Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

JCizzle

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Seems it, but has any team said "nah, we aren't trading you?" NO did for a brief minute.
I tend to agree with you, but at the same time I'd be totally OK with the Celtics being one of the first teams to say "fuck it" and not agree to such a demand. Let his ass sit for four years. Requesting a trade the first year of a supermax extension is insanity to me.

With that said, there's zero indication we're even close to this scenario and it's probably a waste of time even discussing it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Would be curious to trade out of the first round just to move up in the 1st round lol.

I'm sure a deal could be had where Smart ends up in NO but it's not for Eric Bledsoe. Probably not the 10th pick either, unless the C's really like someone they think will be available.
 

TripleOT

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Isn’t it a question of how much Beal wants to play with Tatum? Beal may not be able to force the Wiz to take a Boston deal sans Jaylen, but he certainly can chill the market for him by saying he’s going to Boston as a FA after this season.

Washington has done a lousy job building around Beal. Being an all time franchise guy, like Dirk, has been important to Beal, but it seems like he’s lost confidence that Wiz brass can put pieces around him to contend. Meanwhile, his (almost) little brother has played big roles in multiple ECFs. Maybe it’s good that Beal didn’t make the trip to Tokyo, to be recruited by Draymond Green. He can work out with Tatum for the rest of the off season once the Olympics end, like he does every year, and maybe steel his resolve to make the move he wants.
 

the moops

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At first glance, I don't hate that, but I have always been higher on Bledsoe and lower on Smart than most people. Does seem like an odd move though, unless BOS moves #10 and Bledsoe somewhere else?
 

Euclis20

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Seems it, but has any team said "nah, we aren't trading you?" NO did for a brief minute.
I'm sure that some players/agents have made this request in private, and were turned down by the team. For better or worse, Tatum seems to keep his cards pretty close to the vest and doesn't seem to like the type to make any public demands, at least not this many years before his contract is up.
 

nighthob

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At first glance, I don't hate that, but I have always been higher on Bledsoe and lower on Smart than most people. Does seem like an odd move though, unless BOS moves #10 and Bledsoe somewhere else?
There'd definitely need to be more as Bledsoe is bone on bone in both knees, no longer all that quick, and trending badly on both sides of the ball. While 2021 is a great draft to be selecting in the top 6, after that things get dicey. I suppose that Jalen Johnson might still be there as a homerun swing. But I'm not sure that the vet infrastructure in Boston is strong enough anymore to develop him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Would be curious to trade out of the first round just to move up in the 1st round lol.

I'm sure a deal could be had where Smart ends up in NO but it's not for Eric Bledsoe. Probably not the 10th pick either, unless the C's really like someone they think will be available.
The Pelicans priority is to move Bledsoe’s remaining 2/$37m though so any deal of significance is going to include him. The other offer that’s been out there was NO swapping pick 10 for the Grizz 17th for absorbing Bledsoe into their cap space. He’s all but finished being a productive player with his knees.
 

TripleOT

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cheech13

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The Bledsoe portion is mostly irrelevant as he’s just salary filler. It’s basically Smart for #10, which is somewhat reasonable on the surface. It’s definitely a more attractive asset to put in a Beal trade offer.
 

nighthob

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Unfortunately you're stuck trying to convince the 'Zardoz that they're better off with a negative asset than a positive one.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Bledsoe portion is mostly irrelevant as he’s just salary filler. It’s basically Smart for #10, which is somewhat reasonable on the surface. It’s definitely a more attractive asset to put in a Beal trade offer.
Yes it makes more sense once you remove the Smart for Bledsoe names......the purpose would be to move Smart prior to having to pay him a lot of money for 4 more years or lose him for nothing while getting a lottery pick in return. The price is Bledsoe’s contract this year before he’s an expiring but he can at least give you some PG minutes albeit not very good ones.
 

PedroKsBambino

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There'd definitely need to be more as Bledsoe is bone on bone in both knees, no longer all that quick, and trending badly on both sides of the ball. While 2021 is a great draft to be selecting in the top 6, after that things get dicey. I suppose that Jalen Johnson might still be there as a homerun swing. But I'm not sure that the vet infrastructure in Boston is strong enough anymore to develop him.
Yeah, I think that deal would say some combination of three things:

1. All-defense Smart isn't coming back
2. Smart's contract demands are totally unreasonable and they don't think he'll budge
3. There's an asset play for the 10th pick for someone else they think is viable

Without knowing details of any of those three I tend to think I'd rather keep Smart absent a known "other" deal you could execute immediately with 10
 

Spelunker

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Leaving aside for a moment whether Fournier would want to play there, could he be involved in a S&T for Beal?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Leaving aside for a moment whether Fournier would want to play there, could he be involved in a S&T for Beal?
Fournier would seem to fit the Leonsis veteran type who keeps them competitive. They’d have to be the top bidder though which wouldn’t happen until after the draft though. The most likely trade of Beal would occur on draft night if I had to guess.
 

JakeRae

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Fournier would seem to fit the Leonsis veteran type who keeps them competitive. They’d have to be the top bidder though which wouldn’t happen until after the draft though. The most likely trade of Beal would occur on draft night if I had to guess.
They wouldn’t have to be as he could be a part of a 3 team where he is being signed and traded, which would create outgoing salary to match.

If Beal is being traded to the Warriors it will happen on draft night. But if the Celtics are doing a deal based primarily on future firsts, the teams could agree to a framework or contingencies that address the salary match while deferring finalizing the trade until, for example, they know if they can use Fournier instead of Smart to match. That sort of contingency based trade isn’t impossible.
 

Cellar-Door

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I was messing around with the roster manager over at Spotrac to try a reasonable offseason:
(No Beal trade, I decided it wasn't likely without Brown and I think that's a bad trade)
I took into account the rumor that the owners don't want to go much past $15M in tax.

Move 1:
Trade 45 and a future 2nd for Jarrett Culver

Move 2:
Re-sign Fournier starting at $16M (3 years around 51M)

Move 3:
TT, Carsen, future 2nd for Delon Wright

Move 4:
Sign Nigel Hayes

Move 5:
Release Parker (non-guaranteed, so saves us on the tax, replaced by Hayes, also leaves open a spot for buyouts).

Leaves them with this:

PGs: Smart, Wright, PP
WIngs: Tatum,Brown, Fournier, Culver, Romeo, Nesmith
Bigs: Horford, TL, Grant, Hayes, Brown

I'm tempted to just ditch Jabari and keep the roster spot open to save the
 

benhogan

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I was messing around with the roster manager over at Spotrac to try a reasonable offseason:
(No Beal trade, I decided it wasn't likely without Brown and I think that's a bad trade)
I took into account the rumor that the owners don't want to go much past $15M in tax.

Move 1:
Trade 45 and a future 2nd for Jarrett Culver

Move 2:
Re-sign Fournier starting at $16M (3 years around 51M)

Move 3:
TT, Carsen, future 2nd for Delon Wright

Move 4:
Sign Nigel Hayes

Move 5:
Release Parker (non-guaranteed, so saves us on the tax, replaced by Hayes, also leaves open a spot for buyouts).

Leaves them with this:

PGs: Smart, Wright, PP
WIngs: Tatum,Brown, Fournier, Culver, Romeo, Nesmith
Bigs: Horford, TL, Grant, Hayes, Brown

I'm tempted to just ditch Jabari and keep the roster spot open to save the
love all of it

would like Delon but I suspect Sacramento is dealing Hield and rotating Wright with Fox/Halliburton in the backcourt.

maybe also add:
sign an undrafted rookie BIG and put him on a 2-way. or
sign Kornet to a vet min over Parker, still concerned about BIGs health
 

the moops

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I am fine with them throwing a vet minimum at Nigel Hayes, but I hope they have solid plans to use the full tax payer MLE on someone. Justise Winslow? Satoransky if he gets released? Bjelica?
 

Eddie Jurak

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Karalis: No, the Celtics should not trade Jaylen Brown for Bradley Beal

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/07/27/no-celtics-should-not-trade-brown-for-beal

I want to say this as clearly as I possibly can.
The Boston Celtics should not, for any reason, trade Jaylen Brown for Bradley Beal. Not to appease Jayson Tatum. Not to make a splashy move. Not for any reason short of Brown himself saying he wants out of town, and even then I’d still say Boston should try to make it work.

It’s not that I don’t want Beal. I’ve been talking about how a Beal/Tatum/Brown trio could be the antidote to Brooklyn Nets fever. I think finding a way, however improbable, to get Beal onto Boston to form this generation’s Big 3 would be the launching pad to championship contender.

But it’s not going to happen without Brown.
Is [Beal] so much better than Brown that adding him and removing Brown suddenly has Kevin Durant, James Harden, and Kyrie Irving quaking in their boots? Are the defending champions really worried that Jayson Tatum and Bradley Beal are going to outdo Giannis Antetokounmpo and Khris Middleton when one of those guys will have to deal with Jrue Holiday living in his shorts for a whole series?

No. It won’t.

Boston has its two stars right now, and should be either angling for a third, or to find the Holiday of their own to add a level of depth that will be hard for top-heavy trios to deal with. They absolutely should not be switching one star out for another one who is better right now, but who might not be for much longer.
I wholeheartedly agree.
 

NomarsFool

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IF Beal really wants to be with Tatum, he CAN say that he doesn't see a future in Washington, that he has no plans to resign there, and if they don't want to lose him for nothing, they should trade him, and that to any team that trades for him, he will go to free agency UNLESS it's the Boston Celtics.

On the other hand, he may not care all that much whether he plays with Tatum.

But, if he made that first set of statements, WAS probably would have to trade him for what BOS was willing to offer; in other words, a reasonable package that did not include Brown.
 

Cesar Crespo

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IF Beal really wants to be with Tatum, he CAN say that he doesn't see a future in Washington, that he has no plans to resign there, and if they don't want to lose him for nothing, they should trade him, and that to any team that trades for him, he will go to free agency UNLESS it's the Boston Celtics.

On the other hand, he may not care all that much whether he plays with Tatum.

But, if he made that first set of statements, WAS probably would have to trade him for what BOS was willing to offer; in other words, a reasonable package that did not include Brown.
"reasonable." Once he demands a trade to Boston, any reasonable offer goes out the window. There is no reasonable offer the C's can make without Brown.

This is why we are all hoping Beal basically demands Boston.

edit: Just to be clear, they will have to accept whatever Boston is offering, but it won't be reasonable.
 

the moops

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"reasonable." Once he demands a trade to Boston, any reasonable offer goes out the window. There is no reasonable offer the C's can make without Brown.

This is why we are all hoping Beal basically demands Boston.

edit: Just to be clear, they will have to accept whatever Boston is offering, but it won't be reasonable.
Isn't this the same thing as AD and the Lakers. It was made clear that he only wanted to go to LA and they got a very reasonable return
 

Cellar-Door

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I am fine with them throwing a vet minimum at Nigel Hayes, but I hope they have solid plans to use the full tax payer MLE on someone. Justise Winslow? Satoransky if he gets released? Bjelica?
If you want Sato it's probably a trade into the TPE.
The Celtics aren't using the full MLE, and honestly I think they're better off with trades into the two TPEs than any FA signing into the exception, everyone decent is getting more than they can offer.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, and what are the Celtics equivalent to Ingram, Ball and the 4th overall pick?
Beal ain't AD, he's not even Harden (the better comp for a guy forcing out). If Beal demands a trade and gives a shitty list of teams he'll re-sign for then the answer is Smart, three 1sts a couple swaps and salary fill.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Beal ain't AD, he's not even Harden (the better comp for a guy forcing out). If Beal demands a trade and gives a shitty list of teams he'll re-sign for then the answer is Smart, three 1sts a couple swaps and salary fill.
They would accept that trade but I wouldn't call it reasonable by any stretch. The only reason they would accept it is because Beal bend them over.

If Beal doesn't force his way to Boston and Brown isn't in a Beal trade, Beal is not coming to Boston.
 

the moops

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They would accept that trade but I wouldn't call it reasonable by any stretch. The only reason they would accept it is because Beal bend them over.

If Beal doesn't force his way to Boston and Brown isn't in a Beal trade, Beal is not coming to Boston.
Beal can be a free agent next year and sign here. He doesn't need to be traded to be a Celtic
 

Cellar-Door

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They would accept that trade but I wouldn't call it reasonable by any stretch. The only reason they would accept it is because Beal bend them over.

If Beal doesn't force his way to Boston and Brown isn't in a Beal trade, Beal is not coming to Boston.
Oh I agree. If Beal doesn't demand a trade and give a shortlist that is basically Boston and teams who already traded their picks he's not gonna be here. I expect that to be the case and the Celtics to re-sign Fournier and extend Smart.
Just pointing out that there have been recent situations like Harden that have made it clear if a guy wants out and is nearing contract end, he can end up going for picks and little else based on a list of places he'll re-sign.
 

cheech13

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Isn't this the same thing as AD and the Lakers. It was made clear that he only wanted to go to LA and they got a very reasonable return
Yes and Paul George attempted the same, but Indiana traded him to OKC anyways and he ended up saying there when he reached free agency. Players can dictate a lot in their trade demands but they can’t stop a team from trading them somewhere they don’t want to go if that’s the best offer.
 

lexrageorge

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Yes and Paul George attempted the same, but Indiana traded him to OKC anyways and he ended up saying there when he reached free agency. Players can dictate a lot in their trade demands but they can’t stop a team from trading them somewhere they don’t want to go if that’s the best offer.
OKC was able and willing to make a really good offer for Paul George, despite their not being on their preferred destination. PG is definitely a closer comp to Beal as opposed to Anthony Davis. If a team is able and willing to give up premium assets despite Beal's hypothetical demands to play in Boston, then Beal is getting traded to the other team.
 

JM3

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Harden contract had 2+1 left, Beal has 1+1, so Harden should have had less leverage than Beal & the offers for the extra year of control should be relatively higher.

But yeah, obviously other teams have more to offer if they're willing to offer it.
 

ColonelMustard

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Harden also decreased the perception of his value as well. The stories of showing up out of shape and then partying in Strip Clubs during Covid. Like bro...during covid?!
 

HomeRunBaker

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He can shoot, anyway. Last I knew, he couldn't guard a chair. A large part was effort but not all.
My recollection of Holman was that of a good energy guy, could protect the rim, knock down 3-point shooter.....but lacked any feel for the game to put it all together. Sometimes guys like this with the physicals have a light switch go off. I don’t expect much from him though.
 

JM3

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Going to like the 10th best league in the world & getting 16 minutes per game doesn't seem like a great harbinger for success...
 

Cesar Crespo

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My recollection of Holman was that of a good energy guy, could protect the rim, knock down 3-point shooter.....but lacked any feel for the game to put it all together. Sometimes guys like this with the physicals have a light switch go off. I don’t expect much from him though.
It could have been terrible IQ instead of effort. He was not very good on D despite being able to block some shots. No harm in bringing him in though. He has size and some skill.