I could see Stevens signing him to a two-year deal with a team option for a third year to maintain flexibility for the ‘23 offseason.
I was looking for a matching salary on the Lakers. Harrell?
Celtics Plan, Summer 2021
- Thread starter lovegtm
- Start date
Fournier is now the big domino in seeing what they are planning long term.
If they let him walk for nothing it makes it more likely they gut the team (Smart, no TL extension etc.)
If they sign him to a deal it means they don't plan to be under the cap for at least 3-4 years.
If they let him walk for nothing it makes it more likely they gut the team (Smart, no TL extension etc.)
If they sign him to a deal it means they don't plan to be under the cap for at least 3-4 years.
TT has to be traded, right? TL, Chaiman of the Boards and Average Al should have the big spot covered.
I'm not sure that he has to go. In the right deal, with someone useful coming back, absolutely. But he's a useful guy and helps with salary fit. Four real bigs on a 15man roster is not necessarily problematic, and do we need to make minutes for Moses? Let's see what other deals happen this offseason and then at the deadline. Won't be a surprise at all if TT is moved at any point, but I don't get why he has to go.
Mo' Brown was in the deal to make the salaries work. I don't think Boston really has plans for him. He'll be useful in a six fouls sort of way when Boston has to play teams with good centers. Also, TimeLord's about to enter the phase of his career where there's a non-zero chance that his salary outstrips his value. He might actually end up being part of the talent they send out in a deal for a star (and might have a lot more value to them that way than his next contract).
Yeah Brown might not make the team.
I think they would trade TT if they get something they want, not sure they would just dump him
I think they would trade TT if they get something they want, not sure they would just dump him
View: https://twitter.com/Murf56/status/1405985966020571139
Not surprising, word is they plan to try and re-sign NG and use the MLE
Not surprising, word is they plan to try and re-sign NG and use the MLE
I expect Brad to retool the entire roster sans The Jays so speculations based on our current roster isn’t going to do much. Hmmmm, a poll!!
As an MLE player, Thompson is not really a negative asset, and it would not cost the Celtics a pick to move him. He doesn't fit here, but there are plenty of places where he would be a fit, and there is a shit-ton of player movement yet to come this summer.
It’s a pretty ugly list.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
From that list, I could see Brad liking a sharp shooting wing like Reggie Bullock or Tony Snell. Not sure the MLE is enough to get them but they would seem to be the best fit. The list of point guards that might accept the MLE is dreadful. Maybe Dragic? Although I think he likely gets more from Miami.
Agree, TT is fine at 1 year at the MLE, he's a solid pro and you don't have to give him 2 years so you stay flexible.
Tough to say since there are a decent number of teams with space, also some guys are RFA but also might take the MLE and not get matched but these guys should be floating around that area:
Danny Green
Josh Hart (RFA)
Nerlens Noel
Alex Caruso
Reggie Bullock
Derrick Rose
Patty Mills
Alec Burks
Malik Monk (RFA)
Bruce Brown (RFA)
Nic Batum
Olynyk
PJ Tucker
JaMychal Green
Blake Griffin
Its really not an inspiring list. Maybe Caruso is interesting? I can't tell if his defense is actually good or if hes getting graded on the curve for not looking like a professional athlete.
He’s definitely that good. It’s so rare to see such an elite athlete look like a relief pitcher.
at the moment Sacramento is a good spot for TT (Holmes/Whiteside contracts are up).
Now that Kemba is gone, this is Brad's summer to-do list
1. Hire new HC coach/assts
2. Hire/buyout Drew Hanlen/Pure Sweat - Celtics player development director
3. Move TT+ for Delon Wright (or rotational player)
4. Sign Fournier
5. Offer a $25-36MM/3yrs + 4th yr team option to TimeLord's agent or just go RFA
6. Call Wizards daily to check on Beal's status
7. Try to sign Marcus Smart (no idea on money or time) if fruitless, trade him. Contract year Marcus isn't appealing at all. Build a trade around Smart for Monte Morris or Kyle Anderson
8. Add 2 vet NBA players on minimum deals to the back of the roster (a youngish UFA + older vet)
9. sign Kornet to a min deal. Luke can learn from Horford's pick n pop school
Way too early roster projection:
1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. Horford
4. TL
5. Smart or other
6. Fournier
7. Delon Wright for TT salary slot
8. PP
9. Nesmith
10. Langford
11. Moses
12. Grant
13. Kornet
14. Vet min deal
15. Vet min deal
G league/two-way: 2nd round pick, Undrafted rookie FA
I wonder if these great skills trainers like Hanlen and Rob McClanaghan get offers from NBA teams, and if the money is good enough to have them give up their independent gig.
A few years ago, pretty much every player that Rob worked with was signing a max deal (Rose, Russ, Love, etc) and recently a handful of Hanlen clients have signed contracts totaling over $1 billion.
If Boston could bring Hanlen in, they would become a more welcome landing spot for some of the league’s best, with Beal the most obvious one. He’s great training wings, but even more impressive is his work with Embiid. Smart, TL, Romeo, and Nesmith would benefit tremendously.
Players seem to get better by putting in the work in the off season. Does the CBA preclude players from skills training full time with their team in the off aeason?
TT for Delon Wright is going to be a pet trade of mine. More than the roster crunch, I am starting to think that Thompson is someone that stokes division and is not someone you want around your young studs.
I'd imagine it would have to be voluntary. Many NBA players have guys from their childhood who try to milk the gravvy train by being their personal/offseason trainers (didn't Markelle Fultz have some hanger-on that messed with his shooting stroke before rookie year???).
Hanlen's on-court/video work seems top-notch for player development, it seems like a no-brainer to me for a team going through a coaching/regime change.
hop on board, there was some pushback on Delon being a journeyman/average player. He's not very sexy, but I see a really nice complimentary player to the Jays. Ball mover on offense that can hit the open 3, ++ on-ball defender that is switchable 1-4. This team will have really efficient offensive players in Tatum, Brown, Fournier, TL just surround them with some 3pt shooting, ball movers and ++ defenders.
Last edited:
The salary ballast is going to be Horford if Beal forces his way out next season.
how attractive is Horford's contract at the trade deadline as filler?
Could the Wizards benefit from the lower guaranteed dollars by stretching? or buying out? How could they most efficiently use Al's contract?
It's gold because at the trade deadline you're only spending ≈ $26.5 million on Horford. Stretch & release over the summer results in Horford being ≈ $4.8 on the cap for three years vs. ≈8.3 million for five on immediate release. From Boston's standpoint the contract is $41.5 million for one year of Al, which isn't terribly good. But it at least gets them off of Walker, whose knee has to be in ruinous shape given the deal (Boston paid a lot more to move off of $30 million of Kemba than Philly did moving off $69 million of Horford, and they got actual talent in the return, whereas Boston got nothing).
This is a bit of an overstatement. It’s less valuable than a true expiring, more valuable than a multi year deal, and a lot more valuable than taking a risk on a player with an option like Kemba. Horford also might be open to a buyout that sacrifices a big chunk of that year 4 guarantee for a chance to ring chase and probably sign an MLE deal the next year. That could enhance his trade value significantly by making him more like a true expiring.
With respect to this, some people might be interested that Carsen Edwards is putting in the work already.
Of course, most won't care. :0
View: https://twitter.com/EBTMiller/status/1406054286270861317
Yes, it’s slightly less valuable than an expiring, but as you note given his age he’s probably a lot more open to a buyout on favorable terms to ring chase.
I sort of forgot about him, for understandable reasons. I think there's a decent chance he's the only deep deep bench guy who gets brought back, just because of contract and he still has some small chance to be something.
I wonder if the Hawks will sniff around Beal this summer. No disrespect, but they can almost certainly offer a more attractive trade package than the Celtics can (assuming Jaylen is off the table), and he seems like a player who would very nicely complement Trae. The questions are 1) would Beal want to sign an extended deal in Atlanta, 2) will Travis Schlenk think that Beal is the sort of second star that would be worth the trade package that acquiring him would entail.
There are multiple teams that can offer better packages than Boston. Things only get interesting if Beal says that he wants to extend in Boston to play with Tatum.
It was interesting to me that Brad specifically mentioned that the Cs could play RL and Carsen together. I think he stays if only because he can shoot the ball.
It will be interesting to see whether Waters gets a roster spot as the only "pure" PG the Cs have right now. For a PG, however, he does take some rotten shots.
I don't see why they'd bring Waters back, now that he can't go on a 2-way. "Pure PG" is a pretty outdated concept and not a reason to keep a guy.
Here's the current roster, post Kemba trade (13 players and 2 open slots):
C: R.Williams, Horford, Thompson, M.Brown
PF: Tatum, G.Williams, Parker
SF: J.Brown, Nesmith
SG: Langford, Edwards
PG: Smart, Pritchard
Free agents: Fournier, Ojeleye, Kornet, Waters, Fall
2021 draft pick: their own second rounder.
Stashed player: Madar
1. Fournier would obviously slot in as the starting SG if he is re-signed, and this would be a good lineup.
2. A few guys are, shall we say, loosely attached to the roster: Parker, Edwards, maybe even M. Brown though I think Brown is the most likely of the four to be on the opening roster. Whether or not they return will have less to do with them and more to do with whatever other moves the Celtics make. The same could be said for free agents Kornet, Waters, and Fall, though I expect them to move on from Tacko.
3. The Celtics have a shaky logjam at center. Williams is obviously their best player but his health is a major question mark. Horford played well last year before OKC shut him down (and played Brown) because they wanted to lose. He's likely to be a good fit in a reduced minutes role, either starting or coming off the bench, but he is 35 so counting on him to be the guy we had a few years ago is not reasonable. Thompson is either a needed piece or a guy who will hate being the third string C, depending on the health of Williams and Horford. If all three are healthy, the Celtics will either be forced in a repeat of last year's double big fiasco or they will have to move one (most likely Thompson).
4. With no major moves, the Celtics season will turn on whether the young guys (Rob and Grant, Lanford and Nesmith) can step up. But there is still a chance that some additional big moves are going to happen.
C: R.Williams, Horford, Thompson, M.Brown
PF: Tatum, G.Williams, Parker
SF: J.Brown, Nesmith
SG: Langford, Edwards
PG: Smart, Pritchard
Free agents: Fournier, Ojeleye, Kornet, Waters, Fall
2021 draft pick: their own second rounder.
Stashed player: Madar
1. Fournier would obviously slot in as the starting SG if he is re-signed, and this would be a good lineup.
2. A few guys are, shall we say, loosely attached to the roster: Parker, Edwards, maybe even M. Brown though I think Brown is the most likely of the four to be on the opening roster. Whether or not they return will have less to do with them and more to do with whatever other moves the Celtics make. The same could be said for free agents Kornet, Waters, and Fall, though I expect them to move on from Tacko.
3. The Celtics have a shaky logjam at center. Williams is obviously their best player but his health is a major question mark. Horford played well last year before OKC shut him down (and played Brown) because they wanted to lose. He's likely to be a good fit in a reduced minutes role, either starting or coming off the bench, but he is 35 so counting on him to be the guy we had a few years ago is not reasonable. Thompson is either a needed piece or a guy who will hate being the third string C, depending on the health of Williams and Horford. If all three are healthy, the Celtics will either be forced in a repeat of last year's double big fiasco or they will have to move one (most likely Thompson).
4. With no major moves, the Celtics season will turn on whether the young guys (Rob and Grant, Lanford and Nesmith) can step up. But there is still a chance that some additional big moves are going to happen.
Last edited:
I said it in another thread, but I think we may see Yam Mader in Waters spot. If the C's use the 45th, heavy chance that player is also a 2 way deal.
I know Brown doesn't really replace Fall, but I'd much prefer Mader and Brown to Waters and Fall. After Waters rookie year and play in the G league, I thought there was a small chance he'd have a future in the NBA if he could hit the 3 consistently and cut down on the turnovers. The first isn't out of the question but he's always going to be TO prone. I never considered Fall to have a realistic chance at sticking in the NBA.
The minute I saw Carsen play in an actual (regular season) NBA game I thought he looked completely lost and out of place. That's when the rest of the board was loving him for his preseason performance. I figured he'd wash out of the league. Now I think he has a role in the NBA if put in the right situation. That was not with the Celtics in 20/21. With Kemba gone, it might be the Celtics in 21/22. For all of Edwards warts, he can create his own shot and can score. He offers something off the bench that Langford and PP can't. On the flip side, I'm not sure he can really play with Langford or PP. I don't think he'll ever be able to play with PP (size, defense) but if he or RL becomes acceptable running point, the 2 of them could play together. I think playing PP and RL together causes the same type of problems unless one of them improves in that (playmaking) area.
Ideally, it would be RL. My doubts aside, he has ideal size for a PG, plays defense, and can play alongside the lollipop guild rather than being part of the lollipop guild. Marcus Smart would allow this too but he can't play 48 minutes a game. I could see Marcus and Romeo closing out games together on defense but I think it could be an issue defensively. If Romeo is the back up PG playing 15-20 minutes a night, he's not going to get much overlap with Smart. I think that would be for the best, besides late game D.
Also re: TL, I'm fine with re-signing him if they can get him on a bargain deal due to health. Even then, if you have to plan around him missing 30 games, it makes things a bit more difficult. You need to carry a legit 3rd big. That would cause the team to use a 2 big lineup or to sit one of their bigs. No legit big is going to sign here to be a 3rd stringer who doesn't play. This is why I think Moses Brown has a lot of value with the C's. He may not be the greatest, but he's cheap, he can be stashed in Portland, and is around for 3 more years. In year 1 it may not pay dividends, but in years 2+3 I'd guess having a big who knows the system and has some experience with the players is a better option than having a bunch of 1 and dones, especially since the quality will be along the lines of Wagner and Kornet.. at least until buyout season. When buyout season happens and TL is injured or they just want a better 3rd option, Brown's contract isn't a hinderance either. Back to TL, if he does keep getting injured, eventually those injuries are going to affect his play when he's healthy. I worry about TL and diminished play due to injuries just as much as the actual injuries.
I'm also not sure what TL is actually worth in the modern NBA. Is a 4 year/50 mil deal really a discount for injury? If the C's sign Evan it won't really matter, but if they don't, locking up TL could also effect their ability to get a max guy after 21/22. I'd also wonder if there were better options in FA but that likely won't matter for the C's. I'm just at the point now where I think 95% of bigs aren't worth signing to deals longer than a year or two. Yeah, TL does fit in really well with the Jays but that doesn't mean other bigs won't fit in just as well. The only ones we have to compare him to are Theis, TT and Kanter, and they aren't similar to TL at all. Bring in another long, athletic pogo stick big and see how they fare.
Right now they are at 13 roster spots. Sign Evan, that's 14. Jabari and Brown not guaranteed. Leaves 1 roster spot open. Yam and 45 on 2 way deals. I'm sure more trades are coming though. I think one of TT, TL or even Al is gone before the season starts. I could also see any of AN, RL, GW, PP or Moses being traded away, either as pieces or as matching salary (probably not likely in the case of AN and RL). The more I think about Marcus Smart, the more I think he sticks around. The team needs another PG as is, so trading Smart makes little sense unless it brings back another PG.
definitely here in 21/22
Tatum, Jaylen, Evan, Marcus
Probably here in 21/22
TL, Horford
Here barring a huge trade for a 3rd banana
AN, RL (TL)
Wouldn't hesitate to trade away (doesn't mean they don't offer value) for better fits
TT, PP, Carsen, Grant, Moses, Jabari
I also wouldn't hesitate to trade Horford away, I'm just not sure it's in the cards. In the right deal, I'd move on from anyone besides Tatum. Jaylen would be very hard to pry away but the other guys I'd listen to most offers.
Anyway, long winded post. I think with Mader, Brown, and a free'd up Carsen, the deep end of the bench is already looking a lot better. They replaced 2 players with no real upside with 2 players that have potential. Semi will be gone too, which makes watching Grant less insufferable. Every team needs a Grant or Semi, no team needs both. If the object is to bring in some vets to fill out the bench, player movement is inevitable. Maybe TL graduated, but there's still GW, MB, PP, AN, RL, 45, CE. Way too much youth.
A long winded, but excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of your conclusions, except to add that Brad's decision-making on some of the "maybe" guys may end up surprising us. We don't know how much his opinions on guys differ from his predecessor. Kemba might not be the only shoe to fall.
Side note, I share your disappointment with Waters' development. He seemed like a classic backup PG with very good ball-handling and the potential to find guys and hit open shots. Two years of bad decisions and poor shooting later, I cannot wait to improve his and Tacko's 2-way spots (RIP Tacko experiment). Mader has potential at least.
Side note, I share your disappointment with Waters' development. He seemed like a classic backup PG with very good ball-handling and the potential to find guys and hit open shots. Two years of bad decisions and poor shooting later, I cannot wait to improve his and Tacko's 2-way spots (RIP Tacko experiment). Mader has potential at least.
I really like watching Yam play (and I'm definitely rooting for him bigtime), but I'm not sure if he'll ever translate physically. He's so frail looking, with narrow shoulders/frame that don't look like they'll support a ton of added weight or strength. Skill wise, and quickness - he's an NBA player. He's cleaned up his shot (it's still not a work of art, but much smoother than last year), he's extremely quick, instinctive, great court sense - there's a lot to like. But he'll get hunted on switches all day. I said this last year after the draft, but he looks like an underdeveloped high school sophomore out there. A year later, and that still holds true. I'm just not sure how much strength/bulk he'll ever be able to add with his frame.
That's a fair analysis but we are talking about a 2 way deal where he will spend most of his time in the G league. The G league has its flaws but those flaws favor Yam. (G League heavily favors guards) The competition in the G League is greater than where he is now and the players are bigger and stronger. I'm not sure if he works out in the NBA either, but he needs to play against tougher competition and the G league would benefit him. 2 way contracts and the G League were made with players like Yam in mind.
What do folks think about Killian Hayes? After winning the lottery he seems like an awkward fit for Detroit next to Cade. I can’t imagine they’d sell low on him a year after drafting him at #7, but perhaps they soured on Hayes after a shaky rookie year.
If he were basically free(ir Detroit would trade him straight up for #45) you'd have to take him, But I don't see why going after a young player who is probably 2-3 years away from helping out an NBA team in postseason. Would they even be willing to let him struggle through the growing pains while he learns how to be a pro? Basically I don't see him or someone of his type being a priority for them.
In terms of Detroit, I can't see any value at all in trading him. Sure maybe he and Cade will not be able to play well as a backcourt duo, but i don't think you know that yet. And I can't imagine them selling extremely low on Hayes.
Also, there are tons of examples of guys with that body type being able to stick in the league if the offensive parts of the game are there.
Is there a third star out there that is good enough for this team to put with the Jays that can be a championship competitor IF it takes renouncing pretty much everyone else to get there? I’m pretty much thinking the Lakers strategy when they paired Bron and AD
im not expecting this to happen, or it should, I’m just saying, theoretically, is there A single player that is attainable via an even remotely realistic trade or signing that with those two could compete for a title with a bunch of relatively low cost secondary guys?
Lillard? Beal? Westbrook? KAT? Simmons?
PS- I know Dame is unlikely to get moved I am just thinking out loud. I’m also not saying the Cs financial position is the same as the Lakers back then. I am just asking about who a possible third star could be IF that route could be taken
im not expecting this to happen, or it should, I’m just saying, theoretically, is there A single player that is attainable via an even remotely realistic trade or signing that with those two could compete for a title with a bunch of relatively low cost secondary guys?
Lillard? Beal? Westbrook? KAT? Simmons?
PS- I know Dame is unlikely to get moved I am just thinking out loud. I’m also not saying the Cs financial position is the same as the Lakers back then. I am just asking about who a possible third star could be IF that route could be taken
I mean Hayes has no value off the ball and taking the ball out of Cunningham’s hands to put it into Killer’s is a really bad idea. He wouldn’t be my choice as an undervalued target as he needs to spend a couple of years in the G-League working things out, but I doubt he pans out for several years, and likely not in Detroit.
Last edited:
I know it’s become something of a running joke on the Ringer but the fact that KOC thought Killian Hayes was the best player in last year’s draft is really bad when he’s their supposed draft analyst. He’s even doubling down now calling Cade a perfect complement to his game.
Beal is by far the most realistic. If he and Tatum actually do want to play together badly, they could make it happen (relatively) easily. It would just be a Beal trade request and his agent telling everyone he planned to sign in Boston if not traded there.
Lillard getting moved would require the Blazers to blow it up, which is unlikely.
Simmons may well be gettable with his lowered value+contract. I'd probably take the chance on him, but it's a big risk (when you factor in the assets you'd give up), and I'd have to think fairly hard.
After that, it gets hazy. There isn't really anyone who would force his way to Boston, and so you end up having a hard time having enough assets to give while still keeping Jaylen. Mayybeee Paul George if Kawhi leaves? Jokic in 2023? KAT demands a trade 1.5 years from now? It's all pretty unlikely/vague.
The guy to keep an eye on in 3 years imo is Donovan Mitchell, since he is buddies with Jaylen and they've been making googly eyes at each other for awhile. But 3 years may as well not exist in NBA terms, so it's not worth planning around.
Isn't Mitchell buddies with Tatum too?
I doubt people on this board would care for it much, but I think Tatum and Ingram have some serious bromance going on too.
I flagged Siakam as a guy Simmons might be dealt for and agree he's a dark horse to be moved---do you see a path to Celtics getting him?
Not easily, but Horford for salary plus a pile of enticements. Probably too many for the Celtics to risk, but worth investigating?
I guess Toronto is pretty hard to assess right now anyway--Masai's contract is up imminently right? So they need to figure out who is running the show, and then whether they are rebuilding or blowing it up as that impacts Siakam and any decision on Lowry.
If you play out a "let's blow it up and build around the 4th pick" path, I do think you'd want to trade Siakam. Can Celtics get there with some combo of Romeo, TL, Nesmith and picks? Not at all sure about that, but certainly can ask.
If you play out a "let's blow it up and build around the 4th pick" path, I do think you'd want to trade Siakam. Can Celtics get there with some combo of Romeo, TL, Nesmith and picks? Not at all sure about that, but certainly can ask.
Depends where his value is at--it definitely dipped some after he struggled as a lead scorer in the playoffs against Boston. Did it dip enough? Not sure, but I would consider doing a picks/prospects package for him if Toronto wants to go full rebuild (which they're well-positioned to do).
I like moving Smart+TT (with Smart going to a 3rd team) more than Horford, since you can probably shave off assets going out a bit that way, and since Horford would be a good fit with Siakam+Tatum+Brown.