Choo to Rangers

[RedOctober3829]

@JonHeymanCBS: Shin-Soo Choo has deal with rangers. 7 years. details to come.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24383061/choo-has-a-sevenyear-agreement-with-the-rangers

 

[JCizzle]

Very interested to see what the $$$ is.

 

[MakMan44]

Fingers crossed it's less than $140 million.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Merry Christmas, Shin-Soo Choo.

 

[knucklecup]

Choo LF, Andrus SS, Fielder 1B, Beltre 3B, Rios RF, Moreland DH, Soto C, Profar 2B

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I thought Choo turning down the Yankees was pure madness. Didn't see someone else going 7 years.

Super weird market.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

$130 million per Heyman (Boras)

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Heyman says its for $130M

Interesting

 

[MartyBarrettMVP]

7/$130 per Heyman
 
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/414447852488630273

 

[Yaz4Ever]

That seems like a great deal for both sides.

 

[glennhoffmania]

If I'm Choo I ask Boras for that extra 10m. If the NY rumor was true Boras looks pretty stupid.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

That seems like a great deal for both sides.

AAV isn't bad, but Choo is 31 years old and useless on D.

 

[amfox1]

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick1m
Choo's deal is for $130M, as @JonHeymanCBS reports. Source says #rangers were Choo's first choice regardless of the $$.

 

[RyanKalishOnTheDL]

If I'm Choo I ask Boras for that extra 10m. If the NY rumor was true Boras looks pretty stupid.

 
No Texas taxes 

 

[Reverend]

If I'm Choo I ask Boras for that extra 10m. If the NY rumor was true Boras looks pretty stupid.

 
$10 million, after taxes, discounted across 7 years, accounting for the cost of living adjustment between Texas and New York, not to mention that the Texas team looks like one of the most fun non-bearded clubs in baseball to play for, and he got a 7 year deal at age 31?
 
I think Boras still gets a Festivus present.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

If I'm Choo I ask Boras for that extra 10m. If the NY rumor was true Boras looks pretty stupid.

 
And Boras can tell him he'll spot him the difference at tax time.

 

[MakMan44]

You guys are buzzkills.

 

[Reverend]

 
And Boras can tell him he'll spot him the difference at tax time.

 
Too slow, old man.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

AAV isn't bad, but Choo is 31 years old and useless on D.

I understand, but in this market the AAV isn't really all that out of whack.  Choo plays OF for awhile and moves to DH where his defensive weaknesses don't hurt them.  With that lineup, adding an OBP machine like Choo makes them VERY difficult to outscore.

 

[NDame616]

$18M a year for a 31-year old who can't play defense? I say in about 4 years they will regret this deal and try to get him to the Yankees as a salary dump

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I understand, but in this market the AAV isn't really all that out of whack.  Choo plays OF for awhile and moves to DH where his defensive weaknesses don't hurt them.  With that lineup, adding an OBP machine like Choo makes them VERY difficult to outscore.

I don't disagree. It just almost never works out on the back end with these deals.

Short term, their lineup is stacked.

 

[Al Zarilla]

$18M a year for a 31-year old who can't play defense? I say in about 4 years they will regret this deal and try to get him to the Yankees as a salary dump

If he helps them win their first world series ever, they'll consider him well worth it. Even Barry Zito's deal was "forgiven" by some after his contributions in 2012.

 

[glennhoffmania]

The point about the ten million isn't his quality of life or whether he can afford rent in Texas. With most of these guys it's about what the number means. It's why Cano was insulted that NY wouldn't go above 200m. Maybe Choo isn't one of those guys. But if he wanted to go to NY for 140m and Boras screwed it up I think he has the right to be annoyed if he wants to

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I've completely lost the ability to gauge the market over the last 15 months or so, so I'm not even shocked to see 18 million a year over 7 years for a 31 year old who can't play defense.  And I can't even call it a bad deal for Texas, even in the long term since we have no idea how their ability to eat the contract in the last few years will be.  All I know is that Texas is now in the discussion for the best offense in the majors (along with Detroit, Boston and St. Louis) even if Prince Fielder is really declining.  Their window was closing fast and the just jammed a crowbar in there to keep it open for another couple of seasons.  Maybe even three if they're lucky.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The point about the ten million isn't his quality of life or whether he can afford rent in Texas. With most of these guys it's about what the number means. It's why Cano was insulted that NY wouldn't go above 200m. Maybe Choo isn't one of those guys. But if he wanted to go to NY for 140m and Boras screwed it up I think he has the right to be annoyed if he wants to

 
Did you miss the part where Choo let it be known that Texas was his first choice, regardless of the money?
 
 
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick1m
Choo's deal is for $130M, as @JonHeymanCBS reports. Source says #rangers were Choo's first choice regardless of the $$.

 

[nattysez]

Poor Houston.  Even if they are better this year, they could easily lose 100 given the infusion of talent in the AL West.

 

[nvalvo]

This is a classic long-term FA contract. He should be really useful on offense for at least a few more seasons, and then his age 36-38 seasons are likely to be onerous. 
 
With their lineup and rotation, they have a credible shot at a few pennants. 

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

 
Did you miss the part where Choo let it be known that Texas was his first choice, regardless of the money?
 
 
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick1m
Choo's deal is for $130M, as @JonHeymanCBS reports. Source says #rangers were Choo's first choice regardless of the $$.

 
I don't put much stock into that.  How many athletes come around and say the team they signed with was their first choice once the deal is announced?  It's fairly commonplace, even if it's true in some cases.  Maybe Texas really was his first choice... the comment  being made after the fact doesn't do anything to convince me that that was the case, though.

 

[Reverend]

The point about the ten million isn't his quality of life or whether he can afford rent in Texas. With most of these guys it's about what the number means. It's why Cano was insulted that NY wouldn't go above 200m. Maybe Choo isn't one of those guys. But if he wanted to go to NY for 140m and Boras screwed it up I think he has the right to be annoyed if he wants to

 
Of course he has the right to be annoyed if he wants to. And maybe he is annoyed. But why are you moving across the gap of knowledge and assuming he will be annoyed though?
 
Any player that doesn't incorporate COLA into the salary offer is a fool--the ratio is like 2:1 for NYC to DFW. That said, many may be fools. And he has a right to be a fool. But I would put whether or not he had a strong preference for what New York City has to offer culturally above the money, although he's got a wife and three kids so maybe he'd rather have a backyard with a pool. Dunno.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Did you miss the part where Choo let it be known that Texas was his first choice, regardless of the money?
 
 
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick1m
Choo's deal is for $130M, as @JonHeymanCBS reports. Source says #rangers were Choo's first choice regardless of the $$.


No. I was responding to the responses to my first post before that quote was posted. I didn't say that Choo should be pissed. I said if he is pissed that he is justified to feel that way. If he's happy then it obviously worked out for him.

 

[Reverend]

 
I don't put much stock into that.  How many athletes come around and say the team they signed with was their first choice once the deal is announced?  It's fairly commonplace, even if it's true in some cases.  Maybe Texas really was his first choice... the comment  being made after the fact doesn't do anything to convince me that that was the case, though.

 
Depends who the source is, but we'll never know. If it were true, though, he sure as hell wouldn't say so beforehand though because that would be... foolish.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaah!

 

[E5 Yaz]

 
I don't put much stock into that.  How many athletes come around and say the team they signed with was their first choice once the deal is announced?  It's fairly commonplace, even if it's true in some cases.  Maybe Texas really was his first choice... the comment  being made after the fact doesn't do anything to convince me that that was the case, though.

 
There's as much credence in that statement as there is in the "certainty" that others have that Boras screwed up by getting "less" than he would have with the Yankees. Because of the tax situation, he's going to get more.
 
And the reason this stuff leaks out after the fact is that if it happens prior to the signing, other teams hedge their bets and Texas can get the impression they don't have to go all in

 

[The Tax Man]

Its very possible that Texas really was Choo's #1 choice and Boras leaked the old Yanks offer (that may or may not be real) solely to get Texas to increase their offer.  Or even more deliciously maybe Choo had no interest in playing for a 3rd place Yanks team that was completely devoid of a prospects.  

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

 
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaah!

 
Can I have some of that eggnog?
 

 
There's as much credence in that statement as there is in the "certainty" that others have that Boras screwed up by getting "less" than he would have with the Yankees. Because of the tax situation, he's going to get more.
 
And the reason this stuff leaks out after the fact is that if it happens prior to the signing, other teams hedge their bets and Texas can get the impression they don't have to go all in

 
Sure.  I was just pointing out that a report that Texas was his preferred destination doesn't do much to convince me that Texas really was his preferred destination.  Not that it's all that important in the end.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Its very possible that Texas really was Choo's #1 choice and Boras leaked the old Yanks offer (that may or may not be real) solely to get Texas to increase their offer.  Or even more deliciously maybe Choo had no interest in playing for a 3rd place Yanks team that was completely devoid of a prospects.  

 
Get with the program. Boras screwed up and Choo's getting $10M less!!!!

 

[Seabass]

Makes total sense for the Rangers to do this - they're firmly in contention to win the West and they needed to improve their collective on base skills. Amongst their regulars, only Beltre had an OBP over .345. They're replacing two players with subpar OBP skills with two players that have extended track records of getting on base.
 
Moreland - .299
Fielder - .362
 
Cruz - .327  
Choo - .423
 
Profar should be able to nearly replicate what Kinsler did last year, and Andrus is bound to improve somewhat. 
 
Yep, the Rangers are going to regret the end of this deal, but that's how these deals all work. Makes sense for Choo and the Rangers.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Choo didn't want to sign on to a team with poor prospects for future performance.  That's worth $10 million to avoid.

 

[Van Everyman]

Does this mean Nelson Cruz is going to be NYY's 13th OFer?

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Boras may be the only one who could have gotten him 130 mil, so I'm not sure he's that upset.
 
Plus the fact that a few years ago, he thought he would have to give up baseball and go back to Korea - at least temporarily. So all things considered I'm thinking he'll be partying it up tonight and for the next week.

 

[Bibsley]

According to a link from the Dallas Morning News (which I can't find a way to post for some reason), $130m in TX is worth about $144m in NY when you take into account the tax issues.

 

[Reverend]

According to a link from the Dallas Morning News (which I can't find a way to post for some reason), $130m in TX is worth about $144m in NY when you take into account the tax issues.

 
Now calculate the cost of living adjustment.
 
Man, people are obsessed with taxes...

 

[mauf]

Now calculate the cost of living adjustment.

Man, people are obsessed with taxes...
l

They're both overblown. Housing is an investment; other living expenses that might be higher in New York are a rounding error. And as a few of us keep pointing out, pro athletes are taxed differently from the rest of us, which tends to reduce the difference (percentage-wise) between high-tax and low-tax jurisdictions.

 

[sfip]

 
Now calculate the cost of living adjustment.
 
Man, people are obsessed with taxes...

 
Ironically The Tax Man is apparently not.
 
Here's the aforementioned DMN article.
 

 
The Rangers beat out the New York Yankees for Choo, by leveraging the value of the lack of state income tax in Texas. The approximate $130 million in Texas is worth about $143-145 million in New York. The Yankees reportedly offered a seven-year deal worth $140 million recently.

 

 

[glennhoffmania]

l

They're both overblown. Housing is an investment; other living expenses that might be higher in New York are a rounding error. And as a few of us keep pointing out, pro athletes are taxed differently from the rest of us, which tends to reduce the difference (percentage-wise) between high-tax and low-tax jurisdictions.


Yeah this. And like I point out in almost every thread about a contract, it's impossible to state with any certainty what a player's tax situation will be because there are several variables that have to be considered. So trying to calculating his savings is a pointless exercise.

 

[fuzzy_one]

l

They're both overblown. Housing is an investment; other living expenses that might be higher in New York are a rounding error. And as a few of us keep pointing out, pro athletes are taxed differently from the rest of us, which tends to reduce the difference (percentage-wise) between high-tax and low-tax jurisdictions.

 
But Choo's still trading a situation where half his salary will be taxed at NYC levels for one where half his salary will be taxed at DFW levels. That's taxes on c. $9M annually -- not exactly chump change. Given the relative tax rates, my back-of-the-envelope math says he'll save over 500k a year just in state income tax differential.

 

[AbbyNoho]

 
Ironically The Tax Man is apparently not.
 
Here's the aforementioned DMN article.
 
 

 
 
The author of his article is making incorrect assumptions about taxes, namely he is stating the value of the entire contract being taxed in one place vs the next, while in reality it is much more complex than that. It's not a $15M difference playing in Texas vs New York.

 

[YTF]

I understand, but in this market the AAV isn't really all that out of whack.  Choo plays OF for awhile and moves to DH where his defensive weaknesses don't hurt them.  With that lineup, adding an OBP machine like Choo makes them VERY difficult to outscore.

 
Providing there isn't a rather large, former first baseman holding down that spot already.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Choo LF, Andrus SS, Fielder 1B, Beltre 3B, Rios RF, Moreland DH, Soto C, Profar 2B

 
Playing with only 8 guys might be kind of a disadvantage, though, so I guess Martin sticks around and bats ninth. I thought Ellsbury would have made more sense for them - especially after they traded for 23-year-old Michael Choice, who profiles as a corner OF - but not my money, I suppose.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Does this mean Nelson Cruz is going to be NYY's 13th OFer?

I love this question unconditionally

 

[Plympton91]

I heard an interview earlier this week on MLB Radio with Joey Votto, and while he didn't say that Choo wanted Texas, he did say that Choo was a quiet guy who liked his privacy and that signing with the Yankees would have made him a rock star in Korea. He strongly implied that Choo turning down NY had nothing to do with the money.