Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

mcpickl

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Am I alone for not wanting to see Theis again in this series? I think he's been quite bad even in his 6-10 minute role and would much rather see Nesmith out there in small lineups. While Nesmith certainly isn't going to win you a game, he showed the ability to be active and make plays defensively earlier in the playoffs. Most importantly, nobody will try to throw him the ball under the basket on the other end of the court.
Theis, of course, shouldn't be playing. But the answer is easier than playing Nesmith, who also shouldn't be playing.

In game 1, Theis played 6 minutes. Grant Williams and Payton Pritchard only played 16 each. In game 2, Theis played 8 minutes by the end of the third quarter. Just change the sub patterns a bit, and those minutes can go to Grant/Pritchard.

As long as Rob is healthy enough to give them 20ish minutes, there is no reason to play anyone outside of their top 8 guys until garbage time.

Before this series started, the Celtics had played 8 playoff games in which Rob and Horford were both available. In those 8 games, Theis played a total of 2 non garbage time minutes. That was 2 minutes in game 3 against Milwaukee when Grant got into foul trouble. Other than that, 3 garbage time appearances and 4 DNPs.

Now, in a series I'd say fits his skillset the least, he's back getting minutes.

It's very weird.
 
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Sille Skrub

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The Dray love here is strange. I respect the guy and all, but he spent the night taking cheap shots at people. I honestly don't know what fucking game you guys were watching.
Agreed. This is a dude that is known for taking nut shots at opposing players. Total trash.

Sadly, if he were in green I would love the guy.
 

tbb345

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Agreed. This is a dude that is known for taking nut shots at opposing players. Total trash.

Sadly, if he were in green I would love the guy.
I would definitely stick up for him more but his whole act is truly exhausting to watch. I mean, people constantly bitch about how much Tatum complains around here…he can’t hold Draymond’s jock in that department
 

lars10

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I would definitely stick up for him more but his whole act is truly exhausting to watch. I mean, people constantly bitch about how much Tatum complains around here…he can’t hold Draymond’s jock in that department
Plus he can’t shoot.. only way he effects games now is by talking shit and cheapshotting people.. why would anyone want that on their team unless you have Curry?

edit: I love Marchand, but he’s also extremely talented.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Draymond Green is also talented at basketball, while also being terrible at shooting. Other advanced stats agree with DARKO but if you have issues with it or how it seems to overvalue Green, you know who to @ and it ain't me.

52262
 

benhogan

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Theis, of course, shouldn't be playing. But the answer is easier than playing Nesmith, who also shouldn't be playing.

In game 1, Theis played 6 minutes. Grant Williams and Payton Pritchard only played 16 each. In game 2, Theis played 8 minutes by the end of the third quarter. Just change the sub patterns a bit, and those minutes can go to Grant/Pritchard.

As long as Rob is healthy enough to give them 20ish minutes, there is no reason to play anyone outside of their top 8 guys until garbage time.

Before this series started, the Celtics had played 8 playoff games in which Rob and Horford were both available. In those 8 games, Theis played a total of 2 non garbage time minutes. That was 2 minutes in game 3 against Milwaukee when Grant got into foul trouble. Other than that, 3 garbage time appearances and 4 DNPs.

Now, in a series I'd say fits his skillset the least, he's back getting minutes.

It's very weird.
and with the additional off days it's even weirder that we are seeing Theis

in today's presser, IME alluded to making changes to the rotations and playing smaller. They need to get White in earlier
 

TripleOT

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Grant needs to find his three point stroke in Boston. He also needs to match Green’s reckless physicality, hopefully when covering Curry.
 

HomeRunBaker

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and with the additional off days it's even weirder that we are seeing Theis

in today's presser, IME alluded to making changes to the rotations and playing smaller. They need to get White in earlier
Theis saw minutes bc Ime insists on starting Horford and TL together which requires a 3rd big off the bench due to the rotations and TL’s limitations right now. This really has to change…..it should have already changed. Having said that, I felt Theis showed himself well last game with a couple big defensive plays. That block was highlight material.
Plus he can’t shoot.. only way he effects games now is by talking shit and cheapshotting people.. why would anyone want that on their team unless you have Curry?
I mean, if you watch the Warriors and don’t feel that Draymond affects the game I don’t know if there is anything further to debate. After Curry, he’s pretty clearly their second most influential player on the roster. He’s their defensive stopper on one end and their PG on the other end running their motion offense from the high post. I totally get why people would hate his style when he’s the opponent but uh yeah….can we have him?
 

chilidawg

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Theis saw minutes bc Ime insists on starting Horford and TL together which requires a 3rd big off the bench due to the rotations and TL’s limitations right now. This really has to change…..it should have already changed. Having said that, I felt Theis showed himself well last game with a couple big defensive plays. That block was highlight material.

I mean, if you watch the Warriors and don’t feel that Draymond affects the game I don’t know if there is anything further to debate. After Curry, he’s pretty clearly their second most influential player on the roster. He’s their defensive stopper on one end and their PG on the other end running their motion offense from the high post. I totally get why people would hate his style when he’s the opponent but uh yeah….can we have him?
Two good points.

Draymond is really, really good at basketball outside of shooting. He also degrades the game to the point that it starts to look like professional wrestling. It's too bad, because I like him as a player outside the theatrics.
 

lexrageorge

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How many of these games did Sam Jones play in?
3.

1981 Celtics were 1-1 against the annoying Moses Malone Rockets before winning Game 3. And 1-1 in 1974 against Kareem and the Bucks. The other times, all with Sam Jones, were 1960, 1966, and 1968.

Celtics were down 2-1 after losing Game 3 in 1957, 1958 (loss in Sam Jones' rookie season), 1962, 1984, 1985 (loss) .

Were down 2-1 after winning Game 3 in 1969 (win) and 1987 (loss).

Just an obligatory note of the times that the Bill Russell Celtics were actually behind in one of their 32 playoff series after the conclusion of a game:

1957 Finals (Games 1 and 3 vs Hawks)
1958 Finals (Games 1, 3, 5, and lost in 6 vs Hawks)
1962 Finals (Games 3 and 5 vs Lakers)
1963 Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Cincinnati Royals!)
1966 Eastern Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Royals)
1966 Finals (Game 1 against Lakers)
1967 Semi-Finals (all 5 games against the 76'ers)
1968 Eastern Semi-Finals (Game 3 against Pistons)
1968 Semi-Finals (Games 3, 4, and 5 against 76'ers when they came back from 3-1 down)
1969 Finals (Games 1, 2, 3, and 5 against Lakers)
 
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HomeRunBaker

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3.

1981 Celtics were 1-1 against the annoying Moses Malone Rockets before winning Game 3. And 1-1 in 1974 against Kareem and the Bucks. The other times, all with Sam Jones, were 1960, 1966, and 1968.

Celtics went down 2-1 after losing Game 3 in 1957, 1958 (loss in Sam Jones' rookie season), 1962, 1984, 1985 (loss), and 2008.

Were down 2-1 after winning Game 3 in 1969 (win) and 1987 (loss).

Just an obligatory note of the times that the Bill Russell Celtics were actually behind in one of their 32 playoff series after the conclusion of a game:

1957 Finals (Games 1 and 3 vs Hawks)
1958 Finals (Games 1, 3, 5, and lost in 6 vs Hawks)
1962 Finals (Games 3 and 5 vs Lakers)
1963 Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Cincinnati Royals!)
1966 Eastern Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Royals)
1966 Finals (Game 1 against Lakers)
1967 Semi-Finals (all 5 games against the 76'ers)
1968 Eastern Semi-Finals (Game 3 against Pistons)
1968 Semi-Finals (Games 3, 4, and 5 against 76'ers when they came back from 3-1 down)
1969 Finals (Games 1, 2, 3, and 5 against Lakers)
I remember many years ago doing a piece that showed how many Game 7’s that dynasty had to get past. Several were against .500 type teams too. Looking at those results I was blown away at how many playoff games those teams lost against inferior competition.
 

riboflav

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3.

1981 Celtics were 1-1 against the annoying Moses Malone Rockets before winning Game 3. And 1-1 in 1974 against Kareem and the Bucks. The other times, all with Sam Jones, were 1960, 1966, and 1968.

Celtics went down 2-1 after losing Game 3 in 1957, 1958 (loss in Sam Jones' rookie season), 1962, 1984, 1985 (loss), and 2008.

Were down 2-1 after winning Game 3 in 1969 (win) and 1987 (loss).

Just an obligatory note of the times that the Bill Russell Celtics were actually behind in one of their 32 playoff series after the conclusion of a game:

1957 Finals (Games 1 and 3 vs Hawks)
1958 Finals (Games 1, 3, 5, and lost in 6 vs Hawks)
1962 Finals (Games 3 and 5 vs Lakers)
1963 Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Cincinnati Royals!)
1966 Eastern Semi-Finals (Games 1 and 3 against the Royals)
1966 Finals (Game 1 against Lakers)
1967 Semi-Finals (all 5 games against the 76'ers)
1968 Eastern Semi-Finals (Game 3 against Pistons)
1968 Semi-Finals (Games 3, 4, and 5 against 76'ers when they came back from 3-1 down)
1969 Finals (Games 1, 2, 3, and 5 against Lakers)
The Celtics were up 2-1 in 2008 after losing game 3. They had held a 2-0 lead going to LA for game 3.
 

geoduck no quahog

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I think it’s been said already, but the Celtics can’t go into this game and play based off the officiating in game 2. It’s likely the league will adjust and call a tighter game. The Warriors will probably anticipate this and change things up a bit, counting on a Celtic reaction to the game 2 style of play.

It’s important to anticipate counter moves instead of wholly reacting to the previous game. I’m concerned that if the Celtics play off of Green’s style, they’ll fall into a trap. They should just play their game and ignore the noise.
 

benhogan

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Theis saw minutes bc Ime insists on starting Horford and TL together which requires a 3rd big off the bench due to the rotations and TL’s limitations right now. This really has to change…..it should have already changed. Having said that, I felt Theis showed himself well last game with a couple big defensive plays. That block was highlight material.
as noted by @mcpickl, IME figured out the TL/Al rotation without exposing Theis in the more physical & condensed MIL/MIA series.

Theis isn't the absolute worst (Kanter Defense :eek:), but TL/Al are much better options. Here we are in the Finals with no real reason to go further than 8 deep (Starters/White/PP/Grant). In an elimination game, it can go down to 7 players. It's a basic math/bench timing equation.

I agree with you, that if IME doesn't sub one of Horford or TimeLord out in the first 5-6 minutes he forces Theis minutes, which we can agree is suboptimal, right?

If IME is going to throw 40mpg at TL or Horford in November, we can damn well see it now. There are exactly zero moments we want to see Daniel Theis on the floor over Horford or TimeLord.
 

InstaFace

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TL is questionable again but with regards to Marcus landing on his knee, some not bad news from Ime:

"He was more scared than anything honestly. He said once he got up and running he was fine"
Ime Udoka on Marcus Smart falling on Rob Williams' knee

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1534265755444858880
Yeah on the sideline-level replay, it looked like Rob's leg had been picked up and had no weight on it when Smarf fell onto it. Marcus knocked it aside, but within its normal range of motion - there was no real opportunity to do real damage, from what I saw (IANADoctor).
 

jablo1312

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Sep 20, 2005
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Thought this read was an interesting complement to the above points:

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/can-robert-williams-find-a-home

Playing 1 big allows them to generally stash the big on the least threatening offensive player on the dubs. If they're gonna switch things up and get after Curry higher on the PnR, you put Horford as solo big on Looney, dubs screen Looney, force ball out of Currys hands and then make Looney make a play in the 4-3. Not ideal, not always what you want, but better then letting Curry annihilate you.

If the C's go small and the Warriors put Draymond at the 5 as the play-making big, I don't hate the tradeoff that much for the Celtics? Draymond better as the roll man then Looney, but that Curry/GPIII/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond gives up some size vs the celts small LU of White/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford on the offensive glass, and defensively vs the Celtics wings.

The above lineup for the Warriors is a pretty strong defensive group; hopefully you stress Curry + a limited Klay at this point to at least generate some stuff getting downhill and kicking to the shooters in a 5 out group. But (especially w/ 1 big on the floor for either team) this is more of why I'd like to see the Celtics push the ball and attack the rim in transition. You're more likely to get good looks in transition, especially when you're going against a strong halfcourt defense. And putting extra pressure on the rim (especially at home) can allow you to generate more free throws (and potential opponent foul trouble).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Game thread gonna go nuts when Horford gets called for the Flagrant here. I ain’t going near that place.
 

JCizzle

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Game thread gonna go nuts when Horford gets called for the Flagrant here. I ain’t going near that place.
We’re only going nuts because Draymond just tackled Jaylen two minutes ago and they didn’t even bother to look at it.
 

Just a bit outside

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Celtics need to change how we are covering the Curry pick and roll. Al seems to be in between and it has killed for 3 games. Certainly interesting that the Warriors have really gone away from their movement offense and relied on the high screen.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They’re continuing to give him exactly the deferential treatment he talked about. His words, not the game thread's. It’s not why the Celtics let them back in it, but it’s atrocious.
I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe when he dove on him for the loose ball and was whistled for the foul but he was whistled for the foul so that can’t be it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That’s how you iso Tatum like we have in this 4Q……in space so he can get downhill and find shooters if there isn’t a lane all the way to the rim! Earlier in the series we were trying to get him on the block in a switch against Curry but that isn’t his strength. Great adjustment by Ime!
 

128

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My vote for biggest shot of Game 3: the Smart 3-pointer that put the C's back up two after the Warriors had rallied to take the lead late in the third quarter.

The game seemed to be slipping away from the C's, and Smart stopped the slide.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This team continues to get the job done when they have a sense of urgency following a loss. Friday will be the most crucial game of the series as Game 4’s are. Concerns about how TL can bounce back but Curry may not be right either after Horford landed on his previously injured foot. Game of attrition. We must show this same urgency on Friday. Must!
 

128

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This team continues to get the job done when they have a sense of urgency following a loss. Friday will be the most crucial game of the series as Game 4’s are. Concerns about how TL can bounce back but Curry may not be right either after Horford landed on his previously injured foot. Game of attrition. We must show this same urgency on Friday. Must!
It didn't hurt tonite that the C's got a good whistle.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My vote for biggest shot of Game 3: the Smart 3-pointer that put the C's back up two after the Warriors had rallied to take the lead late in the third quarter.

The game seemed to be slipping away from the C's, and Smart stopped the slide.
Yes I told the wife the same thing at that time. Told her to think of it as the stock market where the lead that Golden St took was a support level. We cannot allow them to crash through that support level. Once we got a 4-pt lead a minute later it was crucial that we not let them back in it and we didn’t.
 

benhogan

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credit to IME on his substitutions. White for TL at the 4-minute mark is exactly how it should be played

It didn't hurt tonite that the C's got a good whistle.
C's definitely got a favorable whistle.

Hope we never see Zack Zarba again and Dray keeps running his mouth about preferential treatment
 

HomeRunBaker

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credit to IME on his substitutions. White for TL at the 4-minute mark is exactly how it should be played


C's definitely got a favorable whistle.

Hope we never see Zack Zarba again and Dray keeps running his mouth about preferential treatment
Give Jaylen and the Celtics credit. Draymond tried to put his stamp on the game in the 3Q and while he did get to Grant the rest of the team played through his schtick. These kids are growing up in front of our eyes on the biggest stage!

2 more freakin wins!!!! 2!
 

reggiecleveland

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My vote for biggest shot of Game 3: the Smart 3-pointer that put the C's back up two after the Warriors had rallied to take the lead late in the third quarter.

The game seemed to be slipping away from the C's, and Smart stopped the slide.
I agree
Massive shot
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Yes I told the wife the same thing at that time. Told her to think of it as the stock market where the lead that Golden St took was a support level. We cannot allow them to crash through that support level. Once we got a 4-pt lead a minute later it was crucial that we not let them back in it and we didn’t.
It’s funny that the urgency manifests very differently on both ends. On defense it’s looking like they have every player double-covered no matter how quick the ball moves but on O it means being more careful, more methodical, and just treating every possession with the attention it needs.

Thought Tatum was pretty masterful tonight attacking the double teams late. Either dribbling away from it or passing back out of it quickly and got a ton of looks for his teammates.
 

Kliq

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I thought the Warriors came out in the fourth quarter and rushed a bunch of difficult threes; settling for a lot of desperation hoists instead of working for the best shot; something that looked possible against a scrambling defense. Curry and Klay made some tough shots in the third quarter, but they played like they were down 25 and really settled for a lot of hard looks from deep.

The Warriors defensive lineup in the fourth quarter is ghastly. Draymond can cover for a lot, but not when he has five fouls. Curry in foul trouble, reduced Klay and Poole is a tough matchup when facing Tatum and Brown.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It’s funny that the urgency manifests very differently on both ends. On defense it’s looking like they have every player double-covered no matter how quick the ball moves but on O it means being more careful, more methodical, and just treating every possession with the attention it needs.

Thought Tatum was pretty masterful tonight attacking the double teams late. Either dribbling away from it or passing back out of it quickly and got a ton of looks for his teammates.
This is Tatum maturing and it really began in the Miami game that we blew bc nobody could make a shot. He’s figuring out how to make his teammates better. Mad props to Jaylen for being our offense in the 1H and being our lockdown defender in the 4Q.
 

lexrageorge

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It’s funny that the urgency manifests very differently on both ends. On defense it’s looking like they have every player double-covered no matter how quick the ball moves but on O it means being more careful, more methodical, and just treating every possession with the attention it needs.

Thought Tatum was pretty masterful tonight attacking the double teams late. Either dribbling away from it or passing back out of it quickly and got a ton of looks for his teammates.
Yeah, that pass to Marcus for the open 3 late in the 4th essentially ended the game. It's one of those assists that really should be capitalized in the box score.

I guess the local affiliate here in Bay Area had a dog that predicted a Celtics win by eating the dinner from the Celtics bowl. Something to watch for Game 4.
 

djbayko

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Game thread gonna go nuts when Horford gets called for the Flagrant here. I ain’t going near that place.
You're 100% correct about this. They always call that a flagrant on that as long as the jump forward is natural.

But you've been doing this act for a bit now, and honestly, it's tired. No one cares if you don't want to participate in game threads, but you don't see anyone else throwing shade at it on main boards.
 

benhogan

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Give Jaylen and the Celtics credit. Draymond tried to put his stamp on the game in the 3Q and while he did get to Grant the rest of the team played through his schtick. These kids are growing up in front of our eyes on the biggest stage!

2 more freakin wins!!!! 2!
Grant and Dray will have a dust-up at some point
 

djbayko

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Really surprised the refs didn't find a way to call a jump ball here, given all of the bodies flying at each other. They're usually quick to do so even if there aren't two players who clearly have their hands on the ball. Also, if you look carefully, you'll see Draymond and TL's heads collide with each other. Glad that didn't turn into something worse.

View: https://streamable.com/g4jgpy
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Grant and Dray will have a dust-up at some point
Huge kudos to Grant tonight. I was a little worried he’d get too wrapped up in the Drayma and forget to play. He had a nice game tonight and a lot of it simply from working his considerable ass off.
 

JCizzle

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Huge kudos to Grant tonight. I was a little worried he’d get too wrapped up in the Drayma and forget to play. He had a nice game tonight and a lot of it simply from working his considerable ass off.
We'll need him or Smart ready to send a message on Friday based on Draymond's postgame presser.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I’m sure he will be fine, it is telling that he want pulled immediately.
Yeah he’s playing. On our side, I’m very curious what Rob we get on one day’s rest after he played at redline most of the night. If he’s good to go and can give a similar effort I really love our chances.