Celtics Offseason Primer

lovegtm

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I don't think you need a long term Horford replacement. I think you have gone ultra big in part because of Al's rare combination of skills
Long term the answer is probably more Tatum at 4 and getting 2 of Brogdon/Smart/White on the floor at almost all times
Agree. Also, given TL's injury history, they need a high quality backup C, ie what Theis was supposed to be in theory.

I don't think Collins is a C, and playing Horford fewer minutes lets you sort of make him that backup with higher probability of health. Still would like to add someone there.
 

amfox1

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According to a league source, the Celtics are expected to agree to a multi-year deal with Sam Hauser when the dust clears in the coming days, too. Boston made that route pretty clear when it declined Hauser's team option for next year.
 

bsj

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According to a league source, the Celtics are expected to agree to a multi-year deal with Sam Hauser when the dust clears in the coming days, too. Boston made that route pretty clear when it declined Hauser's team option for next year.
I kept waiting all season for Hauser to do something. I guess I’ll be waiting more
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Hauser is your shot at a one-skill wonder. Fine guy to keep around on the bench and see if he can end up a Robinson/Harris type.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The expectation for this offseason was acquiring two legit rotation players to add to the core. They’ve done it, frankly more optimally than I expected (Brogdon is better than Huerter, etc).

Smart/Brogdon/White
Jaylen/Brogdon/White
Tatum/Gallo
Horford/Grant
TL/(Bryant, potentially)

That’s a really deep and talented top 9 locked in. A TPE acquisition would have to be a really good fit and not upset the balance of anything. We’re running low on guaranteed minutes, especially for a (potentially) $17 million player.

I am sure there’s still a chance they use a portion of it. We’ll see. I do understand the temptation to go wild but it has to be the right fit.
 

DGreenwood

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Straight BS if true. Pay money to win now.
It's getting close to the point where it's tough to identify a $17 million per year player, that we could realistically trade for, who could crack our top 8 rotation (ok, top 7 maybe).

edit: I like the way JZ said it better.
 

luckiestman

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The expectation for this offseason was acquiring two legit rotation players to add to the core. They’ve done it, frankly more optimally than I expected (Brogdon is better than Huerter, etc).

Smart/Brogdon/White
Jaylen/Brogdon/White
Tatum/Gallo
Horford/Grant
TL/(Bryant, potentially)

That’s a really deep and talented top 9 locked in. A TPE acquisition would have to be a really good fit and not upset the balance of anything. We’re running low on guaranteed minutes, especially for a (potentially) $17 million player.

I am sure there’s still a chance they use a portion of it. We’ll see. I do understand the temptation to go wild but it has to be the right fit.
This makes sense but the way these leaks are being framed is strange to me.
 

luckiestman

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Brogdon put them way into the tax. They are paying.
If there is no further way to improve the team, that’s fine. I don’t want to hear anything about the tax. The Celtics are worth a lot more than Wyc paid for them, like many times more. Championships will increase that value further.
 

ifmanis5

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Eddie Jurak

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Straight BS if true. Pay money to win now.
The did - Brogdon is owed 3 years, $67 million or some such. They shipped out about $38 million and took back $67 million. Used their draft capital. They could take on an up to $17 million player that some team wants to get rid of for free, but you aren't exactly getting a great player if someone is looking to dump him.

Let's say Miami wants out from Duncan Robinson's money and would give him for free. Who sits so that he can play on Ime's defense focused team? Is it necessarily a good idea to help a division rival shed payroll?

I think they are done and that is OK. The move they made is bigger than anything they could have done with the TPE.
 

benhogan

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Sure they probably want to move on from Collins, but ATL just traded for Murray. Doubt they are trading for another guard. Plus Collins is worth more than that package.
yea .0001% chance of happening

Collins + Okongwu + Hunter + Jalen Johnson for Durant works in the trade machine. If the Nets want a new beginning
 
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Jakarta

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Ideally they would get another big who is playable so that TL and Al can be load managed throughout the year. Thomas Bryant is probably the best they could realistically get on the minimum. Someone like Poertl or Favors would fit in the TPE and provide regular season minutes and insurance but that gets a bit expensive for that quality of player when factoring in the tax impact. I don’t imagine those guys have any market so those tanking teams might be happy to just shed the salary.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Ideally they would get another big who is playable so that TL and Al can be load managed throughout the year. Thomas Bryant is probably the best they could realistically get on the minimum. Someone like Poertl or Favors would fit in the TPE and provide regular season minutes and insurance but that gets a bit expensive for that quality of player when factoring in the tax impact. I don’t imagine those guys have any market so those tanking teams might be happy to just shed the salary.
They do have the Green Kornet back! :)
 

lexrageorge

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The TPE is a nice tool to use if you need to use it.

However, letting it expire is not the end of the world if the options to use it are not exactly compelling. Or if those options are simply unavailable. But there are still 17 days to go.
 

Cellar-Door

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yeah, I have no problem with not using the TPE for 2 reasons...
1. I don't see a readily available guy who fits it and would crack our top 8-9.
2. I don't have a problem with Wyc drawing the line on tax around where he is ($30M), that's one of the higher numbers in the league and it's a good start for a range that he can probably sustain for a 3-4 year window, which I'd prefer over a 1 year push.

Also, not committing to a guy we don't need now, makes it more likely that if someone shakes loose midseason we can add him with one of the smaller TPEs.

Honestly the 2 additions today, and Huerter's trade... there aren't a lot of guys out there right now worth adding.
I liked Burks, but Brogdon being here means no real spot for him anymore.
I wouldn't want Robinson (also MIA probably wants him for matching in their bids for KD or Mitchell)
Beasley isn't a fit
Kuzma isn't a fit
Holmes isn't available...

That's about all the guys who might MAYBE make our top 9.
 

the moops

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Yeah, the real problem with the TPE is that no one is available that would crack the rotation at this point.
They could still use it if only to extend the window. Like if they got an expiring deal of an overpaid vet for peanuts they could staple a pick and other assets to that guy at the deadline for an upgrade
 

Cellar-Door

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They could still use it if only to extend the window. Like if they got an expiring deal of an overpaid vet for peanuts they could staple a pick and other assets to that guy at the deadline for an upgrade
That's a pretty big ask of Wyc.... "Hey mind paying an extra $70M in case we might need a salary match at the deadline?" remember how the tax works, as your salaries get higher the amount of tax you pay on each dollar goes up. Right now Wyc is looking at $30M in tax on top of $165M or so in salary. Adding $16-17M in salary also adds about $60M more in tax
 

kazuneko

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Ideally they would get another big who is playable so that TL and Al can be load managed throughout the year. Thomas Bryant is probably the best they could realistically get on the minimum. Someone like Poertl or Favors would fit in the TPE and provide regular season minutes and insurance but that gets a bit expensive for that quality of player when factoring in the tax impact. I don’t imagine those guys have any market so those tanking teams might be happy to just shed the salary.
I’d love to get Poetl, and he has to be readily available. Strong, big defender who can defend the rim when Rob sits and help the Cs against guys like Embiid.
 

Smokey Joe

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The most likely use for the TPE now is to facilitate somebody else’s trade. I am looking forward to the struggle to send KD and Kyrie elsewhere.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Starters:
C: Rob
PF: Horford
SF: Tatum
SG: Brown
PG: Smart

6th: Brogdon

Rotation:
White
Grant
Gallinari

Deep Bench:
??? (Veteran Big)
Pritchard
Hauser
Kornet
???
???

2-way:
Thomas?
???

I see a 9-man rotation, but some deep bench guys get a surprising number of minutes because of injuries, maintenace days, etc.
 

BaseballJones

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Ten man rotation. Pritchard will play plenty of minutes during the regular season. It’s the playoffs when his playing time will disappear.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Ten man rotation. Pritchard will play plenty of minutes during the regular season. It’s the playoffs when his playing time will disappear.
His minutes will spelling guys who are injured/resting. Unless the Celtics abandon 2 bigs almost entirely and go small in the frontcourt. They aren’t going to play Pritchard at the expense of better guards.
 

lovegtm

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His minutes will spelling guys who are injured/resting. Unless the Celtics abandon 2 bigs almost entirely and go small in the frontcourt. They aren’t going to play Pritchard at the expense of better guards.
Yeah, I think Hauser has a better chance for minutes in some ways.

On the other hand, injuries and rest happen. I'd expect both Pritchard and Hauser to see a decent amount of time this year.
 

BaseballJones

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His minutes will spelling guys who are injured/resting. Unless the Celtics abandon 2 bigs almost entirely and go small in the frontcourt. They aren’t going to play Pritchard at the expense of better guards.
Of course they'll play their better players more. But 82 games is a long regular season, and guys do rest, and guys do get hurt, and guys do get in foul trouble, and one lesson I hope IME has learned is that if you lean heavily on your core rotation guys during the regular season, they might run out of gas in the finals. I'm not 100% sure that's what DID happen this past season, but it easily could have been a factor. So yeah, I see a guy like Pritchard getting plenty of playing time. I mean, hell, this past season, the #10, #11, and #12 guys in terms of minutes played per game were:

#10 - Theis: 18.7
#11 - Langford: 16.5
#12 - Pritchard: 14.1

I mean, even the #14 guy on the list, Nesmith, averaged 11.0 minutes a game.

The point is...during a long regular season, guys pretty far down the depth chart actually get fairly decent amounts of playing time. I suspect Pritchard, at #10 on the depth chart right now (as I see it....maybe #11 depending on Hauser), will average about 15 minutes or more per game. I know it's not 15 minutes EVERY GAME, because some games he won't play much at all (or AT all), and some games he'll play more due to injury, but yeah, he'll get plenty of run this year unless he himself is hurt. He's a pretty good basketball player, who does bring good things to the table. Especially for the regular season.
 

lovegtm

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I'm half expecting PP and/or GW to be traded.
Yeah, Grant is actually costing them a lot this year, when you multiply 4.3M by the tax. He also has value around the league with some team: there were reports that he was the piece Indy wanted in the Brogdon deal.

On the other hand, Giannis still plays for Milwaukee. As long as that's the case, Grant is more valuable than he would be otherwise.

PP is starting to feel pretty redundant, and they may prefer the backup shooting to come from taller guys in Gallinari+Hauser. At the same time, his tax number doesn't move the needle much.

I'd be down to swap out PP in a deal to use part of the TPE for a 5-9M backup center, if Bryant won't come for the vet min. Save a bit of tax, address a position of greater need with TL's health and Al's age.
 

bosockboy

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Yeah, Grant is actually costing them a lot this year, when you multiply 4.3M by the tax. He also has value around the league with some team: there were reports that he was the piece Indy wanted in the Brogdon deal.

On the other hand, Giannis still plays for Milwaukee. As long as that's the case, Grant is more valuable than he would be otherwise.

PP is starting to feel pretty redundant, and they may prefer the backup shooting to come from taller guys in Gallinari+Hauser. At the same time, his tax number doesn't move the needle much.

I'd be down to swap out PP in a deal to use part of the TPE for a 5-9M backup center, if Bryant won't come for the vet min. Save a bit of tax, address a position of greater need with TL's health and Al's age.
Spurs in need of PG help with Murray gone. PP+pick for Poeltl would seem to make sense. Then sign a vet minimum guard.
 

sezwho

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The most likely use for the TPE now is to facilitate somebody else’s trade. I am looking forward to the struggle to send KD and Kyrie elsewhere.
Not sure on latest cap machinations but I thought using a portion of the TPE, however small, resets the timer on the remainder. If that’s accurate I would expect Brad to at least do something small to maintain the asset: once over the cap (for foreseeable future) keeping every venue for improvement alive becomes priority.

Also, go POBOS! I’ve never seen such a universally approved trade on these boards…hopefully a harbinger of more good things to come.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Of course they'll play their better players more. But 82 games is a long regular season, and guys do rest, and guys do get hurt, and guys do get in foul trouble, and one lesson I hope IME has learned is that if you lean heavily on your core rotation guys during the regular season, they might run out of gas in the finals. I'm not 100% sure that's what DID happen this past season, but it easily could have been a factor. So yeah, I see a guy like Pritchard getting plenty of playing time. I mean, hell, this past season, the #10, #11, and #12 guys in terms of minutes played per game were:

#10 - Theis: 18.7
#11 - Langford: 16.5
#12 - Pritchard: 14.1

I mean, even the #14 guy on the list, Nesmith, averaged 11.0 minutes a game.

The point is...during a long regular season, guys pretty far down the depth chart actually get fairly decent amounts of playing time. I suspect Pritchard, at #10 on the depth chart right now (as I see it....maybe #11 depending on Hauser), will average about 15 minutes or more per game. I know it's not 15 minutes EVERY GAME, because some games he won't play much at all (or AT all), and some games he'll play more due to injury, but yeah, he'll get plenty of run this year unless he himself is hurt. He's a pretty good basketball player, who does bring good things to the table. Especially for the regular season.
I didn't say they would get no minutes. I just don't think they will be in an "everyone is healthy and dressing for the game" rotation unless the Celtics decide to go small and play Tatum a lot of minutes at PF as the regular lineup.
 

DGreenwood

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Not sure on latest cap machinations but I thought using a portion of the TPE, however small, resets the timer on the remainder. If that’s accurate I would expect Brad to at least do something small to maintain the asset: once over the cap (for foreseeable future) keeping every venue for improvement alive becomes priority.

Also, go POBOS! I’ve never seen such a universally approved trade on these boards…hopefully a harbinger of more good things to come.
Using a portion of the TPE doesn't reset the time on the remainder. They got the Tristan Thompson TPE last summer, and used most of it on Theis, but the balance is about to expire next week.
 

mikeford

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So with Danilo and Brogdon in the fold, the things that the roster still lacks are a 3rd string big man (a 2nd string big man because TL is always getting injured and Al Horford is 36 years old) and a defensive minded wing. Thomas Bryant fits the role of the first need if he decides to join us but as far as I understand we basically only have league minimum left to offer?

Is there anyone out there that fits the 2nd need? One of the bigger problems in the Finals I thought was JT and JB having to expend A LOT of energy on defense, which hurt their ability to produce points on the other end.
 

Smokey Joe

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So with Danilo and Brogdon in the fold, the things that the roster still lacks are a 3rd string big man (a 2nd string big man because TL is always getting injured and Al Horford is 36 years old) and a defensive minded wing. Thomas Bryant fits the role of the first need if he decides to join us but as far as I understand we basically only have league minimum left to offer?

Is there anyone out there that fits the 2nd need? One of the bigger problems in the Finals I thought was JT and JB having to expend A LOT of energy on defense, which hurt their ability to produce points on the other end.
Poeltl into the TPE
 

pjheff

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Is there anyone out there that fits the 2nd need? One of the bigger problems in the Finals I thought was JT and JB having to expend A LOT of energy on defense, which hurt their ability to produce points on the other end.
I’m kind of wondering if Brogdon will get the minutes we envisioned for a wing acquisition. Barring injuries, the 96 frontcourt minutes will be split among Horford/TL/Grant/Gallinari and the other 144 between Tatum/Brown/Smart/White/Brogdon.
 

benhogan

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Starters:
C: Rob
PF: Horford
SF: Tatum
SG: Brown
PG: Smart

6th: Brogdon

Rotation:
White
Grant
Gallinari

Deep Bench:
??? (Veteran Big)
Pritchard
Hauser
Kornet
???
???

2-way:
Thomas?
???

I see a 9-man rotation, but some deep bench guys get a surprising number of minutes because of injuries, maintenace days, etc.
JD Davidson is probably on a 2-way. Maybe Begarin?

Needs:
1. vet 5 on min - Thomas Bryant please
2. a defense-first wing on the min
3. a defense-first 5 on min

OKC going completely young with a roster/minute crunch. Kick the tires on Muscala ($3.5M) & Kenrich Williams ($2M)