Celtics pick Carsen Edwards at #33 in 2nd Rd (Are you glad you stayed awake now?)

Big John

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I think his ceiling is Eric Gordon, who is listed at 6-4, but who is only 6-2 without shoes. Edwards has a similar stocky build.
 

Eddie Jurak

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They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.
IT was a great finisher, while Edwards isn't. But Edwards is more of a shooter - IT was pretty lousy at the pullup 3 (even while being very good at the spot up 3), while Edwards seems to be able to create a decent shot for himself any time he wants one.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think his ceiling is Eric Gordon, who is listed at 6-4, but who is only 6-2 without shoes. Edwards has a similar stocky build.
Edwards is 5'10" and change in bare feet, even with shoes he's 2 inches shorter than Gordon is barefoot. 4 inches in height and about 25 lbs in weight is a pretty huge difference.
His closest physical comps (height/weight/wingspan) are Johnny Flynn and Will Blalock. Ty Lawson would be close if Ty didn't have such a short wingspan.
 

Big John

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No question that Edwards is shorter. But the skillset and build are similar. David Wesley is another guy who comes to mind as a comparable for Edwards.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What about former Big 10 guy Shawn Respert as a comp? Carsen has a better handle, but they're in the same size category as scorers/shooters.
I don't think there's anyone until the last few years who routinely did this kind of stuff:


(Specifically, I mean his outside shooting. Nothing else he does is unique to him or the current era).
 

nighthob

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They're pretty different, IT was tiny with elite explosiveness, Edwards is bigger, stronger, but less explosive. His ceiling is probably Lou Williams.
I suspect Ben Hogan was being facetious and more commenting on Edwards’ floor being really effective bench scorer.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting write-up from Liberty Ballers here: https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/8/18657776/carsen-edwards-scouting-report-purdue-boilermakers-philadelphia-76ers-nba-draft.

Article notes the following CE: "At the NBA Draft Combine, Edwards [ranked] seventh in lane agility, third in the shuttle run, and sixth in max bench press among 58 participants."

And also says this about CE's last season:

"Carsen Edwards was basically an elite shooter as a sophomore:
- 40.6% from 3 (6.5 attempts/game, 40% of makes were unassisted)
- 42.4% on 2-point jumpers (74% of makes were unassisted)
- 95th percentile in off-the-dribble jumpers
- 76th percentile on catch-and-shoots"
 

JohnnyTheBone

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Interesting write-up from Liberty Ballers here: https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/8/18657776/carsen-edwards-scouting-report-purdue-boilermakers-philadelphia-76ers-nba-draft.

Article notes the following CE: "At the NBA Draft Combine, Edwards [ranked] seventh in lane agility, third in the shuttle run, and sixth in max bench press among 58 participants."

And also says this about CE's last season:

"Carsen Edwards was basically an elite shooter as a sophomore:
- 40.6% from 3 (6.5 attempts/game, 40% of makes were unassisted)
- 42.4% on 2-point jumpers (74% of makes were unassisted)
- 95th percentile in off-the-dribble jumpers
- 76th percentile on catch-and-shoots"
Daniel Ray Ainge: Taking Philadelphia to the woodshed since 1983.
 

Kliq

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Maybe my memory sucks, but did House have anywhere close to that kind of off-the-bounce range? That seems to be Carsen's big selling point.
The NBA has changed so much that it's hard to compare shooting range for a guy like House to a guy like Edwards, who has grown up with Steph Curry and others stretching the boundaries of what is deemed an acceptable shot. He was a 39 percent three point shooter for his career though; is a similar size/build as Edwards. I think if he were to have House's career (a second-round draft pick, 11 year career, 7.5 career ppg) it would be a solid outcome for Edwards.
 

lovegtm

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The NBA has changed so much that it's hard to compare shooting range for a guy like House to a guy like Edwards, who has grown up with Steph Curry and others stretching the boundaries of what is deemed an acceptable shot. He was a 39 percent three point shooter for his career though; is a similar size/build as Edwards. I think if he were to have House's career (a second-round draft pick, 11 year career, 7.5 career ppg) it would be a solid outcome for Edwards.
Totally agree re the changes--the thing is, the change is the one interesting thing here, so it's hard to compare.

I don't know that comparing shooting %s tells us much of anything when you look at the types of looks Edwards took. Few players pre-Curry at any level would have been able to do that and not get insta-benched.

It makes Edwards interesting to me, because he's in such a small category that doesn't have many comps yet.
 

lovegtm

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I'm going to go ahead and get irrationally excited about Edwards. His 3-point shot-making is special, even in the NBA, and he has a really strong burst to use as a counter.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm going to go ahead and get irrationally excited about Edwards. His 3-point shot-making is special, even in the NBA, and he has a really strong burst to use as a counter.
Some random guy who often live-Tweets games and posts a ton of NBA thoughts also agrees:

It’s no way in Hell Carsen Edwards should have went in the second round. Looking like a Lottery Pick to me. GMs must have a different set of eyes then the rest of us lol!
 

Soxfan in Fla

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What about former Big 10 guy Shawn Respert as a comp? Carsen has a better handle, but they're in the same size category as scorers/shooters.
Respert was a much better pure shooter. Edwards probably had better handle. The problem with Respert as a comp is that he had cancer in his early NBA career which helped kill it. It was something he kept quiet for years.
 

slamminsammya

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Pretty exciting to see him draining those threes off the bounce. Especially because his form (to my totally amateur eye) looks really classic.
 

RoDaddy

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Edward’s biggest asset might not be shooting, scoring or dribbling but swag. He plays like he THINKS he’s Iverson! It’s why he doesn’t think twice before heaving it up from 35 feet. It’s part of why his handle is so good. It’s probably affects the intensity of his cuts, which I believe Stevens raved about. At the end of the day, his swag makes a good shooter and scorer a better shooter and scorer
 

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Since Dell Curry was a career 40% 3-point shooter with a 17-year career and one 6th man of the year award, yes, that would be just fine.
 

lovegtm

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Edward's ceiling is Steph Curry. His floor is Seth Curry.
It’s probably more interesting to compare him to Trae Young. They have similar length, both can launch (Edwards might be a better shooter). Young is at a completely different level as a passer, which is why he went at #5 and not #33.

Edwards seems like he can be less of a defensive liability, just because he’s built like a tank. He also looks like a more explosive athlete than Young.

To be clear, Young is in another league as a passer, which puts him on another tier. But they’re comparable in enough other ways that it will be interesting to compare how their careers play out.
 

TripleOT

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It’s probably more interesting to compare him to Trae Young. They have similar length, both can launch (Edwards might be a better shooter). Young is at a completely different level as a passer, which is why he went at #5 and not #33.
CE showed some passing chops in SL. From what little I saw of him in college, he was a one man band, and wasn't there to pass. I was (maybe not so) obviously being cheeky with the Curry ceiling and floor, but this guy shoots the deep ball well.

In his first taste of pro ball, he lit it up from three, at 46.6%, 21-45 in the five games, with many of the shots well behind the three point arc. He has a very quick trigger, which will serve him well at his size, and he can generate threes without the benefit of an assist. Edwards also showed ability to get to the rim and finish, and was 50% from two, 13-26.
 

joe dokes

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Since Dell Curry was a career 40% 3-point shooter with a 17-year career and one 6th man of the year award, yes, that would be just fine.
OTOH -- He's 55 years old, so they'll have to be careful with his minutes.

(I kid, of course. Your point is spot on. Dell is criminally underrated. Inevitable, I suppose given Steph's exploits.)
 

amarshal2

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He gives me an Eddie House vibe, but with better ball handling.
25252

I just wanted to post a classic House on fire image from the championship season game thread. I don’t think House and Carsen are similar.

I think if you traded Carsen to Charlotte or something he’d average 15- 20pts a game with 4 assists while being reasonable defending PGs. He’s a natural self creating volume scorer. His a lot stronger than most of the comps out there which is relevant both on offense and defense. I think whether he’s a 6th man or an NBA starter comes down to how efficient he becomes as a scorer and/or whether he learns to pass. I like the Lou Williams and Eric Gordon comps as good outcomes for Carsen. I think his floor is much lower and his ceiling is a bit higher than that. He could be too inefficient and flame out or he could start and be a borderline star. Interesting player.
 

bigq

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View attachment 25252

I just wanted to post a classic House on fire image from the championship season game thread. I don’t think House and Carsen are similar.

I think if you traded Carsen to Charlotte or something he’d average 15- 20pts a game with 4 assists while being reasonable defending PGs. He’s a natural self creating volume scorer. His a lot stronger than most of the comps out there which is relevant both on offense and defense. I think whether he’s a 6th man or an NBA starter comes down to how efficient he becomes as a scorer and/or whether he learns to pass. I like the Lou Williams and Eric Gordon comps as good outcomes for Carsen. I think his floor is much lower and his ceiling is a bit higher than that. He could be too inefficient and flame out or he could start and be a borderline star. Interesting player.
Given the context the House on fire picture is perfect. Edwards shot 47% on 45 3PA in 5 SL games. He is an arsonist and an assassin. Screw SSS and SL competitiveness relative to the NBA, his ceiling is nothing short of best three point shooter ever. ;)

Seriously though, I am looking forward to his instant offense off the bench this year.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Eddie was much more of a pure spot up guy than I suspect Edwards will be, with 89% of his 3s and 63% of his 2s assisted. Carsen can certainly shoot oof the catch, and do it well while moving, but think his percent-assisted numbers will be much lower than House’s which is a good thing. He could have defense-altering gravity with his quick trigger off the dribble. If he makes strides with handling and vision, he’s really got elite offensive potential.
 

lovegtm

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Eddie was much more of a pure spot up guy than I suspect Edwards will be, with 89% of his 3s and 63% of his 2s assisted. Carsen can certainly shoot oof the catch, and do it well while moving, but think his percent-assisted numbers will be much lower than House’s which is a good thing. He could have defense-altering gravity with his quick trigger off the dribble. If he makes strides with handling and vision, he’s really got elite offensive potential.
Agree—abstracting away Carsen’s off the dribble ability and comparing him to catch-and-shoot guys ignores the only thing that makes him unique (or gives him a chance in the NBA).
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The Arsonist gets a shoe deal with Adidas:

I liked this about the motivational spiel of his before each game:
While players throughout the league have taken to scribbling a series of phrases along their shoes in recent years, Edwards has his own pregame writing ritual. After wrapping athletic tape three times around his left wrist, he'll write a series of quick expressions in all caps for motivation:

"HELP MAMA OUT. THANK GOD. HAVE FUN. KILL EVERYTHING"
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Eddie was much more of a pure spot up guy than I suspect Edwards will be, with 89% of his 3s and 63% of his 2s assisted. Carsen can certainly shoot oof the catch, and do it well while moving, but think his percent-assisted numbers will be much lower than House’s which is a good thing. He could have defense-altering gravity with his quick trigger off the dribble. If he makes strides with handling and vision, he’s really got elite offensive potential.
Sounds like a modern day Vinnie Johnson, who killed the Cs at time.
 

DJnVa

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Like this too:

"I can just picture my parents if I'm wearing some crazy colors -- 'You're not producing enough to be wearing crazy colors. Why don't you go do something first?'
 

NomarsFool

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Does every single player get a shoe deal? Never paid any attention to this stuff, but I find it really odd that someone in the mid second round would get a shoe deal. I'm excited about him, sure, but there's got to be >100 players in the NBA with more name recognition.
 

nighthob

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#33 is the third pick of the second round, a mid second round pick would be someone drafted in the 40-50 range. And in Edwards' case I suspect the sneaker deal is more due to expectations that he's going to provide buzz than merely being drafted.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Every player on a roster has a shoe deal as the shoe companies want quantity as well as quality.

Have we seen an amount for Edwards? Back when I was in Shoe Biz, we had Greg Kite and Sam Vincent on deals. Not much money but those two "counted" as much as Bird and McHale
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Does every single player get a shoe deal? Never paid any attention to this stuff, but I find it really odd that someone in the mid second round would get a shoe deal. I'm excited about him, sure, but there's got to be >100 players in the NBA with more name recognition.
Not every player. Spencer Didwiddle didn't get any offers...so he made his own line.

 

benhogan

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Interesting write-up from Liberty Ballers here: https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/8/18657776/carsen-edwards-scouting-report-purdue-boilermakers-philadelphia-76ers-nba-draft.

Article notes the following CE: "At the NBA Draft Combine, Edwards [ranked] seventh in lane agility, third in the shuttle run, and sixth in max bench press among 58 participants."

And also says this about CE's last season:

"Carsen Edwards was basically an elite shooter as a sophomore:
- 40.6% from 3 (6.5 attempts/game, 40% of makes were unassisted)
- 42.4% on 2-point jumpers (74% of makes were unassisted)
- 95th percentile in off-the-dribble jumpers
- 76th percentile on catch-and-shoots"
I just wanted to give this thread and Wade's post a bump...the Liberty Ballers article is Arsen porn with the added touch of the 76ers whiffing.

Also, Cellar-Door notes Carsen's height, weight, wingspan below. I'd like to see him ball hawk the opposing ball handler full court

Edwards/Smart are going to be a blast to watch. Those two paired up with Kanter/Grant & one of our starting wings (JT, JB, GH) will be the difference-maker in many wins this season.


Edwards did the combine twice, both times came in at 6.025" 199 with a pretty nice 6'6" wingspan. Finding comps is actually a little hard for his body.
.
Ty Lawson, Patty Mills are heigh comps, but his wingspan blows them away

2007-8 had an interesting comp... Mike Conley, who is 0.5" taller, but has about 0.5" less wingspan and was 20+ pounds lighter
2005-6 had an Ray Felton, exact same height and weight, but shorter wingspan

So we'll see how he turns out, but maybe some potential to be not bad defensively in that huge wingspan.
 
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lovegtm

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I think having a circus midget as our star 3 years ago burned everyone here. 5-11/6ft with wingspan is just a completely different world from what IT was working with, and there are plenty of examples of guys who have been competent defenders at around Arson’s size.

Waters is the guy who is harder to comp and project on that end wrt size imo.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Dude. Just above your post we see he's 6' 1/4". Totally different
According to the recent, bare feet measures, he is just under 6 feet and a touch shorter than Kemba. I think he'll be fine in the NBA, but a real question for him will be whether he can either defend NBA 2s despite being shorter than they or develop enough PG skills to play the point. He's going to make a lot of money in the NBA regardless, but if he can't play alongside a typical PG or play PG himself, then teams will need have the right kind of roster to minimize his limitations. (For example, this Celtics team has a couple of guys who can run the offense and match up against bigger players on defense (Smart, Hayward). But it would be difficult to play Edwards significant minutes alongside Kemba.
 

BigSoxFan

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According to the recent, bare feet measures, he is just under 6 feet and a touch shorter than Kemba. I think he'll be fine in the NBA, but a real question for him will be whether he can either defend NBA 2s despite being shorter than they or develop enough PG skills to play the point. He's going to make a lot of money in the NBA regardless, but if he can't play alongside a typical PG or play PG himself, then teams will need have the right kind of roster to minimize his limitations. (For example, this Celtics team has a couple of guys who can run the offense and match up against bigger players on defense (Smart, Hayward). But it would be difficult to play Edwards significant minutes alongside Kemba.
Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.
 

Montana Fan

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The one defensive skill I notice every time I watch Edwards is that he plays defense with his feet, works hard and is very quick. Being on the court with Marcus and all his pestering makes them a nice pairing. Especially against backups.
 

lovegtm

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Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.
No need for now--he'll probably play ~15mins/night this year, almost all with Smart. The issue is that if Arson did turn out to be a guy you want to play for 30+ mins a night, it's very hard to find those minutes with Kemba playing PG.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Are there really that many situations where we’d need to play Kemba and Arson together? Seems like that would only be a situational pairing when there is an urgent need for offense. Smart and Arson seems like a nice pairing to me and one that will give defenses fits, especially in transition.
Yes. My point was less about Edwards’ place on the current Celtics and more about his long term NBA upside.

If he’s ultimately an undersized 2 who can only guard 1s, that limits him, as he would have to be in the right situation to maximize his value. (For example, Harden’s Rockets would be a great place for him). If he can be more than that, much different story