Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

the moops

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Rubio makes 17.8 million. Unless I am missing something the only way to get there is to trade Smart, or TT + a bunch of young guys, which seems unwise if the prize is Ricky Rubio
 

benhogan

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Rubio makes 17.8 million. Unless I am missing something the only way to get there is to trade Smart, or TT + a bunch of young guys, which seems unwise if the prize is Ricky Rubio
couldn't they use one of their TPEs to trade for a ~7MM/yr player to move with TT?
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I think TT + the Kemba $6.9m trade exception/player works.
You can't combine a TPE with a player to match salaries.

That said, I'd do TT+ Nesmith for Rubio. Not sure if ownership would be ok taking on that salary though. It might preclude Fournier.
 

JM3

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You can't combine a TPE with a player to match salaries.

That said, I'd do TT+ Nesmith for Rubio. Not sure if ownership would be ok taking on that salary though. It might preclude Fournier.
They can stack transactions, though, right? Trade the exception for a non-entity player & move him along in the deal, or does that not work either?

I should read the FAQ again some day...
 

HomeRunBaker

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You can't combine a TPE with a player to match salaries.

That said, I'd do TT+ Nesmith for Rubio. Not sure if ownership would be ok taking on that salary though. It might preclude Fournier.
There are going to be other shoes to drop too. I don’t really expect us to overpay to win the Fournier sweepstakes anyway.
 

benhogan

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They can stack transactions, though, right? Trade the exception for a non-entity player & move him along in the deal, or does that not work either?

I should read the FAQ again some day...
yep. it also recycles/extends that TPE to another club, may even get a late 2nd for taking a $6.9MM expiring
 

lexrageorge

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They can stack transactions, though, right? Trade the exception for a non-entity player & move him along in the deal, or does that not work either?

I should read the FAQ again some day...
I think they can acquire a player into the exception. And then flip that player to another team as part of a larger trade. But they would need to be 2 distinct trade transactions.
 

nighthob

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Rubio makes 17.8 million. Unless I am missing something the only way to get there is to trade Smart, or TT + a bunch of young guys, which seems unwise if the prize is Ricky Rubio
The Celtics were not a taxpaying team in 2021, so the trade rule for outgoing salary is that for amounts between (roughly) $7 million and $20 million you can take back the outgoing salary plus $5 million. So Edwards and Brown are enough to make up the necessary salary if combined with Thompson.

That would be for deals prior to the calendar change, I believe that Boston's a taxpayer for '22 which would mean that the incoming could be no more than 125% + 100k if the deal falls in the next fiscal year. The Walker deal did put them far enough below the line, so it does open up Rubio as an option for next year without touching core players.
 
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benhogan

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The Celtics were not a taxpaying team in 2021, so the trade rule for outgoing salary is that for amounts between (roughly) $7 million and $20 million you can take back the outgoing salary plus $5 million. So Edwards and Brown are enough to make up the necessary salary if combined with Thompson.

That would be for deals prior to the calendar change, I believe that Boston's a taxpayer for '22 which would mean that the incoming could be no more than 125% + 100k if the deal falls in the next fiscal year. The Walker deal did put them below the line, so it does open up Rubio as an option for next year without touching core players.
thank you

just checking...can the Celtics acquire a player using the TPE then immediately move that player?
 

the moops

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Regardless of the money, I would onyl take Rubio if it is something like TT and filler. No way I am giving up an asset like Nesmith. Even if you are down on Nesmith, him on a rookie deal with a coupe years control, is way more valuable.

I live in the twin cities, and maybe that has something to do with it. We had high hopes of the Rubio years, and never manifested
 

nighthob

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I agree with you. Rubio's a placeholder. Luckily Thompson and filler makes the necessary salary. If they were willing to take a second for Culver just to cut salary I might pitch out three of them for Culver (into the remaining Hayward TPE) and Rubio. (Separate deals on paper to meet trade guidelines.)
 

Cesar Crespo

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That was quick. Hope it's not a Struss situation again where they were too quick to reward one of their 2 ways.
 

chilidawg

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Stole this from the draft thread:

"Few players in his draft range share his upside, as he likely would have entered this upcoming season as a projected top-20 pick had he elected to withdraw his name from the draft at the deadline. Instead, Begarin intends to come to the NBA immediately and work his way up through the G League, unless the Celtics can convince him to reconsider that after summer league." -- Jonathan Givony

So maybe Begarin, and probably Hauser too.
 

128

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Nice Hauser stat:
View: https://twitter.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1421198069522059271/photo/1


Best career stationary shooter of the guys who were eligible for this year's draft.
If he can not embarrass himself on D that looks like a bench player in the NBA... in particular that filthy % on high volumes of guarded no-dribble 3s is very encouraging.
I know Sam pretty well, and he's a tremendous kid with great character. Defense, as you note, will be the big hurdle for him to clear, but if he doesn't make it, it won't be for lack of effort.

His kid brother, Joey, was thought to be the better prospect of the two, but he had an up-and-down year after transferring from Marquette to Michigan State (and sitting out the 2019-20 season).
 

Cellar-Door

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One notable thing......
If they aren't signing EF (big if) there are a lot of expiring deals right now.
Gives you an outside chance at making space for beal (probably costs Horford, Richardson, Smart and TL leaving for nothing but still possible)
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It feels as if we are at an inflection point for love and trust. It really seems as if Smart is either about to be dealt or extended.

If its the former, I will probably feel dread watching the Cs play Smart's new team. He might shoot 29% on volume against them but he is also likely to invent a new form of chaos in trying to blow up Boston sets. His detractors here will probably enjoy contemplating that scenario...until its realized. I have Smart money if it happens.
 

Sprowl

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Under Brad Stevens, the Celtics have gotten rid of the smurfs and the behemoths, and come a lot closer to realizing All Switch, All the Time. Most of the guards are now 6'4" or taller (Payton Pritchard should rent, not buy). All the bigs are slim and switchable, even Ancient Al. Richardson and Langford look like defensive specialists, and while Nesmith isn't a specialist yet, he showed the willingness and ability to play peripatetic perimeter defense. If the Celtics lose Fournier as well as Walker, they will have fewer shot makers, and the Two Jays will have higher usage than ever.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Under Brad Stevens, the Celtics have gotten rid of the smurfs and the behemoths, and come a lot closer to realizing All Switch, All the Time. Most of the guards are now 6'4" or taller (Payton Pritchard should rent, not buy). All the bigs are slim and switchable, even Ancient Al. Richardson and Langford look like defensive specialists, and while Nesmith isn't a specialist yet, he showed the willingness and ability to play peripatetic perimeter defense. If the Celtics lose Fournier as well as Walker, they will have fewer shot makers, and the Two Jays will have higher usage than ever.
Smart will be more aggressive without Fournier and Walker around especially being in a contract year. The more apparent it becomes that Brad is preparing for a Beal max next summer the more apparent it becomes that Smart isn’t going anywhere right now as his expiring slot provides needed flexibility. I’ve never felt Fournier was returning here since he’s a FA and one of Danny’s guys and J-Rich essentially replaces the depth we lose in Evan.

You also have to expect Romeo and Nesmith to be more aggressive offensively after their first normal professional offseason. Most of all however is that we got used to not having Jaylen on the floor but shot creation with him out there next to Tatum should be the last of our problems.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It feels as if we are at an inflection point for love and trust. It really seems as if Smart is either about to be dealt or extended.

If its the former, I will probably feel dread watching the Cs play Smart's new team. He might shoot 29% on volume against them but he is also likely to invent a new form of chaos in trying to blow up Boston sets. His detractors here will probably enjoy contemplating that scenario...until its realized. I have Smart money if it happens.
I hope he isn't going anywhere.
Under Brad Stevens, the Celtics have gotten rid of the smurfs and the behemoths, and come a lot closer to realizing All Switch, All the Time. Most of the guards are now 6'4" or taller (Payton Pritchard should rent, not buy). All the bigs are slim and switchable, even Ancient Al. Richardson and Langford look like defensive specialists, and while Nesmith isn't a specialist yet, he showed the willingness and ability to play peripatetic perimeter defense. If the Celtics lose Fournier as well as Walker, they will have fewer shot makers, and the Two Jays will have higher usage than ever.
It would be a shame for Smart to be moved right when the Celtics are building his ideal team.
Smart will be more aggressive without Fournier and Walker around especially being in a contract year.
Don't know if I buy that aggression is Smart's road to a better contract. Certainly not if we are talking shot selection.
 

Fishy1

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I hope he isn't going anywhere.
It would be a shame for Smart to be moved right when the Celtics are building his ideal team.
Don't know if I buy that aggression is Smart's road to a better contract. Certainly not if we are talking shot selection.
Losing Smart might be painful, but it also might be necessary to fit Beal next year, and hopefully one of the young guys - whether it be Dunn, Langford, or someone else - can fill the swiss army knife role.

As for contract year Smart, assuming Smart will be rational about his shot selection doesn't quite square with my experience of watching him. Unless Ime institutes a new set of rules, I think we can assume Smart will continue to take 5-6 3's a game. Ive always thought it was possible Smart would make a leap in efficiency in the next couple years, but if he does that elsewhere so we have room for a guy like Beal, all the better.
 

benhogan

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No, Boston’s ability to sign Beal in free agency is going to drive down the acquisition cost. If you’re Miami or Golden State do you bet the house on Beal knowing that he has an easy path to teaming up with his long time friend next summer? And Boston has just built up a bunch of medium sized contracts to use in trade for him.
Yeah, you're bluffing to lower the price in that scenario. If called by Wash, your fallback is Beal+Brown+Tatum+flotsam, which is still pretty workable.
I mean you can just watch the moves since Stevens's ascension and see the plan. He got input from Marcus & the Jay Crew about who they wanted in the head coaching slot, aggressively pursued/signed their choice, and then set about freeing up max space next summer and accumulating the contracts necessary to make a deal this upcoming year. His three core guys are going to (presumably) like playing for their new coach, and every time JayTay and Beal talk it's all going to be about teaming up in Boston (rather than someplace else).

Every day that goes by without a trade just lowers Beal's value around the league. Sooner or later you're going to see Boston make one of those all-in pick offers to pry Beal out of DC and the Zardoz are going to take the offer.
Cross-posting from another thread. Here is PBS's Beal plan.
1. Build up CAP flexibility for the Summer of '22.
2. Send smoke signals out that they know something that others don't (Tatum/Beal arrangement).
3. That gives the rest of the league pause on making a 3-pick offer for Beal, which depresses his trade value.
4. Trade for Beal during the season, when Wash'd finally goes into a full tank. OR
5. Have the CAP flexibility to sign Beal at the season's end.

Let's speculate that the Zards capitulate in January, they go into full tank.
The rest of the league figures Beal's set on playing w/JT. They can't make a 3-pick offer knowing it's a rental.

Celtics offer 3 firsts + swaps + JRich + Smart + basket of 2-3 youngs (Nesmith, Langford, PP, Grant, Moses, Fernando). I'm assuming JRich's contract can be combinable to use for matching by Jan'22

Or is Beal's trade value even more depressed?

The one guy I want them to keep/sign (now that EF is flying the coop) is TL. We've seen glimmers of his ceiling, ++defensive erasure at the rim + PnR/passing threat on offense. His injury history will depress his ask price & multiple years should be attractive to him/his agent. If they could sign TL for less than his cap hold ($11MM), say 3yrs @ $25MM, does that help for '22 summer CAP purposes?
 
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JM3

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TL would have to suffer a catastrophic injury for his value to be that low, but yeah, if someone signs for less than the hold, the new salary is the new #.