Celtics trade Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford and a 1st round pick to Spurs for Derrick White

Cellar-Door

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This is exactly what the detractors are saying. White is ok for Richardson (baka's son aside), Langford makes it worse, the 2022 pick moreso but that largely unprotected 2028 swap is a bridge too far. They would have passed on White because of the 2028 pick swap is just too much. I assume that the Celtics would have preferred more protection and the Spurs wouldn't bite but maybe Stevens is a pushover.
I mean if the basis starts with... A player for a much worse player on a shorter contract is "ok" then people aren't really being rational.

I get that the swap in 2028 scares people, and that's fine, but it's a calculated risk for a better team the next 3 years (maybe more depending whether you keep White, trade etc.)
I also don't like comparisons to things like the Nets, because part of why the Nets swaps did so well was:
1. The Nets were a very old team, so they were both in decline and weren't going to have any trade value down the line
2. The Nets had also traded/swapped every other pick before then so they were low on ways to build their team's future

I don't think CLE is a good comp either, they chose a hard re-set to reload with picks, by trading away players, and.. they had a bunch of time to get bad. At worst the Celtics will be in their 1st year without Tatum, without a reason to re-set they'll likely have a strong supporting cast left over, (plus given how contracts work now, Tatum would be unlikely to opt-out, if he wanted to go somewhere he'd do an opt-in and trade because it makes him tens of millions more.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Then we would have spent weeks complaining that nothing got done at the deadline, like the last few years with Danny.
Likely.

I want to emphasize that we know nothing about how this trade went down in terms of details. However we know what it costs to acquire Derrick White.

To me, the Celtics gave up a worse player in Richardson, a young player who is and may always be a negative in terms of production in Romeo and deep out of the money draft capital.

To others, this package is too much to improve the roster, mainly because of a far forward pick. They would have walked away at that point - no judgement here because that may well be the right answer.

Kudos to @slamminsammya for the math above. The one thing I think I'd want to factor in is the delta between draft slots given an expected production from each selection. If they get taken out of a top five pick by the Spurs, they still get something out of the draft. I do think teams value these things less than fans but that's just me looking at the overall market.
 
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Sprowl

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I loves me some pass-first point guard, and I'm OK with the four-dimes-for-one-quarter trade. It loses value overall, but gains the best player for the next year or two at a position where the Celtics have been understaffed for years. The combination of trades shortens the roster, but Ime Udoka likes to play an 8-man rotation anyway. It feels like the ghost of Carsen Edwards has finally abandoned the roster.

2028? Tomorrow is a long time. PBS just spent a wee bit of draft capital. I expect he'll spend quite a bit more before the Jays' era is done.
 

HomeRunBaker

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How can you be sure Tatum/Jaylen are here then?

Six years is a long time.

Six years ago Cleveland won the championship with Lebron James and Kyrie Irving locked up for 2 and 3 more years respectively, same as Jaylen/Tatum now. If they traded for Robert Covington then and threw in a pick swap 5 years later, figuring what are the odds the process 76ers are going to be better than us, Evan Mobley would be playing for Philly right now.
Sure it’s a small risk and there is risk with everything. There is also risk in not doing this deal while the Spurs move White elsewhere and we are hunting for some semblance of a PG this summer again. The Spurs had a ton of leverage knowing our backcourt situation and the inability to retain Schroder past this year.
 

Devizier

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Again, I think this “squeeze every deal” mentality is the precise reason why Ainge got stuck holding his proverbial dick when the Celtics came upon that bolus of first rounders that they essentially didn’t need and couldn’t get value for.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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for those that are fans, White is a +/- darling

6 straight seasons of being a + on-court, + on/off, +BPM, +VORP

Spurs fans really liked him, "good guy" "Celtics will love him" gets mentioned often

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299449

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01.html
After years of reading other teams' forums (fora?), it was weird going through several pages of the spurstalk forum, without feeling like I needed to bleach my eyes.
 

benhogan

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I don't mind losing the 2022 1st. Begarin/Mader probably show up on the roster next season. I think we have all learned that there are only so many minutes for rookies/2nd yr players.

The pick swap is a small migraine. Probably the price of the Celtic's obvious deficiency/need. Rarely does the Board 100% agree on something, and we all agreed this team needed a ballhandler. The rest of the NBA knew the Celtics' plight. Not only did we need a ballhandler, we wanted one with size/switchable so he couldn't get targeted in a playoff game. We pined for Haliburton/DeJounte Murray but they were never in play without Brown. White is a notch below them BUT was acquired by selling high on a player nobody wanted last summer + the 18th pick that would struggle to get minutes here next season + that annoying pick swap.

Brad gets an A for his work last summer and a B+ for trade deadline work yesterday. If they do well in the buyout market I'd raise Brad's trade deadline grade but he also gets dinged on the Theis deal. The Celtics' completely hooked up Houston by taking Theis' contract off their hands (Sengun needs those minutes). PLUS when Schroder gets bought out he'll be free to sign with an EC competitor. DS should have been sent to a WC team that would not cut him for filler/asset. Then that filler could have been redirected to Houston.

Brad upgraded the rotation this season and future seasons but gave us two small migraines at the trade deadline.
 

Imbricus

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I definitely was in the "overpay" camp initially on this deal, especially after the pick swap was announced. Just seemed like too much. And was his contract really that good?

But he definitely ticks some key boxes. It looks like we got a distributor, which was a critical need (Jaylen/Jayson running the offense wasn't optimal). He's a big point guard who plays good defense. He has a low assists-to-turnover ratio. The shooting isn't great, but he's been a little better than 85% from the foul line the last three seasons, so you have to think there's potential to be decent with a three-point shot, especially if he can get more open looks.

Out of curiosity, I also checked the "grade the trade" articles on this deal. Interestingly, they're about evenly split. A good number give the same grade to the Celtics and Spurs. A couple thought the Spurs did better, and a couple thought the Celts did better.
 

tbb345

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I definitely was in the "overpay" camp initially on this deal, especially after the pick swap was announced. Just seemed like too much. And was his contract really that good?

But he definitely ticks some key boxes. It looks like we got a distributor, which was a critical need (Jaylen/Jayson running the offense wasn't optimal). He's a big point guard who plays good defense. He has a low assists-to-turnover ratio. The shooting isn't great, but he's been a little better than 85% from the foul line the last three seasons, so you have to think there's potential to be decent with a three-point shot, especially if he can get more open looks.

Out of curiosity, I also checked the "grade the trade" articles on this deal. Interestingly, they're about evenly split. A good number give the same grade to the Celtics and Spurs. A couple thought the Spurs did better, and a couple thought the Celts did better.
What’s interesting about the vast majority of the “grade the trade” articles (the only exceptions I’ve seen are Brian Robb and the writers specifically covering the Celtics at The Athletic) is that the thing that people on this board are fretting about, the pick swap with only top 1 protection, is not even mentioned.

If you take that part out of the deal, or even make it top 5 protected instead of top 1, I wouldn’t hesitate to give this deal an A. When you include that, it bumps the trade down to a B or B+ for me
 

lovegtm

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I don't mind losing the 2022 1st. Begarin/Mader probably show up on the roster next season. I think we have all learned that there are only so many minutes for rookies/2nd yr players.

The pick swap is a small migraine. Probably the price of the Celtic's obvious deficiency/need. Rarely does the Board 100% agree on something, and we all agreed this team needed a ballhandler. The rest of the NBA knew the Celtics' plight. Not only did we need a ballhandler, we wanted one with size/switchable so he couldn't get targeted in a playoff game. We pined for Haliburton/DeJounte Murray but they were never in play without Brown. White is a notch below them BUT was acquired by selling high on a player nobody wanted last summer + the 18th pick that would struggle to get minutes here next season + that annoying pick swap.

Brad gets an A for his work last summer and a B+ for trade deadline work yesterday. If they do well in the buyout market I'd raise Brad's trade deadline grade but he also gets dinged on the Theis deal. The Celtics' completely hooked up Houston by taking Theis' contract off their hands (Sengun needs those minutes). PLUS when Schroder gets bought out he'll be free to sign with an EC competitor. DS should have been sent to a WC team that would not cut him for filler/asset. Then that filler could have been redirected to Houston.

Brad upgraded the rotation this season and future seasons but gave us two small migraines at the trade deadline.
The Theis deal is going to look really helpful when Horford is traded over the summer and TL inevitably misses some time. Daniel Theis is good at basketball when he's playing center on a good team.
 

benhogan

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The Theis deal is going to look really helpful when Horford is traded over the summer and TL inevitably misses some time. Daniel Theis is good at basketball when he's playing center on a good team.
Agreed. I like getting Theis, he helps now by giving Horford a PT break and he helps in the future. Great screener, good shot blocker, knows what is expected of him in Boston. He's a huge upgrade from Kanter (who has lost his vice grip hands)

Just wanted Schroder parked elsewhere, so he doesn't show up in Chicago or Cleveland or Milwaukee for a playoff series against us.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I'm agnostic about whether Brad overpaid slightly or not, but I'm a big Derrick White fan. There just aren't many guys like him, and the Celtics need guys like that to make this system work - a big, defensively-switchable point guard who is a plus distributor and defender, with the potential to be a plus shooter as well. Marcus Smart is similar. Adding guys like that around Tatum and Brown shows there's a coherent identity they're trying to build -- share the ball, switch everything defensively, establish a clear offensive hierarchy where everything revolves around the two stars. I think White is a much better player than, say, Evan Fournier or Malcolm Brogdon.

And from a macro point of view, I know this deal doesn't necessarily preclude them adding a third star. They have the salaries to send out to match if someone becomes available. BUT, they did dip into the draft capital war chest, which is really the only asset they have to add talent. This feels like a commitment to putting the right role players around Brown and Tatum, and riding those two guys to whatever their ceiling is, as opposed to arranging the chips to be able to add a third guy like Beal. I feel like Danny Ainge would have had the exact opposite reaction to watching this up-and-down season. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see how it comes together.
 

benhogan

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Has there been any indication that the Spurs might buy out Schroder and he may in fact go to one of those teams anyway?
Houston. They already cut Kanter-Freedom

I imagine they have no need for Schroder. Unless they agreed to not cut him, then that small migraine goes away

all 3 of those EC teams were rumored to be interested in DS
 

RG33

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How about this, the Spurs wanted Romeo and two 1sts. The Celtics said no. To get the deal done, POBOBS did the 2028 pick swap knowing Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are his core players at 23 and 25 right now.

I know it is the SoSHest thing ever to be caught in this component of the trade, but it feels like a very low percentage thing that was clearly needed to get the deal done and likely wonmt matter much.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'm agnostic about whether Brad overpaid slightly or not, but I'm a big Derrick White fan. There just aren't many guys like him, and the Celtics need guys like that to make this system work - a big, defensively-switchable point guard who is a plus distributor and defender, with the potential to be a plus shooter as well. Marcus Smart is similar. Adding guys like that around Tatum and Brown shows there's a coherent identity they're trying to build -- share the ball, switch everything defensively, establish a clear offensive hierarchy where everything revolves around the two stars. I think White is a much better player than, say, Evan Fournier or Malcolm Brogdon.

And from a macro point of view, I know this deal doesn't necessarily preclude them adding a third star. They have the salaries to send out to match if someone becomes available. BUT, they did dip into the draft capital war chest, which is really the only asset they have to add talent. This feels like a commitment to putting the right role players around Brown and Tatum, and riding those two guys to whatever their ceiling is, as opposed to arranging the chips to be able to add a third guy like Beal. I feel like Danny Ainge would have had the exact opposite reaction to watching this up-and-down season. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see how it comes together.
To me the biggest impact on the "search for a third star" is that acquiring White makes it much easier to include Smart in a package for a third star. Before, you had to worry about a set of things about trading Smart---guard defense; ball handling; leadership. White (in better or slightly worse ways) addresses all of those so IF the right deal includes Smart you can now do it, and you don't need to target a ballhandler at all as part of the trade or sequence. That doesn't guarantee Smart gets traded (or that I think they should) but I suspect overall it's now easier to get that third star because you can get a 1-4 as that player rather than really needing a 1 or a 2.
 

lexrageorge

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The trade shows that Stevens is all in on riding the wave as high as Tatum & Brown can take him. Which is good to see. Tatum's ceiling is still a first team All-NBA, especially in a couple of seasons when some of the longer time players on that list start aging out. Even as a 2nd team All-NBA player, Tatum is a player you try your hardest to build around. Yes, there's an outside chance that his agent tries to land him elsewhere in a few years, but Stevens shouldn't be planning around that possibility. And improving the #6 spot on the roster by a significant margin will definitely show Tatum that the organization has zero interest in tanking or waiting for Godot.

It's not highly likely that the pick swap in 2028 will cost them the next Tatum. It's certainly not impossible, but even in the disaster scenario where the Celtics lose a high draft pick there's a still a strong likelihood of the pick they're giving up turning into a Jeff Green or Marvin Bagley or Buddy Hield. Looking back at the Tatum draft, the only other player that has a similar ceiling to Jasyon is probably Donovan Mitchell. It's really hard to find a Tatum even if you have a series of high lottery picks.
 
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chilidawg

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This is exactly what the detractors are saying. White is ok for Richardson (baka's son aside), Langford makes it worse, the 2022 pick moreso but that largely unprotected 2028 swap is a bridge too far. They would have passed on White because of the 2028 pick swap is just too much. I assume that the Celtics would have preferred more protection and the Spurs wouldn't bite but maybe Stevens is a pushover.
That sounds like me saying the Kyrie trade was a bad idea because adding Zizic was too much. I do believe I may have actually said that.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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When POBOBS took the reins, we had an albatross Kemba contract, decisions to make on Smart/TL, and no mid-range contracts (the kind you can use in any trade). The degree to which he has improved the team both on the floor and in terms of future flexibility is impressive.

Ainge made some of the best trades this league has ever seen but there is an agility to Stevens so far that has me excited. He's not going to be the guy hanging on for dear life to a dream of acquiring the next AD and miss out on other deals along the way because of it. And at the same time, he's clearly not going to hamstring us in case someone like Donovan Mitchell shakes loose.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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To take a concept from the Red Sox side of things, I also think this trade has the potential for "excess value" that Chaim loves. White is having a down year; maybe fits better here; and if he gets better looks and knocks those down, White (like JRich) could become a more attractive asset if he's shooting .360 or .370 on high volume from 3P. From what I read, there was some chatter that White could be a borderline All-Star if he had made a jump this season (instead of regressed) so there's still growth potential there.

Also, in a lot of ways, White is the defensive menance, play-making ballhandler we all hoped Romeo might become.
 

jmcc5400

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White’s ball handling and distribution skills shore up Tatum’s and Brown’s biggest weaknesses.

The attention Tatum and Brown get from opposing defenses probably gets White more open looks which, presumably, should ameliorate his biggest weakness.

All in a package that further strengthens point guard defense, plays into Ime’s switchable scheme and gives you another 85% free throw shooter to close out games.
The surest way to have a high draft pick in 2028 is to do nothing to improve the foundation in 2023 and beyond.

This feels like a potentially perfect puzzle piece.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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Listening to Sam Vecenie's Game Theory podcast. Derrick White to Boston?
"I love that. Derrick White's really good. Like really really good. I can't imagine a more perfect defensive fit than him and Marcus Smart in a backcourt because Derrick is so smart off the ball but he's skinny. And he's better at defending ones and twos. And then being kind of a menace that flies around off the ball. Whereas Marcus can defend one through four with ease on the ball... in terms of switchability that is a terrifying defensive backcourt, that is such a good combination. They've already had the best defense since the calendar turned to 2022.They just upgraded their defense. This is going to be a really really **** hard team to score on now."
 

mcpickl

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In todays NBA you can never be sure. But the White deal raises the odds of both staying beyond their current contracts. That has to factor in to any analysis.
i think adding White does not change the odds Tatum/Brown staying beyond their current contracts whatsoever.
Sure it’s a small risk and there is risk with everything. There is also risk in not doing this deal while the Spurs move White elsewhere and we are hunting for some semblance of a PG this summer again. The Spurs had a ton of leverage knowing our backcourt situation and the inability to retain Schroder past this year.
i don’t think it’s a small risk. It’s a big risk, that you may think has a small chance of happening, but it’s too much of a downside for me for a non star.

like, people are so sure Boston will be better than San Antonio in six years, I guess because they have Tatum and brown.

the Celtics have Tatum and brown now(and smart, Rob and now white), the season is two thirds over, they’re pretty good, and they still protected this years pick thru the top 4.

it’s wild to me that thinking it’s too risky to have only top 1 protection (if that’s what it really is, I’m skeptical till I hear it from someone else besides BRobb) on a pick six years down the road is off base.
 

lexrageorge

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i think adding White does not change the odds Tatum/Brown staying beyond their current contracts whatsoever.


i don’t think it’s a small risk. It’s a big risk, that you may think has a small chance of happening, but it’s too much of a downside for me for a non star.

like, people are so sure Boston will be better than San Antonio in six years, I guess because they have Tatum and brown.

the Celtics have Tatum and brown now(and smart, Rob and now white), the season is two thirds over, they’re pretty good, and they still protected this years pick thru the top 4.

it’s wild to me that thinking it’s too risky to have only top 1 protection (if that’s what it really is, I’m skeptical till I hear it from someone else besides BRobb) on a pick six years down the road is off base.
I would much rather have Stevens focus on the current team than worry about a hypothetical Tatum-less team in 2028. If the hypothetical happens, which I really don't think is likely, it means that the Tlicts have bigger problems that a #4 pick in 2028 is unlikely to solve. I think you're overstating the probability of Tatum leaving.
 

benhogan

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i think adding White does not change the odds Tatum/Brown staying beyond their current contracts whatsoever.


i don’t think it’s a small risk. It’s a big risk, that you may think has a small chance of happening, but it’s too much of a downside for me for a non star.

like, people are so sure Boston will be better than San Antonio in six years, I guess because they have Tatum and brown.

the Celtics have Tatum and brown now(and smart, Rob and now white), the season is two thirds over, they’re pretty good, and they still protected this years pick thru the top 4.

it’s wild to me that thinking it’s too risky to have only top 1 protection (if that’s what it really is, I’m skeptical till I hear it from someone else besides BRobb) on a pick six years down the road is off base.
back of the envelope math for the pick swap:

50/50 chance it doesn't happen
Celtics are better: 0 spot jump
Spurs are better: on average a 14 spot jump

(14 + 0)/2 = 7

So in the interest of keeping this simple, the Celtics gave up on average 7 spots in the 2028 draft. Certainly not nothing
 

nighthob

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Again, I think this “squeeze every deal” mentality is the precise reason why Ainge got stuck holding his proverbial dick when the Celtics came upon that bolus of first rounders that they essentially didn’t need and couldn’t get value for.
When you have that many you can never get value. OKC is about to hit the same wall. Everyone knows that they can’t make all 17 picks over the next five years.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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To me, the way to value the pick swap is to essentially look at the most adverse outcome - the expected production difference between selecting at two and at 30 - and assume that is your exposure. As a side note, I would love to see the actual models for draft pick valuation across the league - not the players but the slots. Maybe they use an entirely different method too so it would be fascinating to see their approach. And again, perhaps I am wrong but in general it feels like the league values draft capital less than some fans/bloggers.
 

nighthob

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That sounds like me saying the Kyrie trade was a bad idea because adding Zizic was too much. I do believe I may have actually said that.
Take a victory lap, you were right the Irving trade was a terrible one. For both teams.
 

ragnarok725

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If anyone is interested in knowing more about White and his background, this video popped up as recommended after one of the highlights linked earlier. I like his story, and it seems like he has the mentality to continue growing. If he can improve the 3P shot, his contact will be a massive bargain.

View: https://youtu.be/1X1XHbcdIq4
 

bakahump

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This is exactly what the detractors are saying. White is ok for Richardson (baka's son aside), Langford makes it worse, the 2022 pick moreso but that largely unprotected 2028 swap is a bridge too far. They would have passed on White because of the 2028 pick swap is just too much. I assume that the Celtics would have preferred more protection and the Spurs wouldn't bite but maybe Stevens is a pushover.
TBF he is an NBA2K GMing savant....so his opinion shouldn't be dismissed.

I am slowly coming around on White. Hoping the Floor Chemistry makes it even more obvious what a good deal this was.

Should we be worried that mins will pile up for the 8 man rotation?

If you take Schroders mins (say 20 now that he isnt starting) + 24 for Josh and 16 for Romeo and you subtract 5 from Al (for Rest) and 5 from Rob (to keep him fresh).

Thats 70 mins.
Add in Theis for 22 and White for 30. That means we need to find somewhere between 15-20 mins a night. Maybe Nesmith....maybe some of PP.......maybe a few of Hauser.....and maybe some from a Buyout candidate (though arent they usually Front court players?)

That seems like alot of mins for some guys who take things off the table alot of the time.
 

joe dokes

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Stevens on White.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/11/sports/celtics-trade-deadline-analysis/

In the summer of 2019, former Celtics coach Brad Stevens was serving as an assistant with USA Basketball when he went to Las Vegas to help the team prepare for the FIBA World Cup.
That squad included Celtics Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. But Spurs guard Derrick White, a member of the USA Select team that was brought in to scrimmage against the main squad, truly caught Stevens’s eye.
 

Eddie Jurak

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i think adding White does not change the odds Tatum/Brown staying beyond their current contracts whatsoever.
I don't think White's brand matters at all (and that isn;t what I meant), but Stevens recognizing that there is a Tatum/Brown window and his showing willingess to deal around it does.
White may or may not play tonight
Well, the C's still have their starting 5, but without White and Theis they will be looking at a bench of Grant, Pritchard, Nesmith, two way guys Thomas and Hauser, and whichver 4 guys they bring up from Maine.
 

Toe Nash

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This isn't complicated. Given that they have two young stars already, if the Celtics are in the lottery in 2028, Brad will have made bigger mistakes than swapping a pick and will almost definitely not being the one cleaning up the mess. He's betting that if he is still here in 6 years they will be good enough for that not to matter very much.
 

mcpickl

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I would much rather have Stevens focus on the current team than worry about a hypothetical Tatum-less team in 2028. If the hypothetical happens, which I really don't think is likely, it means that the Tlicts have bigger problems that a #4 pick in 2028 is unlikely to solve. I think you're overstating the probability of Tatum leaving.
I’d rather Stevens focus on both the short term and the long term, because that’s what the job is.

i don’t know how I could overstate the probability of Tatum leaving because I haven’t put any odds on it. All I’ve said is, we have no idea whether he’ll be here or not. Go back and look at team rosters from six years ago and see how many guys have changed spots. Or teams that were good that now aren’t, and vice versa.

i think it’s just crazy to assume ah we’ll have this guy six years from now. That would be years 11 and 12 for Tatum and brown respectively. Do you know how rare it would be for them to still be here then? I think there are only three guys in the league currently in the league that have been on the same team for the last 11 years. Steph, Klay and Udonis Haslem. That’s it.
 

mcpickl

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I don't think White's brand matters at all (and that isn;t what I meant), but Stevens recognizing that there is a Tatum/Brown window and his showing willingess to deal around it does.
i didn’t say anything about White’s brand.

i don’t think any willingness to deal means anything either.

guys move

they move from bad teams, they move from good teams, they move from teams that make deals and teams that don’t.
 

Eddie Jurak

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i didn’t say anything about White’s brand.

i don’t think any willingness to deal means anything either.

guys move

they move from bad teams, they move from good teams, they move from teams that make deals and teams that don’t.
They don't move from situations (including financial) that they want to be in. Definitionally they do not.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The Theis deal is going to look really helpful when Horford is traded over the summer and TL inevitably misses some time. Daniel Theis is good at basketball when he's playing center on a good team.
Agreed.

Strategically, the Celtics picked up quality veterans which make Horford and Smart tradeable. Those two (plus picks) is easily the most viable path to a third star of some caliber. They even make trading TL somewhat viable, though I think that's probably actually unlikely.

That's a big deal in the multi-year view, imo.
 

mcpickl

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They don't move from situations (including financial) that they want to be in. Definitionally they do not.
sure, exactly three guys in the league haven’t moved in 11 years.

definitionally, how can you be so sure this will be a situation they want to be in?
 

Eddie Jurak

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sure, exactly three guys in the league haven’t moved in 11 years.

definitionally, how can you be so sure this will be a situation they want to be in?
We can't be certain. But part of the job of management is to make it one, to the extent that they can.
 

Jimbodandy

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That sounds like me saying the Kyrie trade was a bad idea because adding Zizic was too much. I do believe I may have actually said that.
We all do that for sure.

I remember when the Gagne trade went through (another bad trade for both teams), and I was bummed that Ryan Kalish's name was listed as a possible throw in. It ended up being the two 4A guys and Engel Beltre, none of whom did anything special. Nor did Kalish, and Gagne was raw sewage.

I'll never forget TRic asking me if I really was gonna lose sleep over a corner guy in low A, like enough that I would nuke the deal. And I realized, "no...I wouldn't", and that was the end of that.

Or does the return of Theis mean... A 3 BIG LINEUP!
Love that you said this out loud.
 
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mcpickl

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We can't be certain. But part of the job of management is to make it one, to the extent that they can.
this is my whole point.

We can’t have any level of certainty Tatum will be here in six years, so just penciling him in saying who cares if that pick isn’t protected in six years because we got Tatum, seems off base to me.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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this is my whole point.

We can’t have any level of certainty Tatum will be here in six years, so just penciling him in saying who cares if that pick is protected in six years because we got Tatum, seems off base to me.
I think he threw in the pick because it closed the deal and because in most circumstances it won't be a huge loss. Could be the Spurs that are bad in 2028 - I doubt Pop will still be coaching them.