Cheesesteaks vs. Chowdah Part I - The Sixers/Celtics Series Thread

LondonSox

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Will Jaylen’s hammy heal at all if he keeps playing like this? He was gutsy and excellent in limited time but he’s clearly playing hurt. It could make sense to rest him for game 3 if it means he’s not limping after dunks (or worse) in the rest of the series.

Hopefully it’s just residual soreness and he’s back to playing 40 minutes by game 4/5.
I was surprised he played, I think it spoke to how much Stevens wanted to win. I was surprised how much he played esp still getting treatment, seems really risky to me.
But got away with it so shrug
 

Eddie Jurak

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I was surprised he played, I think it spoke to how much Stevens wanted to win. I was surprised how much he played esp still getting treatment, seems really risky to me.
But got away with it so shrug
I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see him again until game 5.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Will Jaylen’s hammy heal at all if he keeps playing like this? He was gutsy and excellent in limited time but he’s clearly playing hurt. It could make sense to rest him for game 3 if it means he’s not limping after dunks (or worse) in the rest of the series.

Hopefully it’s just residual soreness and he’s back to playing 40 minutes by game 4/5.
Jaylen says it's a little sore, but that so long as he stays diligent with the hamstring, he shouldn't miss any games. http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/post-050318-brown-makes-explosive-return-sparks-celtics-game-2-comeback?sf188819867=1
 

TripleOT

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Philly started Game 2 hitting 6 of their first 9 three pointers. They hit only 7 out of their last 24 after that hot start. Hopefully they don't figure out that going inside against the Cs might be a more effective strategy than clanging threes.

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Toe Nash

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These 2 games were great but the real test is coming up. Can they take how they play at home on the road in the playoffs? So far, they haven't shown they can.
The better question is can Philly win in the Garden. So far, they haven't shown that they can.

This game felt different to me than the 2008 Lakers comeback. In 08 I actually thought they had a good shot to come back; they were playing well and getting open looks but they weren't hitting them until all of a sudden they started falling. Last night it wasn't just that Philly hit their shots early; they were suffocating on D for the first quarter and a half and Boston had a really hard time getting good shots off.

I didn't notice what changed but last night's comeback seemed more improbable.
 

lars10

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The better question is can Philly win in the Garden. So far, they haven't shown that they can.

This game felt different to me than the 2008 Lakers comeback. In 08 I actually thought they had a good shot to come back; they were playing well and getting open looks but they weren't hitting them until all of a sudden they started falling. Last night it wasn't just that Philly hit their shots early; they were suffocating on D for the first quarter and a half and Boston had a really hard time getting good shots off.

I didn't notice what changed but last night's comeback seemed more improbable.
I think partly that that kind of intensity on D was unsustainable. Philly may have tired themselves out and lost their legs a bit which is why the 3s weren’t falling late. They also weren’t getting back on D during that run.
 

uk_sox_fan

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I fully expect the Sixers to come out and bomb us early, get down big, make a big comeback and then lose a close game at the end - and the national narrative will return to how amazing the sixers are.
You almost nailed it - good thing you missed on the last bit!

Anyone think that Simmons was just trying to shut up the Garden crowd saying he’s not a real rookie?
 

DJnVa

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Agreed. Game 3 can't be a blowout though. The Sixers are expected to win, but they can't look like they looked in Milwaukee.
Sixers have been expected to win every game.

And, just messing with you, but however they looked in Milwaukee, they still won the series.
 

BaseballJones

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Sixers have been expected to win every game.

And, just messing with you, but however they looked in Milwaukee, they still won the series.
Yep, the Celtics just need to win at home and they're all set. Would be nice to steal one in Philly, but if not, come back to Boston and win. I know this is obvious but still. If you have HCA and can defend your home court, you're not going to lose series'. That's why HCA is so critical, especially with young teams filled with guys who might not be considered "stars" (who traditionally do better at home than on the road).

Goes without saying, but Boston is in very good shape right now.
 

Red Averages

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Philly better hope they can shoot >40% from 3 or that the Celtics shoot <35% or they'll be at risk of a loss again. I wouldn't be surprised if Philly actually came out and were so amped up/tense that they missed a bunch early in game 3. All of the pressure is on them and as we've seen they have a bit of a frontrunners attitude when things are going right and when things roll over on them.
 

ALiveH

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Hopefully this is the sort of loss that crushes Philly's soul, but I have a feeling they'll come out strong. The strategy of banging Embiid and making him work definitely wears him down by the end of the game.
 

lovegtm

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Hopefully this is the sort of loss that crushes Philly's soul, but I have a feeling they'll come out strong. The strategy of banging Embiid and making him work definitely wears him down by the end of the game.
Embiid's aerobic fitness is shockingly poor given that his lower body has been healthy the entire year.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Who's the second rookie?
I think London meant playoff rookies.

Which is a good point. Remember last year, when Jaylen couldn't get run in the first part of the playoffs because he didn't make his rotations and wasn't used to the intensity? And remember how Jaylen said how big of a learning experience that was?

The Sixers are just getting a taste of being in a NBA series where the talent is pretty even. They are making a ton of mental mistakes, particularly when it comes to their scheme in trying to eliminate some of the mismatches the Cs can get.

To my eye, the Cs can better shots on a more consistent basis than the Sixers. The Cs went down in the first part of the game because they were turning the ball over a lot. When they stopped turning the ball over and PHI started missing their long three pointers, the game turned.

BTW, here's a post that breaks down the 2nd quarter rally: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/5/4/17317476/boston-celtics-blitz-philadelphia-76ers-in-the-2nd-anatomy-of-a-26-8-run-jaylen-brown-terry-rozier.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I feel like that one play where old man Horford waltzed right past young Embiid to the rim illustrates really well why traditional, tall Cs with high centers of gravity — even ones as skilled and athletic as Embiid — can often be liabilities in today’s NBA. It’s just physics that it’s really hard to show and recover defensively when your legs are that long. (I’m gonna show that clip to my colleague the next time he asks me why silly Kerr is playing 6’-9” low-slung Kevon Looney so many minutes at C instead of McGee or Zaza.)
 

joe dokes

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Last night it wasn't just that Philly hit their shots early; they were suffocating on D for the first quarter and a half and Boston had a really hard time getting good shots off.
My worried thought in the 1st half was that the 76ers had figured out something defensively. I wonder, though, if they were just flying around on defense because their own offense was humming along. And when the offense started to grind (or when the Celtics got their own defensive shit together) the 76er defense began to lag.

I also thought Monroe's brief 1st half time was important. The speed at which the 76ers were playing defense wasn't really useful in dealing with Monroe's game. I know he only took 4 shots, and that the lead didn't immediately start shrinking upon his entry, but the tidal wave seemed to lessen a bit. (At least that's how it *felt* through my TV).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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My worried thought in the 1st half was that the 76ers had figured out something defensively. I wonder, though, if they were just flying around on defense because their own offense was humming along. And when the offense started to grind (or when the Celtics got their own defensive shit together) the 76er defense began to lag.

I also thought Monroe's brief 1st half time was important. The speed at which the 76ers were playing defense wasn't really useful in dealing with Monroe's game. I know he only took 4 shots, and that the lead didn't immediately start shrinking upon his entry, but the tidal wave seemed to lessen a bit. (At least that's how it *felt* through my TV).
As for your first paragraph, PHI did switch Simmons on to Rozier, which had the effect of shutting TR down for that first part, and Reddick onto Smart. This is the way I would play it but Marcus came up big on the offensive end (who would have thought that) and then PHI started to turn the ball over and missed jumpers, both leading to break outs and transition points where PHI wasn't able to set its defense (this is pointed out at the link I posted earlier that breaks down the run).

As for the 2nd, I agree with you. In fact, I'd be playing Monroe every time Amir Johnson came into the game.
 

TripleOT

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Rozier missed a bunch of open shots early, as did some of his teammates. Maybe Simmons' length bothered Rozier to start. Once the Sixers got momentum, they ramped up the defense, overplaying when the Cs were trying to run offense up top, and got some turnovers that fueled their 21 point lead.

The Cs started counterpunching after the Sixers started turning the ball over, began missing some makeable shots, and started clanging contested threes. Usually a competent PG will stem the bleeding when a lead is dissipating, but Simmons did the opposite, turning the ball over three times, while failing to get his teammates set up for high percentage shots.
 

teddykgb

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If there were a drinking game related to Sam Ray Not's ability to work the Warriors into one of his posts I'd die within a week.

The most interesting thing about the game to me is trying to identify what the Celtics did to make the aggressive defense Philly was playing unravel. They were making things incredibly hard for the Celtics to get into their sets and get the ball moving until the Celtics built some momentum and then it was like playing Game 1 again. Maybe it was fatigue, as was suggested, but it came so early in the game and lasted even around the quarter breaks. Maybe the Celtics changed something or maybe they just weren't moving well and it's less about PHI and more about our team executing better.

Also a tremendous hat tip to Monroe who came into that game and breathed some life into the C's at a critical time.
 

riboflav

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If there were a drinking game related to Sam Ray Not's ability to work the Warriors into one of his posts I'd die within a week.

The most interesting thing about the game to me is trying to identify what the Celtics did to make the aggressive defense Philly was playing unravel. They were making things incredibly hard for the Celtics to get into their sets and get the ball moving until the Celtics built some momentum and then it was like playing Game 1 again. Maybe it was fatigue, as was suggested, but it came so early in the game and lasted even around the quarter breaks. Maybe the Celtics changed something or maybe they just weren't moving well and it's less about PHI and more about our team executing better.

Also a tremendous hat tip to Monroe who came into that game and breathed some life into the C's at a critical time.
The Celtics got stops (this was the key) and pushed the pace to climb back in. They ran very few sets during the comeback.

EDIT: And a warm thank you to Brown for not taking a timeout, allowing the run to continue unabated.
 

teddykgb

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The Celtics got stops (this was the key) and pushed the pace to climb back in. They ran very few sets during the comeback.

EDIT: And a warm thank you to Brown for not taking a timeout, allowing the run to continue unabated.
Yes, this was definitely a lot of it. But Philly came out and really focused on pin down screens to free their shooters and really gave us trouble as they got some of their shooters open while we tried to deal with switching the screen or not. Really had us scrambling defensively but all of a sudden it changed. I'd need to really rewatch again to see what adjustments we made to combat it because it was giving the Celtics a lot of trouble
 

southshoresoxfan

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What shocked me last night was how ghastly 76ers transition defense was. That’s an effort thing, and there were times multiple 76ers were just waltzing back on D and it led to easy buckets.
 

Gash Prex

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Is Vegas just trolling now? Sixers 9.5 Point favorited in game 3

I’m in Vegas - wondering if I should take that line. We don’t lose by 9 very often
 

riboflav

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What shocked me last night was how ghastly 76ers transition defense was. That’s an effort thing, and there were times multiple 76ers were just waltzing back on D and it led to easy buckets.
An underrated story line is that Embiid is not in good shape right now.
 

JCizzle

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Is Vegas just trolling now? Sixers 9.5 Point favorited in game 3

I’m in Vegas - wondering if I should take that line. We don’t lose by 9 very often
Game 3 in Milwaukee. I wouldn't fuck with that line. We're not closing a 22 point gap on the road if we start out slow again.
 

riboflav

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Speaking of Embiid, Horford is abusing him.

Horford has 21 points on 37 possessions (36.5/100 more than his average) against Embiid on 8-10 FG plus 5 assists. Boston's oRTG on these possessions is an off-the-charts, 159.4 - this is murder. Horford should be brought up on charges.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is Vegas just trolling now? Sixers 9.5 Point favorited in game 3

I’m in Vegas - wondering if I should take that line. We don’t lose by 9 very often
They’ve lost by 9+ in 2 of their 3 road games with the lone exception being where they had a furious comeback after being down big. Celtics need to prove they can play a complete game on the road.
 

riboflav

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Want more?

Embiid is defensing 7 shot attempts per game at the rim in the series and Boston is shooting 57% on those attempts. By comparison, Miami shot 30% at the rim vs. Embiid.

With apologies to the Boston media and a decent sect of the SoSH game threaders, the Horford effect is real.
 

riboflav

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Also, I don't have time to list them out right now, but Philly's offense plays at a much higher tempo with Embiid sitting.
 

Kliq

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Want more?

Embiid is defensing 7 shot attempts per game at the rim in the series and Boston is shooting 57% on those attempts. By comparison, Miami shot 30% at the rim vs. Embiid.

With apologies to the Boston media and a decent sect of the SoSH game threaders, the Horford effect is real.
I saw a lot of very smart people, including Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, and a few others, placing Embiid high on their DPOY ballots, a lot of second place spots behind Gobert. I haven't watched a ton of Sixers basketball this season; so I just figured he was an intimidating defender; but watching him in this series he has been a disaster. He is blowing rotations and getting beat off the dribble consistently. Maybe it is a conditioning/injury issue, and maybe it is effort. I think he has great physical tools, but he doesn't seem to have the basketball IQ (yet) of an elite defensive player and a player like Horford has really been able to exploit that.
 

TFisNEXT

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I saw a lot of very smart people, including Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, and a few others, placing Embiid high on their DPOY ballots, a lot of second place spots behind Gobert. I haven't watched a ton of Sixers basketball this season; so I just figured he was an intimidating defender; but watching him in this series he has been a disaster. He is blowing rotations and getting beat off the dribble consistently. Maybe it is a conditioning/injury issue, and maybe it is effort. I think he has great physical tools, but he doesn't seem to have the basketball IQ (yet) of an elite defensive player and a player like Horford has really been able to exploit that.
He looks utterly lost out there. I do wonder if a lot of it is conditioning right now. He looks slow as hell. But even that said, as you already mentioned, his knowledge of the defense looks shaky. It could easily be a couple of really bad games and maybe he didn't study Boston's offense enough...but so far he isn't reminding anyone of KG defending the paint.
 

Big John

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Embid is technically not a rookie, but he only played 31 games last year. And he left Kansas after his freshman year.
 

nighthob

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I saw a lot of very smart people, including Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, and a few others, placing Embiid high on their DPOY ballots, a lot of second place spots behind Gobert. I haven't watched a ton of Sixers basketball this season; so I just figured he was an intimidating defender; but watching him in this series he has been a disaster. He is blowing rotations and getting beat off the dribble consistently. Maybe it is a conditioning/injury issue, and maybe it is effort. I think he has great physical tools, but he doesn't seem to have the basketball IQ (yet) of an elite defensive player and a player like Horford has really been able to exploit that.
Embiid has too much Dwight Howard in him for my comfort. He's a huge front-runner prone to too much clowning, and takes cheap shots when things don't go his way. But he's a laugh riot on Twitter, so...
 

LondonSox

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Who's the second rookie?
Embiid while not a rookie had 31 games before this season and 60 ish this year so his experience is rookie like.
Young inexperienced kids would have been more accurate but I think the point is little changed.

Embiid has so much to learn and hasn't even been able to practice and started late.
In hindsight I'm not shocked he's been confused. The Celtics have done a great job dragging him away from the rim.

His confusion on rotations etc is a bit odd as he's usually the general out there. I don't know if the mask is a minor issue here too (limited peripheral) but bottom line the Celtics have done a great job making him confused defensively.
 

TFisNEXT

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Embiid while not a rookie had 31 games before this season and 60 ish this year so his experience is rookie like.
Young inexperienced kids would have been more accurate but I think the point is little changed.

Embiid has so much to learn and hasn't even been able to practice and started late.
In hindsight I'm not shocked he's been confused. The Celtics have done a great job dragging him away from the rim.

His confusion on rotations etc is a bit odd as he's usually the general out there. I don't know if the mask is a minor issue here too (limited peripheral) but bottom line the Celtics have done a great job making him confused defensively.
It seems like a lot of the young guys (including Celtics youngsters too) have been playing much better at home and a lot worse on the road too. It wouldn't shock me if Embiid looks like a different player in game 3. Maybe the home/road split is something that wanes with more experience...esp in the bright lights of the playoffs.
 

terrynever

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You guys know there's going to be a fight tomorrow, right? Philly got pushed around and never fought back in Boston. Unless the modern game has changed more than I know, Philly will send one of its backups after Morris, probably a collision of some sort, and then some baiting. Richaun Holmes or even ex-Celtic Amir Johnson.

Figuring this will happen in the second quarter. I could be wrong.
 

DJnVa

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Man, I don't know if that's smart at all. Philly should absolutely win tomorrow--at home, etc.

If there's some altercation who knows who gets caught up in it. Amir and Morris go after each other but somehow it spills into Shane Larkin and Ben Simmons or Monroe and Embiid and the Sixers lose that trade.

The "favorite" should want no alterations of the conditions of the game.
 

Ed Hillel

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I know he’s probably going to explode in game 3, but this is one of my favorite memes:
ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1525461494.362727.jpg
 

benhogan

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You guys know there's going to be a fight tomorrow, right? Philly got pushed around and never fought back in Boston. Unless the modern game has changed more than I know, Philly will send one of its backups after Morris, probably a collision of some sort, and then some baiting. Richaun Holmes or even ex-Celtic Amir Johnson.

Figuring this will happen in the second quarter. I could be wrong.
If Philly goes this route I'd suggest a guy like TJ McConnell getting chippy with Rozier or Smart. TJ probably annoys the heck out of most players, the fans would go wild and he really isn't a key 76er piece. Celtics lean very heavily on Rozier/Smart and one of them might be baited.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I dunno, it would be a pretty bold move to sacrifice their most effective point guard like that.
 

reggiecleveland

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I saw a lot of very smart people, including Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, and a few others, placing Embiid high on their DPOY ballots, a lot of second place spots behind Gobert. I haven't watched a ton of Sixers basketball this season; so I just figured he was an intimidating defender; but watching him in this series he has been a disaster. He is blowing rotations and getting beat off the dribble consistently. Maybe it is a conditioning/injury issue, and maybe it is effort. I think he has great physical tools, but he doesn't seem to have the basketball IQ (yet) of an elite defensive player and a player like Horford has really been able to exploit that.
I have been giving credit to the Cs O, but you may be right. Maybe it is fitness as others mentioned.