Not to mention that there's been no indication that the problem is UCL related at all. Elbow inflammation may have nothing to do with any ligaments, nor is it necessarily something that can be fixed by surgery either now or in the future.
Chris Sale to IL with elbow inflammation
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Arrieta is going to have season-ending surgery for bone spurs in his elbow. I don't know if his initial symptom was inflammation, but I guess it could have been. Isn't that what Eovaldi had also? Anyway, that surgery has a far shorter recovery period than Tommy John, so that's something to hope for, I guess.
Just a hunch, but I'm thinking surgery is still a possibility......shut him down for 6 weeks, let the inflammation subside, and then re-evaluate the damage. Assuming 12-15 months rehab, means that surgery the third week of August or the first week of October still means getting ready for 2021 either way. No reason to rush if its not obviously needed and maybe the PRP injection offers some improvement. However, waiting until spring training before opting for surgery could then impact the start of the 2021 season
I mean, it's a description of an injured elbow, right? I think we're all on the same page with that.
Or in 6 weeks he feels good and can get ramped up in time for some hi-lev relief in the world series.
Or wingack is right and it's surgery next year.
Or his elbow is just kinda fucked and there's no surgical fix.
I think that covers it.
I'll say it once again: Anderson Espinoza. The former minor league phenom has yet to throw a pitch in anger since undergoing TJ surgery well over 2 years ago. There is no "just take care of things once and for all" when it comes to elbow surgery. Most times it works; sometimes it doesn't.
Opting for the conservative course now is the wise move. 6 weeks is nothing if surgery ends up being necessary. Yes, there is a nightmare scenario where Sale feels healthy enough to pitch in 2020 and then blows out his elbow mid-season. But there is also the nightmare scenario that he is never the same after the surgery, regardless of the timeframe.
Dr. Andrews is probably the most knowledgeable person in the world regarding injuries to pitcher's elbows so I would take his advice and see him again in 6 weeks.
Don't worry big guy. You will still have ample opportunities to say you were right about Sale.
Even if he isn't undergoing career-ending surgery that renders his extension an anchor around the necks of the ballclub, he will inevitably have a bad outing and you can tell everyone how you told them so!
At some point, cooler heads will get him to focus on the quality of life issues. Puts it all in perspective.
It's not at all straightforward when it comes to this stuff but the short version is - surgery isn't absolutely necessary but it's certainly not off the table altogether. The PRP is a good idea from a scientific standpoint but the literature doesn't show a whole lot of difference.
I might be on the 98.5 Hardcore Baseball podcast later this week discussing this, I'll post a link if I do
I might be on the 98.5 Hardcore Baseball podcast later this week discussing this, I'll post a link if I do
Trying to find one bright side to this story and this season .... If this had happened during a pennant race, this board would have gone nuclear.
Should be really interesting how Dombrowski plays it this winter. Sale, Eovaldi, and to some extent Price could all go down for long stretches at any point. ERod’s never had a fully healthy season before this one. Johnson, Velazquez and Wright all seem like less viable 4/5 starters than they did a year ago. He needs innings.
For the people who think the Sox signed a tainted Chris Sale.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bradford/chris-sale-injury-few-things-consider
Possible. But I don’t envision a lot of lucrative offers thrown his way. 8 million with a chance to rebuild his resume while we get badly needed innings seems like a win for both sides.
Yeah, but he must have known it was going to get injured, hence why he signed the contract.
Masahiro Tanaka had a slight UCL tear in 2014, waited out the pain, rehabbed it, and he's been fine since. Sale's motion is maybe more likely to turn a slight tear into a full one, but at this point we don't even know if there is a tear at all. If it's something else, then there is no reason he won't be fine once whatever body part it is stops barking. But from what little I know, we are talking about parts of the body that are just slow to heal.
I guess there isn't much hope of luring Cole to Boston? That would solve a lot of problems, but there's no reason to believe he would be interested, other than maybe he likes Cora.
He was so tricky about the injury he made the injury he knew he had not show up on MRI.Yeah, but he must have known it was going to get injured, hence why he signed the contract.
I did not realize that Sale had thrown 4th most pitchessince 2013
Put enough zeros on the offer, and I'm sure he'd be very interested. The only thing that can stop the Sox from going after Cole is their budget (whatever it may end up being).
Cole to Boston seems slim to me. We’d have too much money tied up in the rotation, as noted above, and I think as a SoCal guy he’ll sign with the the Dodgers, who have Hill and Ryu coming off the books.
Plus, I still doggedly cling to my theory that the Sox have an uphill battle luring starters in free agency. They play in the most offensive-oriented park of the major market teams, and so likely have to overpay over the Dodgers and Yankees or more, who are almost sure to be in on anyone the Sox are in on. The system should be built for Beckett- and Sale-style trades.
Didn't the Red Sox convince Schilling to come to Boston by disproving the notion that Fenway was purely a hitters' park and that Schilling's stuff wouldn't play as well there? I realize that was before the Launch Angle Revolution, but isn't it a bit extreme to say it's most offensive-oriented given some of the other bandboxes that are still being used or new-fangled ones like Yankee Stadium?
From BRef, over 100 favors hitters, under 100 favors pitching...
Multi-year park factor for Fenway Park: batting 106, pitching 105
Multi-year park factor for Yankee Stadium: batting 98, pitching 97
Fenway is overwhelmingly more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium, at least over the last three years.
The only parks more hitter-friendly than Fenway...
Coors Field: batting 120, pitching 120
Ballpark at Arlington: batting 110, pitching 111
Next closest to Fenway is Nationals Park (batting 105, pitching 105).
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The Angels are a threat to sign Cole too. They desperately need a frontline starter and have money to spend.
The Dodgers and Yankees both have stopped signing big free agent deals, it seems to be part of their current philosophy in both cases (NY has copied LA's organizational building philosophy quite a bit the last few years, depth over high-priced stars). Of course that could change at any moment, but I'd agree that the Angels are the frontrunners for Cole.
Don't leave the Padres out of the conversation. They're willing to spend, and a young veteran ace would be a perfect fit
Was trading for Stanton's $250 plus million contract factored into this philosophy?
It's true, we have repeatedly acquired aces by trade, shortly before free agency. Price is one exception (Schilling is not, he was acquired by trade, albeit only after waiving his NTC). Like the Celtics, they're competing for guys who are from decidedly non-northeastern places and can't be expected to prefer Boston. Obviously winning has given the Sox a card to play, and the intensity is appealing to some guys (same for Celtics). But if there's a team in Florida, Texas or California with more money, it's an uphill battle, and the pitching environment doesn't help.
They do seem to believe in spending on starting pitching, and you're swapping out Porcello's $20m for Cole's $30 or whatever so it's not that big a difference to what they are already doing. I doubt Cole says yes but I don't think the Sox will bow out without a try.
Obviously the outlier but it's a $22M AAV and also not a FA deal, it was an odd situation in which NY was pushing hard for Ohtani but got rejected and then Stanton kind of fell in their lap, too 'cheap' (the AAV) to pass up but as with most larger deals in recent years, the team probably regrets it and there's still a long way to go.
The big FAs are worth more to other teams than they are to teams who are already very deep like LA and NY, as we've seen demonstrated this past season (both with Harper/Machado and with the depth of LAD/NYY). Try to get overlooked gems with lots of team control (Muncy, Urshela), relatively cheap FAs (Turner, LeMahieu) and build as much as you can with your own system.
Cole will be 36 before the 2020 season starts. Does he have a fountain of youth or something else going on.
Isn't this somewhat deceiving though? I always thought that when it comes to park factors Fenway is extremely double friendly (1.4) but suppresses home runs (.88)?
Which free agent starting pitchers have refused to sign in Boston? Price signed here, and he was the premier pitching FA that offseason. Lackey signed here as well, and he was a premium free agent that year. Lester turned Boston down, but there was some history with both Boston and Theo that no doubt influenced his decision. Off the top of my head, there's Mike Mussina, but that's many moons ago.
It's hard to know for certain. Because the Sox were able to acquire quality starting pitching via trade, they were not often bidding for the top free agent pitchers other than those noted above. And they've had good luck keeping their prospective free agent pitchers (Price opted in, Eovaldi resigned, Sale extended, Beckett and Schilling extended their stays here).
It's hard to know for certain. Because the Sox were able to acquire quality starting pitching via trade, they were not often bidding for the top free agent pitchers other than those noted above. And they've had good luck keeping their prospective free agent pitchers (Price opted in, Eovaldi resigned, Sale extended, Beckett and Schilling extended their stays here).
View: https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/1163894946425987074
From the man himself, no tears in his elbow.
From the man himself, no tears in his elbow.
Not only did Lackey sign here, he approached Boston when he wasn't even really on their radar and the deal got done fast. I believe they also signed Matt Clement and Ryan Dempster as free agents, didn't they? And Bartolo Colón, though that didn't end well when he quit on the team and went home for the rest of the season.
Clement (and David Wells same winter) and Dempster weren't exactly top-flight free agents though. Neither was Colon.
I don't buy the "pitchers don't want to come to Boston" argument, but I understood it to mean elite free agent pitchers, not guys that are less in demand who are arguably happy to take whatever their best offer is regardless of location.
Wasn't Clement one of the top free agents that year? I'll cede Dempter and the Quitter.
Price was the biggest name free agent they'd signed in some time but Lackey was up there too.
For what it’s worth, I do recall Price having to be convinced to come here despite the fact the Boston offered the most money - he was heading to St. Louis, as I recall.
EDIT: Found the article I was recalling.
EDIT: Found the article I was recalling.
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