Chris Sale aiming to return

streeter88

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 2, 2006
1,352
Melbourne, Australia
I expect Chris Sale to be a good major league pitcher the rest of the way. Not the old CHRIS SALE, but a good pitcher, and a help to this team. It was a shame to lose a game when Sale gave you five shutout innings though. Don't really want to waste those opportunities.
I agree completely with this take. The fact that the loss was completely self-inflicted by errors, bad base running and Brasier is even worse.

Edit: the contrast with the TB bullpen was stark.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
4,216
I agree completely with this take. The fact that the loss was completely self-inflicted by errors, bad base running and Brasier is even worse.

Edit: the contrast with the TB bullpen was stark.
Who in the Tampa BP was a “high end” arm? Seems like the assembled pen is very similar to the Sox.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,997
Maine
Who in the Tampa BP was a “high end” arm? Seems like the assembled pen is very similar to the Sox.
Not sure streeter said anything about "high end." But your point remains that the Tampa pen is just as scrap-heap and low end semi-prospects as the Sox pen. Jalen Beeks had a good night last night. Not that dissimilar to how well Ort and Sawamura pitched on Sunday against the Yankees. Mediocre pitchers have good nights. Frankly, I'm a bit more bothered by the poor defensive decisions made on that one play than how any of the pitchers performed on the mound last night.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
32,928
Deep inside Muppet Labs
I expect Chris Sale to be a good major league pitcher the rest of the way. Not the old CHRIS SALE, but a good pitcher, and a help to this team. It was a shame to lose a game when Sale gave you five shutout innings though. Don't really want to waste those opportunities.
Respectfully, I think it's a bit rash to expect anything concrete out of him right now. He was very very good last night, but the last few years have proven that the only thing to expect from him is injuries and ineffectiveness.

If he can give more of what he gave last night that would be awesome; I just think it would be foolish to count on him. I hope the Sox have contingency plans.

Agreed about the wasted game, he gave them a boost and they threw it away.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
685
I agree with Smiling Joe, but last night looked like vintage Sale. That slider was devastating, his fastball could reach 97 and he seemed to have really good command. If we can pair that version of Sale with Evoldi, Pivetta, Winchowski, Hill etc. this rotation starts looking really really good.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
4,216
I agree with Smiling Joe, but last night looked like vintage Sale. That slider was devastating, his fastball could reach 97 and he seemed to have really good command. If we can pair that version of Sale with Evoldi, Pivetta, Winchowski, Hill etc. this rotation starts looking really really good.
Wacha should be back relatively soon. Out of the latter 2 in your rotation and Wacha, who are you either getting rid of or moving to the pen? What about when Paxton is set to go?
I don't think Hill's stuff "plays up" in a relief role unless it's in mop up duty but I also want the chance of having 6 good innings every game. Whatever you think about Wacha at this point, I'd first move Hill, then Paxton just to a multi-inning relief role with Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Winch and Wacha (.... winch and wacha!!! hahahah....) as the rotation for the year.
 

flymrfreakjar

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
2,856
Brooklyn
That his velocity didn't budge as the game went on is a great sign, and what's more:

(Per Red Sox Stats)

"Last night, Sale's fastball looked more like it did in 2017 and 2018 than it has the last two years, and his slider recovered after being different last year."



Nothing but good news to be taken from last night's start.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,997
Maine
Wacha should be back relatively soon. Out of the latter 2 in your rotation and Wacha, who are you either getting rid of or moving to the pen? What about when Paxton is set to go?
I don't think Hill's stuff "plays up" in a relief role unless it's in mop up duty but I also want the chance of having 6 good innings every game. Whatever you think about Wacha at this point, I'd first move Hill, then Paxton just to a multi-inning relief role with Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Winch and Wacha (.... winch and wacha!!! hahahah....) as the rotation for the year.
I think Winckowski is definitely an odd man out if everyone's healthy. He has performed okay for being thrust into the rotation due to injuries (4.35 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 98 ERA+ is definitionally average), but he's not been so good that he will force Cora/Bloom to keep him in the rotation if they have too many starters. And unlike any of the others listed, he can be sent to Worcester to stay stretched out should injuries come up again.

I also don't think Hill will be back any time soon, so I'm not too worried about what to do with him. I'm picturing an August/September rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Wacha, and Paxton. If Hill's back, fine. If not, having Winckowski and Seabold (and Crawford, I guess) a short ride away in Worcester is decent enough depth.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
685
I think Winckowski is definitely an odd man out if everyone's healthy. He has performed okay for being thrust into the rotation due to injuries (4.35 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 98 ERA+ is definitionally average), but he's not been so good that he will force Cora/Bloom to keep him in the rotation if they have too many starters. And unlike any of the others listed, he can be sent to Worcester to stay stretched out should injuries come up again.

I also don't think Hill will be back any time soon, so I'm not too worried about what to do with him. I'm picturing an August/September rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Wacha, and Paxton. If Hill's back, fine. If not, having Winckowski and Seabold (and Crawford, I guess) a short ride away in Worcester is decent enough depth.
I would be curious what Winchowski and Crawford could do in the bullpen assuming we don't need them for the rotation. So come August you have, in no particular order, Evoldi, Sale, Paxton, Wacha, and PIvetta. Bullpen would be Houck, Schrieber, Strahm, Sawamura, Whitlock, Crawford, Winchowski, Davis
 
Last edited:

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
4,216
I would be curious what Winchowski and Crawford could do in the bullpen assuming we don't need them for the rotation. So come August you have, in no particular order, Evoldi, Sale, Paxton, Wacha, and PIvetta. Bullpen would be Houck, Schrieber, Strahm, Sawamura, Whitlock, Crawford, Winchowski, Davis
What's the situation with Taylor???? Wasn't he expected back a few weeks ago?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,997
Maine
What's the situation with Taylor???? Wasn't he expected back a few weeks ago?
He pitched an inning last night for the SeaDogs. He's got about a week left in his rehab time before he needs to be activated or shut down for ~10 days to reset his clock. My bet is he rejoins the team post-All Star break.
 

TheYellowDart5

Hustle and bustle
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2003
8,877
NYC
Amazing that Sale's slider gets nearly two more inches of horizontal break now versus 2017 and yet that's closer to average because of just how many big sweeper sliders there are now. Baseball really is a copycat sport.

Just four whiffs for Sale on the night is a bit discouraging, 2/11 on the fastball and 2/9 on the slider. The slider got hit hard when it was put in play, too. But the velocity was great, he threw tons of strikes, and he made it through five relatively low-stress innings in a reasonable number of pitches. It's too early to assume he's back, but it's a good sign that he looked a lot like vintage Chris Sale.
 

Bergs

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
18,153
Amazing that Sale's slider gets nearly two more inches of horizontal break now versus 2017 and yet that's closer to average because of just how many big sweeper sliders there are now. Baseball really is a copycat sport.

Just four whiffs for Sale on the night is a bit discouraging, 2/11 on the fastball and 2/9 on the slider. The slider got hit hard when it was put in play, too. But the velocity was great, he threw tons of strikes, and he made it through five relatively low-stress innings in a reasonable number of pitches. It's too early to assume he's back, but it's a good sign that he looked a lot like vintage Chris Sale.
Yeah. A guy that can pitch like that is valuable. Period.
 

streeter88

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 2, 2006
1,352
Melbourne, Australia
Not sure streeter said anything about "high end." But your point remains that the Tampa pen is just as scrap-heap and low end semi-prospects as the Sox pen. Jalen Beeks had a good night last night. Not that dissimilar to how well Ort and Sawamura pitched on Sunday against the Yankees. Mediocre pitchers have good nights. Frankly, I'm a bit more bothered by the poor defensive decisions made on that one play than how any of the pitchers performed on the mound last night.
Thanks @Red(s)HawksFan . The conversation has rightfully moved on to discussion about Sale’s velocity, location and efficiency. My apologies but I was laid low with Covid over the last couple of days and really not able to respond.

My point about the respective bullpens was altogether more fundamental than what SLT inferred. The TB bullpen got it done in all three games, and the Red Sox bullpen just didn’t. The point about poor defense and base running I made in my post still stands however. The Red Sox beat themselves in the Sale game.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,033
Not sure why that injury will be blamed on him, but I'm sure some will claim that "not getting hit by a batted ball" is a "skill".
 

worm0082

Penbis
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2002
3,816
I’m sure it was the ball hitting the hand but Like some others in the game thread I’m curious if it’s possible he injured it when he hit the ground like that? It happened so fast I doubt he knows.
 

nazz45

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2003
2,885
Eternia
Fwiw, Bumgarner broke his fifth metacarpal from a batted ball back in 2018 (required surgery) and missed about 2 months.
 

GB5

lurker
Aug 26, 2013
354
None of this matters but good lord is Shaughnessy going to torture him tomorrow. The premise will be that he was on his way to another clunker in the Bronx, but Shaughnessy will make it super personal after that.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
2,367
All that really matters is how he pitches rest of year ...and who the heck knows how that will go? Based on his recent track record, would not be shocked if he finds a way to get back on the DL. Probably best to keep expectations low and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
this aged well
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,997
Maine
I’m sure it was the ball hitting the hand but Like some others in the game thread I’m curious if it’s possible he injured it when he hit the ground like that? It happened so fast I doubt he knows.
Does it really matter? Neither was really within his control and I don't think knowing for certain will change the diagnosis or the recovery.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,443
Not sure why that injury will be blamed on him, but I'm sure some will claim that "not getting hit by a batted ball" is a "skill".
Bloom needs to be fired and Sale needs to be flogged in the town square.

Also, Mookie Betts.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,997
Maine
He’s always injured. Doesn’t matter if it’s fluky or long term wear or an asteroid hits his house (which frankly might help the Sox dump his salary.)

Some guys are always hurt and he’s one of them.
But saying it's a feature rather than a bug implies that the Sox want it that way, which is in no way the case.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
32,928
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Wouldn't always being injured be a bug, not a feature?
It’s who he is. It’s who he has been forever. It’s who he‘ll be forever.

This is why I said that counting on Sale for anything is foolish. He can’t be counted on for anything but disappointment because he’s never healthy.

The Sox gave this guy $168 million and have received nothing in return. They would have been better off burning $168 million because at least it wouldn’t have counted towards the luxury tax.
 

McSweeny

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
78
It’s who he is. It’s who he has been forever. It’s who he‘ll be forever.

This is why I said that counting on Sale for anything is foolish. He can’t be counted on for anything but disappointment because he’s never healthy.

The Sox gave this guy $168 million and have received nothing in return. They would have been better off burning $168 million because at least it wouldn’t have counted towards the luxury tax.
Chris Sale - a little buggy
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
22,826
Newton
I’ve been annoyed with him for a while but it seems more than a little weird to basically be blaming Sale for today’s injury.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
77,952
Oregon
I’ve been annoyed with him for a while but it seems more than a little weird to basically be blaming Sale for today’s injury.
I think the argument, at least how I'm reading it, is the fault lies with those who gave him the contract. That if he weren't on the team today, he wouldn't have gotten hurt.

He'd be getting hurt for some other team ... but let those fans get into semantical wars about it
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
32,928
Deep inside Muppet Labs
I’ve been annoyed with him for a while but it seems more than a little weird to basically be blaming Sale for today’s injury.
Obviously it’s not his fault, but there’s always SOMETHING with this guy. It’s gotten tiresome. The only emotion I feel when I see he’s hurt again is disgust. If it wasn’t a line drive it would be dengue fever or something.

Lost in all of this is that he was getting his ass kicked by the Yankees in that inning before he got hurt, so it’s not like he was even helping that much. Never, ever count on him to contribute, it’s utter madness.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
53,134
Signing players who’ve had their skeletons replaced with adamantium is the new market inefficiency. Sad to see the Sox still behind the trend.
 

Sox Puppet

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2016
652
I'm not going to be a jerk and say that this injury was Sale's fault in any way.

That said, his season line is going to be: 5 2/3 innings pitched, $30M in earnings
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
31,444
I'm not going to be a jerk and say that this injury was Sale's fault in any way.

That said, his season line is going to be: 5 2/3 innings pitched, $30M in earnings

Hard to believe he topped his only appearing in 9 games in 2021 with his 2022 campaign