It's also true that college has changed so much so fast that it's really a new and different landscape for everyone. It's not like Kyle Whittingham has four decades of experience dealing with modern college football.
Chapel Bill: We're on to Carolina
- Thread starter Mystic Merlin
- Start date
True. However, current coaches have been evolving with it. And they have extensive networks on the coaching, recruiting, and fundraising sides to handle it.
This is virgin territory for Bill.
Again, I’m not staking out a prediction about his success. But I do think those saying that he’ll crush it because he’s Bill and “count the rings” aren’t acknowledging the level of challenge here.
It will be interesting to see what type of player chooses to come there. Is it your description, is it top flight talent who really don't need Bill to get to the next level or is it that guy in between those levels - the guy that has a shot at being drafted or getting to the NFL as an undrafted player. If you're on that bubble it would be enticing to go play for the coach that probably has the best NFL contacts out there right?
I think Belichick may or may not succeed. I do think he's going to be the best on-field coach every week and that is not nothing. Saban dominated because he was both actually a good coach AND he had the ability to recruit at one of the few powerhouses that had huge advantages in that area. He left in part because a lot of those advantages were slipping away and he wasn't interested in learning/doing the new methods. Bill has that same good coach advantage, the question will be if he can navigate the other areas to bring in talent, a real concern everywhere.
All of these are true.
I highlighted PayRod’s post earlier about it being harder to be a demanding coach in college with NIL/transfer portal.
I think that has way, way more to do with Saban retiring than everyone here seems to think.
It will be fascinating to see how Belichick evolves/adapts to coaching kids.
It seems to me like people—some here but also in the media—are straining to fire off hot takes about this move:
“Bill is DELUSIONAL if he believes he can make his schtick work at the college level!”
“It’s EMBARRASSING that Bill has to go to college because no one else will hire him!”
“Bill is giving a GIANT FUCK YOU to the NFL by giving up on setting the record and heading to UNC!”
(there are also some hot takes about how great he will be out there)
For my part, I think it’s kind of a slightly esoteric decision born of the fact that Bill is older, owners are kind of scared of him and, yeah, probably they he has a Lombardi/Patricia bubble around him.
But I also think Bill is 100% sincere in that he is hoping to create a new kind of model given the huge change in college sports because of NIL and the transfer portal.
I think there’s a strong chance that this is not a runaway success or flop but rather kind of a minor failure – in part because I can completely see the most talented college players not really wanting to play for him and get their asses kicked while much less talented guys go to UNC and get coached up to become the next Duron Harmon. At the same time, I also kind of could imagine this being the right idea but too early – ie, other coaches picking up on his college pipeline idea further down the line and making it work, maybe building off some things he did.
Regardless of how it works out, I think it’s kind of cool that Bill is doing something off the beaten path and on his own terms.
“Bill is DELUSIONAL if he believes he can make his schtick work at the college level!”
“It’s EMBARRASSING that Bill has to go to college because no one else will hire him!”
“Bill is giving a GIANT FUCK YOU to the NFL by giving up on setting the record and heading to UNC!”
(there are also some hot takes about how great he will be out there)
For my part, I think it’s kind of a slightly esoteric decision born of the fact that Bill is older, owners are kind of scared of him and, yeah, probably they he has a Lombardi/Patricia bubble around him.
But I also think Bill is 100% sincere in that he is hoping to create a new kind of model given the huge change in college sports because of NIL and the transfer portal.
I think there’s a strong chance that this is not a runaway success or flop but rather kind of a minor failure – in part because I can completely see the most talented college players not really wanting to play for him and get their asses kicked while much less talented guys go to UNC and get coached up to become the next Duron Harmon. At the same time, I also kind of could imagine this being the right idea but too early – ie, other coaches picking up on his college pipeline idea further down the line and making it work, maybe building off some things he did.
Regardless of how it works out, I think it’s kind of cool that Bill is doing something off the beaten path and on his own terms.
Perhaps it’s all laid out in the McAffee interview he did. But could you summarize this path that Bill wants to chart.
I have to admit, at first glance it rings kinda hollow to me. Like, most P4 programs have *extensive* training, recovery and nutrition regimens for these players. They have staff to assist players and their families in dealing with agents, scouts, contracts, etc.
I’m sure there’s a ton Bill can add to that given his decades of NFL experience. But I guess I’m struggling to understand just how novel his approach can really be.
*edit* Plus, I really think he still has to win a lot of games. Otherwise this is just some IMG Academy type training program.
It is really difficult to go down a level to coach. I have done it, and know it is hard. Bill began as a nfl coach and has never been in the college game. The community is different and not friendly to a guy coming down. There are things, tricks he will not thought of, especially when it comes to recruiting.
I am really puling for him, but I don't think it works out.
I am really puling for him, but I don't think it works out.
I tend to agree.
I think Bill realizes this as well, hence the lowered buyout this summer.
It might be a fun challenge, but I think he is mainly doing it because he's not in demand at the NFL level. If in the next 1-2 years the NFL comes calling, Bill is going to answer.
The Nepo hire thing does rub the wrong way, assuming that still happening (and the reason why he is doing this).
Off to a good start -- keeps a top QB recruit:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/42965327/qb-bryce-baker-sticks-unc-praises-belichick-nfl-style
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/42965327/qb-bryce-baker-sticks-unc-praises-belichick-nfl-style
BB reached out to the Jets for their HC opening prior to taking the Carolina job.
Source - Bill Belichick inquired about Jets coaching vacancy - ESPN
Source - Bill Belichick inquired about Jets coaching vacancy - ESPN
"Hey - would Woody be willing to fire himself into the sun if I agreed to coach the Jets? No? Ok thanks!"
Again I was equiv of D2 assistant and a summer league pro coach, so I am not he same. But, love it or not (and I do) It is fucking hard. Maybe the hardest, since your success is easily measured and everyone else in your field is successful only if you fail. I know some big business guys and they are cutthroat, but it is possible if the market etc, is right everybody, or more than 1 wins. The way the role of coach, and the depth of detail in big programs, even in highschool requires incredible energy and is a young man's job now, IMHO. I retired as a teacher and a coach recently, and have had some intriguing options to coach, but I am not sure at almost 60 if I can handle the 12 month always front of your mind obsession. The petty jealousies can be mind blowing. In my mind Bill will have a ton of people at NC who want him to fail, at least in the NFL he probably knew who they were.
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It doesn't appear to be. All the local Carolina folks say it isn't (but that the hope is Steve will come be the DC), it's always been a 1 source story, and while Connolly had a lot of stuff, he also was off on some other details in the same report (he said the GM Bill demanded needed a buyout from another school for example).... maybe Bill did ask for it, but it feels more like Bill said he wanted to bring Steve and somebody changed that to "HCIW" when they talked to Connolly.
He may have even just asked ‘Is it possible for me to hire Steve’ - public universities sometimes actually have rules that make that kind of hire problematic, he may have just wanted to know if it was possible and not saying it would happen
who knows for now
No worries. I just took offense to thinking it was *delusional* to think he could outcoach ACC coaches on the field. I agree that it's a tossup at this point to know if he can recruit and navigate the (some) unseen landmines of a totally different landscape (mostly off the field) than he is accustomed.
I find the early 1mil buyout interesting and if someone more knowledgeable than me could walk me through it, I'd appreciate it.
Edit: Why would either party, especially UNC, agree to a stipulation that could mean Bill is gone just 7 months from now? And, if it looks like Bill has one foot out the door, why would any college player want to come? Also, doesn't such a cheap buyout mean that UNC could wipe its hands of him very soon?
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Not on the same level but I have recently gone from coaching high school varsity at age 47 to coaching my son's sixth grade travel team at about to turn 49 and I am looking for all exits and dreaming of golf and mid-afternoon margaritas. I can't imagine the year-round cycle pressure cooker being 60-ish to 70-something. My wife asked me in the same phrase you used: "do you miss basketball on the front of your mind every morning you awake and before you fall asleep?" "No, I'm too damn old." I should have said I am not Pitino or Calhoun. Also, if someone wants to pay me those dollars I can try.
It will be interesting to see how it works out.
I think BB will have modest success at UNC but won’t stay long enough to build the program up. Couple/three years, maybe. I suspect he’ll attract some higher quality players than UNC usually gets who will want to be coached by BB and leverage his network of NFL contacts. Most of the success will come from portal guys who aren’t on track for whatever reason to achieve their NFL dreams. The high school recruiting will improve some too, but if he doesn’t stick around long enough, they’ll transfer and be playing for another school by the time they develop.
Maybe his status as a legendary coach will bring in more NIL money from boosters too. Who knows.
I hope he succeeds.
I think BB will have modest success at UNC but won’t stay long enough to build the program up. Couple/three years, maybe. I suspect he’ll attract some higher quality players than UNC usually gets who will want to be coached by BB and leverage his network of NFL contacts. Most of the success will come from portal guys who aren’t on track for whatever reason to achieve their NFL dreams. The high school recruiting will improve some too, but if he doesn’t stick around long enough, they’ll transfer and be playing for another school by the time they develop.
Maybe his status as a legendary coach will bring in more NIL money from boosters too. Who knows.
I hope he succeeds.
Ultimate alpha dogs like Bill Belichick are just different. I retired this summer because I could, but also because I realized that I just didn't have the same drive anymore to fight the organizational battles necessary for success (as opposed to comfortably surviving, which I could have done). Kudos to a guy like Bill who still has that desire to coach and build something, no matter how realistic his plans may turn out to be. I believe that he is genuine in seeing the UNC job as a connection to his dad's life's work, as an opportunity one more time to work with Steve (and maybe Brian), and as a chance to take a unique situation in college football history and try to do something. I see all the reasons this could fail, but I think that some folks are downplaying his potential for success, even if it's just short-term.
Targeting Scott Turner as OC.
https://footballscoop.com/news/bill-belichick-targeting-nfl-offensive-coordinator-for-north-carolina-job-per-report
https://footballscoop.com/news/bill-belichick-targeting-nfl-offensive-coordinator-for-north-carolina-job-per-report
As someone who has watched way more Carolina football in the last 15 years than is healthy for any individual, the issue hasn’t been talent.
There have been more wasted 4 and 5 star recruits that never developed or improved than I care to recount, particularly on the defensive side of the ball (Desmond Evans is still trying to figure out how to set an edge after 4 years)
Fedora was a terrible tactical coach and the team had no discipline. It got no better under Mack Brown with the added benefit of having no concept of how to manage the clock…and lord did it get worse this year with the new rules around first down clock stoppages.
So yeah, Carolina fans are ecstatic, because the outcomes have never matched the talent on the field. Heck if Belichick can just maintain the talent level, things will improve immeasurably.
Yeah I see Belichick as the opposite of Mack in a lot of ways. Mack was an excellent recruiter, but literally had nothing to do with coaching. Didn't want any part of it, and you can tell when you watch the players. That was part of Drake Maye's problem coming into the draft, the scout said he played like he had literally never been coached before....because he basically hadn't.
I see Bill as having much less natural salesman ability than Mack, but I get the feeling he will be a little more hands-on in coaching the players.
I know Bill's not gonna be there for more than a few years and he's planning his little personnel department but having a head coach and two coordinators (assuming Stephen) with a combined 2 years total of recruiting experience feels like you're setting yourself up for failure. Transfers can fill holes of course especially this year but they're not a sustainable method of building as we've seen plenty from across the country.
Bill gets his first transfer from Holy Cross of all places.
UNC Football Lands First Transfer Pledge of Bill Belichick Era
UNC Football Lands First Transfer Pledge of Bill Belichick Era
View: https://twitter.com/mzenitz/status/1868766378616094813
First big Player Personnel signing, looks like Bill is stealing away UCF's assistant AD, been there 4 years, was at App St. for 6 years running their recruitment (also had stops at Louisville and TX st.)
First big Player Personnel signing, looks like Bill is stealing away UCF's assistant AD, been there 4 years, was at App St. for 6 years running their recruitment (also had stops at Louisville and TX st.)
A couple points I haven’t seen mentioned - what players eyeing the NFL will really benefit from is Bill’s personal assessment during vetting done by scouts in the run up to the draft. We know NFL teams put stock in (some more, some less) the insight provided by college coaches. A few good words from Belichick have to very valuable. A lot of players will bet ln themselves to impress Bill and get his seal of approval.
But that’s always balanced by how much NIL cash is on the table and other personal considerations.
Also, while it’s true Saban retired instead of trying to adjust to the new reality…Nick is now free to take Bill’s calls and talk shop.
But that’s always balanced by how much NIL cash is on the table and other personal considerations.
Also, while it’s true Saban retired instead of trying to adjust to the new reality…Nick is now free to take Bill’s calls and talk shop.
Khmori House is going to UNC in the portal over FLA, OR, MI etc. If there was any doubt Steve is coming from Washington after their bowl game that probably seals it
I was wondering who was the target for Jim Mora’s tirade below -
“A simple note to the schools and coaches that have blatantly broken @NCAAFootball rules by tampering with our players in the last 24 hours," Mora wrote on X. "We do know who you are, we will pursue all avenues to hold you accountable. We are excited that we've built a program where coaches have to cheat to beat us and we will protect that program. Think hard before you tamper with our players."
Mora later added that he doesn't know how to fix the tampering issue in college football, but that "we will expose any program and coach that violates" NCAA rules. He added: "I'm 100 percent against grown men cheating the rules and teaching players horrible life lessons."
We have our answer today - Yates to Carolina. Maybe Bill is perfectly suited for college football.
“A simple note to the schools and coaches that have blatantly broken @NCAAFootball rules by tampering with our players in the last 24 hours," Mora wrote on X. "We do know who you are, we will pursue all avenues to hold you accountable. We are excited that we've built a program where coaches have to cheat to beat us and we will protect that program. Think hard before you tamper with our players."
Mora later added that he doesn't know how to fix the tampering issue in college football, but that "we will expose any program and coach that violates" NCAA rules. He added: "I'm 100 percent against grown men cheating the rules and teaching players horrible life lessons."
We have our answer today - Yates to Carolina. Maybe Bill is perfectly suited for college football.
If there was any doubt about if Belichick would get UNC more publicity, I think it was answered today when the story about the UConn DL transferring to UNC was on ESPN's top headlines....(the DL wasn't rated in ESPN's top 75 transfers)
I guess Mora's tirade had something to do with it too but still
I guess Mora's tirade had something to do with it too but still
Big news locally (northeast Bergen county) that BB was in town, recruiting at three+ private high school powerhouses.
Bill getting kids who may have otherwise gone to Rutgers is so damn par for the course for him.
You think private high school powerhouses in NJ are sending their kids to Rutgers?
The backup QB at ND who led the winning drive at the Orange Bowl last night went to Bergen Catholic.
And a few years back, Paramus Catholic had iirc the #2 HS recruit in the country, a ginormous lineman who went to Michigan.
My point is not that private high school powerhouses cannot produce genuine prospects; if anything it's the inverse: any legit talent out of a premier private high school is going to find his way to a top tier program, not Rutgers.
Since I grew up in NJ I spent way too much time on that list, several of whom are fellow alumni from my public high school, which was generally top ranked for years. We also played some names that jumped out (Ironhead Hayward, Butch Woolfolk).
But a lot of kids I knew weren’t on the list went on to major D1 powers like Ohio and Penn State (one them to NFL) and Notre Dame. None went to play ball at Rutgers, to my knowledge.
If Rutgers could retain the NJ talent, they’d be a lot better.
But a lot of kids I knew weren’t on the list went on to major D1 powers like Ohio and Penn State (one them to NFL) and Notre Dame. None went to play ball at Rutgers, to my knowledge.
If Rutgers could retain the NJ talent, they’d be a lot better.