Celtics Offseason Primer

Eddie Jurak

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PedroKsBambino

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It may mean that---my best read is that they increased the guarantee, but it is unclear to what number.

Trade-wise, you could imagine increasing it to Murray's contract size (which is about $16 mil) or so to make the trade fit, but depends when they actually execute it I'd imagine. So, I suspect we don't really know.

Edit: Hollinger reported in Athletic today the guarantee was increased to $11 mil to make the trade work, so that may well be the answer. He also said Gallo will "almost certainly be waived"
 

HomeRunBaker

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Why can’t they sign him for multiple guaranteed years at the minimum?
I think Hauser showed enough at the end of the regular season to generate interest around the league to earn a must-year deal above the min. He would be foolish to lock in multiple years at the min…..that would be a benefit to the Celtics as he’d then be cost-controlled at the min for multiple years.
 

ehaz

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View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1542488683466694657?s=20&t=v05p0WHnCllqIKtxv95QGA


Nugget here in Weiss’ latest for The Athletic:

Boston has been exploring Huerter deals for some time now, as he is an obvious fit for what it needs in a shooting guard who can attack and create for others with size. The Celtics really only have one high-movement shooter in the rotation in Jaylen Brown, so adding someone else who can thrive in a lot of the plays they run for Brown would help offensive consistency. He also is a capable pick-and-roll playmaker. The Hawks have been valuing Huerter more than just a first-round pick it appears, so it’s hard to see a deal for Boston that wouldn’t involve a core rotation player. But with the reported Dejounte Murray deal seemingly prompting even further dealing for Atlanta, Boston may be able to work a deal out.
 

benhogan

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some transaction dates to keep in mind:

1. NBA free agency starts at 6pm tonight. Celtics $6.3M MLE in play

2. Fournier $17.1M TPE expires July 18

3. Celtics' extended TL/Smart in the middle of August last year, so Granite ext. watch begins in 6 weeks

4. Bo Cruz $6.9M TPE expires Jan 11

5. Schroder $5.9 TPE expires Feb 10

NBA trade deadline March 25, 2023

https://notradeclause.com/nba-calendar/
 

Cellar-Door

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I think Huerter is an interesting piece, I wouldn't give up more than a protected 1st for him though.
His offense has been improving in a pretty consistent manner, D is up and down, but it's hard to judge a guy who is both young and on a team with mostly below average or worse defenders, including probably the worst defender in the league.

I would guess he'd be clearly our worst defender, but that's not saying much, and I think he's a solid offense fit.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
some transaction dates to keep in mind:

1. NBA free agency starts at 6pm tonight. Celtics $6.3M MLE in play

2. Fournier $17.1M TPE expires July 18

3. Celtics' extended TL/Smart in the middle of August last year, so Granite ext. watch begins in 6 weeks

4. Bo Cruz $6.9M TPE expires Jan 11

5. Schroder $5.9 TPE expires Feb 10

NBA trade deadline March 25, 2023

https://notradeclause.com/nba-calendar/
Well done!!
 

mcpickl

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Why can’t they sign him for multiple guaranteed years at the minimum?
can only do a two year deal at the minimum without using an exception.

if that’s what the plan was, they could’ve just extended the contract he was on by one more year.

could also do that with cap space, but Celtics don’t have that.

if that rumor is correct, I’d rule out any ideas of using the full taxpayer MLE on anyone.
 
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JCizzle

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some transaction dates to keep in mind:

1. NBA free agency starts at 6pm tonight. Celtics $6.3M MLE in play

2. Fournier $17.1M TPE expires July 18

3. Celtics' extended TL/Smart in the middle of August last year, so Granite ext. watch begins in 6 weeks

4. Bo Cruz $6.9M TPE expires Jan 11

5. Schroder $5.9 TPE expires Feb 10

NBA trade deadline March 25, 2023

https://notradeclause.com/nba-calendar/
That movie was surprisingly decent!
 

benhogan

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Well done!!
Yea my kid loved the movie, it was a little too on the nose for me but the movie biz likes happy endings.

Liking this 24yr old German center Isaiah Hartenstein on the MLE more and more. Good rim protector, decent on the perimeter for a 5. Efficient offensively. Young enough to continue to improve with minutes. See him replacing Theis, who could be moved in a bigger deal during the season

A poor man's TimeLord, he may even be able to develop a 3pt shot

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html
 

DGreenwood

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this is interesting.

I think for a longer deal, he'd have to be taking a chunk out of the MLE.
Houser is a RFA, not a UFA which means the Celtics made him a qualifying offer. Don't teams that are over the cap have options for signing their own RFAs without using exceptions like the MLE? For example, Houser could accept the qualifying offer. I thought they even had the right to negotiate a contract with him without the necessary cap space (but maybe this requires Bird rights)?
 
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Jeff Van GULLY

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I'm all aboard the TJ Warren train. He's a risk but I'm not sure there is a better fit in terms of needed skills out there, he has the size and length the Celtics want and he has the highest upside, if healthy.
 

mcpickl

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Houser is a RFA, not a UFA which means the Celtics made him a qualifying offer. Don't teams that are over the cap have options for signing their own RFAs without using exceptions like the MLE? For example, Houser could accept the qualifying offer. I thought they even had the right to negotiate a contract with him without the necessary cap space (with some restrictions)?
he only has one year of service time. So they don’t have Bird rights on him like you would an RFA at the end of a rookie deal.

if they want to go more than two years on him, they have to use an exception. The only one they have is the taxpayer MLE.

EDIT: I’m not actually 100% sure he doesn’t qualify as a non-Bird free agent. I don’t think he does, but I’m trying to suss out the word “veteran” in that. I don’t think Hauser qualified as a veteran, but fired veteran just mean not a rookie? I’m not sure
 
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DGreenwood

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he only has one year of service time. So they don’t have Bird rights on him like you would an RFA at the end of a rookie deal.

if they want to go more than two years on him, they have to use an exception. The only one they have is the taxpayer MLE.
Thanks. Then I'd expect them to try to sign him to a two year deal. I can't see them eating into the MLE for this. I'd think they'd have to have some sort of verbal agreement that this is what both sides want to do, otherwise they'd have just kept him at the 1.6 million, right?
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm all aboard the TJ Warren train. He's a risk but I'm not sure there is a better fit in terms of needed skills out there, he has the size and length the Celtics want and he has the highest upside, if healthy.
It's possible he's healthy but will never return to prior form. If he returns to prior form, he should be getting close to 30-35 minutes and Grant doesn't have a job. Opens Grant up for a trade to get a PG.

Depending on what you read, Warren has a 6'9 or 6'10.25 wingspan and a standing reach of 8'8.5.

I'll go by the NBA site. Oddly enough, it was Celtics scouts doing the report. https://www.nba.com/celtics/draft/profile-warren He still isn't much of a passer. They were wrong about his rebounding too, or he's just taken one for the team.

I'd love him if I knew he were healthy, but if we knew that, he probably wouldn't be available anyway.
 

mcpickl

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Thanks. Then I'd expect them to try to sign him to a two year deal. I can't see them eating into the MLE for this. I'd think they'd have to have some sort of verbal agreement that this is what both sides want to do, otherwise they'd have just kept him at the 1.6 million, right?
i edited above, I’m not 100% sure he doesn’t qualify as a non-Bird free agent. If he does, they could sign him that way for up to four years.

i think their goal is to sign him longer than two years, mostly non guaranteed, to give him some money up front, but if he becomes a player they benefit from having him signed cheap for multiple years.

I’m trying to figure out if he qualified as a “veteran” by just having a contact for half the season
 

128

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FWIW, Hollinger posted this today:

  • If Boston can stomach the luxury tax hit, a trade of Atlanta’s Kevin Huerter to the Celtics would make a lot of sense for both sides. Huerter would give Boston another big wing off the bench who can score, improving their bench, and he’s on the same timeline as Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Atlanta would duck the luxury tax and create some wiggle room to address its defensive weaknesses. This deal can work because the Celtics have a $17.1 million trade exception that can take in Huerter’s $14.5 million salary.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Huerter feels like the offensive yin to Derrick White's defensive yang. Similar salary, both fit the roster and timeline in different ways. I am intrigued.
 

Cellar-Door

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So we should be prepared to see some Chef Brad Stevens moves tonight or nah?
Maybe, but also the Celtics might be a team that lurks for a while.... waits to see whose price comes down of their TPE targets (Warren, Huerter, etc), waits to see who gets cut/bought out (Gallo), and waits to see who doesn't get a full MLE for a team they want who would settle for a tax-MLE (Hartenstein, Bamba, etc) also scope whether they see a deal to jump in and maybe swap Theis out for a cheaper C to make using more of the TPE palatable to Wyc. (If say you see that Hartenstein or Bamba is willing to take your tax-MLE, and teams are looking for salary in a multi-way deal, you might swap out Theis for a cheaper wing and save $3M in salary, but more like 10M in actual money).
 

tbb345

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Huerter feels like the offensive yin to Derrick White's defensive yang. Similar salary, both fit the roster and timeline in different ways. I am intrigued.
I think Huerter for a pretty heavily protected first that conveys into multiple second rounders makes a lot of sense for both teams
 

mcpickl

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So we should be prepared to see some Chef Brad Stevens moves tonight or nah?
I’d expect if they use the TPE, we’ll hear about that tonight. I’d guess any free agent signings would be after the dust settles in a few days when money runs out around the league
 

lexrageorge

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Usually MLE and especially taxpayer MLE moves don't happen until at least a couple of days into free agency.
 

DGreenwood

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Maybe, but also the Celtics might be a team that lurks for a while.... waits to see whose price comes down of their TPE targets (Warren, Huerter, etc), waits to see who gets cut/bought out (Gallo), and waits to see who doesn't get a full MLE for a team they want who would settle for a tax-MLE (Hartenstein, Bamba, etc) also scope whether they see a deal to jump in and maybe swap Theis out for a cheaper C to make using more of the TPE palatable to Wyc. (If say you see that Hartenstein or Bamba is willing to take your tax-MLE, and teams are looking for salary in a multi-way deal, you might swap out Theis for a cheaper wing and save $3M in salary, but more like 10M in actual money).
Isn't Warren an MLE target, not a TPE target? I believe he's an UFA.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think Huerter for a pretty heavily protected first that conveys into multiple second rounders makes a lot of sense for both teams
I would think Atlanta could do better but if they are just trying to clear salary without getting any in return, C's have to be a front runner.
 

saintnick912

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What's the logic on not allowing a TPE to be used in acquiring a FA player?

edit: this may have made more sense to ask in the PE thread, please move if needed
 

DGreenwood

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Sounds like they are waiting on Gallonari and he won't get bought out for a week or so. I would not expect much.
If Gallonari is bought out he'd then be a MLE target, right? They aren't going to sit on the TPE and pass up opportunities while they wait on the MLE situation to clarify.
 

Cellar-Door

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What's the logic on not allowing a TPE to be used in acquiring a FA player?
It isn't cap space. Also, it is basically just a way for teams to string trades non-simultaneously. Why would cap space teams ever want teams miles over the tax to be able to steal FAs from them? Basically you'd ensure that the top few teams just always got every good player.
 

Cellar-Door

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If Gallonari is bought out he'd then be a MLE target, right? They aren't going to sit on the TPE and pass up opportunities while they wait on the MLE situation to clarify.
yes, or the minimum depending.
Problem is that who they can get with the MLE likely impacts the TPE. If you get Gallo, a bunch of TPE targets are no longer as attractive since they are duplicative.

Edit- though I would say that I doubt you need to actually wait until the 6th, Gallo's team will know whether he's getting bought out or cut before then and have permission to talk to teams, it's part of what he gets for doing everyone involved a favor and pushing his guarantee date back.
 

JCizzle

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FWIW, Hollinger posted this today:

  • If Boston can stomach the luxury tax hit, a trade of Atlanta’s Kevin Huerter to the Celtics would make a lot of sense for both sides. Huerter would give Boston another big wing off the bench who can score, improving their bench, and he’s on the same timeline as Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Atlanta would duck the luxury tax and create some wiggle room to address its defensive weaknesses. This deal can work because the Celtics have a $17.1 million trade exception that can take in Huerter’s $14.5 million salary.
Big fan of this move and ownership should absolutely be willing to stomach the tax hit.
 

benhogan

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Maybe, but also the Celtics might be a team that lurks for a while.... waits to see whose price comes down of their TPE targets (Warren, Huerter, etc), waits to see who gets cut/bought out (Gallo), and waits to see who doesn't get a full MLE for a team they want who would settle for a tax-MLE (Hartenstein, Bamba, etc) also scope whether they see a deal to jump in and maybe swap Theis out for a cheaper C to make using more of the TPE palatable to Wyc. (If say you see that Hartenstein or Bamba is willing to take your tax-MLE, and teams are looking for salary in a multi-way deal, you might swap out Theis for a cheaper wing and save $3M in salary, but more like 10M in actual money).
Yep, this sums it up and exactly how I'd like them to use Theis (replace him with the young German Hartenstein)

Lurking was a clever strategy of Brad's last summer when Schroder lost the game of FA musical chairs, and Brad used the MLE. Well under his perceived market rate.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Big fan of this move and ownership should absolutely be willing to stomach the tax hit.
One motivator for Hawks I hadn't realized, from Hollinger's twitter: apparently if they trade someone they can get under tax to use ful MLE rather than taxpayer MLE. For the right signing, that makes it quite useful to dump (say) Huerter---because effectively you're adding the MLE player too who otherwise you wouldn't get (and losing as well the TMLE player) Haven't verified their cap situation on that, but believable.

Hawks linked to PJ Tucker, and while he'd be a great vet fit he seems likely to go to a ring-chasing situation rather than Hawks. But certainly can imagine them being a contender for other guys who fit MLE much more realistically than TMLE
 

Cesar Crespo

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Lurking was a clever strategy of Brad's last summer when Schroder lost the game of FA musical chairs, and Brad used the MLE. Well under his perceived market rate.
It seemed clever, anyway. I'm not sure DS actually helped the team at all and he was traded away on top of that. I'd rather the C's actually add someone who will still be playing for them come playoff time then get what is perceived to be a bargain but isn't.
 

Cellar-Door

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It seemed clever, anyway. I'm not sure DS actually helped the team at all and he was traded away on top of that. I'd rather the C's actually add someone who will still be playing for them come playoff time then get what is perceived to be a bargain but isn't.
I think he was a guy who fit a need, that later became not a need. They had no clear PG, especially when Smart was hurt. A healthy Smart and acquiring White changed the needs. Also he was a placeholder salary used to get the backup big (which we can debate Theis' value going forward, but they needed someone in that role).
 

JCizzle

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It seemed clever, anyway. I'm not sure DS actually helped the team at all and he was traded away on top of that. I'd rather the C's actually add someone who will still be playing for them come playoff time then get what is perceived to be a bargain but isn't.
Yeah, it basically resulted in reuniting with Theis on a $9M AAV. Meh. This is the year they need to be identifying true value like GSW did with Otto Porter, for example. Brad needs to sell the shit out of this opportunity to veterans.
 

benhogan

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It seemed clever, anyway. I'm not sure DS actually helped the team at all and he was traded away on top of that. I'd rather the C's actually add someone who will still be playing for them come playoff time then get what is perceived to be a bargain but isn't.
agree that post-facto DS was pretty meh

It did get us the TL injury insurance, Theis, which was needed at the end of the season/Nets series

wonder where Dennis will land this off-season/price?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, it basically resulted in reuniting with Theis on a $9M AAV. Meh. This is the year they need to be identifying true value like GSW did with Otto Porter, for example. Brad needs to sell the shit out of this opportunity to veterans.
If they can add one of Huerter, Bamba or Warren this offseason, I'll be happy. I think all 3 fit a need and can provide 25-35 minutes. That would give the C's a very good 8 man rotation and PP. If they do add one of those 3, I'd guess other FA would take Boston off their lists as there is no room for playing time. I could also see Boston trading GW for a distributor if they landed one of the 3.

Hopefully clearing cap space and not taking any salary back is the hot commodity because it'll put the C's in good shape to land someone like Huerter.

In my pipe dream scenario, the C's get Huerter and Jalen Smith. Maybe Smith would buy into sacrificing minutes in 22/23 to replace Al in 23/24.

The one downside with Huerter is that despite being 6'7, he only has a 6'7.5 wingspan and 8'5.5 standing reach. He's not actually that long.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you want him I’d add the second year. I’m not sure he’s my first choice, but no doubt they’ve assessed the market
 

Cellar-Door

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If you want him I’d add the second year. I’m not sure he’s my first choice, but no doubt they’ve assessed the market
given his age and trajectory, he's a gamble on some of the last year plus being a bad situation... but at 2 years it becomes potentially a hindrance if you're wrong. I think they'll give him a take it or leave it, knowing if he says no they can pivot to the TPE for their wing
 

JCizzle

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If they can add one of Huerter, Bamba or Warren this offseason, I'll be happy. I think all 3 fit a need and can provide 25-35 minutes. That would give the C's a very good 8 man rotation and PP. If they do add one of those 3, I'd guess other FA would take Boston off their lists as there is no room for playing time. I could also see Boston trading GW for a distributor if they landed one of the 3.

Hopefully clearing cap space and not taking any salary back is the hot commodity because it'll put the C's in good shape to land someone like Huerter.

In my pipe dream scenario, the C's get Huerter and Jalen Smith. Maybe Smith would buy into sacrificing minutes in 22/23 to replace Al in 23/24.

The one downside with Huerter is that despite being 6'7, he only has a 6'7.5 wingspan and 8'5.5 standing reach. He's not actually that long.
Jalen Smith would be nice, especially with some of the other backup bigs off the market early tonight.
 

nighthob

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Too bad Lu Dort learned how to shoot, would have been a great 3rd wing. Now he's way too expensive and rightfully so.
He was someone that I’d tagged as a UDFA target out of college. If only Danny hadn’t blocked me on Twitter.
 

PedroKsBambino

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So, guys still out there who we've talked about:

TJ Warren
Divencenzo
Bruce Brown
GPII (though hvae to think back to Warriors)
Oubre
Otto Porter
Rubio
Delon Wright (now gone, 2/$16....seems like a decent deal)
Jalen Smith

Plus, Gallo.