Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

cheech13

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Houston most likely preferred the optionality with Oladipo. If he returned to his previous form they’d have an All-Star to build around or send out for more assets. If he was terrible they could let him walk and clear their cap of a huge salary. That risk/reward proposition was probably worth more than the near term value of Levert/Allen/Prince, even if the latter group was more valuable in an absolute sense.
 

nighthob

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Sure, he was an expiring deal which made him more attractive than LaVert given the injury history. Thank you for moving back to what I said in the first place, Houston preferred to have an expiring deal to clear payroll for their coming decade of irrelevance.

You couldn't build around Oladipo when he was young and healthy. So color me skeptical that Houston viewed him as someone to build around (especially given the poor fit with Wall). He was always a prayer that he played just well enough to pick up another couple of #1s as they continue to clear salary to start in on the Sean Marks rebuilding plan (keep throwing darts at the board while hoping to convince a couple of superstars to team up in your town).
 

Cellar-Door

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Sure, he was an expiring deal which made him more attractive than LaVert given the injury history. Thank you for moving back to what I said in the first place, Houston preferred to have an expiring deal to clear payroll for their coming decade of irrelevance.

You couldn't build around Oladipo when he was young and healthy. So color me skeptical that Houston viewed him as someone to build around (especially given the poor fit with Wall). He was always a prayer that he played just well enough to pick up another couple of #1s as they continue to clear salary to start in on the Sean Marks rebuilding plan (keep throwing darts at the board while hoping to convince a couple of superstars to team up in your town).
They did offer him the 2/$45M extension. I don't think they thought he'd accept, but I do think they thought someone else would value him enough to trade real assets for him.
To me, I think they saw Caris and Dipo as similar players, and thought they could play Oladipo, get him a bunch of stats, then get more for Oladipo in a trade than Caris. They didn't, at all.
I think Caris easily gets them what Dipo got them in return at the deadline. it wasn't as if he was a negative asset, you could get a 2nd and expiring without any doubt.

HOU just has a rookie GM who isn't very good at this by all indications, and he fucked up.
 

benhogan

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They did offer him the 2/$45M extension. I don't think they thought he'd accept, but I do think they thought someone else would value him enough to trade real assets for him.
To me, I think they saw Caris and Dipo as similar players, and thought they could play Oladipo, get him a bunch of stats, then get more for Oladipo in a trade than Caris. They didn't, at all.
I think Caris easily gets them what Dipo got them in return at the deadline. it wasn't as if he was a negative asset, you could get a 2nd and expiring without any doubt.

HOU just has a rookie GM who isn't very good at this by all indications, and he fucked up.
The Harden drama was a mess from Day #1 this year and the subsequent deal was pretty dreadful.

but the GM had a handful of decent moves:
1. Wood S&T
2. signing Tate for 3yrs at $4.5MM
3. KPJ for a pack of peanuts
4. adding Nwaba, Sterling Brown

Hoping OKC gets Houston's pick this season, they go into full tank mode, and put Wood on the market.
 

nighthob

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They did offer him the 2/$45M extension. I don't think they thought he'd accept, but I do think they thought someone else would value him enough to trade real assets for him.
To me, I think they saw Caris and Dipo as similar players, and thought they could play Oladipo, get him a bunch of stats, then get more for Oladipo in a trade than Caris. They didn't, at all.
I think Caris easily gets them what Dipo got them in return at the deadline. it wasn't as if he was a negative asset, you could get a 2nd and expiring without any doubt.

HOU just has a rookie GM who isn't very good at this by all indications, and he fucked up.
I'm positive that they could have gotten a late first in a mediocre draft for LaVert. But that was sort of the point, LaVert didn't have a lot of value because he's always injured. Literally always. Just as Oladipo's been for three years running now. They prayed that Dip could regain enough form to have value, he didn't. Sure, if he were healthy and if he'd signed the extension they might have gotten two or three low firsts for him. It was a giant gamble that they felt constrained to take because the Harden trade didn't involve a lot of talent coming their way.

If Indiana decided to use LaVert as the centerpiece of a trade, they wouldn't get much unless they attached their '21 lottery pick to him. He just isn't terribly valuable.
 

nighthob

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The Harden drama was a mess from Day #1 this year and the subsequent deal was pretty dreadful.

but the GM had a handful of decent moves:
1. Wood S&T
2. signing Tate for 3yrs at $4.5MM
3. KPJ for a pack of peanuts
4. adding Nwaba, Sterling Brown

Hoping OKC gets Houston's pick this season, they go into full tank mode, and put Wood on the market.
They don't need to trade Wood to lose 60 games. And he's basically their only asset at the moment thanks to that contact. If he goes on the market they're getting a mint for him.
 

the moops

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It won't happen, but a Kemba + Jaylen for Westbrook + Beal (with an assurance of resigning) would be a superb return. A team of Westbrook, Smart, Beal, Tatum, TL with a bench of Fournier, Nesmith, Langford, TT would be so switchable and athletic.
 

benhogan

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They don't need to trade Wood to lose 60 games. And he's basically their only asset at the moment thanks to that contact. If he goes on the market they're getting a mint for him.
Probably the best value signing last offseason. They should collect that mint now while his value (2yrs) is greatest. Start gathering draft picks Presti-style, then you can spend major time going through prospect tape.

Wood is another young player I'd love the Celtics to pry away. What's the estimated cost?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Probably the best value signing last offseason. They should collect that mint now while his value (2yrs) is greatest. Start gathering draft picks Presti-style, then you can spend major time going through prospect tape.

Wood is another young player I'd love the Celtics to pry away. What's the estimated cost?
I haven’t seen a lot of Wood these past two years but when he was bouncing around his rep was awful. He had a ton of Hassan Whiteside in him. Hopefully he keeps his head on the game and not othe distraction that come with money.
 

reggiecleveland

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It won't happen, but a Kemba + Jaylen for Westbrook + Beal (with an assurance of resigning) would be a superb return. A team of Westbrook, Smart, Beal, Tatum, TL with a bench of Fournier, Nesmith, Langford, TT would be so switchable and athletic.
Declining Westbrook as third best player on the team...would be interesting
 

fairlee76

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Don't you mean "prudent"...at this juncture?
Hah! My one contribution to this thread and I was way too slow.

And I’d trade two years of Kemba for two years of Russ in a heartbeat. Would probably be the best they could do in a Kemba move (wild ass guess, obviously). Please no Porzingis.
 

benhogan

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I haven’t seen a lot of Wood these past two years but when he was bouncing around his rep was awful. He had a ton of Hassan Whiteside in him. Hopefully he keeps his head on the game and not othe distraction that come with money.
Here is a recap vid.

Bentley on a minimum contract :oops: was very immature when he first came into the league

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGgRQTq02jk
 

nighthob

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It won't happen, but a Kemba + Jaylen for Westbrook + Beal (with an assurance of resigning) would be a superb return. A team of Westbrook, Smart, Beal, Tatum, TL with a bench of Fournier, Nesmith, Langford, TT would be so switchable and athletic.
If you included #16 and other picks it would have a possibility. It would definitely give the Celtics a puncher's chance at the title. It would be amusing, at the least, watching Irving and Harden trying to defend Boston's new backcourt.
 

nighthob

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I can't see that happening anyway. Seem the two best players in the trade are coming to Boston.
I'd disagree. Brown is a much more efficient scorer than Westbrook who's in decline. I agree that Boston would be getting the best player, and the Wiz would be trying to rebuild around Brown and whatever ellse they got with the picks, and it might not be ideal. But shaving $20 million in payroll commitments is probably worth the while.
 

scottyno

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They don't need to trade Wood to lose 60 games. And he's basically their only asset at the moment thanks to that contact. If he goes on the market they're getting a mint for him.
Weren't you the one arguing at the deadline that the team after the Harden trade with Oladipo wasn't terrible and that they had several useful vets they could sell as assets?
 

nighthob

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I think I said that I was surprised that Wall wasn’t completely washed. But that was about as far as I went. He’d be an asset if he made a third the money. They were pretty awful last year. I do know that some people started crowing prematurely when Houston won five or six games in a row after the Harden trade. But the wheels fell off the wagon really quickly.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I just watched a quick A List broadcast with A. Sherrod Blakely and Gary Washburn. They didn't have a lot of solid information but when pressed, Washburn thinks Billups will be the next coach. Blakley asked GW which rotation player would not be in Boston next year and his response was Granite (somewhere, radsox fist pumps while staring at another grainy image...and I am not talking about work. Its Romeo's future career path...). Washburn was asked about Nesmith and thinks he is bound to be a solid rotation player but could be better. Washburn also said that the new coach was likely to have the greatest impact as the Celtics cap situation and Stevens new role means its unlikely for Boston to make a big deal this offseason (aside from a Kemba trade).

Again, it was kind of light on information but both agreed and seemed to expect that Tatum and Brown would be consulted on any potential new hires.
 

Cellar-Door

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I just watched a quick A List broadcast with A. Sherrod Blakely and Gary Washburn. They didn't have a lot of solid information but when pressed, Washburn thinks Billups will be the next coach. Blakley asked GW which rotation player would not be in Boston next year and his response was Granite (somewhere, radsox fist pumps while staring at another grainy image...and I am not talking about work. Its Romeo's future career path...). Washburn was asked about Nesmith and thinks he is bound to be a solid rotation player but could be better. Washburn also said that the new coach was likely to have the greatest impact as the Celtics cap situation and Stevens new role means its unlikely for Boston to make a big deal this offseason (aside from a Kemba trade).

Again, it was kind of light on information but both agreed and seemed to expect that Tatum and Brown would be consulted on any potential new hires.
Lol, ah yes no impact trades other than trading away your starting PG/3rd best player.
 

benhogan

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I just watched a quick A List broadcast with A. Sherrod Blakely and Gary Washburn. They didn't have a lot of solid information but when pressed, Washburn thinks Billups will be the next coach. Blakley asked GW which rotation player would not be in Boston next year and his response was Granite (somewhere, radsox fist pumps while staring at another grainy image...and I am not talking about work. Its Romeo's future career path...). Washburn was asked about Nesmith and thinks he is bound to be a solid rotation player but could be better. Washburn also said that the new coach was likely to have the greatest impact as the Celtics cap situation and Stevens new role means its unlikely for Boston to make a big deal this offseason (aside from a Kemba trade).

Again, it was kind of light on information but both agreed and seemed to expect that Tatum and Brown would be consulted on any potential new hires.
was Granite even a rotation player by the season's end?

he flipped the term "Grant play" on its head
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Blakley asked GW which rotation player would not be in Boston next year and his response was Granite
I heard Gary Washburn on a podcast (either Forsberg's or Kaufman's) and he was terrible.

I'm curious - did Washburn say why he thinks that GW will be gone? I mean the Cs picked up his option in December and he makes a minimal amount of money plus the Cs have control for, what, 2 more years so there's got to be a good reason the Cs dump him and eat his salary?

The Cs currently have 11 players under contract, a slot for the #16 pick, and Semi, Kornet, and NG. The first person who is going to go is Semi mainly because of his salary. Sure there's a chance that GW is dumped if they need a roster spot but it's hard to see what the Cs can do to make the extra $ worthwhile.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I heard Gary Washburn on a podcast (either Forsberg's or Kaufman's) and he was terrible.

I'm curious - did Washburn say why he thinks that GW will be gone? I mean the Cs picked up his option in December and he makes a minimal amount of money plus the Cs have control for, what, 2 more years so there's got to be a good reason the Cs dump him and eat his salary?

The Cs currently have 11 players under contract, a slot for the #16 pick, and Semi, Kornet, and NG. The first person who is going to go is Semi mainly because of his salary. Sure there's a chance that GW is dumped if they need a roster spot but it's hard to see what the Cs can do to make the extra $ worthwhile.
He did not - it was a rapid fire question format so I would discount it heavily. The only reason its noteworthy is that I think this forum would have guessed Smart or TT first but maybe rotation means pure bench to Washburn.

As I said, there wasn't a lot of signal there but at least those two people have some access to the organization and players so its interesting to see what they are focused on versus us.

I will say that despite a lot of speculation about bad locker room chemistry around here, we aren't getting much color that it was a big issue for Boston - neither Blakeley or Washburn referenced it so that is, at least, a potential positive.
 

TripleOT

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Move Kemba at the deadline for expiring contracts if they can’t move him this summer, and clear room to sign FA Beal next summer.

In the meantime, draft a useful player at 16, and bring in a couple of solid minimum salary vets on one year deals. Develop Nesmith, Romeo, PP, and #16 to build up trade value, as sweeteners on a Kemba deadline deal.
 

thehitcat

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Move Kemba at the deadline for expiring contracts if they can’t move him this summer, and clear room to sign FA Beal next summer.

In the meantime, draft a useful player at 16, and bring in a couple of solid minimum salary vets on one year deals. Develop Nesmith, Romeo, PP, and #16 to build up trade value, as sweeteners on a Kemba deadline deal.
Your common sense and well thought out opinions have no place here. Or yeah that makes sense as the fall back if they can't move Kemba this summer without taking on something worse.
 

Cellar-Door

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Move Kemba at the deadline for expiring contracts if they can’t move him this summer, and clear room to sign FA Beal next summer.

In the meantime, draft a useful player at 16, and bring in a couple of solid minimum salary vets on one year deals. Develop Nesmith, Romeo, PP, and #16 to build up trade value, as sweeteners on a Kemba deadline deal.
signing Beal would be close to impossible unless you truly stripped it down to... Tatum, Brown, Langford, Nesmith, PP, 16 and that's it. You;d have to let Smart walk for nothing, let TL walk for nothing, basically tank this year.....

Yeah, if you want Beal and he wants you, you're much better off swinging a S&T, and if that is the plan you might as well keep Kemba for the salary match.

Edit- I REALLY doubt the Celtics plan to go below the cap anytime during the Tatum/Brown contracts. You're much better off building assets and getting the MLE.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Or yeah that makes sense as the fall back if they can't move Kemba this summer without taking on something worse.
Is an unhappy Kemba going to have more value at the trade deadline than he does now? I assume that if he's still with the Cs, he's still going to have to be load managed. And he's had stem cell injections in December plus multiple weeks/months of strengthening exercises so what other treatment options does he have?

Finally, if Kemba is playing well and his knee if feeling good at the break, it's certainly possible that he will change his mind (and the Cs as well) about being traded.

There's not a lot out there that makes sense.
 
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Whether Kemba is still here or not, doesn't it make some sense to bring Yam Madar over, maybe on a two-way deal? He can replace Waters or Edwards, and if he flashes anything, a 6'3" point guard might be nice to have in case Kemba's knee goes south even faster than it already is.
 

lexrageorge

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Whether Kemba is still here or not, doesn't it make some sense to bring Yam Madar over, maybe on a two-way deal? He can replace Waters or Edwards, and if he flashes anything, a 6'3" point guard might be nice to have in case Kemba's knee goes south even faster than it already is.
A 2-way may be difficult, in that his salary would probably be quite a bit less than what he would earn in the Euro leagues. Still, he would be fine occupying the 15th slot on the big club roster.

But I'm one of those that feel that Edwards' $1.8M guarantee is not a big deal and should not prevent the Celtics from moving on from him, and I have no idea of Stevens/Wyc feel the same way.
 

gammoseditor

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A 2-way may be difficult, in that his salary would probably be quite a bit less than what he would earn in the Euro leagues. Still, he would be fine occupying the 15th slot on the big club roster.

But I'm one of those that feel that Edwards' $1.8M guarantee is not a big deal and should not prevent the Celtics from moving on from him, and I have no idea of Stevens/Wyc feel the same way.
I think the only reason Edwards stuck around was because they were staying under the luxury tax. They even dumped Theis to facilitate the Fournier trade. If they replaced Edwards earlier in the year that’s another salary getting them closer to the tax and limiting flexibility.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Whether Kemba is still here or not, doesn't it make some sense to bring Yam Madar over, maybe on a two-way deal? He can replace Waters or Edwards, and if he flashes anything, a 6'3" point guard might be nice to have in case Kemba's knee goes south even faster than it already is.
Campazzo was considered the best PG overseas and he is best suited for a 2nd unit role. Madar is a good player on an awful team in a low level league. I don’t think it is realistic to expect him to play at Campazzo’s level to be close to a good 2nd unit contributor for awhile.
 

SoxFanInPdx

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There is some chatter out here in Portland (a personal source that I will keep anonymous) that if Lillard wants out - they will be interested in a package for Brown, possibly Kemba as well + picks. Something to keep an eye on at least.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There is some chatter out here in Portland (a personal source that I will keep anonymous) that if Lillard wants out - they will be interested in a package for Brown, possibly Kemba as well + picks. Something to keep an eye on at least.
Setting aside the merits of a Celtics/Blazers deal, the fact that anyone close to the team would even entertain a Lillard trade is remarkable in and of itself.

The other factor at play here is that while just about any team would take Lillard under the right set of circumstances, all the other issues with him - age, size and balance of contract - probably limit his market. I don't see the Celtics as a natural fit for this trade but given their own set of issues, they are certainly on a potential list.
 

cheech13

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If Lillard becomes available would GS be willing to offer Wiseman/Wiggins/Minny pick/‘21 GS 1st? That, or Simmons/Maxey/multiple picks are the only deals I’d consider if I were Portland and only if Lillard asks for a trade.
 

Cesar Crespo

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There is some chatter out here in Portland (a personal source that I will keep anonymous) that if Lillard wants out - they will be interested in a package for Brown, possibly Kemba as well + picks. Something to keep an eye on at least.
No clue how they'd make a Lillard for Brown and Walker deal work financially.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If Lillard becomes available would GS be willing to offer Wiseman/Wiggins/Minny pick/‘21 GS 1st? That, or Simmons/Maxey/multiple picks are the only deals I’d consider if I were Portland and only if Lillard asks for a trade.
Its difficult to see GS as a serious bidder despite Lillard's ties to the Bay Area etc and that isn't even the roster fit issue - that contract seems like a huge price to pay for GS to try and stretch their window. Who knows though?

My guess is that his realistic market - because again he presumably is going to have a large say in his destination - is probably some subset of all the teams who made the actual playoffs this season. Frankly, the more I think about a potential Lillard to Boston trade, the fit for both sides may make a lot of sense in some ways.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Lillard/Covington for Brown/Walker works as does Lillard/DJJ if he picks up his option
That's $51.3 million for $60.8. I don't know how accurate the Real GM trade checker is but it declined the trade.

It's 51.3m x 1.25 +100k?

According to that, it would work. I dunno.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That's $51.3 million for $60.8. I don't know how accurate the Real GM trade checker is but it declined the trade.

It's 51.3m x 1.25 +100k?

According to that, it would work. I dunno.
I think the trade checkers are crappy for deals like this - presumably if the teams want to make a big deal like this, they have all sorts of levers at their disposal to make the parts fit. That doesn't mean it will but my guess is that there are multiple paths to a potential trade (as CD notes, Portland has some S&T candidates etc).

Edit: and I think if you are Portland and are moving Lillard, you are likely motivated to move on from some of the veterans like a Covington or Jones Jr.. They are the most likely pieces to be moved as part of a package to move Dame.
 

TripleOT

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Tatum and Dame probably isn’t enough at the top of the roster to contend. Boston should not trade Brown for Dame.

I doubt the Blazers would do it, but Kemba, PP, Nesmith, three first round picks and two pick swaps would similar to the return in the Harden trade, except Portland would have to take on two years of paying Kemba.

Assuming they can’t get a top all star or a potential top all star for Dame, and he insists on being traded, they should tear it down and go the OKC route with high picks from their own lousy record and a bunch of firsts to hopefully find a Donovan Mitchell type or a Bam type after the top picks in the draft.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Tatum and Dame probably isn’t enough at the top of the roster to contend. Boston should not trade Brown for Dame.

I doubt the Blazers would do it, but Kemba, PP, Nesmith, three first round picks and two pick swaps would similar to the return in the Harden trade, except Portland would have to take on two years of paying Kemba.

Assuming they can’t get a top all star or a potential top all star for Dame, and he insists on being traded, they should tear it down and go the OKC route with high picks from their own lousy record and a bunch of firsts to hopefully find a Donovan Mitchell type or a Bam type after the top picks in the draft.
I'd agree, but if the players the C's got back were on expiring deals, the C's would have room to add a max guy to Tatum and Dame after 21/22. I'm not sure how much Dame has in the tank but including Kemba moves the needle a bit, assuming it frees up cap space after 21/22.

Literally the only players they'd have under contract after 21/22 would be Dame and Tatum, assuming they didn't sign Smart or Fournier. They could probably sign one of them too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Let's dispense with a developing narrative that Lillard has peaked. Certainly, a 31 year old ~6'2" guard is a candidate for a rapid decline however Lillard's best two seasons were this year and last across just about any measure. He is incredibly durable and has shown no signs of breaking down yet.

As with any acquisition, there are risks but the expectation should be that Lillard produces at or near this level for the next year or two. To be clear, that doesn't mean you trade Jaylen Brown for him - I might love Jaylen Brown more than most here - but you absolutely have to consider it. Even if you get two seasons of Dame Lillard as a top 10-15 player before he falls off, that is more than likely better production than Brown will provide over that time.
 

djbayko

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Tatum and Dame probably isn’t enough at the top of the roster to contend. Boston should not trade Brown for Dame.

I doubt the Blazers would do it, but Kemba, PP, Nesmith, three first round picks and two pick swaps would similar to the return in the Harden trade, except Portland would have to take on two years of paying Kemba.

Assuming they can’t get a top all star or a potential top all star for Dame, and he insists on being traded, they should tear it down and go the OKC route with high picks from their own lousy record and a bunch of firsts to hopefully find a Donovan Mitchell type or a Bam type after the top picks in the draft.
If Tatum and Lillard aren't enough at the top of the roster, then Tatum and Brown will never be. I know that you want to add a 3rd top player to Tatum and Brown - everyone here does. But if Portland won't go for Kemba++, then what do you do? You have to try to improve your ballclub somehow, and Lillard doesn't have to be the final move.