yeah, pretty impressive to raise injury risk as the downside in a trade where the two biggest injury risks were the ones leaving.
Celtics Trade Timelord, Brogdon, and picks for Jrue Holiday
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
In that case, I agree with what you're saying.
Health permitting, I think this is the best chance the Celtics have had to win a title in the Tatum-era. It's a great collection of talent and personalities....has the damn season started yet or what?!?!??!
Considering injury risk, role, etc.... is Brodgon/TL/picks for Jrue ($36m/yr) better than whatever package would of been needed for Lillard ($45m/yr)?
I worry more about Lillard's availability then Holiday; and am less worried about Holiday's struggles in the playoffs (he won't be asked to be a primary scorer).
So perhaps this is about a good a final outcome as one could hope for (once the Clippers nixed the original Porzingis deal).
I worry more about Lillard's availability then Holiday; and am less worried about Holiday's struggles in the playoffs (he won't be asked to be a primary scorer).
So perhaps this is about a good a final outcome as one could hope for (once the Clippers nixed the original Porzingis deal).
I no longer subscribe to ESPN+ ....what did Pelton give it? I have a lot more confidence in him analytically than Harper.
I like repeating myself, so I’ll once again say that I’m basically salivating waiting for the season to start.
The Brogdon/TL/2 bad picks offer wouldn't have come remotely close to getting Lillard, so if you like Holiday a lot you should be fist-pumping this deal.
I think Brad isn't thinking about trading JB but if the Cs can't get a title this year, everything is on the table (except Tatum).
I think Brad is just refreshing Darko all day and then mashing the "Trade" button based on what he sees.
The other thing - who cares about the Cs' floor? The Cs are in "Title or Bust" mode right now. To win the title, the big thing is to raise the ceiling, which they did.
Frankly, it seems likely to me that the Cs are going to have a great season or a terrible one. I don't think they are a team that will try hard and bow out meekly in the 2nd round of the playoffs (like some other teams.
).
I wonder how significant the push was. If they had given two unprotecteds and a swap or two, that probably beats the C's offer. Of course, Miami would be out of draft capital at that point.
Boston was just in this good position where it could deal an ok GSW pick and its own unprotected without messing up the future much at all.
Miami seems to be in a bit of Ainge mode, where it wants good players, but doesn't feel comfortable paying up for them.
If we win a title there is little to no chance Jaylen goes anywhere. Anything less and he's absolutely on the table in the right deal. If we thoroughly underperform I'd say there is a very good chance he's the piece we use to shake it up.
I'm not sure about that----Miami can't really deal an asset like TL who might pop (they don't have one, at least not one who is more than a lottery ticket) and Brogdon likely brings another asset beyond the two picks. So it's a little unclear what Miami could offer. I guess if you do two picks, a swap, Jovic? Still suspect that loses to Boston's offer. If you add in Jaquez?
Celtics just had a lot more, and diverse, assets. One wonders if they added the 2029 unprotected to top a Miami offer like the above in fact
I remember complaining about the lack of shot creators on this team. Well adding Holiday changes that.
"But Holiday was also one of 12 players who ended last season with over 78 percent of all their shots being self-created, per Second Spectrum (minimum of 500 attempts)."
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/10/2/23899475/jrue-holiday-trade-boston-celtics
"But Holiday was also one of 12 players who ended last season with over 78 percent of all their shots being self-created, per Second Spectrum (minimum of 500 attempts)."
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/10/2/23899475/jrue-holiday-trade-boston-celtics
A bit late to this thread, but add me to the group that hated seeing TL leave. But I was also someone who watched him play last year and had to convince myself constantly "no no, he looks fine, this is good, he's just rusty" when I knew deep down, he was never going to be the guy he was pre-injury. I really wanted Smart especially to get a title in Boston and would have loved TL to do so too; but it is what it is and assuming KP/Horford stay decently healthy (I don't mind Kornet and Gabriel getting significant regular season minutes) I am excited for this team.
Also, I know this isn't true, but it *feels* like one factor (though not the main factor) in Holiday going to the Cs over the Heat is Portland taking exception to the Heat's presumption that it was a matter of when not if Portland caved and accepted the Heat's less-than-optimal offer for Dame.
Also, I know this isn't true, but it *feels* like one factor (though not the main factor) in Holiday going to the Cs over the Heat is Portland taking exception to the Heat's presumption that it was a matter of when not if Portland caved and accepted the Heat's less-than-optimal offer for Dame.
I've seen a couple of notes hinting that Holiday and the Celtics are looking on working out an extension. While I shudder to think of what that means to the Celtics future cap, I'm curious if this means that what he said on Andre Iguodala's podcast just a couple of months ago no longer applies:
https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1652463813587869696?s=20
That'd be a lot of money for him to walk away from (from Boston or whomever), assuming he stays reasonably healthy and doesn't fall off a cliff.
https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1652463813587869696?s=20
That'd be a lot of money for him to walk away from (from Boston or whomever), assuming he stays reasonably healthy and doesn't fall off a cliff.
Or, they are keeping their powder dry for a bigger fish. A 7 footer currently playing in Philadelphia.
I'm shocked that there are folks that don't like this trade.
I understand the sentimentality of wanting to win with Smart and TL, but from every possible view of this team now in a basketball lens, they are so much better now than they were when the season ended two months ago.
Punt the regular season, get a middle seed, just keep everyone healthy. That should be the mantra for the next 6 months or whatever it is, even if it gets frustrating at times losing winnable games.
I understand the sentimentality of wanting to win with Smart and TL, but from every possible view of this team now in a basketball lens, they are so much better now than they were when the season ended two months ago.
Punt the regular season, get a middle seed, just keep everyone healthy. That should be the mantra for the next 6 months or whatever it is, even if it gets frustrating at times losing winnable games.
That TimeLord development curve *sob*
And yet, the sacrifice of that upside enabled this:
Dark Brad-don is outmaneuvering his nemesis and settling all family business. I look forward to the Weird Celtics Twitter memes, please keep 'em coming.
Well, that's a different discussion but Holiday, Tatum, Porzingis, Brown, and White ranked 6, 9, 18, 34, and T-56 in the league by DARKO last year.
They do not have remotely near enough powder to get into that conversation (unless they make Bam available).
Wait, what? I would one hundred percent take Maxey over Herro and it's not really close.
Only argument for Herro is that he's signed (Maxey is an RFA next year).
They can't even be arsed to define what they considered "significant".
If it's Herro or Lowry, that better be a LOT of picks coming.
Same. It’s been nearly 40 years since the Celtics have been this good 1-6.
My daughter and I were on the train on the way into Boston for lunch and we were just excitedly talking about the upcoming season. She just reminded me that Porziņģis is 7’3”. Can’t remember who raised concerns about rebounding but between Porziņģis, Tatum, Horford, Brown and Holiday I am not worried about that.
You could squint and see all of the top 6 north of .60 TS% and playing smothering defense as well. Lots to be excited about.
Please let the team stay healthy!
I agree that this Cs team is more likely to win a championship now than a few months ago
But without Smart/TimeLord it's become a lot less fun to root for. Those two, more than anyone else sucked me back into Celtics fandom for the first time in 20+ years. This team has lost a lot of its personality, and I doubt I'm the only one who mourns.
One might argue that this team needed to lose a lot of its personality, replacing it with different personality. Maybe you just don't know the new guys well enough yet.
I understand this but would submit that the 2021-22 team was the toughest of hangs through 50ish games until February, and despite a near 60-win season last year mostly felt like a pretty big slog after the hot start. The 40ish games from late January through the Brooklyn playoff series was an amazingly fun peak but the other 150ish games in that time have mostly been an anxiety-producing grind.
It’s not inconceivable that the direct result of the trade of Jrue for Dame is a net loss for the Bucks. Are they better with Jrue and no Dame, and consequently Jrue not a Celtic?
You're not wrong, and I'm mourning a bit for both of them too (having mostly already done so for Smart, and now going through it again for Timelord). But I will say:
- It's pretty fun to root for Tatum, who seems to have an unnatural ability to always make good decisions and be alert to things. Bill Belichick would love him, because Tatum knows all the situations. He's really everything you could want in a #1 star, on and off the court.
- It's pretty fun to root for the one or two monster dunks you get out of Jaylen Brown every game on a fast break, and his intense defense.
- Derrick White's instincts, defensive peskiness and hands are definitely on par with Smart, even if he's not quite as willing to throw his body around (drawing charges aside). I greatly enjoy rooting for Derrick White, not least for his unheralded, Horatio Alger-esque rise to semi-stardom.
- It's pretty fun to root for Al Horford, who basically made clear he made a mistake in ever leaving Boston and signed a "pay me whatever you want" deal in order to stay here, and has incredible passing vision and touch for a big man
- I'm willing to bet it won't be long before we find things to enjoy about watching Holiday and Tingus Pingus.
- And there are young guys who we've bet on developing into viable NBA bench or even rotation players: Walsh (our 1st-round pick this year), Queta (who we stole from Sacramento and was All-G-League 1st team) and Scrubb (a 2020 second-rounder with a great name who we picked up after a hot Summer League). Further development for Hauser, Davison and maybe even Pritchard. It's fun to root for young guys to get better because you're not just hoping to hold on, you've got the chance they surprise you in a positive way. And lord knows, we will now have minutes for all of them.
So I think there's a lot of reason to tune in. And one other reason, above all: this team is likely to be title favorites, barring a major health disaster.
Bingo
Or, rather Jr and Dr sound exactly the same in that spelling (I've heard a lot of folks do it as two syllables- e.g. jay-rew, and that's incorrect).
The only sports merch I've bought in the past decade has been Marcus Smart related, but Jrue Holiday might just be the easiest guy to root for in the league. In addition to the stuff with Lauren (for those who don't know, his college-sweetheart/wife Lauren Holiday is a two time gold medalist and World Cup winner for the USWNT, she had brain cancer, and Jrue took a leave of absence during the season to care for her, and now they both do a ton of community/advocacy work, plus their kids are Deuce-level cute), he won the Teammate of the Year Award three times and is universally loved by players, journos and fans. Plus he's really really good at basketball and a great fit for this team.
If you find it hard to root for Jrue Holiday its only because you're not familiar with him. Give it until November.
If you find it hard to root for Jrue Holiday its only because you're not familiar with him. Give it until November.
Yeah that’s Dame.
LOL Doncic is right, he’s super lazy defensively. I know he has a ridiculously massive workload offensively, but he needs to improve on the other end. He looks to be in much better shape as of now, so maybe this will be the year.
But probably not.
I don't feel this way at all. I liked Marcus, good player (better guy) and loved Rob's athleticism, but rooting for this year's Celtics team is going to be a blast. I don't get the sentiment that it won't be.
To me, Jr and Dr are clearly different pronunciations. Hard to hear the difference, but starting with a “jah” sound or a “dah” sound is different. Totally understand it’s one syllable.
Agreed. FWIW, at this time there are only 3 players on the Celts that were on the team when Brad took over as President of Basketball Ops.
Yeah.. it’s not all that hard to root for a team that’s going to most likely win a lot and has shooters most of the time at all five positions… and will simply play grinding TEAM defense. They’re also going to pass the ball a lot.. Porzyingis is an above the arc facilitator that we always wanted Rob to be.. and he sometimes was when he was healthy.. but that was years ago.