Celtics Sign Tacko Fall

Jimbodandy

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Holy shit guys. He is an undrafted super tall dude who has a miniscule chance of even making a roster. To even mention him as a counterplay to Giannis is ludicrous
Not to mention that we have no business worrying about who's checking Giannis.

Kid was useful in the one game that most of us saw him play, and in a high leverage situation against NBA talent at that. But there isn't much smaller of a sample size than 1.

Rooting for him, but he's likely spending a ton of time in Maine next season. Possibly all season.
 

benhogan

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Holy shit guys. He is an undrafted super tall dude who has a miniscule chance of even making a roster. To even mention him as a counterplay to Giannis is ludicrous
Giannis posterizing Tacko Fall 3x in 3 minutes would become a SportsCenter darling.

Brad will know by next January if Tacko can effectively lay his body, for 5-10mpg, on classic BIGs that don't shoot the 3 well (Drummond, Nurkic, Whiteside, DJ, etc). That's probably his year 1 ceiling.

Tacko's floor is he gets cut by the end of Summer League.
 

EL Jeffe

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Not sure how to link on mobile but summer league coach said Tacko has been very impressive in practice and more mobile than expected. So there's that.
 

The Social Chair

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GQ had an interesting Q&A with Tacko that was conducted before the draft.

What is your least favorite question about your height?
It’s a lot of questions and bad jokes. “How’s the weather up there? Do you play basketball?” Most of the time, I don’t mind, but when I’m in a rush and have to be somewhere, it can be a problem. Once you stop once, everybody wants to talk and take pictures. I get it to some degree, but at the time, I don’t want to be a freak show. I’m still human.
 

EL Jeffe

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Certainly! It was a Jay King tweet where the C's summer league coach was talking about Tacko. Take it for what it is worth, but at this point, Tacko has a chance of playing his way into a spot. In any event, Morrison was saying Tacko was looking very impressive.
 

lovegtm

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Certainly! It was a Jay King tweet where the C's summer league coach was talking about Tacko. Take it for what it is worth, but at this point, Tacko has a chance of playing his way into a spot. In any event, Morrison was saying Tacko was looking very impressive.
Yeah just messing with ya. Trying to damp my expectations, see how things go, and just enjoy the season for what it is and how it goes. Last year wasn’t fun.
 

TripleOT

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Tacko moved well in the first Sl game, and showed some things a really big center needs to show -- Soft hands on the three buckets he made, and a couple of post up situations where he took his time and got an easy shot off. One was converted, and the other rolled off the rim and he deftly gathered a loose carom and tiptoe--dunked it after the whistle. One his third and last bucket, the Cs ran out 4 on 3, and the cutting wing for some reason decided to make a dump off pass to Fall, who was running straight to the rim. Tacko caught the short pass, gathered, extended his ridiculously long arm, and shot down on the basket quite easily over Pelle, who is a shot blocker.

Defensively, he showed some awareness on how to zone up the paint with his long reach without being in there for three seconds.

 

EL Jeffe

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I believe you can only have two players on 2-way contracts. Strus has one right now, and I think the conventional wisdom was Waters would get the other one. Personally, I'd keep Fall over Waters. I like Waters, but it's not hard finding a 5'10 pg. You can always bring in a Larkin or Wanamaker type. Fall looked like he belonged on the court, so I'd rather Boston kept working with him.

I'm bullish on Strus, who I believe is set to play tonight. 6'6, 215#, can shoot the hell out of the ball and has some hops. The Celtics brass was talking him up as a 3 & D prospect, and those guys are always valuable.
 

BigMike

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How do you not hang onto this kid's rights? Feels like a no-brainer to me, at least for a year.
He seems to me like a guy you either like enough to have on the bench and play or you don't. i don't think there is much upside, much development to come for him. I think he might be able to play 8 min a night in the NBA, at least against some opponents, but I don't really see him developing and becoming more than that.

Not sure what the rights situation is for these summer league players, can a guy like Fall negotiate with other teams, if there is a spot where he may have a better chance at NBA
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I believe you can only have two players on 2-way contracts. Strus has one right now, and I think the conventional wisdom was Waters would get the other one. Personally, I'd keep Fall over Waters. I like Waters, but it's not hard finding a 5'10 pg. You can always bring in a Larkin or Wanamaker type. Fall looked like he belonged on the court, so I'd rather Boston kept working with him.

I'm bullish on Strus, who I believe is set to play tonight. 6'6, 215#, can shoot the hell out of the ball and has some hops. The Celtics brass was talking him up as a 3 & D prospect, and those guys are always valuable.
I think Waters signs the two-way contract and Fall signs with Maine. Fall signed an Exhibit 10 K with the Cs after he could have signed anywhere, which means that if he spends 60 days with the Cs G League team, he gets a bonus (between $5K and $50K): https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/6/21/18701474/tacko-fall-signs-exhibit-10-contract-with-boston-celtics. I read somewhere that he and his agent specifically chose the Cs because of both organization and chance to develop.

If he wanted to go somewhere else, he probably would have chose that team.

Obviously all that goes out the window if someone offers him a NBA contract or he gets a big offer to go o overseas but developmentally, Tacko shouldn't be playing the NBA next year. He should be getting reps in the G-League (or overseas).
 

Captaincoop

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Strus reads like the next Abdel Nader to me, but I haven't seen him play.

Based on the limited info, it seems more valuable to hang on to the 7'5 monster who might be able to play a small role for the big team than to hang onto a fringe wing, but maybe they see something there.

Edit: reading the post above, sounds like they have a way to keep both.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Strus reads like the next Abdel Nader to me, but I haven't seen him play.
Abdel Nader was picked #58. He currently has 0.8 WS (-0.1 with BOS; + 0.9 with OKC last year). Do you know in the history of the NBA, how many #58 draft picks have more WS than he does?

These eight players: Kurt Rambis; Tom Owens; Henry Bibby; Earl Cureton; Don Reid; Maceo Baston; Robbie Hummel; and Jordan McRae. Rambis, Owens, and Bibby are outliers. Cureton and Reid accumulated WS by playing a long time (674 and 403 games, respectively, as backups). Jordan McRae has 1.0 WS.

Maybe Nader wasn't a home run, but even thus far, he was a solid single to the opposite field and maybe gets into the gap for extra bases.

 

Euclis20

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Yeah, he is currently 32nd in his draft class in WS. Does it matter that he was the 58th pick and they got better than expected value for the spot? It's like being told there's money in an old coat pocket, reaching it and pulling out a nickel. Great, it's not a penny. It's still just about worthless.
 

bowiac

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Nader has returned zero value. That list is mostly showing the flaws of win shares, not telling us anything about Nader being "solid single." He hasn't displayed any indication of being an NBA quality player so far.
 

NomarsFool

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On offense, anywhere near the basket he looks pretty good. He looks pretty reasonable taking a step or two and pivoting and putting the ball in the hoop. Aside from fouling him, he looks pretty hard to defend. Of course, that is one of his biggest weaknesses is that his foul shooting is atrocious. But, that is something that isn't hard to work on and improve (I would think).

Defensively, he didn't look that great at rebounding. Of course with his height and wingspan he was able to snatch some boards out of the air by chance. But, he definitely needs work on his technique and skills there. But, this is a kid who hasn't played a ton of organized basketball. I think he is worth holding onto and investing in. I think he has a really good chance of being a player that can come into a game and throw a wrench in the other team's plans with his (eventual) shot blocking ability and just catching lobs near the basket.
 

Kliq

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I like that he has really good hands and catches the ball up high; using his height to his full advantage. I also thought in the Philly game he showed decent skills in the pivot and looked somewhat comfortable making a post move close to the basket; his efficiency thwarted a bit by the fact that Philly had a 7'4" guy to guard him; against a more average-sized NBA center he will probably fare better.
 

Captaincoop

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Yes. The things Fall could potentially do as a bright, coachable, 7'6 guy with at least some mobility - seem to make him worth keeping over an undrafted FA 6'6 wing. At that size, there isn't a lot you have to learn to become at least a useful role player.

But if the Celtics have a way to keep them both, great.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He seems to me like a guy you either like enough to have on the bench and play or you don't. i don't think there is much upside, much development to come for him. I think he might be able to play 8 min a night in the NBA, at least against some opponents, but I don't really see him developing and becoming more than that.

Not sure what the rights situation is for these summer league players, can a guy like Fall negotiate with other teams, if there is a spot where he may have a better chance at NBA
Interesting perspective but I have it as exactly the opposite. It is difficult for a big to jump right into an NBA schemed defense or adjust to playing against NBA rules after college teams game planned for years against you by utilizing zone defenses on one end while not having to defend high screens on the other. Despite all this he was a dominant force while showing mobility and a knack for having solid ball skills. His problems will be learning how to adapt to defending the high screens and rotations, increasing stamina, and learning how to defend without fouling...….these should not be occurring in real live NBA games unless you're in tank mode. The G-League's structure is designed with guys like Tacko Fall in mind.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, he is currently 32nd in his draft class in WS. Does it matter that he was the 58th pick and they got better than expected value for the spot? It's like being told there's money in an old coat pocket, reaching it and pulling out a nickel. Great, it's not a penny. It's still just about worthless.
That he received 600 or so minutes from two competent franchises the last two years shows that he does, in fact, have value....but it's awfully limited value for sure. I think your analogy is pretty much spot on....Nader (to date, and in my estimately for however long he's in the NBA) is a guy with little upside whose value is solely that he's "less bad" than other guys at the end of many benches. That's higher expected value than the average pick in his range...but I think unless you're in a situation like this year's Lakers where anyone non-horrendous might be needed, I'd rather see a shot at a guy who might actually be a useful rotation player.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's not his value relative to similar draft picks that matter, but his overall value, period.
Yeah, he is currently 32nd in his draft class in WS. Does it matter that he was the 58th pick and they got better than expected value for the spot? It's like being told there's money in an old coat pocket, reaching it and pulling out a nickel. Great, it's not a penny. It's still just about worthless.
Wait, I don't get this.

The conversation began when someone said that Max Strus "reads like" Abdel Nader. My point is that Abdel Nader, who averaged 13.8 minutes in 47 of OKC's last 50 games, appears to have a chance to be a NBA rotation player, which to me is the generally the best case scenario for a #58 draft pick or a UDFA.

The Cs, from what little available, seems to be fairly high on Strus. (I think it was Morrison who said that if he can stay healthy he would be a "steal"). Strus can shoot and since they see him as a "3 & D" guy, he can presumably defend a bit. Which would be great as a UDFA if he can do that.

As such, I don't believe they are going to replace him on a two-way with Tacko, but as I said before, I would assume that Tacko is going to be with Maine unless he gets a huge overseas offer.
 

Kliq

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I think in general it is hard to compare Tacko and what his potential is to other, more standard, fringe players. A guy like Nader or Strus is a typical fringe-NBA player; someone who has a few skills that are useful but not terribly difficult to find, and can soak up minutes without getting killed by NBA competition.

Tacko's ceiling is a limited NBA player, but with a very hard to replicate skill set with the idea being that for 5-10 minutes per game he can really alter a game on both ends of the floor. If you think he is never going to be good enough to play 15 minutes in the NBA, then you go the safe route and keep Strus; but even if you think there is a small chance he could be a rotational player in the NBA, I feel like you have to keep Tacko over a player like Strus who is easier to replace.
 

Big John

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At the moment I'm keeping Waters ahead of either of them, depending on how the rest of the Summer shakes out.
 

Big John

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What’s the case for Waters? I legitimately don’t know—haven’t followed him much.
Well, let me start with the case against him: He's 5-9 or thereabouts, and in his first Summer game he had trouble finishing in traffic.

Everything else is a positive: high BBIQ, plays hard, excellent passer, 3 point range and (most importantly for me) he's a steals machine on the perimeter. If he's defending, you put the ball on the floor at your peril. He was the SEC defensive player of the year as a freshman.
 

NomarsFool

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There's a scenario where Waters could also be a player that screws up opposing teams by coming in for 5 minutes and just giving the other team's ballhandler a nervous breakdown by playing aggressive defense. That said, I'd be fairly surprised if he makes the Celtics roster this season. Wannamaker seems like a safer bet.
 

Eddie Jurak

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There's a scenario where Waters could also be a player that screws up opposing teams by coming in for 5 minutes and just giving the other team's ballhandler a nervous breakdown by playing aggressive defense.
In other words, the Shane Larkin role, something the Celtics did not have anyone to fill last year. Whether he’s ready for that next year is another question, but a 2-way deal would seem to make sense.
 

benhogan

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Well, let me start with the case against him: He's 5-9 or thereabouts, and in his first Summer game he had trouble finishing in traffic.

Everything else is a positive: high BBIQ, plays hard, excellent passer, 3 point range and (most importantly for me) he's a steals machine on the perimeter. If he's defending, you put the ball on the floor at your peril. He was the SEC defensive player of the year as a freshman.
I could see Waters being pesky. Picking up full-court defense, getting under taller PGs. He was DPOY in the SEC last season, he must have been a special little guy to get that honor.

I recall a bunch of "small" guards (Kemba, Trey Burke, JJ Barea, VanVleet) burning us last season, Smart doesn't seem to handle them well. Plenty of small PG's (Trey Young, Lou Will) he could help on defense(in small spurts) if he really is a plus defender.

Not bad to have him deep on the bench as depth and use him in special situations to be a pain in the neck. Fan favorite kind of guy

*what Eddie and Nomar said above
 

Kliq

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I don't understand why Larkin is back in Europe, unless he just got a sweeter contract. He was solid his one year in Boston and shot 36 percent from three; feel like he could have gotten a contract somewhere, if not Boston.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't understand why Larkin is back in Europe, unless he just got a sweeter contract. He was solid his one year in Boston and shot 36 percent from three; feel like he could have gotten a contract somewhere, if not Boston.
He is small, older and doesn't do anything particularly well. Why spend a roster spot on a guy like that when teams can find G-league players who provide the same production?
 

TripleOT

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Really small PGs have a learning curve to getting their shot off in an NBA game. Waters had trouble getting his shot off both on drives and on the perimeter, but he seems like a smart player, and has a crazy handle. A few plays after not being able to get his jumper off, Waters used a really quick escape dribble to the left to find clear sky for a made jumper.
 

chilidawg

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In other words, the Shane Larkin role, something the Celtics did not have anyone to fill last year. Whether he’s ready for that next year is another question, but a 2-way deal would seem to make sense.
Wouldn't Edwards fit that role to a T?
 

benhogan

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Wouldn't Edwards fit that role to a T?
I'd love to see a VanVleet progression. Fred eventually started getting minutes towards the end of his rookie year.
Really good 2nd yr.
A key contributor off the bench to a Championship his 3rd year

Similar size, shooter, older rookie, excellent college career, kind of overlooked at the draft.


 

Big John

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I see Edwards as Eddie House. He's instant offense, not a point guard. In fact, several of Edwards' baskets came on nice feeds from Waters.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Karalis made a good case for not getting too excited about Tacko today. Basically, is there a reason to think he's better than Boban, who can barely see the floor in the NBA?
 

DrewDawg

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Boban played 10 minutes/game in postseason for Sixers, that’s not nothing. I’m not sure anyone here thinks Tacko is going to be more than that.
 

lovegtm

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Boban played 10 minutes/game in postseason for Sixers, that’s not nothing. I’m not sure anyone here thinks Tacko is going to be more than that.
Yeah, I'm not getting too excited about him, but the East has a couple specific matchups where it would be nice to have a huge guy who stays near the paint and gives his guy a cushion. (Giannis, Embiid)
 

PedroKsBambino

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His upside is a valuable role player who is match-up specific. Help side defender vs Giannis, for example, could be impactful. Second unit help side defender. Stuff like that. He has some lateral movement, which is fairly unique for his size.

He’s a very different profile than Boban, who has actual offensive skill but is really slow and also materially shorter than Tacko (though not clear their reach is that different)—and likely not the defensive skill.
 

BigSoxFan

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Boban played 10 minutes/game in postseason for Sixers, that’s not nothing. I’m not sure anyone here thinks Tacko is going to be more than that.
Yeah, I love the classic “cool your jets” SoSH posts. Nobody here thinks we’re getting Bill Russell. Tacko seems like a good kid who is fun to root for and has an outside chance of developing into a niche defensive weapon. That’s good enough for me.