Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

JM3

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He didn't jump off the page at anyone. He went 30.

This "we blew our opportunity to get Desmond Bane" narrative is worn out.
I guess it depends on whether it's 1st guessing or 2nd guessing. If people were upset at the time, he didn't do anything to prove them wrong.

He's kind of an is what he is guy. Old t-rex who is a good shooter with decent secondary skills.

& a cool last name to say.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Trading Jaylen Brown for 1 year of Beal = bad. If there is a way to get Beal that doesn't ship out Brown, that is a whole different situation.
 

RorschachsMask

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Trading Jaylen Brown for 1 year of Beal = bad. If there is a way to get Beal that doesn't ship out Brown, that is a whole different situation.
It wouldn’t be one year of Beal, he would sign an extension if that deal were to happen.

A reporter who is really close to Beal said the report about him considering asking out before the draft is false. Which is good for us, we don’t want Beal to ask out at all. Just play out his contract, then we can get him next summer, without giving up JB.

If he does ask out now, it puts the Celtics in a tough position, as everyone knows Tatum and Beal want to play together. The Warriors/Sixers would offer a ton, and easily beat any Celtics offer without Jaylen.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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Not really. People were complaining about the depth and roster construction all season. Plus acting like Bane was a sure thing and not in the same group as Carsen/Semi/Jevonte to start last season is rich. He worked out, but the C's may also not have drafted him anyway.
Yes really—-go back and read there were people arguing roster was set and there was no room for Bane or a vet FA off-season and early in the year. It’s dishonest or ignorant to suggest otherwise.

Several of us argued Bane was an upgrade at the time. You not being one of them doesn’t change that it happened. He’s not a game-changer but he would have helped.
 

Cellar-Door

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It wouldn’t be one year of Beal, he would sign an extension if that deal were to happen.

A reporter who is really close to Beal said the report about him considering asking out before the draft is false. Which is good for us, we don’t want Beal to ask out at all. Just play out his contract, then we can get him next summer, to add to Tatum and then Jaylen.

If he does ask out now, it puts the Celtics in a tough position, as everyone knows Tatum and Beal want to play together. The Warriors/Sixers would offer a ton, and easily beat any Celtics offer without Jaylen.
I think there is little chance this team has cap space next summer. All indications have been that they want to re-sign Fournier.
 

RorschachsMask

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I think there is little chance this team has cap space next summer. All indications have been that they want to re-sign Fournier.
I don’t think signing him outright with cap space is too likely. I think it would more likely be an opt in and trade, or a s&t (which would be pretty difficult, but that’s what Zarren is brilliant with).
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yes really—-go back and read there were people arguing roster was set and there was no room for Bane or a vet FA off-season and early in the year. It’s dishonest or ignorant to suggest otherwise.

Several of us argued Bane was an upgrade at the time. You not being one of them doesn’t change that it happened. He’s not a game-changer but he would have helped.
Just because you and others liked Bane doesn't mean the Celtics were going to draft him. It's not hard to follow along. Keep beating your agenda though. You are wrong. The fact you said many posters liked Bane goes against your very theory. You can't have it both ways.

Also, drop the schtick. You aren't some superior poster who is always right.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just because you and others liked Bane doesn't mean the Celtics were going to draft him. It's not hard to follow along. Keep beating your agenda though. You are wrong. The fact you said many posters liked Bane goes against your very theory. You can't have it both ways.

Also, drop the schtick. You aren't some superior poster who is always right.
I’m far from always right and certainly never claimed otherwise.

My point, which you have missed, is that recognizing there’s roles and differences between useful depth and garbage end of bench is something not everyone gets. HRB noted the same and I hope (and expect) Stevens will operate differently this off-season because he recognizes you need the depth.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I’m far from always right and certainly never claimed otherwise.

My point, which you have missed, is that recognizing there’s roles and differences between useful depth and garbage end of bench is something not everyone gets. HRB noted the same and I hope (and expect) Stevens will operate differently this off-season because he recognizes you need the depth.
No, you missed the point and continue to. Banes would have been 13th to 15th on the roster. If they went into the year with Banes as their 9th or 10th guy, that is a recipe for disaster even if it happened to work out. It's like going into the season expecting production from Aaron Nesmith. PP wasn't high on the depth chart but quickly climbed his way up the ladder.

You don't go into an NBA season expecting anything from the 30th pick in the NBA draft. Also "garbage end of bench" are usually rookies with potential who aren't all that useful. You need some developmental spots. The C's just had far too many.
 

PedroKsBambino

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No, you missed the point and continue to. Banes would have been 13th to 15th on the roster. If they went into the year with Banes as their 9th or 10th guy, that is a recipe for disaster even if it happened to work out. It's like going into the season expecting production from Aaron Nesmith. PP wasn't high on the depth chart but quickly climbed his way up the ladder.

You don't go into an NBA season expecting anything from the 30th pick in the NBA draft. Also "garbage end of bench" are usually rookies with potential who aren't all that useful. You need some developmental spots. The C's just had far too many.
You don’t even know the guys actual name.

Your conclusion is the one I’ve been stating since last summer and made above, so it’s really bizarre to say I’m missing the point. Regardless, good luck.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You don’t even know the guys actual name.

Your conclusion is the one I’ve been stating since last summer and made above, so it’s really bizarre to say I’m missing the point. Regardless, good luck.
I said it right the first few times. My point is Bane should have been looked at as a developmental guy and the C's already had too many. The fact he ended up being more than that doesn't change anything. They didn't need more rookies. They need vets. Moving the pick was the right move. They just ended up signing a guy no one liked.

It's like wanting the C's to pick at 16 this year. They don't need unproven youth. They need proven vets. Trade the picks. Are they trying to win a title or not? You don't win titles drafting projects at 30 on a title contending team when you already have AN and RL.
 

Auger34

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Semi and Jabari are both competent end of the rotation guys. You all have way too high of expectations of the 8th or 9th or 10th guy on the roster. MIL and PHO just played in the finals with Jeff Teague and Frank Kaminsky as their 8th guy off the bench.

The problem with this team wasn't the 8th or 9th guy or 10th guy, it was that Tristan Thompson and Payton Pritchard were the first guys off the bench. Improve those spots and Jabari and/or Semi look absolutely great in their spots
They’re both problems and your comparison to MIL and PHO lacks some very important context . Plus both Jabari and Semi don’t look “absolutely great” as anything other than 12th men aka don’t look absolutely great unless in warm-ups on the bench.

MIL traded away a chunk of their depth for Jrue Holiday and DiVicenzo got hurt so the comparison really doesn’t match up.
PHO had Saric get hurt and completely whiffed on Jalen Smith with the 10th pick.

The end of the bench was a real problem that numerous posters pointed out during the off-season. The 8th guy was a real problem as well that was talked about a bunch as well.

And your next post pointing out that Semi was a 10th guy getting less minutes than Javonte Green and Jeff Teague….that just further solidifies that the entire bench was the problem not just 6 and 7
 

JM3

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Bane was more of a finished product than a developmental guy. Rexy shooter with an NBA body who played 4 years at TCU & was in the top 10 in the Big 12 in scoring, rebounds & assists his senior year.

He dropped to 30 because his upside is very limited, not because he couldn't step in & be a 10th guy right away.

He actually had a remarkably similar rookie season to Pritchard statistically.

The fact is, they wanted to get out of the tax this year, though, & using another 1st & not being able to move off Kanter probably blocks them from being able to acquire Fournier, so it makes sense.

Sure, Bane would have helped some this year, but they weren't going anywhere this year anyway, & Bane is never going to be a core difference maker between us being a championship team or not, so it's kind of whatever.

The real question is, does Nesmith just suck at basketball & should they have done something like move 14 & Kanter for a future 1st or something, but it's all speculative (trading up for Haliburton would also have been pretty awesome).
 

Cesar Crespo

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They’re both problems and your comparison to MIL and PHO lacks some very important context . Plus both Jabari and Semi don’t look “absolutely great” as anything other than 12th men aka don’t look absolutely great unless in warm-ups on the bench.

MIL traded away a chunk of their depth for Jrue Holiday and DiVicenzo got hurt so the comparison really doesn’t match up.
PHO had Saric get hurt and completely whiffed on Jalen Smith with the 10th pick.

The end of the bench was a real problem that numerous posters pointed out during the off-season. The 8th guy was a real problem as well that was talked about a bunch as well.

And your next post pointing out that Semi was a 10th guy getting less minutes than Javonte Green and Jeff Teague….that just further solidifies that the entire bench was the problem not just 6 and 7
There's also a difference between playoff basketball and the regular season. If your top 6-7 guys are healthy in the playoffs, you can get by. The C's weren't build to survive the regular season intact and they didn't.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Bane was more of a finished product than a developmental guy. Rexy shooter with an NBA body who played 4 years at TCU & was in the top 10 in the Big 12 in scoring, rebounds & assists his senior year.


The real question is, does Nesmith just suck at basketball & should they have done something like move 14 & Kanter for a future 1st or something, but it's all speculative (trading up for Haliburton would also have been pretty awesome).
Sure, if they drafted Bane. Chances are they would have ended up with someone else who is more of a developmental guy.

Nesmith looked ok at the end of the year and his shot is pretty sweet looking. I think he'll be a lot better this coming season. Haliburton would have been nice but I doubt it was a possibility. Haliburton would be perfect, really.
 

BigMike

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It wouldn’t be one year of Beal, he would sign an extension if that deal were to happen.

A reporter who is really close to Beal said the report about him considering asking out before the draft is false. Which is good for us, we don’t want Beal to ask out at all. Just play out his contract, then we can get him next summer, without giving up JB.

If he does ask out now, it puts the Celtics in a tough position, as everyone knows Tatum and Beal want to play together. The Warriors/Sixers would offer a ton, and easily beat any Celtics offer without Jaylen.
On one hand I know it is hard to look at your best player and say, there is no chance he is staying this year, but it sure seems like Washington would be insane to not shop him this week whether he asks for a trade or not.
 

JM3

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Sure, if they drafted Bane. Chances are they would have ended up with someone else who is more of a developmental guy.

Nesmith looked ok at the end of the year and his shot is pretty sweet looking. I think he'll be a lot better this coming season. Haliburton would have been nice but I doubt it was a possibility. Haliburton would be perfect, really.
Well, they drafted Nesmith & PP to try to fit immediate needs, so they would probably have done the same if they moved off the Nesmith pick.

I feel like the Haliburton spot would be to get to 10 from the Suns because their crappy C should still have been there at 14, but who knows?

Not much point in getting bogged down with the minutiae & the what ifs. I think this whole conversation started because I said if Nigel Hayes is an upgrade over Semi/Jabari, which he certainly could be, that would be a great get for the minimum.

Building out cheap depth is a good way to maximize EV & make sure you aren't running out disastrous lineups in non-garbage time.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Well, they drafted Nesmith & PP to try to fit immediate needs, so they would probably have done the same if they moved off the Nesmith pick.

I feel like the Haliburton spot would be to get to 10 from the Suns because their crappy C should still have been there at 14, but who knows?

Not much point in getting bogged down with the minutiae & the what ifs. I think this whole conversation started because I said if Nigel Hayes is an upgrade over Semi/Jabari, which he certainly could be, that would be a great get for the minimum.

Building out cheap depth is a good way to maximize EV & make sure you aren't running out disastrous lineups in non-garbage time.
He could be and that's someone Ainge would totally sign. I'm not sure about Stevens. The C's have had some decent luck with signing international players on the cheap the last few years. Seems like a good way to get decent middle bench depth on the cheap and sometimes you'll luck into a Theis. It looks like Nigel Hayes could possibly be something more than just a Wanamaker or Shane Larkin. He has some crazy shooting numbers.
 

benhogan

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They actually signed two guys who no one liked but one of them won a ring. Technically speaking.
Danny had a rough couple of years which was all set in motion by Kyrie's false promise. 'Hob aptly labelled it the Ky-HEX

That in turn set off a chain of unfortunate events that Danny tried to correct on the fly last year and Brad is trying to correct now.
 

the moops

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Do 27 year old bordeline all stars ever force their way to play with their friends? Isn't it mostly, if not always either best to chance to win or best chance to play in a city like LA
 

Cesar Crespo

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Do 27 year old bordeline all stars ever force their way to play with their friends? Isn't it mostly, if not always either best to chance to win or best chance to play in a city like LA
Borderline all star? Man, people have a really weird take with an all star is if Bradley Beal is now also a borderline all star next to Chris Bosh.

Plus, forcing his way to play with his all star best friend is one of his best chances to win, assuming Jaylen stays.
 

the moops

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Borderline all star? Man, people have a really weird take with an all star is if Bradley Beal is now also a borderline all star next to Chris Bosh.

Plus, forcing his way to play with his all star best friend is one of his best chances to win, assuming Jaylen stays.
Wasn't meant as a disparaging remark. He has been an all-star 3 of the past 4 years. I thought it was only 2, but it was more a non-superstar was the needed wordage.

There are at least a couple other places that would give him a better chance to win the title though. GSW, MIA, PHI I would say
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wasn't meant as a disparaging remark. He has been an all-star 3 of the past 4 years. I thought it was only 2, but it was more a non-superstar was the needed wordage.

There are at least a couple other places that would give him a better chance to win the title though. GSW, MIA, PHI I would say
Those 3 teams have some question marks too, though. One/some/all of those teams may be more interested in Dame. With Dame possibly on the market as well... it'll be fun reading the rumor mills.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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FWIW - and SRN can confirm or deny - the chatter around the Warriors for Beal seems more than cursory for obvious reasons. They fit as a destination, can offer a pretty attractive package of some combination of picks+Wiseman+salary matching and should be considered the favorites to land him...unless Beal wants Boston.
 

Rustjive

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Wasn't meant as a disparaging remark. He has been an all-star 3 of the past 4 years. I thought it was only 2, but it was more a non-superstar was the needed wordage.
He should have been 4 out of 4 on the all-star front on merit, and was one of the biggest snubs in 2020. His all-NBA selection this year was well-deserved, he probably could've been 3rd team last year as well but for the heavy team-based factor attached to that voting.

The perception of Beal is honestly really strange - people think of him as a ball hog, undersized, the worst defensive player in the league, an empty stats guy part of some perennial loser team, etc. when none of those things are true. When he played with Wall he was one of the best off-ball players in the league, he's not a giant by any means at a real 6'3" but he's not Kemba in size, his defense before his team became non-competitive after Wall went down was average to good, and he's been in the playoffs more seasons than he hasn't. My go-to comparison for him is that he's currently a better Donovan Mitchell, but instead of Quin Snyder he had Scott Brooks as coach and Ernie Grunfeld in the FO.
 

PedroKsBambino

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FWIW - and SRN can confirm or deny - the chatter around the Warriors for Beal seems more than cursory for obvious reasons. They fit as a destination, can offer a pretty attractive package of some combination of picks+Wiseman+salary matching and should be considered the favorites to land him...unless Beal wants Boston.
It just makes a ton of sense—-Warriors have the young players/picks to make it interesting for Wiz, Beal gets to a better situation, and the Warriors get a legit shot next year. There’s reasons GS might gamble on an on-the-fly rebuild, but that would look a lot more appealing with Ball than it does with Wiseman. I agree with others—unless Beal pulls an AD and makes clear he wants to be in Boston/with Tatum I don’t think Celtics can get there without Jaylen. And I’m not sure that’s a deal they make.
 

mikeot

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The idea of any deal, for Beal or whomever, that involves trading Jaylen fills me with dread .. just sayin'.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I know that John Karalis thinks that Juancho Hernangomez is a decent target for the Celtics for Thompson. The T’Wolves just pulled him from the Spanish team and refused to let him go to the Olympics and apparently Juancho is really upset. Thoughts?

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/07/24/timberwolves-block-juancho-hernangomez-from-olympics/
Fits the team better than his brother anyway. I don't know, there isn't much upside left with Hernangomez. He can shoot the 3 a little but I don't see much else there.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The idea of any deal, for Beal or whomever, that involves trading Jaylen fills me with dread .. just sayin'.
I would not make that trade but I understand how others might. Beal is very good however the difference between him and Brown isn't enough to justify the all in cost - and Brown is likely to keep improving. Finally, a Beal/Brown trade simply reshuffles the deck for the Celtics. They still need more talent so its also unclear how much, if any, improvement they would receive from this sort of transaction.
 

RorschachsMask

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From Shams. May be time to consider the possibility that Jaylen could be dealt this week.

Beal has been seriously mulling his future in recent weeks, and at times has been very much on the fence about whether or not he wants to remain with the Wizards, sources tell The Athletic. The All-NBA guard is expected to use the weekend to continue giving his career some thought and could arrive at a decision during the upcoming week. For all teams, planning and preparation entering draft week is important. It heightens the need to allow the Wizards and teams across the league to prepare should Beal have a change of heart on his future. For Beal, this process of mulling his future has taken place over each of the past few summers.
View: https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1419346382910017536?s=20
 

Auger34

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It just makes a ton of sense—-Warriors have the young players/picks to make it interesting for Wiz, Beal gets to a better situation, and the Warriors get a legit shot next year. There’s reasons GS might gamble on an on-the-fly rebuild, but that would look a lot more appealing with Ball than it does with Wiseman. I agree with others—unless Beal pulls an AD and makes clear he wants to be in Boston/with Tatum I don’t think Celtics can get there without Jaylen. And I’m not sure that’s a deal they make.
GSW wouldn’t be able to sign him to an extension though right?
I guess they could but their luxury tax bill would be fucking mammoth for the duration of the contract
 

Jed Zeppelin

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If you move Jaylen for Beal it’s because you are already targeting a 3rd star who you know would rather play with Tatum/Beal than Tatum/Brown. I absolutely love Jaylen as much as anyone but he doesn’t have the same cachet around the league.

Strictly in terms of on court value I need another shoe to drop if that is the move. Of course would prefer adding Beal to the Jays and going from there.

If Jaylen’s exponential offensive growth had been matched on the defensive side, this isn’t even really a discussion for me at all.
 

RorschachsMask

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I have no idea what any of this means. Apparently I’m not fluent in social media
Was an IG post about Beal possibly asking out, and Tatum commented the Celtics logo lol.

Woj said they likely wouldn’t give up Jaylen though, so I’m really curious what type of package it would take without Jaylen. Would have to be an ungodly picks package.
 

128

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It wasn’t. And as Zach Lowe said, there’s a strong chance it won’t.
Why would they offer Jaylen for Beal? Doesn’t make any sense
Among other things, a Boston team that already lacks height would be trading one of its taller, longer players for a 6-foot-3 guard. No disrespect to Beal, who's a fantastic player, but unless the C's could then add a third star with some size, the move wouldn't do much for me.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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Was an IG post about Beal possibly asking out, and Tatum commented the Celtics logo lol.

Woj said they likely wouldn’t give up Jaylen though, so I’m really curious what type of package it would take without Jaylen. Would have to be an ungodly picks package.
Yeah probably an AD/Lakers-esque pick pupu platter