Celtics Offseason Primer

Eddie Jurak

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That’s pretty interesting, suggests that they have other plans for the TPE or that they aren’t going to use the TPE.

But here is a thought that would apply to Burks for TPE and also to Warren as an MLE target. These guys are coming off foot injuries/surgery.

But the Celtics may want someone who will be available from day 1 of the regular season for the purpose of taking wear and tear off of the starters via reduced minutes/maintenance days/etc.
 

Devizier

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I do wonder if the Celtics would put the requisite package for Dejounte Murray. Obviously a lot of competition there.
 

Euclis20

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I do wonder if the Celtics would put the requisite package for Dejounte Murray. Obviously a lot of competition there.
I like Murray, but I don't know that he'd be quite worth the price for the Celtics. Assuming they don't give up Smart, that would mean that both of their guards shoot 33% from 3 on a good day, and their center doesn't shoot outside of the paint at all. That's seems not ideal to pair with Tatum/Brown. If Boston is looking to go all in on someone with 3+ first round picks, I'd hope it would be for an above average shooter.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I like that Celts are being rumored to be interested in guys who can score off the bench--Gallo, Warren, Collins (who isn't really a bench player), etc. To me that's the biggest gap, and I do hope they see and fill it.

Oladipo supposedly may be a casualty of Herro's extension--though not a perfect fit for above criteria I really like his upside if he'll take Tax MLE. He fits defensively, between he and Smart you can guard a lot of 3s (so I don't see the guard overload some may), and while not a great shooter he's been ok to good much of his career while also providing some scoring punch.
 

Cellar-Door

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tbb345

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https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/06/what-john-wall-joining-clippers-means-for-celtics-trade-exception-and-free-agency-options.html

Wall’s signing with the Clippers is going to potentially open up some trade (for Kennard or Powell) free agency options (for Batum) for the Cs.
Reports are that Batum is re-signing for 3 yrs around $30M.

There were also reports yesterday that the Clips were actually looking to add salary into their own TPE (the rumor was Nerlens Noel). Makes me think that Ballmer truly doesn’t care about any tax ramifications and therefore LAC will keep Powell and Kennard
 

ehaz

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I like that Celts are being rumored to be interested in guys who can score off the bench--Gallo, Warren, Collins (who isn't really a bench player), etc. To me that's the biggest gap, and I do hope they see and fill it.

Oladipo supposedly may be a casualty of Herro's extension--though not a perfect fit for above criteria I really like his upside if he'll take Tax MLE. He fits defensively, between he and Smart you can guard a lot of 3s (so I don't see the guard overload some may), and while not a great shooter he's been ok to good much of his career while also providing some scoring punch.
Kind of worried they’ll sign Gallo and then Ime will refuse to play him.
 

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PedroKsBambino

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Kind of worried they’ll sign Gallo and then Ime will refuse to play him.
Yup---that is a risk.

My guess is that Ime will operate differently with a veteran on that point; part of his motivation with PP was (I suspect) to try and motivate him to play harder and differently on defense. Gallo is what he is and it isn't at all likely to change, which Ime likely knows. But that's just a guess.

As an aside, Will Barton is now another possible TPE option. I have no idea what Wiz' plan is overall so whether that is a useful salary to dump for them or not is hard to figure....and certainly possible they want Morris and are happy to deal Barton and let Rui and others play those minutes.
 

Jimbodandy

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I wouldn't worry about Brad signing a guy that Ime won't play. Maybe in a few years when politics happen and absolute power corrupts and all that. Right now, I'm pretty sure that Brad wouldn't want to put either himself or Ime in the situation where we burned assets (even the TPE is an asset) to get a guy that ends up sitting for philosophical differences. It would be a staggering miss this early into their relationship IMO.
 

Cellar-Door

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Gallo is interesting, he was the best player of the guys we've heard discussed (Gallo, Warren, Burks) but he tanked hard the last 2 years. Question is, was that age or just Atlanta fit?
Warren is the youngest by a bunch, but he's always hurt.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I wouldn't worry about Brad signing a guy that Ime won't play. Maybe in a few years when politics happen and absolute power corrupts and all that. Right now, I'm pretty sure that Brad wouldn't want to put either himself or Ime in the situation where we burned assets (even the TPE is an asset) to get a guy that ends up sitting for philosophical differences. It would be a staggering miss this early into their relationship IMO.
Sincerely,

Enes Kanter
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Sincerely,

Enes Kanter
My response to this would be that Brad's big moves (Horford, White) were directly targeted to fit Ime's scheme while only the little cheap moves around the edges (Kanter, Schroder) were more likely to be square pegs. And it's no coincidence that the square pegs were shipped out. It looks to me like Ime and Brad are mostly on the same page when it comes to player acquisition.
 

kazuneko

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Gallo is interesting, he was the best player of the guys we've heard discussed (Gallo, Warren, Burks) but he tanked hard the last 2 years. Question is, was that age or just Atlanta fit?
Warren is the youngest by a bunch, but he's always hurt.
Yeah, Warren is an interesting case, and if the Cs medical team thinks he’s got a good chance of a full comeback (he apparently was cleared to play 14 games before the end of the season but chose to sit since there was nothing left to play for) he could be a huge pickup for the MLE. He’s 6ft 8’ and strong, with two straight years of 40%+ shooting from 3pt range. Defensively he showed a lot of improvement in his years in Indiana, as he put up some solid defensive numbers despite this having been a concern in his time in Phoenix. If Warren can be who he was when he was last playing he’d be a big help for a Cs bench that could really use his combination of shooting/scoring and size from the wing position.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My response to this would be that Brad's big moves (Horford, White) were directly targeted to fit Ime's scheme while only the little cheap moves around the edges (Kanter, Schroder) were more likely to be square pegs. And it's no coincidence that the square pegs were shipped out. It looks to me like Ime and Brad are mostly on the same page when it comes to player acquisition.
I agree. I was only being witty (or failing miserably at it).

Schroder was a no-brainer flier for what we needed (and still kinda need) on an expiring. Kanter was needed for depth behind Horford and TL once Theis was traded and their are a small number of humans on this planet capable of competing at the NBA level at this position unlike say being a fungible wing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah, Warren is an interesting case, and if the Cs medical team thinks he’s got a good chance of a full comeback (he apparently was cleared to play 14 games before the end of the season but chose to sit since there was nothing left to play for) he could be a huge pickup for the MLE. He’s 6ft 8’ and strong, with two straight years of 40%+ shooting from 3pt range. Defensively he showed a lot of improvement in his years in Indiana, as he put up some solid defensive numbers despite this having been a concern in his time in Phoenix. If Warren can be who he was when he was last playing he’d be a big help for a Cs bench that could really use his combination of shooting/scoring and size from the wing position.
Warren is exactly the sort of player they need to kick the tires on. He could be a street clothes all star which is why he is available on the cheap but if he is healthy, he offers significant upside and really fixes a few things for this team at once. They get another sub for Tatum or Brown and they get more shooting...if TJ can stay on the court of course.
 

BigSoxFan

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Warren is exactly the sort of player they need to kick the tires on. He could be a street clothes all star which is why he is available on the cheap but if he is healthy, he offers significant upside and really fixes a few things for this team at once. They get another sub for Tatum or Brown and they get more shooting...if TJ can stay on the court of course.
Sign me up. I take that injury risk every time. He has stretches where he’s unstoppable.
 

Jimbodandy

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Sincerely,

Enes Kanter
LOL. Yeah MLE guys maybe. I don't fault Ime for not playing Theis and Kanter except for when they were needed, which is hopefully not very often. He wouldn't spend meaningful assets for a guy that they weren't aligned on.

edit: Remember the days that Al was nursing something and TL was dinged and we were a mouse fart away from Tacko getting 30 minutes against the Embiids of the world?
 

sezwho

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Oladipo supposedly may be a casualty of Herro's extension--though not a perfect fit for above criteria I really like his upside if he'll take Tax MLE. He fits defensively, between he and Smart you can guard a lot of 3s (so I don't see the guard overload some may), and while not a great shooter he's been ok to good much of his career while also providing some scoring punch.
Sounds good: veteran two way player that doesn’t make Ime compromise his defensive values and could potentially grab the reigns for a couple games during the season or a couple minutes against a tough playoff opponent. Maybe I’m clinging to memories of Oladipos past…

I also agree with those who suggest the new addition(s) should be available from jump. The Cs starters should be eased in to whatever degree possible: Brad said get rest.
 

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I see no way it happens, SA tendered him, and the Celtics are way over the cap, the Spurs are 100% not tendering a guy for $6.2M if they aren't willing to match $6.5.
And a S&T hard caps the Celtics so that avenue doesn’t work either, right? You’re probably right.
 

PRabbit

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Orlando declined Mo Bamba's QO earlier today, I'd be all over that for the MLE. 10/8/1.6 blocks and 38% from 3?
 

Cellar-Door

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Orlando declined Mo Bamba's QO earlier today, I'd be all over that for the MLE. 10/8/1.6 blocks and 38% from 3?
Speculation has been that he's looking at multiple full MLE offers, and a bigger role than we could offer
 

PedroKsBambino

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Orlando has lots of reasons to keep him and isn't....they are far from perfect but that certainly speaks to something, doesn't it?
 

Cellar-Door

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Orlando has lots of reasons to keep him and isn't....they are far from perfect but that certainly speaks to something, doesn't it?
Not really, they have a ton of bigs including probably their best player, and the guy they just drafted #1 overall and Bamba's QO is over $10M.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think Bamba is pretty different than their bigs, though they have a lot of 4s. But he's a 5 and by far their best rim protector. Their roster construction is a total mess, but I disagree the reason they are letting him go is that---and don't imagine you actually believe that either. It's about the player. If you believe in him, at a minimum you try to preserve the asset.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think Bamba is pretty different than their bigs, though they have a lot of 4s. But he's a 5 and by far their best rim protector. Their roster construction is a total mess, but I disagree the reason they are letting him go is that---and don't imagine you actually believe that either. It's about the player. If you believe in him, at a minimum you try to preserve the asset.
I think it's that they both want to move on, and don't see him as a guy they want to pay considering they already have a frontcourt of Banchero and Carter locked up, and are paying big money to Isaac. I think they'd rather have the cap space, and maybe sign more of a pure backup. Also, they don't want the big cap hold I would guess. (also one rumor is they might already have a deal lined up for someone cheaper)

Also, if we're being honest... Orlando not wanting him tells me little about him, the Magic have been bad at everything involved in this for a long time. The list of teams interested in him is one with a lot more success at talent evaluation than Orlando.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Orlando's bias has been for long guys pretty much exactly like Bamba---that's why their roster construction is a mess. So I am not sure the track record goes where you want it to, looking a little beyond "they had a bad record" (which of course they regularly have).

Bottom line remains that a team where they are in the building cycle doesn't let a 23/24 year old with some performance and some upside go unless you really don't believe in him---can you name another example of that? I think it's pretty clear they just don't like the player. They may be wrong, of course, but they also have a lot more data than anyone else about him so I think that's worth considering. You can, of course, think it's not.

To be clear, his shooting improvement last year (both threes and ft) certainly makes him interesting, and we'll see what the cost actually ends up being---I'd take the shot at tax MLE, but suspect he'll get a lot more than that. I just wonder what the story is there...
 

Cellar-Door

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Orlando's bias has been for long guys pretty much exactly like Bamba---that's why their roster construction is a mess. So I am not sure the track record goes where you want it to, looking a little beyond "they had a bad record" (which of course they regularly have).

Bottom line remains that a team where they are in the building cycle doesn't let a 23/24 year old with some performance and some upside go unless you really don't believe in him---can you name another example of that? I think it's pretty clear they just don't like the player. They may be wrong, of course, but they also have a lot more data than anyone else about him so I think that's worth considering. You can, of course, think it's not.

To be clear, his shooting improvement last year (both threes and ft) certainly makes him interesting, and we'll see what the cost actually ends up being---I'd take the shot at tax MLE, but suspect he'll get a lot more than that. I just wonder what the story is there...
I don't want him for the Celtics, he'll cost too much, and you'd have to find a taker for Theis.
I just fundamentally don't buy the idea of "Well team he was on let him go he must not have" especially when it's a team with a long history of being bad at developing talent or putting together good teams. Teams make bad decisions all the time on players, especially when it comes with decent money attached. Even good teams miss on guys, or let them go and see them break out elsewhere.

Usually teams dump guys in a trade (Bagley, Smith, etc.) if they don't believe in them, they probably could have gotten something for him in February. Not giving the QO is usually more about cap than the player. He has a market, if it were about the player, they'd just give him the QO and then S&T him.
 

Smokey Joe

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I would be perfectly happy to offer Mo Bamba a 2 year minimum contract with a team option. Otherwise, pass.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I've never been a fan of Bamba, back to the draft. Just noting it's an unusual choice to let him go over what amounts to a couple million dollars. Unless, they simply don't believe in the player at all.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't get the Bamba love at all. Soft player, replacement level talent. Hope we can do better with the MLE.
Isn’t replacement level talent around the value of an MLE-level Free Agent? These have historically been second unit guys bc they have flaws in their overall game.


I would be perfectly happy to offer Mo Bamba a 2 year minimum contract with a team option. Otherwise, pass.
The starting convo for Bamba would be full MLE as his agent manuveurs for something more. He’s going to have a ton of suitors with the direction of the game today as a 24-yr old, shot-blocking 5 with 3-pt range.
 

BigSoxFan

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Bamba showed some nice growth last year. Certainly not the player he was drafted to be but he’s a 7 footer who’s athletic, rebounds, blocks shots, and made 38% of his 3’s last year.

Would love to see a guy like this hooked up to the Udoka defense machine to see what he could do.
 

Smokey Joe

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Isn’t replacement level talent around the value of an MLE-level Free Agent? These have historically been second unit guys bc they have flaws in their overall game.



The starting convo for Bamba would be full MLE as his agent manuveurs for something more. He’s going to have a ton of suitors with the direction of the game today as a 24-yr old, shot-blocking 5 with 3-pt range.
I should have included more content in that post. A cursory look at his stats shows three years of cruise control and then a sudden improvement in his fourth year. One could think that this was a young player developing finally, Or… a young player waking up to the realities of NBA life and realizing that he has to make more of an effort, or… someone who will make an effort in a contract year. The fact that the Magic are washing their hands of him is a bad bad sign. No matter what you might think of the their management, they should be able to get some value for him.
I want some other team to take a chance on him, not the Celtics.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I should have included more content in that post. A cursory look at his stats shows three years of cruise control and then a sudden improvement in his fourth year. One could think that this was a young player developing finally, Or… a young player waking up to the realities of NBA life and realizing that he has to make more of an effort, or… someone who will make an effort in a contract year.
I think there is a real simple and logical reason for this timeline of growth for Bamba. Each of his first 3 seasons were cut short by significant lower body injuries, which kept him from workout out in the summers, in two of them while Covid knocked him out so bad that the Magic sent him home from the bubble for post-Covid testing which prevented him from participating in another offseason program. Last summer was the FIRST normal offseason workout program that Bamba has had as a professional and he came to camp with marked improvements in his game including a deadly 3-pt shot. Personally I think the MLE is going to be a steal for some team.
 

TripleOT

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Bamba would be a great get for the Celtics at the taxpayer MLE. The culture is much better in Boston than in Orlando, obviously. An athletic stretch 5 is the perfect third big to add to AL and TimeLord. He’s probably going to get a non-taxpayer MLE deal, but if he wants a one year deal to make a run at a title, I’m in. I don’t know if he’s close with Tatum, but he is another Drew Hanlen client.
 

Jimbodandy

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Isn’t replacement level talent around the value of an MLE-level Free Agent? These have historically been second unit guys bc they have flaws in their overall game.

The starting convo for Bamba would be full MLE as his agent manuveurs for something more. He’s going to have a ton of suitors with the direction of the game today as a 24-yr old, shot-blocking 5 with 3-pt range.
Yes, replacement level is MLE. I'm just hoping that we can do better in a buyer's market.

Part of that is not liking the player. BSF wrote about wondering what "he could do" in Ime's system. I see a guy who floated through three years in the league and put in a modicum of effort in his contract year. I don't know what he could do here, but I don't think there is a lot that he would do. I'm basing this on watching him like ten times, so maybe someone has insight that he has some serious work ethic and has been a victim of circumstance so far. Orlando sucks, so there's that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yes, replacement level is MLE. I'm just hoping that we can do better in a buyer's market.

Part of that is not liking the player. BSF wrote about wondering what "he could do" in Ime's system. I see a guy who floated through three years in the league and put in a modicum of effort in his contract year. I don't know what he could do here, but I don't think there is a lot that he would do. I'm basing this on watching him like ten times, so maybe someone has insight that he has some serious work ethic and has been a victim of circumstance so far. Orlando sucks, so there's that.
I know you posted about the same time I did but I posted above how Bamba’s injury history has prevented him from participating in offseason workouts……until the past summer. Maybe Orlando knows something but we’ve seen a laundry list of teams dump young players only to watch them thrive later in their careers. Billups and Iso Joe were two right here with us on top of countless others so I always tread carefully with those “they must know something” assumptions especially when “we know” that the organization has made some awful choices.
 

Jimbodandy

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I know you posted about the same time I did but I posted above how Bamba’s injury history has prevented him from participating in offseason workouts……until the past summer. Maybe Orlando knows something but we’ve seen a laundry list of teams dump young players only to watch them thrive later in their careers. Billups and Iso Joe were two right here with us on top of countless others so I always tread carefully with those “they must know something” assumptions especially when “we know” that the organization has made some awful choices.
Yeah FWIW, I'm not making any judgments based on Orlando's acumen. If people think that his last year numbers are real, I can see the optimism. When I've watched him, I've seen a showboater.