Celtics sign Jabari Parker

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Not to derail but on the shooting issue...I don’t know what’s going on with the player or what but I’d be giving a guy like Nesmith a long leash. He might end up being terrible. Totally possible. But he’s also a guy with the pedigree to be a major solution to the problem mentioned above. Shooting.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
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Dec 12, 2002
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Not to derail but on the shooting issue...I don’t know what’s going on with the player or what but I’d be giving a guy like Nesmith a long leash. He might end up being terrible. Totally possible. But he’s also a guy with the pedigree to be a major solution to the problem mentioned above. Shooting.
They are at a point where they ought to be looking at different guys, such as Nesmith. It doesn't make sense to ride starts and guys who will definitely not be part of the next great Celtics team in order to nail down the (nonexistant) 12th seed.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
24,671
Trade Smart for shooting. I’m on the phone and can’t look it up at the moment to see a match but there has to be a team that could really use a guy like Smart but who has some available shooting. Play Nesmith a lot just to see what he can be. Use Richardson in the Smart role if you feel you still need a guy who can’t really shoot but can defend 1-3.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
8,234
I’m skeptical Smart has that much value. He obviously has some skills, but he’s also having a really poor season offensively and that gets noticed.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Not to derail but on the shooting issue...I don’t know what’s going on with the player or what but I’d be giving a guy like Nesmith a long leash. He might end up being terrible. Totally possible. But he’s also a guy with the pedigree to be a major solution to the problem mentioned above. Shooting.
When does that pedigree become useless? He's regressed from his rookie year (SSS) which is never a good sign. He hasn't really put together a good stretch of games either.

I'd like him to get more minutes too but that requires trading DS. As is, AN doesn't deserve minutes on this team.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
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Nov 10, 2006
6,096
I’m skeptical Smart has that much value. He obviously has some skills, but he’s also having a really poor season offensively and that gets noticed.
Smart's valuable to a team where he doesn't need to handle the ball much and can just take six or so shots a game. The problem is he's not as uncommon as we think he is. He would useful to, for example, a team like Golden State (if they didn't already have Draymond!), the Bucks if they didn't already have Jrue Holiday, the Heat if they didn't already have Kyle Lowry... you get the point.

The 76ers without Ben Simmons could really use him. The Cavs without Rubio, too. I have to think the Hornets would love to have him too (though they really need rim protection). Maybe Memphis would want to flip him for Tyus Jones? Those are all teams with enough shooters and ball-handlers that Smart can focus on what he does best.

But at the end of the day I agree that the Celtics probably wouldn't get enough back from the other team that it matters - unless Smart is a part of a bigger deal with something else.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I’m skeptical Smart has that much value. He obviously has some skills, but he’s also having a really poor season offensively and that gets noticed.
Trade him to the Hawks. Ask for Reddish, settle for Huerter.

Problem with trading Smart is the team has no PG, so trading him or DS requires bringing a PG in. I guess they could go with PP and BT.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
20,309
Santa Monica
Trade him to the Hawks. Ask for Reddish, settle for Huerter.

Problem with trading Smart is the team has no PG, so trading him or DS requires bringing a PG in. I guess they could go with PP and BT.
JRich could play minutes there. BUT I'm not sure IME likes him so much since JRich's mpg have been cut from past seasons

Landing a real, future PG appears to be this summer's job. Coby White has played his way into key role status on the Bulls, so that particular pipe dream has ended.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
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Jan 15, 2004
30,278
Trade him to the Hawks. Ask for Reddish, settle for Huerter.

Problem with trading Smart is the team has no PG, so trading him or DS requires bringing a PG in. I guess they could go with PP and BT.
Reddish is a rich mans Nesmith. Hard pass on him please.
 

NomarsFool

Member
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Dec 21, 2001
8,234
Smart's valuable to a team where he doesn't need to handle the ball much and can just take six or so shots a game. The problem is he's not as uncommon as we think he is. He would useful to, for example, a team like Golden State (if they didn't already have Draymond!), the Bucks if they didn't already have Jrue Holiday, the Heat if they didn't already have Kyle Lowry... you get the point.

The 76ers without Ben Simmons could really use him. The Cavs without Rubio, too. I have to think the Hornets would love to have him too (though they really need rim protection). Maybe Memphis would want to flip him for Tyus Jones? Those are all teams with enough shooters and ball-handlers that Smart can focus on what he does best.

But at the end of the day I agree that the Celtics probably wouldn't get enough back from the other team that it matters - unless Smart is a part of a bigger deal with something else.
Are teams really that interested in having a guy play a lot of minutes with so little contribution on the offensive end? Even on the defensive end, it's not like teams can just put him on the other team's best player and shut him down because teams can switch them off anyway.

Marcus Smart, in my opinion, has one truly elite skill. The guy really has an unbelievable ability to come up with big, clutch defensive plays in important moments. If there was a time when I absolutely needed to get a steal, or take a charge - Marcus Smart is the guy I want on the court. He's amazing at that. The problem is, the rest of the game, I just don't think he contributes that much and as much as he contributes, he probably takes away. I will give him credit that he is taking about 1 less 3-pointer per game this season than last, and almost 2 less 3 pointers per game than two seasons ago. On the other hand, he's shooting the 3 at less than 30% this year - so thank goodness he's not putting up 6 1/2 3PAs this season.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
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Nov 10, 2006
6,096
Are teams really that interested in having a guy play a lot of minutes with so little contribution on the offensive end? Even on the defensive end, it's not like teams can just put him on the other team's best player and shut him down because teams can switch them off anyway.

Marcus Smart, in my opinion, has one truly elite skill. The guy really has an unbelievable ability to come up with big, clutch defensive plays in important moments. If there was a time when I absolutely needed to get a steal, or take a charge - Marcus Smart is the guy I want on the court. He's amazing at that. The problem is, the rest of the game, I just don't think he contributes that much and as much as he contributes, he probably takes away. I will give him credit that he is taking about 1 less 3-pointer per game this season than last, and almost 2 less 3 pointers per game than two seasons ago. On the other hand, he's shooting the 3 at less than 30% this year - so thank goodness he's not putting up 6 1/2 3PAs this season.
I don't disagree with really anything here. I do think he's definitely shooting below what he's capable of from three by quite a bit. I don't think he'll fetch much but he might be able to net us another player of comparable value who's a better fit. I do think he contributes playmaking and on a team where he's surrounded by shooters who can also make plays... a player like that can be very useful.

At the end of the day, I enjoy watching him play. I just wish he would hit like 35% of his threes. If he'd do that, he'd be super valuable.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
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Are teams really that interested in having a guy play a lot of minutes with so little contribution on the offensive end? Even on the defensive end, it's not like teams can just put him on the other team's best player and shut him down because teams can switch them off anyway.

Marcus Smart, in my opinion, has one truly elite skill. The guy really has an unbelievable ability to come up with big, clutch defensive plays in important moments. If there was a time when I absolutely needed to get a steal, or take a charge - Marcus Smart is the guy I want on the court. He's amazing at that. The problem is, the rest of the game, I just don't think he contributes that much and as much as he contributes, he probably takes away. I will give him credit that he is taking about 1 less 3-pointer per game this season than last, and almost 2 less 3 pointers per game than two seasons ago. On the other hand, he's shooting the 3 at less than 30% this year - so thank goodness he's not putting up 6 1/2 3PAs this season.
According to cleaning the glass, he has the best net rating (excluding garbage time minutes) on the team among regulars at +6.3, which points him 81st percentile in the NBA. I don't think that's by accident.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,658
Are teams really that interested in having a guy play a lot of minutes with so little contribution on the offensive end? Even on the defensive end, it's not like teams can just put him on the other team's best player and shut him down because teams can switch them off anyway.

Marcus Smart, in my opinion, has one truly elite skill. The guy really has an unbelievable ability to come up with big, clutch defensive plays in important moments. If there was a time when I absolutely needed to get a steal, or take a charge - Marcus Smart is the guy I want on the court. He's amazing at that. The problem is, the rest of the game, I just don't think he contributes that much and as much as he contributes, he probably takes away. I will give him credit that he is taking about 1 less 3-pointer per game this season than last, and almost 2 less 3 pointers per game than two seasons ago. On the other hand, he's shooting the 3 at less than 30% this year - so thank goodness he's not putting up 6 1/2 3PAs this season.
He's actually not a terrible contributor on offense, he just can't space, in lineups with shooters and when he limits his 3pt attempts he grades out pretty well because he is a good passer at the 2, and he's somewhat effective in the lane/foul line.

As to his value, Hollinger was talking Hawks trades and Smart came up, I think he had it as at least 1 first (but likely 2), Wright and Dieng, plus something to get OKC to eat a deal (he said Wright, but presumably the Celtics would want to keep Wright and have OKC eat Juancho instead, think he just wasn't looking at the Celtics' roster because it was a Hawks discussion) to ensure that Boston got out of the tax and ATL stayed out of the tax as well.
 

Jakarta

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Dec 18, 2020
244
Are teams really that interested in having a guy play a lot of minutes with so little contribution on the offensive end? Even on the defensive end, it's not like teams can just put him on the other team's best player and shut him down because teams can switch them off anyway.

Marcus Smart, in my opinion, has one truly elite skill. The guy really has an unbelievable ability to come up with big, clutch defensive plays in important moments. If there was a time when I absolutely needed to get a steal, or take a charge - Marcus Smart is the guy I want on the court. He's amazing at that. The problem is, the rest of the game, I just don't think he contributes that much and as much as he contributes, he probably takes away. I will give him credit that he is taking about 1 less 3-pointer per game this season than last, and almost 2 less 3 pointers per game than two seasons ago. On the other hand, he's shooting the 3 at less than 30% this year - so thank goodness he's not putting up 6 1/2 3PAs this season.
Does he really have a clutch defensive skill? Or is it that in the last few minutes of a game he is able to empty the tank after conserving energy during the rest of the game?
He seems to have an incredible ability to come up with loose balls, and other hustle type plays during the rest of the game as well. It makes me think he should really be a 5th option on offense so that he conserves his energy there so he can be a defensive terror the whole game. Unfortunately, he is (or at least thinks he is) too often about the 3rd best offensive option so he expends too much energy on that end of the floor. If they could get better offensive players on the floor, I suspect they could get Marcus to embrace his role as a Tony Allen type.

If Ime would replace one of the two bigs with PP in the starting lineup, it would seem to give everyone a much more defined role - Tatum and JB as the primary guys, 1 big guy to set screens and protect the rim, PP as a shooter to space the floor and try to hide on the opponents weakest guard, and Smart to sit in the corner on offense, shoot open corner 3s and drove close outs and give all his energy to being the best defensive player he can be.

Then the other big, DS, JR, and Grant off the bench gives that unit better balance and depth.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
20,309
Santa Monica
If Ime would replace one of the two bigs with PP in the starting lineup, it would seem to give everyone a much more defined role - Tatum and JB as the primary guys, 1 big guy to set screens and protect the rim, PP as a shooter to space the floor and try to hide on the opponents weakest guard, and Smart to sit in the corner on offense, shoot open corner 3s and drove close outs and give all his energy to being the best defensive player he can be.

Then the other big, DS, JR, and Grant off the bench gives that unit better balance and depth.
No thanks on PP starting, his defense in IME's switch everything scheme, against starters would be attacked relentlessly. That's too large of a defensive dropoff for the 3rd or 4th scoring option. I understand the C's need better spacing/3pt shooting and agree that the 2BIGZ needs to end. One of Granite or JRich should start, since both can help open up/spread the floor. Either of those two can effectively play the defense IME wants

Horford, DS, Grant or JRich + a JAY 2nd unit will have plenty of scoring (the Celtics strongest bench since the Kyrie Years)

By Feb 10 Brad will probably have moved DS for assets and PP can take on his role as a bench scorer