Cleveland Indians not changing their name until at least 2022

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Jun 26, 2006
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My favorite suggestion so far has been the Cleveland Clinicians.

A doctor as a mascot would be pretty original. Celebrate front-line health care workers, etc. I dunno. Not crazy, and kind of a badass name, really.
 

Sandwich Pick

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The Blackhawks were named after a Chief and a WWI battalion named after said Chief. I don't understand why that would need to change.
 

Captaincoop

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The whole counterargument to these name changes is the loss of history in the game. They should absolutely go with Spiders to eliminate that issue. This one is easy.
 

joe dokes

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If they wanted to go with the singular ( Jazz, Heat, Magic, Thunder, Avalanche), how about RiverFire?
 

Reggie's Racquet

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How about the Cleveland Cleavers? They could still sell chop merchandise. They could rename the cheerleading squad The Cleavage. We could trade them our mascot Wally for Shane Bieber.
 

Leather

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The Blackhawks were named after a Chief and a WWI battalion named after said Chief. I don't understand why that would need to change.
The WWI connection is pretty irrelevant if the underlying use is still unacceptable, especially because there is absolutely no reference to it in team’s logos or branding. It sure smacks of a post hoc, bad faith, rationalization. Would the Indians name be ok if someone produced evidence that the team was named after a Civil War brigade with that nickname?

In any case, as stated above, there’s a difference between the name “Indians,” which in and of itself is racist, and names that reflect specific tribes or (for lack of a better term) occupations like “Brave” or “Warrior.” Whether there is *enough* of a difference is a question that should be asked, and at a minimum those teams should take steps to eliminate the racist stereotypes that they allowed to enter their team branding. The tomahawk chop is the obvious example, but I think the Blackhawks need to stop using their primary logo, which reduces the tribal reference to a stereotype.
 

Preacher

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The WWI connection is pretty irrelevant if the underlying use is still unacceptable, especially because there is absolutely no reference to it in team’s logos or branding. It sure smacks of a post hoc, bad faith, rationalization. Would the Indians name be ok if someone produced evidence that the team was named after a Civil War brigade with that nickname?

In any case, as stated above, there’s a difference between the name “Indians,” which in and of itself is racist, and names that reflect specific tribes or (for lack of a better term) occupations like “Brave” or “Warrior.” Whether there is *enough* of a difference is a question that should be asked, and at a minimum those teams should take steps to eliminate the racist stereotypes that they allowed to enter their team branding. The tomahawk chop is the obvious example, but I think the Blackhawks need to stop using their primary logo, which reduces the tribal reference to a stereotype.
That logo is at least as bad as the old WFT logo, if not worse. I always wondered if people confused the team name Blackhawks with an actual tribe and not for Chief Black Hawk because I never understood why the UH-60 is called a Black Hawk helicopter but all the other helicopter names used by the Army are tribe names.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/09/braves-remove-foam-tomahawks-from-stadium/
The Braves are quietly phasing out the “official” trappings of endorsing the “Chop”...Easier to do when there’s no actual fans - let’s see what happens now. Cleveland is a big domino to fall.

I think Atlanta, unfortunately, will experience a lot more pushback from their customers about any aspect of “changing their traditions” than Washington and Edmonton football or Cleveland baseball.
I'm kind of surprised the tomahawk is still on the Braves uniform. It's not in the same ballpark of offensive as Chief Wahoo but distancing from it probably is the smart move in the current climate. It's been part of the front of the uniform logo since the late 80s but was otherwise just on the Boston-Milwaukee era uniforms from 46-62. They've gone through many uniform (and color) revisions over the years so it's not like they're dealing with iconic century plus old uniform styling here either.
 

SoxJox

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Wiki page for Cleveland includes some historical references that may be appropriate.

Cleveland is designated as a "Gamma" global city by the Globalization and World Cities Research Network, so maybe the Cleveland Gammas.

Cleveland is also known as the Forest City (although most of the forested areas are long gone). So perhaps the Cleveland Foresters.

Cleveland was founded in 1796 near the mouth of the Cuyahoga River by General Moses Cleaveland, so maybe the Cleveland Generals.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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That logo is at least as bad as the old WFT logo, if not worse. I always wondered if people confused the team name Blackhawks with an actual tribe and not for Chief Black Hawk because I never understood why the UH-60 is called a Black Hawk helicopter but all the other helicopter names used by the Army are tribe names.
Sure. But the WFT logo wasnt nearly as much of an issue as calling the team The Redskins. If they were named The Washington Conoy, the name would probably still exist. There was no caricature features of the logo, unlike Chief Wahoo. The skin was probably too dark to try to align with "redskin", but again, the logo wasnt the issue.
 

Leather

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That logo is at least as bad as the old WFT logo, if not worse. I always wondered if people confused the team name Blackhawks with an actual tribe and not for Chief Black Hawk because I never understood why the UH-60 is called a Black Hawk helicopter but all the other helicopter names used by the Army are tribe names.
To add added insult, it doesn’t appear that Chief Black Hawk (or Sauk tribe members, generally) looked at all like the logo. The logo is basically a Native American Man Stereotypes Greatest Hits: long hair, face paint, multicolored feathers. If anything, it more closely resembles a member of the Sioux tribe.

This is a contemporaneous portrait of Black Hawk that’s stored in the Smithsonian.
 

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Leather

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Sure. But the WFT logo wasnt nearly as much of an issue as calling the team The Redskins. If they were named The Washington Conoy, the name would probably still exist. There was no caricature features of the logo, unlike Chief Wahoo. The skin was probably too dark to try to align with "redskin", but again, the logo wasnt the issue.
The logo was also offensive because it implied, basically, “they all look the same,” or “This is what a Native American looks like,” which isn’t true in many, many, cases.
 

nvalvo

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The Spiders would be so great. Just imagine all the fun you could have with it.

Give the team's brand a kind of Tim Burton-y cute-goth aesthetic. Downtown Cleveland at night, with its handful of beautiful art deco skyscrapers, has a very Gotham city/comic book vibe. I have seen with my own eyes a swarm of bats circling the Terminal Tower, probably feasting on flying insects drawn to the lights. Spooky. Imagine the tie-ins with Halloween when the Spiders played in October.

Commission some fun, child-friendly ugly-cute foam spider costumes for a mascot race (*announcer voice* Daddy Longlegs wins!). Play the creepy music from Arachnophobia when the closer comes in. Dance off in the stands to the Monster Mash in between innings. Ballpark pub called the Trapdoor. "Spider Silk" cotton candy for the kids.

Web gems! Spiderman catches! When a Spiders player draws a walk, an animation on the Jumbotron shows a cartoon-y eight-eyed spider and the text "Good Eyes."



Speaking of Spiderman, you could do Marvel Comics nights at the park, kind of like the Star Wars nights a bunch of teams do. You could imagine a section of super fans wearing (either licensed or unsanctioned by the team) Spiderman costumes.

 

barbed wire Bob

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The Cleavers. Nice violent imagery to boot.

In some seriousness, I wonder if names that are acceptable to use such as "warrior" or "brave" would be more acceptable? In the posted photo above of the protest in Cleveland, one of the signs says "people not mascots," so I wonder if just collecting a massive swathe of people based on a very broad geographical location is what the issue is. The "New York Europeans" might have imagery issues just like any "Braves" team would, smelting a wide variety of cultures and histories down into a single catch-all term.

It's a difficult question, really, because at first I thought to myself I wouldn't have an issue with a local high school naming themselves after the Mohawk Nation, given there is a specific cultural identity and past that you might be trying to honor, but then do we really do that in any other case? I guess the Canucks? All the other examples I can think off the top of my head usually deal with indigenous peoples.
The Fighting Irish comes to mind. Other examples could be Trojans and Spartans. Jayhawk is considered nick-name for a native born Kansan but the term also was used for guerrilla bands during the Kansas border war. Other state nick names that I can think of are Buckeyes and Hoosiers.
 
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Ford Frick's Asterisk

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Paul Dolan says the team will stay the Indians through 2021 at least, I changed the thread title.

View: https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/1338558622381596673?s=20
And this is why yesterday's announcement was so dumb. They've riled everyone up again and gotten bad press to simply confirm what we already knew. This is exactly what everyone who's been paying attention to the Indians assumed the process will be for months now.

But hey, let's get in another round of people thinking mistake by the lake and burning river jokes are fresh and funny.
 

barbed wire Bob

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And this is why yesterday's announcement was so dumb. They've riled everyone up again and gotten bad press to simply confirm what we already knew. This is exactly what everyone who's been paying attention to the Indians assumed the process will be for months now.

But hey, let's get in another round of people thinking mistake by the lake and burning river jokes are fresh and funny.
The classics never go out of style.
 

Ale Xander

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Would Cleveland Cuyahogas be racist, too? If not, that's the name I'd want. Original and unique.
 

Ale Xander

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Uhm dude

Kirk Douglas (born Issur Danielovitch; December 9, 1916 – February 5, 2020)
Whoops. I swore I saw some article recently where his birthday was celebrated. Maybe that was December 2019
 

brs3

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I'd love if they went with something new and different. Rockers or Rocks is too close to Rockies, but Cleveland Jams would work.
 

staz

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And this is why yesterday's announcement was so dumb. They've riled everyone up again and gotten bad press to simply confirm what we already knew. This is exactly what everyone who's been paying attention to the Indians assumed the process will be for months now.

But hey, let's get in another round of people thinking mistake by the lake and burning river jokes are fresh and funny.
It wasn't an announcement, it was a NYT story. And a burning river, by definition, is funny for eternity.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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I’m voting for the Cleveland Kings

I mean it’s what I think of when I think of Cleveland

37062
 

shaggydog2000

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My favorite suggestion so far has been the Cleveland Clinicians.

A doctor as a mascot would be pretty original. Celebrate front-line health care workers, etc. I dunno. Not crazy, and kind of a badass name, really.
Especially if they make the doctor mascot Native American. I don't think people would have a problem with that if done tastefully. Like not Chief Wahoo with a lab coat.
 

Ale Xander

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Oh, and is Notre Dame next? Or are racist names for caucasians ok? (rhetorical)
 

Ale Xander

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Is your point that caucasians are the real victims? Or that minorities should just suck it up and accept derogatory nicknames because addressing it makes you uncomfortable?
Neither. My point is that all racist names are bad and all should be eradicated.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Why even bother to announce this if they aren’t going to change it until 2022?

If the name is racist and so offensive then it should be removed immediately right?

If it’s not that offensive and you can leave it the same it’s been for the past 60 plus years for another year, why bother changing it at all?
 

glennhoffmania

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Are you guys fucking for real?

We started calling "Indians", "Native Americans" a long time ago. The term "Indian" itself is derogatory. Chief Wahoo is derogatory.

While the tomahawk bullshit needs to go, there is nothing inherently negative about Braves, Warriors, Blackhawks etc. A warrior is a brave fighter. No different than a Bezerker, and probably less offensive. Braves? Blackhawks? We aren't creating caricatures of those people like the Indians were doing. You know you're allowed to mention other cultures without it being offensive, yeah?

The reason the Mass flag needed to change was because of the racist connotations associated with it. We don't need to whitewash everything.
I have to say that I agree with this. Since when is naming a team, or anything for that matter, after something else automatically racist? The chief needs to go, as do the tomahawks. But it doesn't make sense that a team would choose a name based on mocking a culture. If anything isn't it flattering as long as it's done respectfully?
 

nighthob

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I vote for the Cleveland Hunters since the Rockies would object to the Cleveland Rocks. As an added bonus we could refer to their prospects as All the Young Dudes.