They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.is prime IT4 his ceiling?
They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.is prime IT4 his ceiling?
IT was a great finisher, while Edwards isn't. But Edwards is more of a shooter - IT was pretty lousy at the pullup 3 (even while being very good at the spot up 3), while Edwards seems to be able to create a decent shot for himself any time he wants one.They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.
Edwards is 5'10" and change in bare feet, even with shoes he's 2 inches shorter than Gordon is barefoot. 4 inches in height and about 25 lbs in weight is a pretty huge difference.I think his ceiling is Eric Gordon, who is listed at 6-4, but who is only 6-2 without shoes. Edwards has a similar stocky build.
I don't think there's anyone until the last few years who routinely did this kind of stuff:What about former Big 10 guy Shawn Respert as a comp? Carsen has a better handle, but they're in the same size category as scorers/shooters.
I suspect Ben Hogan was being facetious and more commenting on Edwards’ floor being really effective bench scorer.They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.
Daniel Ray Ainge: Taking Philadelphia to the woodshed since 1983.Interesting write-up from Liberty Ballers here: https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/8/18657776/carsen-edwards-scouting-report-purdue-boilermakers-philadelphia-76ers-nba-draft.
Article notes the following CE: "At the NBA Draft Combine, Edwards [ranked] seventh in lane agility, third in the shuttle run, and sixth in max bench press among 58 participants."
And also says this about CE's last season:
"Carsen Edwards was basically an elite shooter as a sophomore:- 40.6% from 3 (6.5 attempts/game, 40% of makes were unassisted)- 42.4% on 2-point jumpers (74% of makes were unassisted)- 95th percentile in off-the-dribble jumpers- 76th percentile on catch-and-shoots"
I like my initial comp for ceiling...Fred VanVleetI suspect Ben Hogan was being facetious and more commenting on Edwards’ floor being really effective bench scorer.
Ooooo, this is my favorite one so far, I think that is a very reasonable comp.He gives me an Eddie House vibe, but with better ball handling.
Maybe my memory sucks, but did House have anywhere close to that kind of off-the-bounce range? That seems to be Carsen's big selling point.Ooooo, this is my favorite one so far, I think that is a very reasonable comp.
The NBA has changed so much that it's hard to compare shooting range for a guy like House to a guy like Edwards, who has grown up with Steph Curry and others stretching the boundaries of what is deemed an acceptable shot. He was a 39 percent three point shooter for his career though; is a similar size/build as Edwards. I think if he were to have House's career (a second-round draft pick, 11 year career, 7.5 career ppg) it would be a solid outcome for Edwards.Maybe my memory sucks, but did House have anywhere close to that kind of off-the-bounce range? That seems to be Carsen's big selling point.
Totally agree re the changes--the thing is, the change is the one interesting thing here, so it's hard to compare.The NBA has changed so much that it's hard to compare shooting range for a guy like House to a guy like Edwards, who has grown up with Steph Curry and others stretching the boundaries of what is deemed an acceptable shot. He was a 39 percent three point shooter for his career though; is a similar size/build as Edwards. I think if he were to have House's career (a second-round draft pick, 11 year career, 7.5 career ppg) it would be a solid outcome for Edwards.
Some random guy who often live-Tweets games and posts a ton of NBA thoughts also agrees:I'm going to go ahead and get irrationally excited about Edwards. His 3-point shot-making is special, even in the NBA, and he has a really strong burst to use as a counter.
Kendrick Perkins@KendrickPerkins
It’s no way in Hell Carsen Edwards should have went in the second round. Looking like a Lottery Pick to me. GMs must have a different set of eyes then the rest of us lol!
Respert was a much better pure shooter. Edwards probably had better handle. The problem with Respert as a comp is that he had cancer in his early NBA career which helped kill it. It was something he kept quiet for years.What about former Big 10 guy Shawn Respert as a comp? Carsen has a better handle, but they're in the same size category as scorers/shooters.
We should be thrilled if he ends up being Dell Curry.Edward's ceiling is Steph Curry. His floor is Seth Curry.
Nope. Not even in his very best case scenario.Edward's ceiling is Steph Curry.
Indeed.We should be thrilled if he ends up being Dell Curry.
It’s probably more interesting to compare him to Trae Young. They have similar length, both can launch (Edwards might be a better shooter). Young is at a completely different level as a passer, which is why he went at #5 and not #33.Edward's ceiling is Steph Curry. His floor is Seth Curry.
CE showed some passing chops in SL. From what little I saw of him in college, he was a one man band, and wasn't there to pass. I was (maybe not so) obviously being cheeky with the Curry ceiling and floor, but this guy shoots the deep ball well.It’s probably more interesting to compare him to Trae Young. They have similar length, both can launch (Edwards might be a better shooter). Young is at a completely different level as a passer, which is why he went at #5 and not #33.
OTOH -- He's 55 years old, so they'll have to be careful with his minutes.Since Dell Curry was a career 40% 3-point shooter with a 17-year career and one 6th man of the year award, yes, that would be just fine.
He gives me an Eddie House vibe, but with better ball handling.
Given the context the House on fire picture is perfect. Edwards shot 47% on 45 3PA in 5 SL games. He is an arsonist and an assassin. Screw SSS and SL competitiveness relative to the NBA, his ceiling is nothing short of best three point shooter ever.View attachment 25252
I just wanted to post a classic House on fire image from the championship season game thread. I don’t think House and Carsen are similar.
I think if you traded Carsen to Charlotte or something he’d average 15- 20pts a game with 4 assists while being reasonable defending PGs. He’s a natural self creating volume scorer. His a lot stronger than most of the comps out there which is relevant both on offense and defense. I think whether he’s a 6th man or an NBA starter comes down to how efficient he becomes as a scorer and/or whether he learns to pass. I like the Lou Williams and Eric Gordon comps as good outcomes for Carsen. I think his floor is much lower and his ceiling is a bit higher than that. He could be too inefficient and flame out or he could start and be a borderline star. Interesting player.
That's kinda why I get an Eddie House vibe from him. Undersized 2-guard who can (hopefully) get hot and hit a cluster of 3's in short order.Seriously though, I am looking forward to his instant offense off the bench this year.
Agree—abstracting away Carsen’s off the dribble ability and comparing him to catch-and-shoot guys ignores the only thing that makes him unique (or gives him a chance in the NBA).Eddie was much more of a pure spot up guy than I suspect Edwards will be, with 89% of his 3s and 63% of his 2s assisted. Carsen can certainly shoot oof the catch, and do it well while moving, but think his percent-assisted numbers will be much lower than House’s which is a good thing. He could have defense-altering gravity with his quick trigger off the dribble. If he makes strides with handling and vision, he’s really got elite offensive potential.
While players throughout the league have taken to scribbling a series of phrases along their shoes in recent years, Edwards has his own pregame writing ritual. After wrapping athletic tape three times around his left wrist, he'll write a series of quick expressions in all caps for motivation:
"HELP MAMA OUT. THANK GOD. HAVE FUN. KILL EVERYTHING"
Sounds like a modern day Vinnie Johnson, who killed the Cs at time.Eddie was much more of a pure spot up guy than I suspect Edwards will be, with 89% of his 3s and 63% of his 2s assisted. Carsen can certainly shoot oof the catch, and do it well while moving, but think his percent-assisted numbers will be much lower than House’s which is a good thing. He could have defense-altering gravity with his quick trigger off the dribble. If he makes strides with handling and vision, he’s really got elite offensive potential.
"I can just picture my parents if I'm wearing some crazy colors -- 'You're not producing enough to be wearing crazy colors. Why don't you go do something first?'
Not every player. Spencer Didwiddle didn't get any offers...so he made his own line.Does every single player get a shoe deal? Never paid any attention to this stuff, but I find it really odd that someone in the mid second round would get a shoe deal. I'm excited about him, sure, but there's got to be >100 players in the NBA with more name recognition.
I just wanted to give this thread and Wade's post a bump...the Liberty Ballers article is Arsen porn with the added touch of the 76ers whiffing.Interesting write-up from Liberty Ballers here: https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/8/18657776/carsen-edwards-scouting-report-purdue-boilermakers-philadelphia-76ers-nba-draft.
Article notes the following CE: "At the NBA Draft Combine, Edwards [ranked] seventh in lane agility, third in the shuttle run, and sixth in max bench press among 58 participants."
And also says this about CE's last season:
"Carsen Edwards was basically an elite shooter as a sophomore:- 40.6% from 3 (6.5 attempts/game, 40% of makes were unassisted)- 42.4% on 2-point jumpers (74% of makes were unassisted)- 95th percentile in off-the-dribble jumpers- 76th percentile on catch-and-shoots"
Edwards did the combine twice, both times came in at 6.025" 199 with a pretty nice 6'6" wingspan. Finding comps is actually a little hard for his body.
.
Ty Lawson, Patty Mills are heigh comps, but his wingspan blows them away
2007-8 had an interesting comp... Mike Conley, who is 0.5" taller, but has about 0.5" less wingspan and was 20+ pounds lighter
2005-6 had an Ray Felton, exact same height and weight, but shorter wingspan
So we'll see how he turns out, but maybe some potential to be not bad defensively in that huge wingspan.
According to the recent, bare feet measures, he is just under 6 feet and a touch shorter than Kemba. I think he'll be fine in the NBA, but a real question for him will be whether he can either defend NBA 2s despite being shorter than they or develop enough PG skills to play the point. He's going to make a lot of money in the NBA regardless, but if he can't play alongside a typical PG or play PG himself, then teams will need have the right kind of roster to minimize his limitations. (For example, this Celtics team has a couple of guys who can run the offense and match up against bigger players on defense (Smart, Hayward). But it would be difficult to play Edwards significant minutes alongside Kemba.Dude. Just above your post we see he's 6' 1/4". Totally different
Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.According to the recent, bare feet measures, he is just under 6 feet and a touch shorter than Kemba. I think he'll be fine in the NBA, but a real question for him will be whether he can either defend NBA 2s despite being shorter than they or develop enough PG skills to play the point. He's going to make a lot of money in the NBA regardless, but if he can't play alongside a typical PG or play PG himself, then teams will need have the right kind of roster to minimize his limitations. (For example, this Celtics team has a couple of guys who can run the offense and match up against bigger players on defense (Smart, Hayward). But it would be difficult to play Edwards significant minutes alongside Kemba.
No need for now--he'll probably play ~15mins/night this year, almost all with Smart. The issue is that if Arson did turn out to be a guy you want to play for 30+ mins a night, it's very hard to find those minutes with Kemba playing PG.Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.
Yes. My point was less about Edwards’ place on the current Celtics and more about his long term NBA upside.Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.