Like I said, we all have posts like that from time to time, but......Seconded. Just about the worst kind of reactionary garbage.
Like I said, we all have posts like that from time to time, but......Seconded. Just about the worst kind of reactionary garbage.
A lot of off season training for pitchers is conditioning, weight training, flexibility type stuff with some throwing, long toss, and small bullpen sessions. You never truly let it go full throttle until ST however when facing live hitters.Is pitching so unlike other sports so that pitchers really do nothing but rest in the offseason? I know pitching is an incredible strain on your arm, and very different from playing basketball or whatever. But, it is still shocking to me that someone would show up in Spring training and really not be able to throw without pain. Did he not throw a ball or do anything at all like pitching all Winter?
I know it's not the same thing, but it would be incredibly absurd for Jason Tatum to show up to Celtics training camp and say "Gee, I can't shoot a basketball it hurts so much". My natural thought would be that in the offseason, Sale would be doing some type of workouts that would utilize the same muscles as the pitching motion. Do they not do that?
In competitive pitchers we do it pretty often. The orthopedist has to make a separate request, but it's simple to do. For most run-of-the-mill elbow pain MR cases we don't do an injection.This might be a question for @radsoxfan , but how often does the dye contrast option get done to prove conclusively, either way, the severity of this kind of injury? Is it a special request that has to be made?
You don't think it's possible to feel/look great in one outing (whether it's a game-situation, a bullpen, long toss, or whatever), then have something go wrong in the next?I can't remember the details, but didn't Sale have a bullpen session or BP or something where he was throwing and the pitching coach said that Sale was doing great and had no issues at all? Was that complete propaganda or something? I'm just having a hard time going from "Sale looks great" to "Sale is going to try and pitch the first part of the season and then maybe out for 18 months if it doesn't work out".
It's always hard to tell. What did the session consist of? How long did it last? Any restrictions as to how hard the pitcher threw? Things could go well and soreness sets in the following day or perhaps the pitcher keeps a little pain to himself initially.I can't remember the details, but didn't Sale have a bullpen session or BP or something where he was throwing and the pitching coach said that Sale was doing great and had no issues at all? Was that complete propaganda or something? I'm just having a hard time going from "Sale looks great" to "Sale is going to try and pitch the first part of the season and then maybe out for 18 months if it doesn't work out".
If by something goes wrong, some sort of injury - slipping off the mound, etc. Then, yes. But, I do find it odd that one is doing the same motion from one day to the next and all of a sudden it hurts so bad that they would look into surgery.You don't think it's possible to feel/look great in one outing (whether it's a game-situation, a bullpen, long toss, or whatever), then have something go wrong in the next?
It's also fairly likely that he felt great/fine during and right after the session but then was sore the next day. Happens to pitchers all the time.If by something goes wrong, some sort of injury - slipping off the mound, etc. Then, yes. But, I do find it odd that one is doing the same motion from one day to the next and all of a sudden it hurts so bad that they would look into surgery.
Isn't what you describe as odd exactly what an injury is? Everyone feels good until they get hurt, and injuries don't only come from doing something out of the ordinary or noticeably different than usual. Repetitive use injuries are a thing.If by something goes wrong, some sort of injury - slipping off the mound, etc. Then, yes. But, I do find it odd that one is doing the same motion from one day to the next and all of a sudden it hurts so bad that they would look into surgery.
I'm not so sure about that. For as long as I've been paying attention to sports, "he had a good workout today, we'll see how he feels tomorrow and go from there" has been the response of coaches describing their injured players' workouts.If by something goes wrong, some sort of injury - slipping off the mound, etc. Then, yes. But, I do find it odd that one is doing the same motion from one day to the next and all of a sudden it hurts so bad that they would look into surgery.
'Tis but a scratch.Shouldn't the thread subtitle be "It's just a flesh wound"?
Dr. Christoper Geary is an orthopedic surgeon at Tufts Medical Center. And while he’s never examined or evaluated Sale, he specializes in shoulder and elbow surgeries. He offered some insight into the many questions surrounding Sale’s status.
Read the whole thing though.So is it safe to say this flexor strain and the elbow in general, even if he doesn’t need Tommy John surgery, is something he’ll have to manage over the remainder of his career?
More likely than not. Then it’s the question of how frequent are they, to what level are they? Is it, oh I just need more treatment in between starts because my elbow kind of hurts? Or is it the kind of thing where he’s being put on the (injured list) every two months because his elbow flares up? Eventually you’re going to say, “All right, what are we doing here? If we can’t count on you, maybe do have the surgery.” That’s the kind of thing that’s very player-dependent. Some guys are very averse, understandably, to undergoing surgery, especially something that major.
Isn't The Athletic behind a paywall?Read the whole thing though.
“The concern with him, his UCL, I’m sure it’s not perfect. The question is, is this just part of an inevitable cascade? Like he has a flexor strain, eventually he’s going to completely blow out his UCL and need surgery? But it’s the kind of thing where they’ve had the MRIs, they’ve had people look at them, it’s probably a partial tear of his ulnar collateral ligament and the flexor muscle got irritated. They probably had a previous MRI of his elbow and the ligament probably looks very similar. It’s not perfect, but it’s not at the stage yet where it needs an operation. But could this become a reoccurring thing? It’s certainly a higher risk than if the ligament was perfect.Isn't The Athletic behind a paywall?
:clicks link:
Yup.
Thank you.“The concern with him, his UCL, I’m sure it’s not perfect. The question is, is this just part of an inevitable cascade? Like he has a flexor strain, eventually he’s going to completely blow out his UCL and need surgery? But it’s the kind of thing where they’ve had the MRIs, they’ve had people look at them, it’s probably a partial tear of his ulnar collateral ligament and the flexor muscle got irritated. They probably had a previous MRI of his elbow and the ligament probably looks very similar. It’s not perfect, but it’s not at the stage yet where it needs an operation. But could this become a reoccurring thing? It’s certainly a higher risk than if the ligament was perfect.
The Red Sox said in the MRI of Sale’s elbow from November compared to the one taken in early March, the UCL is the same. So the flexor strain could be a result of the UCL having a small tear? A flexor strain doesn’t happen on its own without something occurring in the ligament?
It absolutely could. But certainly having an issue with the ligament makes you more prone to that.”
Not the right forum - but the Athletic has been worth every penny I've paid (there are almost always deals available too) for baseball content alone plus any other sports stuff.Isn't The Athletic behind a paywall?
:clicks link:
Yup.
It's been worth it just for Joe Posnanski's Top 100 for me.Not the right forum - but the Athletic has been worth every penny I've paid (there are almost always deals available too) for baseball content alone plus any other sports stuff.
Well, given that I (like the rest of the country) may have a whole bunch of time on my hands soon, I might look into that. Thanks!Not the right forum - but the Athletic has been worth every penny I've paid (there are almost always deals available too) for baseball content alone plus any other sports stuff.
This might be seen as the sort of elective surgery that is being cancelled all over now. They have to clear the hospitals, staff, and equipment for urgent cases.If surgery is likely inevitable, shouldn't he have it now? If there is a 2020 season, it is likely to be severely shortened. Right now the earliest is late May, but that seems really optimistic. I think there's a decent chance it's not until sometime in the summer, like the country celebrates the end of the pandemic with opening day on the Fourth of July.
No matter when they open, if you're going to miss a season, 2020 is the one to miss.
For the same reason that he didn’t have surgery in August, he doesn’t want to get cut unless it is 100% the only option. And I don’t blame him, and couldn’t care less about the team’s timeline if it were me, it’s my elbow.If surgery is likely inevitable, shouldn't he have it now? If there is a 2020 season, it is likely to be severely shortened. Right now the earliest is late May, but that seems really optimistic. I think there's a decent chance it's not until sometime in the summer, like the country celebrates the end of the pandemic with opening day on the Fourth of July.
No matter when they open, if you're going to miss a season, 2020 is the one to miss.
Catchers are more than 6 feet from the mound.Who the fuck does he throw it to in the midst of social distancing? His mom?
The ball however is not.Catchers are more than 6 feet from the mound.
Easy enough to avoid hand contact with the face during the throwing, then thoroughly washing hands or even taking a full on shower after the session is over.The ball however is not.
Or, you know, if neither of them is currently sick or immunocompromised or living with a grandparent, the risk is vanishingly small and they should just play catch without worrying about it.Easy enough to avoid hand contact with the face during the throwing, then thoroughly washing hands or even taking a full on shower after the session is over.
There's also the matter of the people we unavoidably come into contact with when carrying out essential activities, such as grocery shopping.Or, you know, if neither of them is currently sick or immunocompromised or living with a grandparent, the risk is vanishingly small and they should just play catch without worrying about it.
Still might be back before the start of the season *ducks*TJ for Sale, per Red Sox (per Twitter).
The problem is you can’t force a guy to have surgery if he doesn’t want to, and the doctors don’t say that it’s 100% necessary to do it so that you can threaten to void the contract.It is really hard not to feel like this should have happened sooner. I hope this doesn't cost him much of 2021.