Chris Sale 2020 - TJ Bound and Down
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
Jesus that's frustrating. I suppose the upside is that maybe he will be good again after this over, as opposed to just being in inevitable decline.
This is being negotiated now. What I’ve read suggests players would not receive service time for a complete washout (I.e. If the entire season is lost) but want any service time accrued in the event of a partial season to count for more. But nothing’s final.
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but we are in one of the worst (or should I say, most disappointing) stretches of sports that I can remember:
Gronk retires
Celtics tank in the playoffs
Bruins lose game 7 at home in the SCF
Red Sox suck for 2019
Patriots have dismal end of season, eliminated in the WC round after losing the bye
Betts traded
Bruins and Celtics - both with very promising seasons - see their season likely end because of Covid19
NCAA tournament cancelled
Brady leaves
Sale gets TJ surgery
Baseball season in jeopardy
That's four MAJOR stars (and fan favorites; Price used to be a star but was never a fan favorite here) gone. A legendary team sees its golden era end. Defending WS champs just go in the proverbial tank.
It's just been an awful stretch. And I say that knowing that we're spoiled because the Bruins and Celtics are still really good if/when those seasons ever resume. But still. Holy smokes.
Gronk retires
Celtics tank in the playoffs
Bruins lose game 7 at home in the SCF
Red Sox suck for 2019
Patriots have dismal end of season, eliminated in the WC round after losing the bye
Betts traded
Bruins and Celtics - both with very promising seasons - see their season likely end because of Covid19
NCAA tournament cancelled
Brady leaves
Sale gets TJ surgery
Baseball season in jeopardy
That's four MAJOR stars (and fan favorites; Price used to be a star but was never a fan favorite here) gone. A legendary team sees its golden era end. Defending WS champs just go in the proverbial tank.
It's just been an awful stretch. And I say that knowing that we're spoiled because the Bruins and Celtics are still really good if/when those seasons ever resume. But still. Holy smokes.
The flip side is that we may have gotten Verdugo, Wong, and Downs quite cheaply.
I'm not saying this to be snarky, but -- given this is an elective surgery, would he have to wait until after the pandemic passes? I suppose he could also go to an orthopedic-only hospital (like HSS), but it will bad optics (imo) if he gets this done at a general hospital during this.
How long does the actual procedure take? Obviously a lot going on in the hospitals... but sure would be done in orthopedic hospital.
Don't forget: Ortiz was almost killed.
But larger point, I'm not really that unhappy. As you say, we've been spoiled.
18 months if all goes as planned right? That means September assuming he can have the surgery soon
His survival was really the shining beacon for the last 15 months or so, with the 6th SB title a bit behind that (for Pats fans anyway).
I'll be sad if there is no baseball this year because baseball is awesome, but they are being wise about this. Sale getting the surgery really just makes any season we do get easier to handle because we won't be holding our breath every 5 starts.
But who takes his spot in the rotation? Will they even be able to address it before the start of any games that count, be that in a few weeks or a few months?
It feels like kharmic payback for all the winning. Like this, but worse: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WhIpdqrNk
Not sure, but I would guess that orthopedic hospitals are being pressed into a broader service.
Earliest I’ve ever heard is Billy Wagner, who returned approx. 12 months after his surgery. (And was traded to the Sox.)
My guess is that Sale is looking at a more normal time frame of 16-18 months, which means he’d be game ready sometime between late July- September.
If Sale had TJ surgery when he was shut down last Summer, he'd be ready for the start of the new season (after the wave (May), in the middle of the plateau (August), before the second wave (October.
The Dodgers must be chagrined to have spent prospects and $27 million for a partial-year Mookie, but they still get three seasons of a partial-salary Price.
Are you saying that Dr Andrews doesn't do CoVid?
And if the pandemic takes 18 months to pass? As I mentioned, better to do it now before the hospitals are overwhelmed.
That would depend on the location, wouldn't it? I don't think every metro area's healthcare system is slammed with the virus yet. For instance, Alabama (Andrews' home base) only has 46 cases so far according to the Johns Hopkins map. Arizona only has 27.
In that sense, simplicio may be right that now is likely to be better than a month or two from now, unless distancing works better than I dare to hope.
FWIW, Giants pitcher Tyler Beede is having his TJ surgery tomorrow. So I'd think Sale would be able to get his.
What next? Locusts? Death of the First Born Males?
This feels like payback for all the awesome Boston sports fans have enjoyed for the last two decades. Though I would remove the NCAA tourney and even the baseball season, since they are not uniquely shitty for Boston/NE types.
Guess this year will be ERod and Eovaldi and 2 days of rain
Or maybe just ERod and 3 days of rain
Or maybe just ERod and 3 days of rain
I hate to say this because I know it's not technically Sale's fault, but imagine if we had just taken that $29M/yr and used it to sweeten the pot for Mookie instead
I would assume that Dr. Andrews has his own facility that he can control. If not, then Sale will almost certainly be waiting to get this done.
Dinelson Lamet was pitching in the minors after 13 months and back in the majors after 15 months with improve velocity and a career best 33.6% strikeout rate.
I could have died in peace a long time ago. If this is the first couple chapters of the Book of Job, we got a LONG way to go before any of us ought to be crying on the mountaintops asking why Yahweh has forsaken us. We ain't even lost any camels yet.
Mookie was gone anyway after this season, we just got a return for him, instead of him not being able to play for us anyway. Brady is 43 and the team wasn't going anywhere. Gronk was on the express train to Dain Bramage and managed to get off a few stops early, boo fucking hoo. I mean, the single biggest boston-specific shame in that entire list is the Stanley Cup loss, where I feel like we lost to a worse team (and the only other title loss I feel that way about is the Scottish Game, I'm no whiner). Plus the Blues absolutely were a bunch of cheap-shotting goons, so justice was not served. But the rest of it? If the holy sports retribution stops there, we are so far ahead of the game that we all better start creating a modern pantheon and making moulds for all the gold statues we're going to cast of all our idols from the last two decades, because good lord(s) do we owe some praise to a bunch of people. Kill the fatted calfs!
I'm smarter than very few people, but I think if he gets it done next week -- a big if given the state of the world -- a reasonable scenario would be a rehab assignment around Memorial Day, with him coming up a few weeks later as a multi-inning reliever the way David Price was at the end of 2017 as he builds arm strength back to hopefully start the last two months.
I suspect that the coronavirus expedited the surgery. Had no crisis hit, he'd probably try to come back this season.
Due to the coronavirus, his production might be zero anyways -- so if he wants to remain competitive, now is probably the best time to do so and rehab back.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with both of you here. To call the doctors and owners "clueless" is not at all fair - this isn't a completely black and white situation, and you're dealing with a human being here, not a piece of meat. You can tell a patient all you want that you think he'd be better off having a procedure done, but he's the one taking the risk with his own health and signing up for 18 months of rehab.
As for the coronavirus thing, I think that's more of a coincidence- I think he rested, ramped back up the throwing and when he started having pain again they all decided there was no avoiding the operative route.
2020 can get bent.
Appreciate the expert opinion on this
It is certainly a silver lining, especially with a shortened (possibly non-existent) MLB season.2020 can indeed get bent. I feel bad for Devers and worse for Mookie/Xander
Thank you!
I don’t understand why people don’t get this. He didn’t want to have surgery. Most people don’t. The rehab sucks, there’s complications that can happen, and even if everything goes right there’s a risk that his elbow will never be the same.
The organization couldn’t make him have surgery. He had to decide to do that on his own.
Someone mentioned Tyler Beede upthread -- this is interesting:
View: https://twitter.com/extrabaggs/status/1240855867701911552
View: https://twitter.com/extrabaggs/status/1240855867701911552
Maybe when baseball comes back the batters will have to stand 6 feet away from the catcher, making the Red Sox rotation much more effective.
That's some solid game thread posting there. Take that garbage elsewhere or do better
Interesting note related on this - Only one pitcher who has ever had TJS has made it to the HoF. Sale would obviously be considered to be on that track and now is losing a year in his prime range due to Coronavirus and now TJ.
Of course, a good case could be made for John himself - based on stats alone, much less the surgery.
And Dr. Andrews, too.
He's certainly made a significant contribution to Baseball.
Fascinating career. He had never finished in the top 10 in the Cy Young voting before getting the surgery -- and then did so four times in the following five years. He's also one of only 10 pitchers in baseball history to pitch 1000 or more innings after age 40.
I hope you’ve enjoyed your time here as I’m sure it’s quickly coming to a close.You are right there as you are a lot smarter than me
Get it all over with at once I guess is the silver lining? Also, the coronavirus tends to put sports in the background for a while, and my home state of California is stepping up to the plate for more of its share of that. And, not even an earthquake lately. Oh shit, I said it.
Very well said. Though I do think there was a small earthquake outside San Jose the other day.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/earthquakes/m2-9-earthquake-rattles-outside-of-san-jose/2257631/