Chelsea 2013-2014: Insufferable & Unsuccessful but Better than Arsenal

[soxfan121]

 
I heard a convincing argument a few weeks ago, and unfortunately I can't recall where, that Mourinho isn't a fan of the Spanish national team players.  Mourinho, the argument goes, like to cultivate his guys and rally them against the world, and creating a self-policing squad.  He's not the only coach or manager who's done this; Bill Parcells did it wherever he went, most notably with the Giants.  Guys like Harry Carson and Pepper Johnson ran that team the way Terry and Lampard did during Mourinho's first Chelsea stint.  Apparently the Spanish national team is a really tight group, though, and Mourinho had trouble building that culture at Real because players like Sergio Ramos, as much as they played for keeps on the pitch, wouldn't buy into hating Iniesta, Xavi, and the rest of their pals from the national team.  Mourinho thought he could never get the full loyalty of a Spanish national team player, so Mata was paying the price of being associated with those guys.
 
Obviously, the issue of dealing with the Spanish national team are a lot different at Chelsea, where he really only has to worry about building up enough hate if he's matched up against Real or Barca.  But Mourinho, as smart as he is, is also a pretty odd guy, and I wouldn't put it past him to dismiss a player for something like this.  He's also confident enough in his ability to manage a team that he wouldn't laugh off the idea of selling his squad's best player.

 
I know fuck-all about how the Portuguese (in general) feel about their neighbors but I would assume that there is some jealousy and/or ill will from the small nation toward the larger nation. The Spanish national team has been a special case (no pun intended) for the past decade or so - the most successful of all time loaded with players from opposite sides of a fierce club rivalry. Which is all a long way of saying I could buy the idea that Mourinho has a bit of a complex about the Spanish national team. 
 
As far as Chelsea goes, I think the plethora of talented attacking mids has more to do with Mata's lack of run (that and injuries?) than an anti-national team bias from The Portuguese. Oscar, Hazard, and Schurrle are all wonderfully talented players and while Mata has been the best of the group the last few seasons doesn't mean Mata "bought in" to Mourniho's system or will be the best "fit" when all the players are...fit. 
 
I also counter-sign the idea that Mourinho would have a big enough ego/estimation of his own capabilities to move on from Mata if he thought he could. That said, he didn't or hasn't yet. So I would expect Mata to be part of the rotation until three other guys are clearly out performing him and forcing him out. 
 
In the end, I would expect Mourinho to do what he wants and for the results to justify his actions in the end. Chelsea is fucking LOADED and would need to suffer a plane crash or bus accident to not finish top 2 this season. If Mata plays well he will play a lot; if he does not play well, there's more than enough talented, world-class guys straining at the leash to take his spot. 

 

[DLew On Roids]

Why would I waste my time with the dumbest, most fabricated story I have ever read regarding chelsea or Jose, and there are many. 

 
What's dumb about it?  That Mourinho would engage in a personal feud with an excellent Spanish national team player for no apparent reason?
 
I don't think it's controversial, nor is it a swipe at Mourinho, to suggest that Mourinho's method includes creating an us-against-the-world culture in the dressing room, or that he would be willing to sacrifice some level of talent in the squad to effect that when he thinks someone has divided loyalties.  And he has a history that suggests that he thinks being involved with the Spanish national team divides a player's loyalties. 
 
Any evidence you have to the contrary would be welcome.  Or are you really just a Chelsea PR bot?

 

[Snakebauer007]

 
Look, a thoughtful, non-trolling comment was posted by someone trying to talk about the club and you responded in the most dismissive way possible with no explanation whatsoever. I mean, go ahead and tell us why it's so absurd. Just dismissing it with a hand wave isn't really helpful.

Because it has been the same argument right from the Window opening, it's closed, Mata(despite almost any club in the world being willing to sign him) went nowhere. Been over it, 1000 times. Also, the post was posed to someone else who pondered again, why Mourinho was so willing to let Mata go.
 
People should probably put the tabloid stories down

 

[Snakebauer007]

 
What's dumb about it?  That Mourinho would engage in a personal feud with an excellent Spanish national team player for no apparent reason?

Is that the same Casillas who ancelotti has riding pine? One perspective for Jose and Chelsea, one perspective for anyone else.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Because it has been the same argument right from the Window opening, it's closed, Mata(despite almost any club in the world being willing to sign him) went nowhere. Been over it, 1000 times. Also, the post was posed to someone else who pondered again, why Mourinho was so willing to let Mata go.
 
People should probably put the tabloid stories down

 
Look, some of us don't know as much about the club as you do, and it's worth it to actually discuss some of these issues instead of saying we've been all over this. I don't know Jose's history with Spanish team players, so when a point is made you don't agree with, you're not helping by just calling it trash and moving on. I want to learn more, you're the fan here, so you could help with that.

 

[Snakebauer007]

 
Look, some of us don't know as much about the club as you do, and it's worth it to actually discuss some of these issues instead of saying we've been all over this. I don't know Jose's history with Spanish team players, so when a point is made you don't agree with, you're not helping by just calling it trash and moving on. I want to learn more, you're the fan here, so you could help with that.

Yeah great if reasonable points of discussion are brought up, Jose playing world police against The Spanish National Team does not qualify. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah great if reasonable points of discussion are brought up, Jose playing world police against The Spanish National Team does not qualify. 

 
Dude, some of us don't know what's "reasonable." Frankly I've heard of crazier crap than that in soccer. Just indulge me.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Is that the same Casillas who ancelotti has riding pine? One perspective for Jose and Chelsea, one perspective for anyone else.

 
Ancelloti has also suggested he'll play Casillas in the CL.  He's said he's had two outstanding keepers and needs to play both of them.  It's not like when Mourinho was there, took swipes at Casillas in public, and made it clear he wouldn't play him.  It's also worth noting that Del Bosque is choosing Casillas over Lopez, so the idea that Lopez is clearly superior to Casillas at this point isn't exactly settled.
 
But sure, there's no rift between Mourinho and the Spanish national team.  I'm sure that's why Mata, Torres, and Azpilicueta were all dropped.  Or why Ramos told Florentino Perez he was leaving if Mourinho didn't.
 
You can cover your eyes and ears and pretend that Mourinho isn't polarizing, or that he isn't a difficult personality, but he is.  He's also incredibly effective at winning trophies.  No one except you seems to think he should be canonized, but at the same time, no one's complaining about his behavior.  We're trying to explain the way Mata is being handled, and looking at parallels with his handling of players while he was at Real Madrid.  That you think this is controversial in any way is what stands out here.

 

[Snakebauer007]

Mata isn't fit, and by the way isn't complaining about anything, which suggests he doesn't disagree with it. He played 800 moreinutes than any other Chelsea field player last season and has battled minor injuries this summer, theres no reason, especially with the depth at his spot to rush him in. if Jose really didnt want him, unlike Torres, he could have offloaded him(for huge money) in a second. Also, Torres has not been dropped, even though his performances suggest he should have been by now, he just started the Supercup.

 

[Snakebauer007]

Well, Mikel played ok.

 

[Snakebauer007]

Sometimes when the opposition scores you tip your cap and say nice goal, sometimes it's a glaring mistake by an individual or poor keeping, and more rare: almost every player on the pitch chips in and makes mistakes:

http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2013/9/16/4734602/everton-vs-chelsea-naismith-goal-analysis

 

[SoxFanInCali]

First home defeat for Chelsea in the Champions League since before Mourinho's first go-around.

 

[soxfan121]

Jose is trolling Roman, losing unimportant but high-profile games early in the season to force a temper tantrum. Given how fucking brilliant Jose is, he's planned all of this out and it'll end with him getting Roman's yacht as compensation per some obscure clause in his agreement to return to Roman's Crazytown. 
 
Or, they just need to learn each other's names and get used to playing together. 

 

[Snakebauer007]

Reason number 538276 not to loan your most dynamic center forward out

 

[soxfan121]

 

[sachmoney]

Did Sir Alex Ferguson pass on his gum to Mourinho?

 

[DLew On Roids]

Chelsea could really use an extra creative attacker here. Too bad they don't have one avail--oh.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

So Torres just had his best game in about 3 years

 

[eddiew112]

Very impressive performance last night by Chelsea's "B" team at the Emirates. The team they fielded last night could probably challenge for top 4. 

 

[Luis Taint]

Chelsea coming up small

 

[Stanley Steamer]

West Brom looks strong on set pieces, and are well packed in.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

Bailed out at the end by Andre Marriner. Soft doesn't even begin to describe.....

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Brutal penalty call

 

[SocrManiac]

That's a disgusting.

 

[Luis Taint]

Unreal

 

[teddykgb]

Completely gifted point.  Unreal.  Nothing OK about that.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

And narratives like Jose's home unbeaten streak continue. More BS.
I root for Chelsea, but I wish there was more football and less intrigue. I guess it comes with the territory-- West London, Russian oligarch, no longer Special One. They are a collection of stars, unbalanced by nature, yet to develop into a solid unit. Both goals today were lucky. They have been effectively neutralized by two mid-table sides in a week.
Great game by West Brom though. There's a team to get behind.

 

[soxfan121]

Which player did Carlo Ancellotti want to have killed?
 
 

 According to an interview the current Real Madrid boss gave to The Times this week, he was so frustrated with one of his Blues stars that he actually tried to murder him:
“We've never had any problems with the players, just one time at Chelsea. One player didn't show respect and I tried to kill him but it wasn't possible.
“The player is the property of the club and sometimes you cannot do what you want.”
 

 

[Stanley Steamer]

Time for a bump. I guess without Snakebauer, there is no Chelsea thread.
An accomplished performance today, one that they might have edged, but a draw suits both sides. I thought it was engaging through most of the match, and I think the ref got most of the decisions right, especially with the melodramatics from both sides. Mikel deserved a yellow, not a red. Those clammering for a penalty on Walcott haven't got it right at all, imo. Based on the lack of ruthlessness on display, the other title contenders shouldn't fear either of these squads. Chelsea can still win it, but Arsenal will need to rally to maintain their challenge. Man City seems the favorite, with Liverpool liking their odds. In any case, the race is so much more wide open this year than in any time in recent memory. Each team has flaws, and I'm excited to see who can pull it out (as long as it's not United). Merry Christmas!

 

[soxfan121]

There's been some small Chelsea discussions in (weirdly) the Everton thread and other places but the lack of chatter is mostly due to the return of watching paint dry, I mean Jose Ball. And I loves me some Jose. But tactically, he's paint drying. Get a lead, squat on it, counter. Grind out results. And if you ignore his mind game attempts, there's not much there, there - ya know?
 
I'm shocked there aren't more photoshopped images of Michael Essien with a fork sticking out of him. Jose wants a new Makelele.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

I'm starting to think Jose is instructing his team not to score when 1-0 up, so they learn the mental toughness to grind out results. In that case, having Eto'o or Torres up front is a solid plan.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Just looked at the live table. Chelsea and Arsenal are currently sitting on the same number of goals scored and conceded. Wouldn't have guessed that. 

 

[tmracht]

Yeah Chelsea is at about 1.85 goals a game, Arsenal at about 1.95, Everton is hanging in at 1.63 which is even more amazing.  But those three have all given up 1gpg or slightly less.  Only teams to still be under the 20 goal against mark.
 
You look at City at 54 goals through 19 and its just crazy to think they are bagging an extra goal a game over Arse/Chelsea while still being extremely tough to score against. Only pool is even close in Goals Scored and they are hovering in mid 40s.
 
Chelsea certainly hasn't played all that differently statistically compared to last year. They were a 1.95/1.03 team last year in goals scored/allowed.  So they may have scored a slightly lower rate but not all that far off. The style may be slower, but if any of the strikers could have put a ball in the ocean they woulda been right at or above last seasons record.  Say what you will but this team would look totally different if Lukaku comes back next year and plays like he has for Everton this season.

 

[Zomp]

You know, I feel for Juan Mata.  He hasn't done anything wrong yet gets subbed out at the 50th minute mark and is clearly agitated...but then you see Oscar come on the field and, dive aside, completely dominate the game.  Maybe Jose knows what he's doing?

 

[tmracht]

Yeah its hard to say how he should be playing over Oscar. He's in such fine form.

 

[Seven Costanza]

I remarked to my Blue better half yesterday that it simply shouldn't be allowed that a team is able to sub in talent the likes of Oscar and Willian.  Jesus they bossed after they came on.  An embarrassment of riches. 

 

[PedroSpecialK]

De Bruyne wants out according to his agent.

 

[bosox4283]

Do Chelsea fans think the club will end up selling Courtois? I'd love for him to stay at Atletico, but I don't think Atleti has the money to pay what Chelsea will want for him. He's incredible and only getting better.
 
Here's a save from today's match against Valencia:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8DXL_Dp8QI

 

[soxfan121]

Poor Hull - 55 minutes of great defensive effort is shoved aside by a slick, skillful goal by Hazard. 

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Matić confirmed, rumored to be ~€25m
 
Outside of a striker, Chelsea get what they most need - as well as a long-term replacement for Lampard.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Sell the player for €5m, buy him back a couple years later for €25m.  Nice piece of Roman business.
 
On the field, though, good acquisition for Chelsea.  I haven't really seen Matic play other than highlight videos but people seem to rate him highly and its a low bar to improve on their other options in the holding role.  
 
Also, another midfielder heavily linked to ManU goes elsewhere.  At least they got Fellaini!

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Matic is not a replacement for Lampard. He is a DM. He can pass and shoot, but he'll never be the offensive force that Lamps was.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Yeah that's my bad, I meant more his replacement in a deeper-lying midfield role. With the attacking mids Chelsea have, they can get Mikel-esque attacking out of Matić and be more than fine. Really, I guess Mikel would be the guy he supplants long-term.

 

[Williams Head Case]

Woohooo! Solid win at the Bridge, I too hope Moyes stays foreverrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Salah to Chelsea
 
Rodgers/Ayre can't close a deal worth shit it seems.

 

[SidelineCameras]

As a Gooner, I found Wenger's annual complaining about the January transfer window to be embarrassing. I can't figure out if Jose's response is equally embarrassing, hysterical, or both: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25888512
 
 

 "When he says this is not fair, I think what is not fair is that his team always has the best days to play," said Mourinho. "This week, a week without midweek games, what everybody wants to do is to play earlier to have more time to rest for the next week.
 
"This is not fair, and when you go to the fixtures during the season, it's never fair, because they always get the right time to rest, the right time to play."

 

[OilCanMDS]

Manchester United's official twitter account confirmed the Mata deal is done.
 
https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/426821840447606785

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

As a Gooner, I found Wenger's annual complaining about the January transfer window to be embarrassing.

 
This, a thousand times this. Just SHUT UP, Arsene - the only people who benefit from Wenger's whining aren't associated with Arsenal. (There's an old saying in professional golf that 90% of the people listening to you describe your round in minute detail don't care what you shot, and the other 10% wish it was worse - that's basically Wenger when he goes on like this.)

 

[soxfan121]

The corpse of Michael Essien has been sold for an undisclosed amount to AC Milan.

 

[DLew On Roids]

The corpse of Michael Essien has been sold for an undisclosed amount to the corpse of AC Milan.

 
Sounds like a marriage made in heaven.