Celtics Training Camp--News and Notes

DannyDarwinism

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Heh. But it really tis the season to let the kids play, without the typical home court advantage anticipated for the playoffs. I know I’d sacrifice a couple of wins if it means getting Nesmith, Pritchard and/or Romeo more prepared for meaningful minutes. The top priority should be getting to the playoffs healthy, particularly for Kemba. If we can get the young guns some developmental minutes in the process, all the better.
 

lovegtm

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Heh. But it really tis the season to let the kids play, without the typical home court advantage anticipated for the playoffs. I know I’d sacrifice a couple of wins if it means getting Nesmith, Pritchard and/or Romeo more prepared for meaningful minutes. The top priority should be getting to the playoffs healthy, particularly for Kemba. If we can get the young guns some developmental minutes in the process, all the better.
I’m not looking forward to all the takes about how <insert random vet here> would be getting more wins now, while simultaneously lamenting nothing happening with 1st rounders.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I’m not looking forward to all the takes about how <insert random vet here> would be getting more wins now, while simultaneously lamenting nothing happening with 1st rounders.
Oh it’s coming. I’ll do my part and promise to limit my tiresome takes rueing the passing on Desmond Bane, Xavier Tillman, or Isaiah Joe to once per every other game thread.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Okay, so for Strus, his elite skill is supposed to be 3-point shooting. He did just have a great game -- made 6 3-pointers -- but as someone noted, Carsen also had a great preseason game not so long ago. His past year in the G League it looks like he shot 30.8% from three. Not great. But he was a 96.3% free throw shooter, which is elite, if it's not small sample size. So that would bode well.

So I think the question is far from resolved whether he's the second coming of Duncan Robinson. Though, with the Heat's luck, he very well could be. Chicago picked him up last year and apparently they didn't think so, because they let him go. Hmm. If I were Danny and had a "do over," I'd still take Javonte over Strus -- as of right now.
He was 26/27 in the G League from FT line, 36/117 from 3. I don't think either sample size is indictive of anything.

In college, his Freshman year he hit 80.3% of his FT (98/122) and 33.3% of his 3s (81/243)
Sophomore year, 84.2% from FT (128/152), and 36.3% of his 3s. (113/311)



Probably safe to assume he's at least a very, very good FT shooter. Of course, so isn't Carsen Edwards. Or at least he was in college (.817, 371/454).

Then there is the fact that Strus is 6'7 and Edwards is generously 5'11. Does anyone know Strus's other measurements?

I will say I would prefer to have Strus over Edwards and Green. Last year, I didn't really see his appeal and this could just be recency bias. Chances are none of the 3 really make a difference but the Celtics could use some shooting. A guy like Green will probably stick in the NBA because of his D but I don't think it's something the C's need, especially when Langford is healthy. And everyone knows what I think of Edwards. I don't think he gets a 2nd NBA contract and I'm not sure he survives the length of his 1st.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Heh. But it really tis the season to let the kids play, without the typical home court advantage anticipated for the playoffs. I know I’d sacrifice a couple of wins if it means getting Nesmith, Pritchard and/or Romeo more prepared for meaningful minutes. The top priority should be getting to the playoffs healthy, particularly for Kemba. If we can get the young guns some developmental minutes in the process, all the better.
Just caught up watching the BRK game and one thing I noticed was how young BOS is. BRef doesn't have rosters up yet as they are not finalized but poking around, seems like BOS/DEN should be 1-2 in youngest playoff contenders. And with Kemba not playing early, the Cs are functionally going to be even younger.

It's going to be bumpy in the beginning. Particularly if one or two non-core players don't take a step up. In particular, I thought Grant Williams would be better but whether it's weight or lack of an offseason, it's disappointing how he has played.
 

lovegtm

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Just caught up watching the BRK game and one thing I noticed was how young BOS is. BRef doesn't have rosters up yet as they are not finalized but poking around, seems like BOS/DEN should be 1-2 in youngest playoff contenders. And with Kemba not playing early, the Cs are functionally going to be even younger.

It's going to be bumpy in the beginning. Particularly if one or two non-core players don't take a step up. In particular, I thought Grant Williams would be better but whether it's weight or lack of an offseason, it's disappointing how he has played.
There wasn't really enough offseason for guys to take those leaps, so there will be a lot of guys figuring it out (or not) on the fly over the course of the year.
 

benhogan

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guilty as charged.

Credit to Spo for sitting big contract vets, Dion Waiters and James Johnson, to start last season.

Miami reg. season minutes played last season:
1. 22yr old 4/5
2. undrafted/G-League graduate
3. undrafted rookie/G-League grad
4. Butler
5. Goran
6. 20yr old rookie
7. undrafted 22yr old

Seeded 5th Miami absolutely toyed with the regular season record-breaking Bucks
 

TripleOT

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guilty as charged.

Credit to Spo for sitting big contract vets, Dion Waiters and James Johnson, to start last season.

Miami reg. season minutes played last season:
1. 22yr old 4/5
2. undrafted/G-League graduate
3. undrafted rookie/G-League grad
4. Butler
5. Goran
6. 20yr old rookie
7. undrafted 22yr old

Seeded 5th Miami absolutely toyed with the regular season record-breaking Bucks
But the team that won the EC wasn’t that team. Only three of the top eight in total minutes were under 28.

If Boston added Crowder and Iggy at the deadline last season, they would have probably been a Finals team, at least.
 

benhogan

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But the team that won the EC wasn’t that team. Only three of the top eight in total minutes were under 28.

If Boston added Crowder and Iggy at the deadline last season, they would have probably been a Finals team, at least.
it was a follow up subtweet

maybe 2020-21 Celtics do just that? They have much more flexibility than last seasons Heat to add vets

throw in empty stands and home court (regular season standings) isn't really all that important


*also Duncan, Bam, Tyler were 3 of the top 5 in playoff minutes played. So going young/inexp. didn't exactly hurt Miami in the playoffs
 
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Imbricus

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I thought this was a joke. But apparently Jaylen's serious? And this is, like, not uncommon?

Boston Celtic Jaylen Brown Also Uses Sage: “You Know, When I Get To Different Places That I’m Going I Like To Just Lightly Sage The Area Just To Make Sure The Aura Is Clean When I’m Walking Into It.”
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Lots of interesting players cut today, including (in no particular order), Courtney Lee, Frank Kaminsky, RHJefferson, Kidd-Gilchrist, TJ Leaf, Noah Vonleh (who also tested positive for CV). and Skal Labissiere.

I doubt DA does anything but it seems to me that a couple of these guys could upgrade the back end of the Cs roster while being young enough to have some upside.
 

slamminsammya

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There wasn't really enough offseason for guys to take those leaps, so there will be a lot of guys figuring it out (or not) on the fly over the course of the year.
February to June was the offseason, and I think it was actually likely to be even more impactful than a normal offseason since guys didn't have to worry about meshing with new coaches, new teammate, new systems, new roles etc.
 

chilidawg

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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"Open" is in the eye of the beholder, unfortunately.
What you or I or the average basketball fan considers "open" is likely different within the Celtics organization - there are shots they want all players to take, some shots that only go to a few guys and then the stupid ones which pretty much go to Tatum, Brown, Smart and maybe Kemba. This means that we may get more of those "no! no! no!" shots early in the shot clock when Smart has the ball and space. However if it means fewer contested/mid-shot clock shots, then so be it.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I'm fine with it. Partly because it seems like some questionable shots are all part of the Marcus Smart package; it's really hard to separate the irrational confidence from everything else that makes him who he is. Like, I wish he wouldn't punch glass picture frames, too, and I wish Brad Marchand would stop licking/slew footing dudes, but here we are.

That said, his quote isn't wrong. He's made himself into a pretty good shooter. His shooting percentages are respectable, even with some shots that he shouldn't be taking thrown into the mix. It sounds like he's acknowledging that he can refine his shot selection while still being aggressive in looking for his shot. And he should be aggressive - the offense needs him to be a threat. Brad Stevens has always been pretty accepting of guys searching out what their limits are on the floor, even if it means a few bad shots. I remember Jae Crowder would always take a couple off the dribble jumpers he had no business taking, but Stevens would encourage him to fire away. I think Marcus' comments are probably completely in sync with what the coaching staff is telling him.
 

TripleOT

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Smart should not take any non-layup non-threes. He should concentrate more on getting to the rim for layups/lay downs to the big for dunks.

I can live with the six threes a game if he were a bit more selective. He shot 36.4% two seasons ago, (on two less threes per game) and a bit more selectivity could get him back there.
 

BigSoxFan

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They're going to run a lot of primary offense through Tatum; that writing has been on the wall for awhile.
They really need Jaylen to step up in the half court. He gets a lot of good transition buckets or pull ups but we need him to be a creator as well. This is also probably why Smart has the green light. I think he might average 14-15 ppg this year with the added volume.

Realistically, I think January is out for Kemba and maybe you get him back sometime in February, if you're lucky. If I were to bet, I'd probably predict March for his return. Really is too bad Langford is also hurt. Would have been a great opportunity for him to get more offensive responsibility. But since he's out, the rooks will get first dibs.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Smart should not take any non-layup non-threes. He should concentrate more on getting to the rim for layups/lay downs to the big for dunks.

I can live with the six threes a game if he were a bit more selective. He shot 36.4% two seasons ago, (on two less threes per game) and a bit more selectivity could get him back there.
Holy Hot Take! Marcus is one of the best post-up player on the Cs right now and certainly when he runs PnR, he takes and makes a lot of 2Ps.

What I think Marcus needs to jettison is the pull-up 3Ps early in the shot-clock. Chris Forsberg has some stats here: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-marcus-smart-can-live-self-proclaimed-great-shooter-status
 

NomarsFool

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According to the Athletic, Smart shot 41.5% on 2 pointers last year. That is not good. He needs to get rid of the wild floaters from his repertoire.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Holy Hot Take! Marcus is one of the best post-up player on the Cs right now and certainly when he runs PnR, he takes and makes a lot of 2Ps.

What I think Marcus needs to jettison is the pull-up 3Ps early in the shot-clock. Chris Forsberg has some stats here: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-marcus-smart-can-live-self-proclaimed-great-shooter-status
This is fascinating because last year his pull-up and catch-and-shoot numbers flipped so do they really not want him taking pull-ups? This is a trend that bears watching because it really will tell you how the Celtics organization feels about certain shots (of course it also is tied to a specific individual so it may be hard to divine too much information) but if he is still taking those early pull-ups that Forsberg references, its likely a shot the Cs want him taking. We really cannot discuss what are good and bad shots from a macro level until/unless we have an idea of what the C's consider good and bad.
 

Jimbodandy

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This is fascinating because last year his pull-up and catch-and-shoot numbers flipped so do they really not want him taking pull-ups? This is a trend that bears watching because it really will tell you how the Celtics organization feels about certain shots (of course it also is tied to a specific individual so it may be hard to divine too much information) but if he is still taking those early pull-ups that Forsberg references, its likely a shot the Cs want him taking. We really cannot discuss what are good and bad shots from a macro level until/unless we have an idea of what the C's consider good and bad.
I think that we can analyze Marcus with analytics and logic until the cows come home, but none of it will make much sense until the offense settles into some kind of rhythm and identity.

No Heywould anymore, no Kemba for a while, a new guy in Teague, and a roster of people who aren't old enough to rent cars*. The offense will take time to work itself out. Marcus is obviously a facilitator, and the two preseason games showed that JT and JB are looking harder than ever for their teammates. Teague's a veteran who knows how to find his teammates. It's all good, but it will take time. There will be long stretches in the early going where the offense looks like 5 guys who just met this morning, and you can bet your bippy that Marcus will launch. When nobody else seems to want to shoot, Marcus will. He gives zero fucks, and neither should we until at least Valentines Day, IMO.


*that's an old datum most likely, but we have a stupid number of people under 25
 

Cesar Crespo

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According to the Athletic, Smart shot 41.5% on 2 pointers last year. That is not good. He needs to get rid of the wild floaters from his repertoire.
He also attempted considerably more 2's last year than the previous year, although it is more in line with his career numbers. 2019 was the outlier by far. He also has been taking less 2 pointers ratiowise.

Yearly 2PFGA/FG%/Percentage of 2 point shots
3.1, .410, 43%
4.7, .427, 54%
5.3, .410, 56%
4.9, .429, 52%
2.8, .511, 39%
4.8, .415, 42%

In 2018/19, he had his lowest FGA/36 by far He had his 2nd highest 3PA/36. It's safe to say the less 2 pointers Marcus takes, the more efficient he becomes.

2PA/36, 3PA/36
4.1, 5.4
6.2, 5.2
6.3, 5.0
5.9, 5.6
3.6, 5.7
5.4, 7.4

I'd say his 2018/29 2PFG% is a fluke but there is this:
% of shots from 0-3, 3ft-3pt, and % of 2PG that were 3ft-3pt
17.6%, 25.4%, 59.1%
29.1%, 25.4%, 46.6%
22.4%, 33.2%, 59.7%
17.7%, 33.9% 65.7%
17.3%, 21.7% 55.6%
11.1%, 31.0%, 73.6%




TL/DR or Too many Numbers: Marcus Smart with shot selection is a very good thing. Marcus Smart in 2019/20 is odd because his overall shot selection is probably improving but his 2P shot selection is declining.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This is fascinating because last year his pull-up and catch-and-shoot numbers flipped so do they really not want him taking pull-ups? This is a trend that bears watching because it really will tell you how the Celtics organization feels about certain shots (of course it also is tied to a specific individual so it may be hard to divine too much information) but if he is still taking those early pull-ups that Forsberg references, its likely a shot the Cs want him taking. We really cannot discuss what are good and bad shots from a macro level until/unless we have an idea of what the C's consider good and bad.
Agree on the general point but - going from memory here so I'm sure someone will correct me if my memory is faulty - but isn't Brad on record saying that he never tells people not to shoot because he would hated that when he was a player?

I think players generally have green lights but if they miss too often - Edwards - they don't get court time.

*that's an old datum most likely, but we have a stupid number of people under 25
BRef doesn't have statistics out yet but I would suspect that BOS is among the youngest playoff contenders in the league this year. This year is going to be bumpy.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think players generally have green lights but if they miss too often - Edwards - they don't get court time.
A player without a green light would be like playing 4 vs 5 basketball. I get some players don't get the ball on offense much because they are dreadful but I can't imagine them not having a green light. Most players play within their means.
 

TripleOT

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Holy Hot Take! Marcus is one of the best post-up player on the Cs right now and certainly when he runs PnR, he takes and makes a lot of 2Ps.

What I think Marcus needs to jettison is the pull-up 3Ps early in the shot-clock. Chris Forsberg has some stats here: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-marcus-smart-can-live-self-proclaimed-great-shooter-status
Smart has missed two of every three shots he’s taken in his career from 3-10 feet. It’s the worst part of his game. Theoretically, he could be a beast on the post against most covers, but unless they plan on posting him up a lot, with him getting to the rim, that part of his game is pretty inconsequential.
 

lovegtm

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I'm a lot less worried about depth after seeing that first game, especially in a regular season context. Also, this team without Kemba is really big/long. That was the first Bucks game I can remember in awhile where it didn't feel like we were the midgets.

That 1st half transition D and 4th quarter defensive effort were some of the worst things I've seen in my life. I'm going to give teams a lot of leeway early in this weird season though.