Chris Sale 2020 - TJ Bound and Down

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
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San Andreas Fault
Very well said. Though I do think there was a small earthquake outside San Jose the other day.
Thanks. Missed that one. We are overdue for a big one. Very likeable guy, Chris Sale. I hope he gets through this and comes all the way back.
 

Teachdad46

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I would like to see someone from the Sox step up to the mic and tell the Nation what Chris's plan is for the timing of the surgery. Even if the date itself is unknown, it would be good for us fans to at least understand their thinking (team's and Sale's).
Where have you gone Dr. Andrews....the Nation turns its lonely eyes to you, youuuuuuuu....
 

Teachdad46

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Apparently non-essential/Covid19 surgeries are still available at least in some parts of the country. This from today's ESPN (3/23)

SAN DIEGO -- Hard-throwing Padres reliever Andres Munoz and minor leaguer Reggie Lawson underwent Tommy John surgery Friday.
Both right-handers were injured shortly before spring training was suspended due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Munoz, 21, made his big league debut last year and appeared in 22 games. He went 1-1 with a 3.91 ERA and 30 strikeouts, against 11 walks. He would have been a key member of the Padres' beefed-up bullpen this season, if and when it resumes.
The 22-year-old Lawson was 3-1 with a 5.20 ERA in six starts with Double-A Amarillo last season before being shut down with an elbow injury. He returned for the Arizona Fall League, going 1-0 with a 0.82 ERA in three appearances, including two starts.
 

JimD

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Nov 29, 2001
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I would like to see someone from the Sox step up to the mic and tell the Nation what Chris's plan is for the timing of the surgery. Even if the date itself is unknown, it would be good for us fans to at least understand their thinking (team's and Sale's).
Why?
 

The Gray Eagle

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Aug 1, 2001
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Sounds like no one knows yet if Sale has had surgery yet or if it is even scheduled.
Seems he won't be getting operated on in Massachusetts (not that that was likely anyway):

The Red Sox and Sale’s agent, B.B. Abbott, have declined to say when or if Sale’s surgery is scheduled. Major League Baseball and the Players’ Association declined to comment on the propriety of Tommy John surgery at a time when many states are limiting or banning elective surgeries.
In Massachusetts, Gov. Charlie Baker called for the postponement of elective procedures on March 15.
Three Massachusetts orthopedists contacted by the Globe said the state’s prohibition would include ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (i.e. Tommy John surgery), and that the operation shouldn’t be performed here for anyone, including professional athletes.
No mention in the article about the 2 Padres prospects who recently had TJ surgery, or other players like Verlander who recently had surgery for other injuries.

And this was alarming:
Dr. Chris Geary, an orthopedist at Tufts Medical Center, said he has “a little bit of skin in the game” when it comes to the dilemmas faced by orthopedists who are trying to assist their patients while also being mindful of the broader context. Geary tested positive this week for COVID-19 and is currently quarantined.
 

Ale Xander

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So given Chris is a world-class athlete in the prime of his career, and given the Gulf coast FL weather in winter is dry and mild, should we assume the pneumonia was Covid-19 induced ?
 

Van Everyman

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And not by Dr. Andrews:

Among the doctors who have stopped performing Tommy John procedures in response to the pandemic is Dr. James Andrews. An Andrews Institute spokesperson said on Monday that the institute had suspended elective procedures, including Tommy John.
Suspect there will be some blowback on this, perhaps rightly so.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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I read a related article that quoted ElAttrache saying that TJ surgery can be considered essential because the timeliness can impact the remainder of a pitcher’s professional career. Something about tissue damage and repair. ElAttrache knew his comments were controversial and wasn’t dismissive of the pressing issues related to COVID-19, but said it’s a more complex decision with a lot of variables that shouldn’t just be automatically canceled because of the pandemic. I can understand arguments on both sides, but I have to admit I’m not super comfortable with this. (But spare me the faux outrage from the likes of Shank.)
 

lexrageorge

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I read somewhere that delaying TJ too long could cause irreparable nerve damage. Of all things to get worked up about, this should be way down the list.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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I read somewhere that delaying TJ too long could cause irreparable nerve damage. Of all things to get worked up about, this should be way down the list.
That's basically bullshit. If you keep throwing with an incompetent UCL you can get ulnar nerve symptoms, but the idea that you are going to get permanent nerve damage is just an excuse to move the surgery up
 

barbed wire Bob

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That's basically bullshit. If you keep throwing with an incompetent UCL you can get ulnar nerve symptoms, but the idea that you are going to get permanent nerve damage is just an excuse to move the surgery up
Since you are in quarantine, can we expect to see more of you here? Hopefully the only thing you and your family will have to fight during this time period is boredom.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Since you are in quarantine, can we expect to see more of you here? Hopefully the only thing you and your family will have to fight during this time period is boredom.
I'll be here. I'm fighting fatigue, a low-grade fever and some upper respiratory stuff but otherwise it could be a lot worse. Probably a good time for people to hit me up with questions if they have them
 

joe dokes

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Good story. This is pretty sharp:
One day I was sitting there, and there's a couple of guys around me and we were watching TV and they were showing me having a messed-up elbow all over the place. I said, "I have an honest question to ask you guys, are they right or am I right? Because I don't know. This will be my 11th season, but my 10th full year in the big leagues. Did I break down as they said I would or did I outlast where they thought I was going to be? If you told someone in 2010, you're going to draft this guy and these are the things that he's going to do, and then on this day, he's gonna blow out and he's going to have Tommy John surgery, do you draft that guy?"
That's not for me to answer, but that's what I would ask people. If you look at my body of work before I blew out [my elbow], would you take that for the years that I played, for the money that I made? If it's a no, it's a no. I got no beef with anybody that agrees or disagrees with it.
 

brandonchristensen

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Good story. This is pretty sharp:
Of course - everyone would draft that.

The question isn’t would you draft a ten-year perennial Cy Young candidate, it’s “should you extend a guy a year before his contract ends when he has had endless arm issues and everyone has said this would happen?”
 

RedOctober3829

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In that article, this answer to the question is why I will always like Chris Sale.
Is it hard to handle the criticism that you're an overpaid player, who some may consider has not lived up to expectations?

Sale:
I had a good career in Chicago. When I got to Boston, my first year was really good too. My second season was decent but I ran into some shoulder issues. We ended up winning a World Series, so I'd even call that a relatively good season with a little hiccup. Then, 2019 was an absolute disaster. But in the end, I've never paid attention to what people say about me, because it doesn't matter.

What my teammates, what my family, what my coaches think about me, that's first and foremost. Not to mention the fact that all these people were talking about how I was so underpaid and undervalued, that I wasn't making enough money for the production that I was doing. Then overnight, I'm an overpaid player. If the flag is that easily blown, you can't really pay attention to it.

I appreciate the fans of baseball, and especially Boston fans. Just like me, they have high expectations and they'll let you know when you're not doing what they want you to do. But if you look at my track record, I have always had really high expectations, and I'm the first one to tell you when I suck. At the end of the day, I truly believe you should never play any competitive sport for anything other than to win. If you're playing for a contract, if you're playing for numbers, if you're playing for fame and fortune, whatever it is, usually you can tell what players play for that kind of stuff; they never achieve what the final goal is.

When you play a game from the time you're 4 to however old you play, all you want to do is win. Once you lose that, then it's time to go home. I'm too competitive to care about anything else other than winning. People asked me when I was playing under a quote-unquote team-friendly contract, what my main goal was. It was always to win. Now that I'm making all this money and I'm not producing, my goal is still to win. It doesn't change for me, no matter who I play for, the money I'm making or however many years I have in the league. I play to win.
 

JimD

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In that article, this answer to the question is why I will always like Chris Sale.
Yep. Beyond the matter of how 'successful' the contract extension ultimately is, I'm rooting for Chris Sale because he does seem like a guy who cares about playing well and wants to win for his team.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Of course - everyone would draft that.

The question isn’t would you draft a ten-year perennial Cy Young candidate, it’s “should you extend a guy a year before his contract ends when he has had endless arm issues and everyone has said this would happen?”
‘Endless’? He had the elbow last year which was probably a direct result of the shoulder the year before. Beyond that am I missing an injury? Honest question, I don’t recall anything but I didn’t follow him everyday in Chicago.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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‘Endless’? He had the elbow last year which was probably a direct result of the shoulder the year before. Beyond that am I missing an injury? Honest question, I don’t recall anything but I didn’t follow him everyday in Chicago.
Here is Sale's IL history as a big leaguer:
In 2014, he missed a month with a flexor muscle strain in his left arm.
In 2015, he missed the first week of the season recovering from a fracture in his right foot.
In 2018, he missed most of August and early September with inflammation in his left shoulder.
In 2019, he missed the last six weeks of the season with inflammation in his left elbow.

I don't see any "endless" anything there. Four injuries, four separate seasons, none particularly chronic (the elbow was probably deteriorating for years...all pitchers' elbows are).
 

brandonchristensen

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‘Endless’? He had the elbow last year which was probably a direct result of the shoulder the year before. Beyond that am I missing an injury? Honest question, I don’t recall anything but I didn’t follow him everyday in Chicago.
Fine, endless is an overreaction. But the point remains - it's a weird defense for someone who just got his big contract at a time when everyone watching knew it was a bad idea.