he sulked and sat.
 
I'm just curious to know what true GM's think of him once they digest the film.  On one hand you've got a once in a generation talent, on the other hand he only goes hard when he wants, but when he does, look out.  It's going to be interesting.

 

[yeahlunchbox]

Wasn't the big knock on Mario Williams coming out of NC State his motor and if he would give full effort during games?  If Clowney gets through this season healthy with the production people expect I have a hard time seeing him not going number 1.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I don't remember much about Mario Williams and his rep coming out of college.  But I think you nailed it BigSoxFan, the national media is focused on the big play and not the body of work.  He'll be under the microscope this year being a Heisman and possible #1 pick candidate, so they'll be all over it if he does what he did last year.

 

[sachmoney]

The Michigan LT you refer to is Taylor Lewan, who should also go in the top ten next year. 

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I knew Lewan was good, but I was too lazy to go dig for his name.  See below.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Might want to change the thread title to "Blockable"  Here's a look at plays over the course of a game. Lewan handles him pretty easily.
 
Look at the play at 5:07, plays like that put him on the bench.  QB a sitting duck, he stands up and pretty much watches.
 
http://youtu.be/2cpIkjW-CY4

 

[TomRicardo]

Might want to change the thread title to "Blockable"  Here's a look at plays over the course of a game. Lewan handles him pretty easily.
 
Look at the play at 5:07, plays like that put him on the bench.  QB a sitting duck, he stands up and pretty much watches.
 
http://youtu.be/2cpIkjW-CY4

 
Did you watch the video?
 
Clowney is having his way with Lewan.  First play Clowney blows by Lewan and forces Denard to throw a crap pass in fear. 
 
Edit - There is a nice slow motion video of Lewan grabbing Clowney's facemask trying to stop him.
 
The only time they were effective was when they double teamed Clowney aka the play at 5:07.  The very next play on the video is Lewan and another guy getting housed so bad they have to hold Clowney.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

If we're talking about the #1 pick and possible Heisman finalist, I expect more.
 
He's explosive in open space, but seems to quit when he gets manned up and muscled.  They do double him some, but I couldn't find a play where he beat a double team, he had several where once he realized he was doubled he just quit.  I don't think the guy plays like the freak his few highlight plays indicate he is.  Again, crazy fast in open space but easy to neutralize when he's in traffic, squared up with one blocker, or double teamed.  
 
As of now, I don't see the motor he'll need in the NFL to be as good as the elite rush D ends.  Freeney, JJ Watt, etc.  I don't see him with that kind of motor.  Fast first step, but the continued effort is lacking in my opinion.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

We shall see, Paulin. But c'mon, the kid was a natural sophomore last year. Lewan should get props for a good game. But, as someone mentioned, Lewan is a top-10 pick. Clowney was 19 years old in that game. He's put on 20 pounds and gotten faster.

Freeney was nowhere near this kid's league in college. Freeney had a great senior season, so you could hold that up against Clowney's sophomore season. But that's in the Big East. Not the SEC. 
 
Freeney went No. 11. Clowney's had No. 1 pick written all over him since he was the nation's top high-school recruit two years ago. I can envision some perfect-storm breakthrough QB scenario where he slips to No. 2. Maybe. Not likely. But I doubt any NFL GMs are talking themselves out of his once-in-a-generation physical gifts because of motor concerns.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I'm not saying he's not a great player, just that there is reason, evidence on film to offset the questions you yourself raised in the opening of this thread which you title "Clowney, the unblockable cock" and asked if is he about to have the greatest defensive year in the history of the NCAA.  When you set the bar for a thread like that, don't be surprised that when someone mentions some evidence that runs counter to your initial point.  Mine happened to be some very close observation over the last two years, namely that Spurrier benches him for stretches at a time for effort reasons and I happened to find a game vid on youtube that chronicled every play of his most famous game.  A game where he had 3 tackles in addition to the play that won him the ESPY.  Yet, he had his way with the Michigan line.  
 
You don't like my comps, no problem, so how about Bruce Irvin, college version?  Imagine if Clowney had Irvin's "college" motor. Then we'd be talking about what you suggest in the first sentence of this thread.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Fair enough. Sounds like you're watching closely enough to see the warts and all part. It will be fun to see what goes down.

 

[Carmine Hose]

It all starts with the QB and is Bridgewater or someone else is deemed franchise-worthy and the #1 pick team needs one, that's what they'll take.  That said, they should drop down a spot or two for team lusting after Clowney, take a couple of future #1s and still get the QB.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Here's an article covering what I posted earlier.  Should be an interesting year.  With the spotlight intense and the draft looming, if he takes plays off this year, its going to cost him $$$.
 
http://www.wltx.com/news/article/245213/2/Jadeveon-Clowneys-90-Percent-Resolution

 

[Bozo Texino]

Are other big names in the NCAA taking cash for autographs?
 
Some interesting digging by Good Bull Hunting.  That said, still no proof that Clowney - or Manziel - actually accepted payment for signing items; just speculation that they did, because "who would sign all of this stuff for free?"

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I'm curious (and a bit lazy)...is it against NCAA regs for a player to buy a jersey with their money, autograph it, and then put it on ebay and make the profit?

 

[cutman1000]

I'm going to disagree with my fellow South Carolinian, Paul, about Clowney.  I think he is absolutely as good as the hype suggests, and I've seen most of his games at USC.  Can't wait to see what he does this year.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

My point is that he doesn't go hard until he wants, not that he isn't great when he does.  His effort level isn't often enough for me to declare him the best defensive player in the history of college football. 
 
It's pretty obvious to his coaches, so I'm surprised you haven't noticed, but either way its probably a moot point. With the spotlight on, I'd be surprised if he plays like he has the last 2 years.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I thought his effort looked just fine on the Michigan tape.  If you showed me a full game video of any d lineman, and couldn't find a couple plays where they saw they were doubled, realized the play wasn't going to be near them and eased up, I will be shocked.  I think it's also pretty evident from watching the film that Michigan's offense did everything they could to neutralize him, running about 90% (and that's not an exaggeration and might be on the low side) of their plays away from him, running a number of screens to use his speed off the line against him, and running a bunch of quick drop back/short pattern pass plays.  By having to game plan that hard against one guy, he makes the jobs of the other 10 guys on the field with him much, much easier and that can't be overstated. 
 
I watch more than a metric fuckton of football, and I believe he has the quickest first step I've ever seen, by a wide margin, for someone at his age.  If it's true he's put on 20 pounds and gotten faster, this season could be epic.  If Spurrier is benching him because he doesn't put in 1000% on every play, I think it's more of a case of a coach trying to motivate his best player to work even harder, and not a true indicator of a character flaw that affects his on field play.  Like I said, from that tape, he looked like he worked damn hard on virtually every play, and I can't fault a guy for taking a breather on occasion, especially when it's evident that he has no chance of being involved on the play.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Clowney has a sore shoulder (bruised).  HBC sounding a bit like Parcells.
 

Spurrier told reporters Monday that if Clowney's shoulder doesn't get better soon, the Gamecocks might have to play the Tar Heels without him. The same went for wide receivers Bruce Ellington and Damiere Byrd. All three players sat out the team's first scrimmage Saturday.
Spurrier said Clowney might not play in the season opener because of his bruised shoulder.
 
"We got a bunch of hurt guys that act like they're really hurt so right now, they may not play."
 

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Well the press is starting to catch on. 
 
Clowney unblockable

 

[mascho]

Bump.

North Carolina at South Carolina tomorrow night on ESPN. 6:00 pm start.

 

[DukeSox]

go cocks.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Where is Clowney asks Jesse Palmer...so two of us have noticed.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

He's been on the sideline for a few plays because Spurrier is resting him or something.  UNC has run about 90% of their plays away from him, and when they do pass, they run quick screens and routes where he can't get to the passer.  On one of their few true dropback passers, he blew right through a double team and forced an early throw leading to a fourth down.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Or something? Hands on hips. Can't fucking breath. That's all they're talking about. You watching this game?

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Or something? Hands on hips. Can't fucking breath. That's all they're talking about. You watching this game?

 
Well, at least we know he's going all out.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

25 of 34 plays in the first half.  Spurrier says that wasn't the plan that he just got tired.  Apparently Clowney is partially blaming it on a mystery stomach bug the coach didn't know about.  And now 6-7 plays and 3 minutes into the second half, he needs another breather because he's off the field for the 4th and 11 conversion.
 
I'm not saying he's not a beast, but when the best defensive player in the history of college football decides to get ready for a season, be sure to let me know.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Or something? Hands on hips. Can't fucking breath. That's all they're talking about. You watching this game?

 
Of course I'm watching it.  Spurrier was sitting him on the second series, following about 3 defensive snaps, which is what I was talking about.  At that point in the game, the guy had barely even seen the field and was clearly pissed off about being sidelined by Spurrier.
 
I'm just aggravated by the constant insinuation that Clowney doesn't go all out.  He goes all out every play, and that's why he needs to rest at points in the game, but these morons make it sound like the guy is invisible or not giving it his all.  Drives me crazy.  UNC is doing a good job of keeping the ball away from him, and doubling him when necessary. 

 

[sachmoney]

Does Clowney even have a sack yet?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Does Clowney even have a sack yet?

 
I'll bet Clowney doesn't get 15 sacks this season.  He only had 13 last year, and 4.5 came in one game against Clemson.  He might not even have a tackle today.
 
Of course, that means basically nothing when looking at how he is playing and what kind of an effect he is having on the opposing team's offense.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Yea, there's no way UNC converts that 4th and 11 with Clowney glaring at them from the sidelines.  I'm sure him watching is part of a bigger strategy to confuse the quarterback into thinking Clowney's ghost will make the tackle instead. 
 
Everything I pointed out a month ago upthread is on display tonight, but somehow his form of tired is selective, part of a bigger strategy, or a coaches decision...and not tackling or sacking is the new road to the Heisman.  Like I said, wake me up when.....

 

[sachmoney]

To play the other side (I haven't liked Clowney...stopping in the middle of plays that go away from his side), South Carolina DOES have to visit Georgia next week. I'd probably limit him a bit too against a team that the rest of my team is taking care of business against.

 

[mascho]

And it is 90 degrees in Columbia right now with 80% humidity, so it feels like 96.  I have my reservations about Clowney but I am not reading too much into tonight's performance. 

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Yea, there's no way UNC converts that 4th and 11 with Clowney glaring at them from the sidelines.  I'm sure him watching is part of a bigger strategy to confuse the quarterback into thinking Clowney's ghost will make the tackle instead. 
 
Everything I pointed out a month ago upthread is on display tonight, but somehow his form of tired is selective, part of a bigger strategy, or a coaches decision...and not tackling or sacking is the new road to the Heisman.  Like I said, wake me up when.....

 
Want to venture a reason as to why UNC's outstanding offense has only been able to muster 10 points?  You don't think the fact that they can't use about 25% of the field in their game-plan has anything to do with it?  You don't think the 2-3 guys they have to assign to him every time they try to drop back in a 3-5 step drop affects what's available elsewhere?  You think they continuously choose to run into one side of the offensive line over and over again, even though the rest of the SC defense is loading up that way doesn't hurt their running game?
 
JJ Watt rushed the passer 671 times last season.  You know how many times he got to the quarterback?  24.  That's 3.5%.   Only 4 of his 20.5 sacks came when he beat a double team.  17 of his sacks happened when Houston had the lead, and presumably, the opposing team had mostly abandoned the run so he could just pin his ears back and most of his sacks (I believe 17 or so, IIRC) came against right guards and tackles because he lines up primarily on the left side of the defense, as opposed to the left guard, which is usually the best pass protector for an offense.
 
I love JJ Watt, and I think he's one of, if not, the best defensive player on Earth, but defense is a team game, and getting sacks is a result of a combination of a ton of shit coming together.  If UNC ran their normal offense, and blocked Clowney like a normal DE, he'd probably have 3-4 sacks tonight, and every game after, but when you have one guy that is so much better than the rest of his teammates, you game plan against it.  It's what Belichick does every week in Foxboro.  He eliminates the opposing team's best couple of players and makes the rest of the team beat the Pats.  Tonight, the rest of the team is getting it done, but acting like Clowney is doing nothing and accomplishing nothing in this game is just remedial football observation.