Chris Sale aiming to return

Sin Duda

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If you are going to be a pedant.

Risk of injury from cycling compared to driving. 45,000 cyclists vs. 2.4M motorists were injured in 2005, from traveling 6.2 billion miles and 1.6 M-M miles respectively, yielding 7.3 injuries per million miles for cyclists and 1.5 injuries per million miles travelled for motorists, making cyclists 4.9 times more likely to be injured per mile of travel. NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts 2005 (PDF)

Testosterone kills. Male riders are seven times more likely to end up a fatality than a female cyclist, and four times more likely to be injured. (Treehugger, 2009)

Kinds of crashes. Falls account for 59% of all crashes, running into a fixed object 14%, moving motor vehicles were involved in 11%, and another bicycle in 9%. (Moritz, 1998)

One in every 20 bicyclists is injured annually. (Bicycling Magazine 1987)

A bicyclist can expect a minor injury every three years and a more serious one every fifteen. (Bicycle Forum 1978)
As a frequent bike rider, your research is both relevant and informative, thank you. Regarding this newest injury, I hope we can agree that we the fans are less impacted than Chris, or Chaim, or his Red sox teammates, or the owners. I'm on board with lamenting the fact that he's hurt AGAIN, and that he should have taken more care. I just wish we could pull back from the personal attacks on players from whom we want and expect more. I hate the expression due to its overuse, but "it is what it is".
 

chrisfont9

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My turn. Show me better data that proves your point.
https://bikeleague.org/content/bicycle-commuting-data
https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/cycling-surge-here-to-stay-in-many-cities-report-suggests/610480/
Cycling participation in the US more than doubled from 2001 to 2009. More recently it jumped another 50% since the start of the pandemic. So, like I said, anything using 1978 participation data is useless.There's also a NatGeo piece behind a paywall documenting how the US has transformed its access to safe cycling routes. If you actually wanted real info it would be easy to find.
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
As for data, I found these in the 37 seconds I'm willing to devote to demonstrating that Sale riding a bike is not like Lonborg skiiing or Jeff Kent washing his truck, or Wade Boggs willing himself invisible.
Boston Car Accident Statistics - Sweeney Merrigan Law, LLP
The total number of car accidents reported in Boston
2017: 5,281
2018: 4,777
2019: 4,432

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwielsXUpLr5AhXtD1kFHSjACLQQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https://www.mass.gov/doc/boston-ems-2020-cyclist-pedestrian-report/download&usg=AOvVaw3GmP8CHFMFX3S9YXZYJTXw
BICYCLIST INCIDENTS
There were 306 documented bicyclist incidents in 2020, where 217 resulted in transport to an area
hospital. Of the remaining 89 incidents, 83 were patient refusals, 4 “no medicals”, and 2 fatal
incidents referred directly to the medical examiner.
You are almost there. Now you need to find the total miles riden in both.

Unless you think they are exactly equal?

I guess asking for a full minute of thinking was too much.
 

8slim

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I don't know a single, serious road cyclist who hasn't been hit by a car at some point. My step-father, who has been biking for 40+ years, has been hit 3 times.

Regardless, the gift of Dombrowski keeps on giving.
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
Reply
https://bikeleague.org/content/bicycle-commuting-data
https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/cycling-surge-here-to-stay-in-many-cities-report-suggests/610480/
Cycling participation in the US more than doubled from 2001 to 2009. More recently it jumped another 50% since the start of the pandemic. So, like I said, anything using 1978 participation data is useless.There's also a NatGeo piece behind a paywall documenting how the US has transformed its access to safe cycling routes. If you actually wanted real info it would be easy to find.
You seem to be having a similar analytical problem as Joe.

We are talking about the rate of an occurrence per mile.

I can now completely understand why this has been difficult for both of you.
 

Max Power

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As for data, I found these in the 37 seconds I'm willing to devote to demonstrating that Sale riding a bike is not like Lonborg skiiing or Jeff Kent washing his truck, or Wade Boggs willing himself invisible.
Boston Car Accident Statistics - Sweeney Merrigan Law, LLP
The total number of car accidents reported in Boston
2017: 5,281
2018: 4,777
2019: 4,432

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwielsXUpLr5AhXtD1kFHSjACLQQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https://www.mass.gov/doc/boston-ems-2020-cyclist-pedestrian-report/download&usg=AOvVaw3GmP8CHFMFX3S9YXZYJTXw
BICYCLIST INCIDENTS
There were 306 documented bicyclist incidents in 2020, where 217 resulted in transport to an area
hospital. Of the remaining 89 incidents, 83 were patient refusals, 4 “no medicals”, and 2 fatal
incidents referred directly to the medical examiner.
Just about every car accident is reported. Bike accidents only show up in the stats if there's a reason to call someone for help. I doubt Chris Sale's bike accident is recorded anywhere, but the hit and run where my unoccupied parked car was scratched up certainly was. I don't think there are stats recorded anywhere that provide a valid comparison.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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4 pages of this thread. I'm not reading in order to catch up.
But..... uh..... 48 innings over two seasons. Fuck this guy.
 

joe dokes

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Just about every car accident is reported. Bike accidents only show up in the stats if there's a reason to call someone for help. I doubt Chris Sale's bike accident is recorded anywhere, but the hit and run where my unoccupied parked car was scratched up certainly was. I don't think there are stats recorded anywhere that provide a valid comparison.
Probably true. It was just a quick-and-dirty look that surprised me to turn up any numbers at all. Nevertheless, I don't think him riding his bike to and from BC was so inherently dangerous that it deserves to be a consideration other than in the usual cesspools of "sports" "talk" radio.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I defer to the ortho docs on site, but I heard the other day that the pinky is actually really important for gripping and maintaining a grip, so losing one or not having one that works is going to make life harder on most people. But I don't know if that is true.
 

Rovin Romine

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Frankly the angst is surprising to me.

85% of the site thinks we're not making the post-season anyway. https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/will-the-sox-make-the-playoffs-and-how-far-if-so.37193/page-2#post-5127709

So who really cares? Those much-tweeted IP and days on the IL numbers were pretty much always going to be the same from the moment his pinky snapped till today, tomorrow, the end of this season, the off-season, spring-training, and until we suit up for the first actual game next year.

He's either healthy to start 2023 or he's not. None of his current injuries are likely to be a factor 7 or 8 months from now.

Hopefully we get a little more mileage on his arm.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Frankly the angst is surprising to me.

85% of the site thinks we're not making the post-season anyway. https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/will-the-sox-make-the-playoffs-and-how-far-if-so.37193/page-2#post-5127709

So who really cares? Those much-tweeted IP and days on the IL numbers were pretty much always going to be the same from the moment his pinky snapped till today, tomorrow, the end of this season, the off-season, spring-training, and until we suit up for the first actual game next year.

He's either healthy to start 2023 or he's not. None of his current injuries are likely to be a factor 7 or 8 months from now.

Hopefully we get a little more mileage on his arm.
Yeah, this kind of works out pretty well. With nothing to play for this year, this keeps innings off his arm.

Without this injury I don't think they could have shut him down. He never would have gone for it, and people paying $200 a ticket for the good seats would not have stood for it I assume. But this makes it so there's no choice. It's his right hand so shouldn't matter for 2023.

I also think this injury serves another purpose -- it adds to the growing body of evidence that this guy's physiology or perhaps his lifestyle is not consistent with staying healthy enough to pitch. Maybe Bloom truly believes that this is all just random. Maybe it is. But I think it's good for us fans if the club at least takes a pause before making any plans for the future that include expectations about Sale ever being able to contribute.
 

Wake49

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So what’s the over/under on the number of starts Sale makes in ‘23? I’d set it at 15 and take the under. Or if innings are your thing I go with 90 (and take the under).
 

Archer1979

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I will never understand why Chris Sale was signed after the 2018 season when he had another year left on his contract.
I've convinced myself that DD as well as the ownership group fell in love with the 2018 edition (and rightfully so). But they did the worst thing that they could have done which was not look forward. For all the talk of the Sox coming out of the gate slow in 2019 as they wanted to "baby" the pitching staff, the reality is that every team needs to somewhat retool in the off-season. Sale was one example. Pearce was another (because how do you let a local boy/World Series MVP walk?)
 

genoasalami

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Solid entertainment this year. Very little of that entertainment has been via quality play on the diamond.
 

themactavish

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As someone who has cycled seriously for his entire adult life, the big question I'd have here is how functional his hand was while riding with his injury. My bike handling skills are pretty decent, but not nearly as good if I'd riding one-handed or anything close to one-handed. And if I can't use two hands normally, then speed, terrain, road surface, and road conditions are that much more crucial. Yeah, I can cycle leisurely holding a cup o' sumpthin' on a good road without obstacles and devoid of heavy traffic. But if I must go a little faster, if there are potholes or sewer drains, if there's lots of traffic, or any other other complications, my handling skills deteriorate pretty quickly. Ah well, it's water under the bridge now for Chris Sale, but I'd wonder how compromised his injury made him for riding a bike in whatever conditions he was riding.
 

Rovin Romine

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I also think this injury serves another purpose -- it adds to the growing body of evidence that this guy's physiology or perhaps his lifestyle is not consistent with staying healthy enough to pitch. Maybe Bloom truly believes that this is all just random. Maybe it is. But I think it's good for us fans if the club at least takes a pause before making any plans for the future that include expectations about Sale ever being able to contribute.
Eh. I don't know. Unless he's changed something drastic in his life, he's still the same guy who was good for 25-32 starts from ages 23-30.

Sometimes shit happens. He got TJ - it happens to a bunch of guys. He came back.

This year he hurt himself working out to try to get ready for the season during a lockout. Bad luck. He was hit by a batted ball when he did come back. Bad luck. (He fell off his bike - sort of a nothing burger.)

I don't see a lot of physiology or lifestyle connections there.

I'm not even sure what they would hypothetically be.
 

mauidano

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No ... he thinks someone has a Sale voodoo doll. / Post 616
Maybe a sacrifice of the Lurker above will take care of the voodoo doll!

In reality, I get we are all frustrated by it. I'm sure Chris is too.

In all likelihood, he wasn't going to pitch again this season anyway. Our resident SoSH Ortho, DRS, laid it out pretty clearly about the wrist and unless something else crazy happens, Sale will be good to go in 2023.

Just crazy shit luck for all concerned. Just like the 2022 season.
 

j44thor

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Eh. I don't know. Unless he's changed something drastic in his life, he's still the same guy who was good for 25-32 starts from ages 23-30.

Sometimes shit happens. He got TJ - it happens to a bunch of guys. He came back.

This year he hurt himself working out to try to get ready for the season during a lockout. Bad luck. He was hit by a batted ball when he did come back. Bad luck. (He fell off his bike - sort of a nothing burger.)

I don't see a lot of physiology or lifestyle connections there.

I'm not even sure what they would hypothetically be.
He fractured a rib working out, I'd say that has more to do with his frail physique than bad luck. I think he is very injury prone because he weighs 170-180 at 6'6". Quite possible the wrist fracture is also related to his tiny frame. Perhaps if he had more mass he would have sprained his wrist like you normally do when you fall not break it.
 

joe dokes

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As someone who has cycled seriously for his entire adult life, the big question I'd have here is how functional his hand was while riding with his injury. My bike handling skills are pretty decent, but not nearly as good if I'd riding one-handed or anything close to one-handed. And if I can't use two hands normally, then speed, terrain, road surface, and road conditions are that much more crucial. Yeah, I can cycle leisurely holding a cup o' sumpthin' on a good road without obstacles and devoid of heavy traffic. But if I must go a little faster, if there are potholes or sewer drains, if there's lots of traffic, or any other other complications, my handling skills deteriorate pretty quickly. Ah well, it's water under the bridge now for Chris Sale, but I'd wonder how compromised his injury made him for riding a bike in whatever conditions he was riding.
Wasn't he going to BC to throw? That suggests to me a more-than-minimum amount of fucntion.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Who cares?

Sox are in last place in the AL East. Him throwing this season is wasting whatever small amount of innings he's got left.

Wrap him in bubble wrap for the offseason, wait 6-8 weeks for the sprains he got while unwrapping him to heal, and then try to get some innings from him next season.
 

donutogre

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Who cares?

Sox are in last place in the AL East. Him throwing this season is wasting whatever small amount of innings he's got left.

Wrap him in bubble wrap for the offseason, wait 6-8 weeks for the sprains he got while unwrapping him to heal, and then try to get some innings from him next season.
That's where I'm at. I had no expectation of him pitching again in this lost season for both him and the Sox; might as well let him rest up for 2023. Any innings he threw for the rest of the year would have been pretty meaningless, and it sounded pretty unlikely that he would have made it back this year anyway.

That's not to say that this isn't still ridiculous... dude definitely has some serious bad luck going on along with being injury-prone, but I'm not experiencing any agitation over this one really.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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I defer to the ortho docs on site, but I heard the other day that the pinky is actually really important for gripping and maintaining a grip, so losing one or not having one that works is going to make life harder on most people. But I don't know if that is true.
The pinky finger is in fact more important then, say, your index finger when it comes to gripping something like a handle or a hammer. That doesn’t apply to the way most people throw a baseball though, so I wasn’t terribly concerned that the pinky finger fracture would cause significant long-term issues for his throwing.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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I defer to the ortho docs on site, but I heard the other day that the pinky is actually really important for gripping and maintaining a grip, so losing one or not having one that works is going to make life harder on most people. But I don't know if that is true.
Eh, I broke my hand in a cycling-related fall about a decade ago, and I was back on my bike - commuting between Cambridge and the BU area - a few weeks later with my hand in a cast. I managed fine. For what it's worth, it was the bone connected to my ring finger on my dominant hand.

Eh. I don't know. Unless he's changed something drastic in his life, he's still the same guy who was good for 25-32 starts from ages 23-30.

Sometimes shit happens. He got TJ - it happens to a bunch of guys. He came back.

This year he hurt himself working out to try to get ready for the season during a lockout. Bad luck. He was hit by a batted ball when he did come back. Bad luck. (He fell off his bike - sort of a nothing burger.)

I don't see a lot of physiology or lifestyle connections there.

I'm not even sure what they would hypothetically be.
I agree with you on this. I think people get emotional about Sale because of some (misguided, IMO) notion that the DD Front Office "chose" him over Mookie plus the vaccine stuff, and now the recent run of injuries is somehow proof that he's a bad baseball player and, like, a bad person I guess?
 

cornwalls@6

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Chris Sale, thinking about dinner order, suffers a aneurysm, last rites administered.

Chis Sale, waiving to neighbor, tears ulnar tendon. Second Tommy John surgery required. Out for season.

Chris Sale, sneezing, suffers collapsed lung, out for season.

Chris Sale, trimming nails, amputates thumb on pitching hand; career feared over.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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The pinky finger is in fact more important then, say, your index finger when it comes to gripping something like a handle or a hammer. That doesn’t apply to the way most people throw a baseball though, so I wasn’t terribly concerned that the pinky finger fracture would cause significant long-term issues for his throwing.
True, though I was more thinking his ability to grip the bicycle handles.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Maybe a sacrifice of the Lurker above will take care of the voodoo doll!

In reality, I get we are all frustrated by it. I'm sure Chris is too.

In all likelihood, he wasn't going to pitch again this season anyway. Our resident SoSH Ortho, DRS, laid it out pretty clearly about the wrist and unless something else crazy happens, Sale will be good to go in 2023.

Just crazy shit luck for all concerned. Just like the 2022 season.
How has that been working out for us this year?
 

54thMA

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There's injury prone, really cursed, snake bitten, incredibly unlucky .............and now we have a new term to add; "Chris Sale".

"Wow, so and so is hurt again; poor guy, I feel badly for him, he's Chris Sale."
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Eh. I don't know. Unless he's changed something drastic in his life, he's still the same guy who was good for 25-32 starts from ages 23-30.

Sometimes shit happens. He got TJ - it happens to a bunch of guys. He came back.

This year he hurt himself working out to try to get ready for the season during a lockout. Bad luck. He was hit by a batted ball when he did come back. Bad luck. (He fell off his bike - sort of a nothing burger.)

I don't see a lot of physiology or lifestyle connections there.

I'm not even sure what they would hypothetically be.
Vertigo?

Seriously, I don't know. But don't forget that he also got shut down for a couple of months in 2018 and came back on a pitch count (though he was effective).

Gotta admit that the injury coming back was weird.

I guess if in March you were to hear that he developed a hip issue throwing a bullpen, none of us would be surprised at all.
 

E5 Yaz

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There's injury prone, really cursed, snake bitten, incredibly unlucky .............and now we have a new term to add; "Chris Sale".

"Wow, so and so is hurt again; poor guy, I feel badly for him, he's Chris Sale."
Byron Buxton just guffaws at this
 

Sin Duda

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I don't know a single, serious road cyclist who hasn't been hit by a car at some point. My step-father, who has been biking for 40+ years, has been hit 3 times.

Regardless, the gift of Dombrowski keeps on giving.
If you're doing a survey, I've been cycling recreationally then more seriously for 54 years, hit by cars twice, but played in a baseball game later that week the first time (when I was 12) and later that same night when I was 18. C'mon Chris, suck it up! I've never been hit (knock wood) since I've taken up longer road riding.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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If he turns out to have lied about the injury and they can get out of the contract, it will be the second best win of the year sheet Ortiz going into the Hall of Fame.
 

moondog80

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He would be far from the first player to cover up something like this, but there being no witnesses doesn't strike me as particularly fishy.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I can't believe the Red Sox would be duped into releasing a very specific release about the nature of the injury, the diagnosis, the procedure, and the name of the doctor. I think we can be pretty certain that the injury and the surgery are true. I suppose the how of the injury may theoretically be incorrect, though I doubt that even Sale is dumb enough to lie about that..

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1557011816018067456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1557011816018067456%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
 

Rovin Romine

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If he turns out to have lied about the injury and they can get out of the contract, it will be the second best win of the year sheet Ortiz going into the Hall of Fame.
He would be far from the first player to cover up something like this, but there being no witnesses doesn't strike me as particularly fishy.
Lied/Covered up what hypothetically?
 

moondog80

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Injury from punching a wall or something similar that would be characterized as grossly negligent.

I'd be lying if I said it didn't cross my mind this morning.
Right. To be a bit more specific, something that would potentially put him at risk of having his contract voided.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the case. But this is why one might try and cover something up.