Chris Sale to IL with elbow inflammation

nvalvo

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*sigh*

Well, depending on what's actually wrong, that could explain some things.
 

LesterFan

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Shut him down and get him right for next season. The rotation is a complete mess. Eduardo, Porcello, Johnson, Eovaldi?, ??
 

Harry Hooper

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Unfortunately, starting him once every 8 or 9 days next year doesn't seem feasible.
 

canderson

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Least surprising news of the season.

Even be eased into things he can’t make it to September. Brutal.
 

DeadlySplitter

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You never want James Andrews in a sentence with your pitcher.

if Sale is compromised for 2020, a retooling (i.e. trading Mookie to replenish the farm) starts to make a lot more sense.
 

Ale Xander

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Of course he is. Sale finally was starting to look better and he makes his annual August trip to the IL. This season can’t end soon enough.
I prefer the season ending in October than September. Next man up. Evoo and Big Johnson will have to pick up the slack
 

johnmd20

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You never want James Andrews in a sentence with your pitcher.

if Sale is compromised for 2020, a retooling (i.e. trading Mookie to replenish the farm) starts to make a lot more sense.
That is the absolute truth. Ouch. Nightmare continues.

The Sox used it ALL up last year, on their utterly dominating season, from the regular season to the absolutely incredible post season run through 100 win teams like they weren't even there.
 

BigSoxFan

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Obligatory 5/145 comment...

But, man, the guy simply can’t stay healthy. Every year it’s something. I really don’t know what else they can do.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
 

Reverend

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
Wait—how would the pizza help if his problem is he’s a head case?

What kind of toppings are we talking about here?
 

Average Reds

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
I realize that people are treating your comment with the precise amount of respect it deserves, but how, exactly, does one void a valid contract in the absence of anything that would allow termination? Because using "our head of baseball operations made a bad decision" as justification for voiding a contract seems like a recipe for massive punitive damages whe you inevitably lose the resulting lawsuit.

I'd also be interested in hearing more about how eating poorly is how pitchers promote longevity.

Or are you just game threading and/or shitposting?
 

judyb

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
Are you Steven Wright? Not the knuckleball pitcher, the belly-itcher.
 

Marciano490

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I realize that people are treating your comment with the precise amount of respect it deserves, but how, exactly, does one void a valid contract in the absence of anything that would allow termination?

I'd also be interested in hearing more about how eating poorly is how pitchers promote longevity.

Or are you just game threading?
If he didn’t fulfill the pizza eating clause, then I guess they could void it for non-performance.

Unless, I guess he ate a bunch of ice cream or drank gallons of milk to bulk up instead, in which case voiding would be more difficult. You know, legally.
 

Ale Xander

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I realize that people are treating your comment wih the respect is deserves, but how, exactly, does one void a valid contract in the absence of anything that would allow termination?

Or are you just game threading?
He probably means trade him and eat some of the money so you can use the space under the luxury tax to sign a more durable pitcher.

He's right that the extension is a fireable offense especially for someone experienced. Absolutely no reason to extend him and plenty of reason not to.

This just proves once again that Audi drivers are not to be trusted.

Hopefully they can get decent value for him or he has a healthy and successful 2020-2024

The machado k still at least bring good memory.

He's just too fragile. Height/weight ratio is simply too high. Randy was an exception.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
Why are the Sox run by Dave Dombrowski and not MTG? How is this allowed to happen?

Imagine the team the Sox could field if they just had GM that ruled with an iron fist, found ways to void all terrible contracts, enforced dietary clauses and weren't afraid to stand up to those awful, thieving agents!

Finally, I agree that Sale's mental fragility is key reason why he is having arm problems. Frankly, if he is incapable of using mind over matter to continue competing, he has no business earning his copious pay, let alone being on an MLB roster. Now his career is completely cooked while he collects his paycheck, sitting around not eating pizza and meanwhile Dombrowski will somehow get another deal from the Sox or some other loser organization.
 

brandonchristensen

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No surprise, but it always lines up with when he’s pitching well and teasing us.

Classic Sale.

The extension is officially a joke.
 

Salem's Lot

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if Sale is compromised for 2020, a retooling (i.e. trading Mookie to replenish the farm) starts to make a lot more sense.
There have been quite a few posts advocating trading Betts. I just can’t see a team trading the kind of elite prospects that would justify trading Betts instead of taking a chance at winning with him in 2020. I just don’t think that there is a team out there that would trade top prospects for one year of Mookie Betts.
 

BroodsSexton

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I realize that people are treating your comment with the precise amount of respect it deserves, but how, exactly, does one void a valid contract in the absence of anything that would allow termination? Because using "our head of baseball operations made a bad decision" as justification for voiding a contract seems like a recipe for massive punitive damages whe you inevitably lose the resulting lawsuit.

I'd also be interested in hearing more about how eating poorly is how pitchers promote longevity.

Or are you just game threading and/or shitposting?
Punitive damages for breaching a contract? Tell me more. Or does that only happen if you eat lots of pizza?
 

mauf

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
Unless you have a theory as to why Sale’s guaranteed contract might be voidable at the FO’s election, this post doesn’t advance the conversation.
 

jon abbey

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There have been quite a few posts advocating trading Betts. I just can’t see a team trading the kind of elite prospects that would justify trading Betts instead of taking a chance at winning with him in 2020. I just don’t think that there is a team out there that would trade top prospects for one year of Mookie Betts.
The Cardinals gave up quite a bit of talent for Paul Goldschmidt last winter in the same situation, and Mookie is certainly a better all-around player.
 
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There have been quite a few posts advocating trading Betts. I just can’t see a team trading the kind of elite prospects that would justify trading Betts instead of taking a chance at winning with him in 2020. I just don’t think that there is a team out there that would trade top prospects for one year of Mookie Betts.
Define top prospects, because I think Mookie's return in a trade would be quite hefty. The Dodgers gave up a top 100 prospect and 4 other pieces last year for a half season of Machado because the O's valued quantity of quality. Why wouldn't Mookie's return be at least two top prospects? Someone also mentioned the Goldschmidt trade earlier as an example. Their are always buyers for transcendent talent. Although I would much rather have him setting the table for Devers and X for years to come.
 

twibnotes

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Define top prospects, because I think Mookie's return in a trade would be quite hefty. The Dodgers gave up a top 100 prospect and 4 other pieces last year for a half season of Machado because the O's valued quantity of quality. Why wouldn't Mookie's return be at least two top prospects? Someone also mentioned the Goldschmidt trade earlier as an example. Their are always buyers for transcendent talent. Although I would much rather have him setting the table for Devers and X for years to come.
Any Mookie trade better include a player or two who can help us right away AND some awesome prospects.

I would never move him for strictly prospects
 

BaseballJones

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At this point I just don’t care about the 2019 season. But man if his 2020 season is in jeopardy that would suuuuuuuuck.
 

Byrdbrain

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Void the contract. Get out from under it even if it means burning the bridge with he and his agent. Thanks for the title but fuck off, you fragile headcase.

Whatever it takes, get him off the books. Dombrowski shouldn't be brought back because of that stupid deal alone. Sale is cooked. Should have eaten more pizza and bulked up like pretty much every power pitcher that lasted for more than a handful of seasons did.

Simply awful and borderline criminal for that deal to be offered, never mind confirmed.
You got a bunch of crap for your post last week saying Bannister couldn’t be a good coach because he wasn’t a good player but this post makes that look like it was well thought out.
 

chawson

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This is a bad outcome, though the extension still makes sense. It’s nearly impossible to lure a quality starting pitcher to Boston via free agency, let alone one who we know can handle the market. Add that to the scarcity of available players due to the growing trend of team’s extending young players early and there’s a scarcity of pitching.

If he didn’t re-up Sale, he’d be facing a 2020 rotation of Price/Eovaldi/Rodriguez/______/______. It was clear last year that Porcello wasn’t worth re-signing. Dombrowski probably knows he doesn’t have a shot at Cole, a SoCal guy, this winter, so his options for 2020 were:

1) Extend Sale
2) Play out 2019 and risk Sale asking for >$200m
3) Let Sale walk and hope you’re the high bidder for Wheeler or Bumgarner for roughly Sale money (5/$125)
4) Let Sale walk and be the high bidder for a risky 3/4 starter like Hamels, Gibson, Keuchel, and/or Odorizzi at around 3-4 years and $45-60m
5) Trade a position player for a young starter last winter without going over the tax limit, his assets being a) five years of Devers, b) two years of Betts (at around $50m), c) four years of Benintendi, d) two years of Bradley, or e) Michael Chavis, who had no value and was seen as a toxic asset

What would you have done?
 

mauidano

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At this point I just don’t care about the 2019 season. But man if his 2020 season is in jeopardy that would suuuuuuuuck.
This is where I am at. Enough of the contract talk. It's a guaranteed deal. What's most important is next season. There is very little to play for in 2019. If you shut him down, I'm cool with it too.

That being said, Sale is fiery competitor. This is what he does so I would imagine if he can pitch again this season he will.
 

Pitt the Elder

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There's some high quality evidenced-based pizza-related analysis going on in this thread. Don't we need to know the extent of the injury first before firing Dombrowski and exercising the neener-neener clause of Sale's contact?
 

Harry Hooper

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Oh boy. Any time Andrews gets involved it isn’t good. Guess doing what they did in spring training didn’t help.
Beckett, Lester, Buchholz? I seem to recall one pitcher getting a consult with Dr. Andrews that was almost prophylactic, but generally you're correct.
 

geoduck no quahog

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TJ surgery has him healthy around December 2020 and good for Spring Training. The Red Sox need to act if that’s the diagnosis and not try to luck out with alternative measures. Gambling and delay might bleed into the 2021 season.
 

chawson

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The Cardinals gave up quite a bit of talent for Paul Goldschmidt last winter in the same situation, and Mookie is certainly a better all-around player.
The Cardinals themselves are a decent fit for a Mookie or Beni trade. They’re losing Ozuna this winter and may still be trying to get out from under Fowler’s contract, which the Sox could absorb if it gets them a better return. Flaherty’s obviously the prize there, but maybe Carlos Martinez is a good gamble.
 

lexrageorge

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TJ surgery has him healthy around December 2020 and good for Spring Training. The Red Sox need to act if that’s the diagnosis and not try to luck out with alternative measures. Gambling and delay might bleed into the 2021 season.
Well, first you need to determine if TJ is even indicated here. There is a big difference between elbow inflammation, and UCL damage that requires Tommy John. As noted above, Josh Beckett had consulted with Dr. Andrews in 2008 or 2009 over some elbow discomfort that turned out to be nothing.

Those advocating for immediate TJ need to look at the case of Anderson Espinoza. "Healthy around December 2020" is the typical timeline, but is nowhere near a lock either.
 

sean1562

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the cardinals 2nd best prospect is an OF. They would need to do a lot more than just sign Betts I would think, seems kind of silly to go all out for next year with that squad
 

Pitt the Elder

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Well, first you need to determine if TJ is even indicated here. There is a big difference between elbow inflammation, and UCL damage that requires Tommy John. As noted above, Josh Beckett had consulted with Dr. Andrews in 2008 or 2009 over some elbow discomfort that turned out to be nothing.

Those advocating for immediate TJ need to look at the case of Anderson Espinoza. "Healthy around December 2020" is the typical timeline, but is nowhere near a lock either.
Do we have any medical professionals that can layout the possible diagnoses for elbow inflammation?
 

Pitt the Elder

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The Cardinals themselves are a decent fit for a Mookie or Beni trade. They’re losing Ozuna this winter and may still be trying to get out from under Fowler’s contract, which the Sox could absorb if it gets them a better return. Flaherty’s obviously the prize there, but maybe Carlos Martinez is a good gamble.
What is the general strategy of trading Betts or Beni? Restock the farm? Frontline pitching to compete in 2020 and beyond?