Clippers Thread: Just Be Healthy in April

ElUno20

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Just a place to park clippers specific thoughts. I'm not sure why they're top title contenders. I dont see PG staying healthy and Kawhi's game management is going to be tough to navigate in the West.

If, big if, they can be healthy in April, we'll see.

It'd also be nice if they got anything out of Jerome Robinson this year given they spent a lottery pick on him.
 

benhogan

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Just a place to park clippers specific thoughts. I'm not sure why they're top title contenders. I dont see PG staying healthy and Kawhi's game management is going to be tough to navigate in the West.

If, big if, they can be healthy in April, we'll see.

It'd also be nice if they got anything out of Jerome Robinson this year given they spent a lottery pick on him.
I'll give it a shot, they have:
1. Two All-NBA stars with their egos in check, that play defense, that can shoot and are focused on hoops in Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. Not starring in movies, building a media empire or even the face of any product. No nonsense, just ballplayers.
2. Bigs that don't mind doing the dirty work in Zubac/Trez
3. The reigning 6th man of the year in Lou Williams who can get an isolation bucket at will.
4. Guys that love to play aggressive defense in Pat Beverly/Mo Harkless
5. Role players that can shoot the 3 in Shamet/Green
6. A coach that has done it before and has the respect of NBA players across the league
7. The richest owner in the NBA, that is building a new stadium, where paying extra salary cap taxes will easily be subsidized by winning big. He also hired Jerry West to lend a hand.
8. The GSW have broken up their 4 HOFers and a DPOY lineup.

So a combo of veteran stars, role players, scorers/shooters, defenders, size, quickness, coaching, money, respect with less competition from years past.

Pretty much sums it up. Enjoy the ride!
 

HowBoutDemSox

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To add to #1, they’re also the two stars who you’d want if your goal is to make Lebron’s life a living hell when you’re matched up against him.


 

Sam Ray Not

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Ben Hogan nailed it, imo. Great teams since the Jordan era have been constructed around elite, versatile wings. With the Durant Achilles and LeBron 35, the two most elite and versatile of those in the league are probably Kawhi and PG. Both are nearly flawless basketball players: long and athletic; fantastic defenders; high character around which to build team attitude and culture; both much better shooters and FT shooters than LeBron has ever been. And both exactly the right age to dominate: 28 and 29.

If you want to nitpick, neither is quite the passer LeBron is (or Jordan, or even KD), but they’re both solid passers and high IQ decision-makers. And neither has been a model of durability, though I wouldn’t call either of them a glass jaw either.

With a core of the two most elite wings in the league, constructing the rest of your team is pretty easy, but even beyond them, the Clips’ roster is a great mix of youth, versatility, skills, and toughness: Lou Williams, Beverley, Harrell, Shamet, JaMychal Green, Harkless, Zubac. Absolutely love that group.

Not sure I’d take them over the field, just cos variance with injuries, etc. always favors the 29 over the 1 (the dynastic Warriors say hi). But I’d definitely take them over any other single team, and over the weirdly constructed, slow, potentially defensively disastrous Lakers every day and twice on Sunday.

in related news: the Lakers were smoked this morning by Caris LeVert and the KD/Kyrie-less Nets, and Anthony Davis is already hurt (sprained thumb).
 

benhogan

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I'm probably biased and rooting hard for the Clippers, as is anyone that lives in LA, and hates the Lakers.

I enjoyed watching them down the stretch and in the playoffs. I respect Doc and how can you not love Lou Will? Always liked Trez, just a dog. Basketball Ops have been incredibly clever since breaking up LOB CITY.

I feel the Tobias Harris trade was absolutely brilliant and a very underrated deal. The entire NBA Media Intelligentsia claimed the Clippers were tanking and Philly won that trade, when in actuality the Clippers got better, picked up assets, got out from under a potentially overpriced player and set themselves up for their 2019 Summer of Love.

They have basically hit on every trade over the last 3 seasons, SGA was an excellent pick and I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson, Mann or Kabengele add value this season.
 
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Tony C

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My memory is that "the entire NBA Media Intelligentsia" claimed the opposite of what you say they said -- the Clipper gained hosannas for that trade. I just did a quick google of the espn trade grades and it accords with my memory -- giving the Clippers an A and the 76ers a C-


No way was that an underrated deal -- it was obviously a great trade and everyone saw it as such.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, almost everyone loved the deal for LAC, but more as a tank while waiting for Kawhi. The surprise was that LAC then proceeded to make the playoffs, give GSW a hard time and land Kawhi after that while keeping that playoff core intact.

I think the other surprise was that more people expected Philly to be better with Harris, and also not to lose Butler.
 

benhogan

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My memory is that "the entire NBA Media Intelligentsia" claimed the opposite of what you say they said -- the Clipper gained hosannas for that trade. I just did a quick google of the espn trade grades and it accords with my memory -- giving the Clippers an A and the 76ers a C-


No way was that an underrated deal -- it was obviously a great trade and everyone saw it as such.
Thanks Tony C (and lovegtm). The media immediately got the value part of the equation correct, my memory got it wrong.

Those hosannas for the Clippers were deserved and then some. They have done no wrong for several years.

Credit to Kevin Pelton, he did a fantastic job with the grades at the time. But he didn't even see the Clippers going to the playoffs after it. No one did. It did feel like they would keep their 1st round pick (which they lost to the Celtics). Funny enough, getting rid of Harris didn't hurt them one iota and they played better afterwards. Who had addition by subtraction, beside West/Franks? Really amazing work by the Clippers front office. Then they turned Muscala into Zubac...holy smokes.

BTW I thought it made the 76ers better the day of the trade but then I started looking at Harris's defensive metrics. Yuck, gawd awful. Sixers compounded that bad trade by signing him to a MAX deal (I guess they had no choice?). Sixers can carry him because he'll be surrounded by 4 good defenders in the starting unit with Al/Embiid protecting the rim as wings run past Tobias to the hoop. He won't age well defensively and the Sixers lost a better 3pt shooter in Shamet. The 76ers window was shortened by those deals.
 

Tony C

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Yeah, the other thing to add that was better than expected for the Clippers is that while Shamet was seen as a good get, he further upped his stock once he arrived in L.A. -- again, more credit to the Clips and Jerry West et al. They know their stuff.
 

ElUno20

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I dont disagree with any of the points made, in fact, the few moments I've let myself think about it, I've gotten pretty excited about this roster. It's lacking another playmaker but it really is sound.

My draw back to reality is the assumption of health. And i know my clipps, injuries will cut this squad off at knees (probably literally).
 

benhogan

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I dont disagree with any of the points made, in fact, the few moments I've let myself think about it, I've gotten pretty excited about this roster. It's lacking another playmaker but it really is sound.

My draw back to reality is the assumption of health. And i know my clipps, injuries will cut this squad off at knees (probably literally).
Last night worked out about as well as it could for the Clips. Plugging Kawhi and Harkless into last year's scrappy bunch appeared seamless. While only 1 game, it sets the tone and replacing PatPat eventually with PG is going to be a rocket boost. The Clips are deep enough to withstand injuries/load mgmt in season and should take their time with PG. Don't really see these guys taking nights off Trez, Beverly, Lou Will, Hark, Green are grinders and they have enough youngsters (Zubac, Shamet) that need to prove themselves night in, night out. I'd be surprised if we see these guys let down.
 

lovegtm

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I dont disagree with any of the points made, in fact, the few moments I've let myself think about it, I've gotten pretty excited about this roster. It's lacking another playmaker but it really is sound.

My draw back to reality is the assumption of health. And i know my clipps, injuries will cut this squad off at knees (probably literally).
LouWill+Kawhi are both so good at playmaking that I think they're fine if those guys are healthy. And then getting PG back gives some redundancy. They could be really good.
 

ElUno20

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I completed underestimated the obvious, the only thing he's really cited, Kawhi came here to be with his family. His family will be at every game. Load will be managed on the road.
 

lovegtm

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I completed underestimated the obvious, the only thing he's really cited, Kawhi came here to be with his family. His family will be at every game. Load will be managed on the road.
Yeah, with the caveat that ofc players are free to choose where they go, I cut Kawhi a ton of slack for going to LA when he talked about how much it meant to him to have his family watch him play. I'm glad he gets the opportunity to do that, and I really admire how carefully he planned out his situation this summer.
 

Kliq

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Watching last night's game, I'm so impressed with Kawhi's development as an offensive player. Coming into the NBA he was seen as a great athlete/defender that was a really good rebounder for his size. Slowly in San Antonio he became more of an offensive threat, but I can't recall a player with such limited offensive skills coming into the NBA turning into such a complete scorer. He is like a bigger, more athletic Paul Pierce or an unselfish, more athletic Carmelo at this point. He can get basically any shot on the floor he wants, and he has such a great touch on that 10-foot turnaround, it is unstoppable.
 

lovegtm

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Watching last night's game, I'm so impressed with Kawhi's development as an offensive player. Coming into the NBA he was seen as a great athlete/defender that was a really good rebounder for his size. Slowly in San Antonio he became more of an offensive threat, but I can't recall a player with such limited offensive skills coming into the NBA turning into such a complete scorer. He is like a bigger, more athletic Paul Pierce or an unselfish, more athletic Carmelo at this point. He can get basically any shot on the floor he wants, and he has such a great touch on that 10-foot turnaround, it is unstoppable.
He also has continually and gradually improved his passing.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Clips are still my title pick if they can stay healthy, but they're closer to the Lakeshow and Bucks than I thought (I'd probably rate them all around a 25-30% shot at this point, with another 10-25% for the field). And isn't 24 games into the season with the #6 net rating in the league an odd time for a victory lap?
 

lovegtm

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Clips are still my title pick if they can stay healthy, but they're closer to the Lakeshow and Bucks than I thought (I'd probably rate them all around a 25-30% shot at this point, with another 10-25% for the field). And isn't 24 games into the season with the #6 net rating in the league an odd time for a victory lap?
Yeah, the main thing they have going for them is that they match up really well with both LAL and MIL. Any minor injury trouble or shooting slump though, and it's anyone's game. I don't think they're head and shoulders above anyone really (they'd be favorites against Boston, for example, but they can't exploit Boston's center situation).
 

soxhop411

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Does Doc get fired if the clippers have another horrific post season performance?

They seem to always come up small in the playoffs.
 

TripleOT

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LouWill missing a crunch time FT. PG-13 blowing an easy crunch time layup. Kawhi taking a very tough shot for the win, instead of driving the ball and putting the pressure on the defense and refs
.
Marcus Morris with a huge three to take the lead with one seconds left in OT, but they left too much time for Luka.
 

soxhop411

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“@AndrewGreif: Doc Rivers: ”Bottom line the last play didn’t lose the game for us, it was our entire play from the second quarter on.“”
View: https://twitter.com/AndrewGreif/status/1297669616307601408


“@jovanbuha: Doc Rivers: “I thought we were very emotionally weak tonight, to be honest.””
View: https://twitter.com/jovanbuha/status/1297668866416361472


Hey Doc! You are the coach which means the buck stops with you. So quit making excuses. Your subbing was subpar for like the 8 game in a row. And honestly his playoff coaching with the clippers has been shit. They are too talented to have never made it far in the playoffs. And I would fire him if they don’t get past this round. Good regular season coach but his playoff performance since becoming clippers coach has been terrible.
 

ElUno20

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The mavericks cannot play defense. This is a fact. Paul George just needs to put his head down and lay the ball up 75 times like lou William.
 

The Social Chair

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Trading Galo, SGA & 5 1sts & 2 swaps for Paul George has a lot of Celtics/Nets potential if Kawhi bails after next season.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Very true, and there's also the possibility that living at home turns out to be less fun in practice than in theory.
Yeah, I've learned to put more or less zero stock in what a player or his team says when he joins a new team. It's always "I couldn't pass up the chance to go back to my home city," or "I couldn't pass up the chance to play with [Player X]" or "I love the off-court opportunities here" etc. Heck, LeBron has said each one of those things each time he's switched teams. And people were theorizing that Durant wouldn't leave GS because of his Silicon Valley investments, etc.

This is particularly true for Kawhi who has clearly taken a rather idiosyncratic approach to his future plans.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, I've learned to put more or less zero stock in what a player or his team says when he joins a new team. It's always "I couldn't pass up the chance to go back to my home city," or "I couldn't pass up the chance to play with [Player X]" or "I love the off-court opportunities here" etc. Heck, LeBron has said each one of those things each time he's switched teams. And people were theorizing that Durant wouldn't leave GS because of his Silicon Valley investments, etc.

This is particularly true for Kawhi who has clearly taken a rather idiosyncratic approach to his future plans.
I think they generally believe it at the time, but plans and feelings change.
 

soxhop411

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Doc needs to be fired. He makes the same fucking mistakes GAME AFTER GAME. Has yet to learn from them.
 

ElUno20

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Not happening only if because there is no one better out there.
I dont think people are recognizing the magnitude of this collapse. This would all but guarantee Kawhi leaving in a year. He's coaching for his job Tuesday
 

ElUno20

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So if they win next year he walks?
Are you missing the part where this team just choked 2 opportunities to get to the conference finals up massive amounts late in a close out game?

This isnt a title team.
 

bosockboy

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Are you missing the part where this team just choked 2 opportunities to get to the conference finals up massive amounts late in a close out game?

This isnt a title team.
First they haven’t lost yet. If they do they have another season to tweak pieces and win one.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I wasn’t able to watch the game today, what’s the thinking behind putting the lion's share of the blame on Doc rather than the players?