Celtics hire Ime Udoka as HC

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,272
I like Scal much more on National podcasts or just discussing basketball more than calling the actual games. I don’t think he’s bad as a color guy, just not particularly good. Whereas his Lowe Post appearances I’ve found him to be very insightful
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
No, I think your comment and BSF's comment was appropriate; I just don't know how I feel. On the one hand, I think Scal is way above average than most color commentators - he'll point out actions that the Cs are using and will even kind of criticize players and doesn't really resort to cliches like, "They need to play harder" - but there are certainly circumstances where he hasn't treated Abby with respect (not just on the broadcasts but also on podcasts) but on the other hand, it's been going on for a while and apparently is allowed to keep going so maybe it's a schtick? I dunno.

Not to defend Scal but he's also talked about how he had to be more than a little nuts to make it to the NBA. I'm sure that's not super easy to turn off when he's still in the NBA culture calling games. Maybe he and Abby have worked it out between them. If not, I'm sure Abby has a pretty good tell-all book in her, particularly if Scal goes further than color analyst.
He has a very clear bias towards bigs.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,951
Isle of Plum
Scal knows his stuff. Can’t call myself a fan because I just don’t like how dismissive he is of people who didn’t formerly play (some of the interactions between he and Abby last year, who is as good as it gets in the industry, are representative of that), but he knows hoop
Agreed, thought maybe his periodic disrespecting of Abby was just me. He obviously know more hoops than anyone who didn’t play or coach, but so does most any former baller, and I think it doesn’t always come across the way he would want. on plus side he seems pretty dialed into the team and players and is willing at times to call out bad play
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,934
Cultural hub of the universe
Karalis on his podcast this morning talking up Ime being in the conversation for Coach of the Year. Ime gets a mention in the Athletic's COTY discussion as well. Quite a turnaround from a couple of months ago.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
11,997
He's gotten a team that had a lot of defensive talent to be a dominant unit, not just top-5. Everyone is on the same page, and consistent effort has been incredibly good, to a degree that's rare over the course of an NBA season.

Once the White trade fixed the backcourt, he's now getting PP consistent time, which means that TL, Grant, and PP have been developed well, leaving just Nesmith languishing (not the end of the world, and I don't think he's deserved much playing time).

Brad also deserves a lot of credit for making deals that made rotations and strategy easier for his coach.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
I think one philosophy change between Brad and Ime is that Brad's approach was often to figure out what players did well and emphasize doing that. "What, Jae Crowder? On offense you can shoot threes and drive closeouts but maybe not so much else? OK, keep doing that, that's your role in our offense." Ime is more about getting guys to play his system. It looked rough at first, but much better as they figure it out.

Edit: I don't mean this as an absolute, bright line. I'm sure Ime wants his guys doing things they can do. But Ime is maybe more focused on expanding their capabilities and fitting them into his system.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,753
Twin Cities
I think one philosophy change between Brad and Ime is that Brad's approach was often to figure out what players did well and emphasize doing that. "What, Jae Crowder? On offense you can shoot threes and drive closeouts but maybe not so much else? OK, keep doing that, that's your role in our offense." Ime is more about getting guys to play his system. It looked rough at first, but much better as they figure it out.

Edit: I don't mean this as an absolute, bright line. I'm sure Ime wants his guys doing things they can do. But Ime is maybe more focused on expanding their capabilities and fitting them into his system.
Both approaches are good and necessary. But they need balancing. You’re never gonna get that fish to climb a tree, and you’re never going to get a sum greater than its parts if you lonely focus on the parts.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,491
Since Ime took (IMO) an inordinate share of criticism in the early part of the year definitely wanted to point out some of the praise he's been getting as well. According to this article - https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/19/22986201/jayson-tatum-ime-udoka-boston-celtics-sacramento-kings-jaylen-brown-domantas-sabonis-marcus-smart - , JT points to Ime's consistency as being a key part of getting to this current type of play.
When asked about Udoka after the win over Sacramento, Tatum had nothing but praise for the rookie head coach.
“He’s done a great job. You just think about first-year head coach in Boston with expectations, the rocky start that we had, all the outside noise, and what people expected us to be. I just think that as a coach in general that we’ve been tough, but especially your first year.”
* * * *
As much as Udoka’s schemes have helped the C’s on the court, Tatum also noted how great he’s been off the court, especially during the team’s early season struggles.
“I think just how he was always uplifting everybody and always kept the right mindset and was always encouraging us that we were gonna figure it out. I think it just kept the group afloat.”
* * * *
Obviously, it’s the team’s incredible turnaround that has thrown him in that ring. But according to Tatum, the entire team knew it was just a matter of time before they started winning consistently and it was Udoka who guided them there.
“We always felt we were right there to turning that corner. And we all believed that. He’s done a great job of just making sure that we’re always on the same page.”
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
A piece on Udoka from Sam Amick in today's Athletic. There isn't a lot of substance there but I figured the forum would find this part interesting:

If you had to pinpoint a moment where it started turning around and why, what would that be?

Coming off the West Coast trip, we had a hard session where I went at them pretty hard.

Where were you? Paint that picture for me a little bit.

Film session (in Boston), back off the Utah, Portland, Clippers, Lakers, Phoenix trip.

In early December, the Celtics went 1-4 against those teams and fell to 13-14.

We didn’t have a good trip, but it was more so all the things that we had built to that point. Whether we were losing some big leads, playing a certain way. And we didn’t (play well on) that trip. So I hit them with a 75 flip film session — 75 different clips.
So there you have it. We have the name for a championship video if there is a need for one. "75 Flips: The Story Of The '21-22 Boston Celtics"
 

mikeot

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2006
8,147
So there you have it. We have the name for a championship video if there is a need for one. "75 Flips: The Story Of The '21-22 Boston Celtics"
[/QUOTE]
Can't wait to order a "75 Flips" hat and teeshirt !
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,491
I know there's a lot more to talk about when things aren't going so well but man Ime has been a revelation in this series. Maybe it's because he's really familiar with the Nets or maybe it's because of all of the lessons he's learned from Pop (or both!) but it seems like every button Ime has pushed up to now - maybe even since January 23 - has been the correct one. Props to him.

Here's a funny quote from the NY Daily Post:

Coach A has seven seasons studying as an assistant under decorated coaching legend Gregg Popovich and another season as an assistant coaching Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons on the Philadelphia 76ers.
Coach B is one of the best point guards in NBA history who spent two seasons as a player development consultant with the Golden State Warriors but has no formal experience as an assistant coach anywhere. He worked with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant and Draymond Green, but did not lead them on a nightly basis.
The Nets hired Coach B two seasons ago and made Coach A his understudy. Now Coach A is getting his revenge.
Coach A, aka Ime Udoka, just thoroughly outsmarted, out-adjusted and out-gameplanned Coach B, aka Steve Nash, to lead his team to a 2-0 first-round series lead in the playoffs.
Nash does not have any answers for Udoka’s adjustments.
 

CPT Neuron

Got Pitching?
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,515
Biddeford, ME
Ime oozes Pop vibes, right down to the non-TO call last night...I watched Pop up close and personal while in SA for 4 years, and he is a Pop clone behaviorally at the moment.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
I know there's a lot more to talk about when things aren't going so well but man Ime has been a revelation in this series. Maybe it's because he's really familiar with the Nets or maybe it's because of all of the lessons he's learned from Pop (or both!) but it seems like every button Ime has pushed up to now - maybe even since January 23 - has been the correct one. Props to him.

Here's a funny quote from the NY Daily Post:

Coach A has seven seasons studying as an assistant under decorated coaching legend Gregg Popovich and another season as an assistant coaching Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons on the Philadelphia 76ers.
Coach B is one of the best point guards in NBA history who spent two seasons as a player development consultant with the Golden State Warriors but has no formal experience as an assistant coach anywhere. He worked with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant and Draymond Green, but did not lead them on a nightly basis.
The Nets hired Coach B two seasons ago and made Coach A his understudy. Now Coach A is getting his revenge.
Coach A, aka Ime Udoka, just thoroughly outsmarted, out-adjusted and out-gameplanned Coach B, aka Steve Nash, to lead his team to a 2-0 first-round series lead in the playoffs.
Nash does not have any answers for Udoka’s adjustments.
Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2006
4,517
Atlanta, GA
Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
I think this is a real problem for the Nets. Remember Kyrie brushing the Nash hiring off, basically saying, "We don't need a coach." This is where they are now.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,272
Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
That’s a great point. Tatum and Brown are younger, not quite as “established” as KD and Kyrie and seem way, way more coachable.

Regardless, Ime has been great. As Gorman tweeted out earlier, he got through to the players and the results have been outstanding
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,491
Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
Valid point and to add to that, another article made the point that Nash has been hamstrung by KI not being able to be with the team most of the year so he couldn't install anything terribly complicated (in all likelihood).

I think Nash is being given a bit of a short shrift. He did make one adjustment that paid dividends - moving Curry onto JB rather than Theis - and that really helped the rebounding. And even though BRK's offense was pretty stagnant in G1, KI went off so BRK almost pulled it out.

I'm sure Nash is telling everyone that they even thought KD hasn't had a normal game, BRK almost won G1 and had a 17 point lead in G2 - if BRK wins G3, it's a whole new series.

But yeah, it sure looks like the Cs have a coaching advantage.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
I may be misinterpreting him but this Kyrie post-game comment stuck out to me:

“Ime [an assistant with the Nets last year] knows us really well,’’ acknowledged Irving. " . . . I don’t want to put it just on Kev. It’s a team game. For myself, I take accountability. I need to make it easier for him and I can do that. It’s not going to be easy, but it can be done . . . they’re doing a great job of contesting our pull-ups and making sure we don’t get open looks.’’
Kyrie only mentions "making it easier for" KD (maybe that was the question?). And I read "our" pull-ups and open looks as only him and KD. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,491
I may be misinterpreting him but this Kyrie post-game comment stuck out to me:



Kyrie only mentions "making it easier for" KD (maybe that was the question?). And I read "our" pull-ups and open looks as only him and KD. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Well, BRK is #1 among all playoff teams (I read) in catch-and-shoot jumpers so really only him and KD are taking pull-ups.

But basically yes, I agree that KI is talking only about him and KD. Which is the best way for him to talk from a Cs perspective.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
Well, BRK is #1 among all playoff teams (I read) in catch-and-shoot jumpers so really only him and KD are taking pull-ups.

But basically yes, I agree that KI is talking only about him and KD. Which is the best way for him to talk from a Cs perspective.
Right. Especially considering, for example, that Dragic was murdering them in the 1st half of game 2.

As for Simmons:
1) I'll believe it when I see it; and 2) no matter what his individual skills are, and no matter how sharp they are, this series has shown the importance of how players are working within whatever team structure they are attempting. Simmons cannot possibly be sharp in that area at either end of the floor. Not only hasn't he played in a year, he *wasn't even on this team* until relatively recently. And it's not like he's some sort of Steve Kerr or Dell Curry, who can sit in cold storage for 6 months and then just emerge and drain 3's all night, regardless of when he last played or with which team. Simmons, at his best, is a team lubricant, maybe like Smart in that sense. It took the Celtics 3 months to figure that out. And they had played with each other for years.
Relatedly, the comps with RWiliams's return are, as Mr. Tyson would say, ludicrisp, given the amount of, and significance of, the playing time he's already had this year with the players who are playing now. His return, especially on defense, should be close to seamless.
Nash should be terrified of the prospect of RWiliams returning. I dont think Ime Udoka has similar worries about Simmons.
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Right. Especially considering, for example, that Dragic was murdering them in the 1st half of game 2.

As for Simmons:
1) I'll believe it when I see it; and 2) no matter what his individual skills are, and no matter how sharp they are, this series has shown the importance of how players are working within whatever team structure they are attempting. Simmons cannot possibly be sharp in that area at either end of the floor. Not only hasn't he played in a year, he *wasn't even on this team* until relatively recently. And it's not like he's some sort of Steve Kerr or Dell Curry, who can sit in cold storage for 6 months and then just emerge and drain 3's all night, regardless of when he last played or with which team. Simmons, at his best, is a team lubricant, maybe like Smart in that sense. It took the Celtics 3 months to figure that out. And they had played with each other for years.
Relatedly, the comps with RWiliams's return are, as Mr. Tyson would say, ludicrisp, given the amount of, and significance of, the playing time he's already had this year with the players who are playing now. His return, especially on defense, should be close to seamless.
Nash should be terrified of the prospect of RWiliams returning. I dont think Ime Udoka has similar worries about Simmons.
Agreed, but don't be surprised for a second if Simmons does a bunch of things to really help Brooklyn.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
From today's Athletic:

Marcus Smart credited coach Ime Udoka for setting up his team to slow down the Nets star.

“Just Ime, man,” Marcus Smart said when asked how his team limited Brooklyn’s stars. “His attention to every little detail, his attention to game-planning, especially as a first-year coach, in the playoffs as a first-year head coach. I mean, you’ve gotta tip your hat off to that man. The way he schemed the game, every game plan that he had for us to put us in the right spot to succeed and be successful, so we did that. He wanted us to go in and wear ‘em down. We had the bodies, we had the guys, we had the speed, and we had the athleticism to do it. So we just have to go out there and execute his game plan and, as we’ve seen, in the first game we’ve seen it work, in the second game, and then by that third game it was like, this is it. This is our game plan and we just gotta stay with it and attack it head-on.”
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,810
Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).

The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
 

Just a bit outside

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2011
7,927
Monument, CO
Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).

The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
I give Ime all the credit in the world but it is harsh to say Brad wasn’t tough, demanded respect, etc… You don’t get to the level of coach as Brad Stevens did without those things. Brad would never do it in the media and may have lost the players ear the last year but he was/is a very good coach.
 

pantsparty

Member
SoSH Member
May 2, 2011
554
Someone on twitter caught this moment where Ime directs Grant with a quick finger motion, resulting in a bucket

 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).

The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).

The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
I agree an "in Praise of Ime" thread is warranted, that said...

The second paragraph contains a lot of... stuff.
  • How often do you go out to dinner with him that you know Stevens (I'm not on first name basis) would readily admit that he "could never have done that"? On what would you base that thought? [Edit: From my perspective Stevens never had a roster this balanced to work from. He had high end talent, but also a youthful growth of the Jays + TL + MS, endured freak/debilitating injuries (Hayward/IT4/Kemba), the KI experience, a pandemic, and a massive social movement that almost stopped the league from operating. Pretty sure those things affected his ability to achieve results in a way that Ime has in his first year. It's a reasonable certainty Stevens would trade this year long roster for anything he was dealt in his tenure.]
  • What is lacking in Stevens "moral authority"? Do you have photos of him in compromising positions with the nanny? Have you charted the curse words both coaches used on the sidelines their first year in the league? Does Ime have a theology degree? Or is this code for something else? I'm really interested in this phrase.
  • Brad doesn't command deep respect? Players across the league have commented about their respect for Brad - including players who have only competed against the Cs, never having played under him. Are there specific examples that you can cite that confirm this thought? (Anything involving KI doesn't count, IMO)
  • I'd agree with toughness - although Tatum spoke very recently about his defense and how he knew as a young player that he wasn't going to get on the court for Stevens (behind veterans KI and Hayward) unless he was focused on his defense, that is toughness. The fact that Stevens didn't call players out in the media doesn't mean he wasn't tough, it would mean he was respectful about any messages he wanted to send. Marcus Smart had a blowup in the locker room earlier in the year about players not getting with the team goals - does that mean that Ime wasn't tough enough either? Just checking, because in my book macho posturing in front of the media does not equal toughness. I'd say there were times Stevens could have put a butt or two on the bench over shot selection - but one could reasonably argue he didn't have adequate replacement butt's to put on the court while that point was being driven home. Stevens the POBO has given Ime the roster with which Ime could use that tool. Same with putting butts on the bench for arguing with officials and not getting back on defense - though we still seeing Tatum do that (twice notably in the Nets series he cost them buckets while arguing a call, though less as the season wore on). Is that an example of Ime lacking toughness?
  • Love for his players? Stevens was all about service based leadership. He walked the walk. He navigated the team through a very tough social period, and I saw not a single player express even a hint that Stevens or the Celtics weren't doing enough to support them, or use organizational resources/influence to enhance their voices at a time when players were questioning if they were being heard. Please show me a single player who thinks he wasn't shown love by Stevens (beyond professional judgements). The only one expressing disappointment that I can recall is Kanter - and the claims he is making have been disputed by Stevens specifically.
  • "Too passive, refrain from criticizing anyone" I agree with - in public. Again, a coach doesn't have to put his players on blast in the media in order to get their attention. Doc Rivers criticized Ben Simmons in the media, and look how that worked out for them. Is Doc Rivers assertive enough for you? Because one could argue Rivers' statements cost the Sixers one hell of an asset, and it could reasonably be argued he devalued the asset as well, costing them compensation when trying to move him. Personally I'd also say that Rivers has some involvement in Simmons current mental health state (your boss questioning your abilities/assigning blame on a national media stage can't leave someone in a good place) - is that good coaching?
I am perfectly fine with praising Ime (and critiquing him where it warrants it as well), I don't think one has to do it by taking a hammer to the previous successful coach. Stevens is respected enough by the organization to bring him upstairs and give him the keys to the organization (and choose his own replacement on the bench), something I don't think they would have done if they viewed him through the lens you've written.
 
Last edited:

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,112
Santa Monica
Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.
^^^^this^^^^

I was a huge fan of what Brad accomplished as HC and like his front office work even more. BUT the team needed a new voice, Brad even admitted it after he moved upstairs.

It happens in sports, unless you're Bill Belichick, who laps the NFL coaching circles (& I'm not a PATS fan)
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
I don't understand why some people cannot recognize how well Ime has done without reflexively throwing in a few parting shots at <checks notes> the guy who hired Ime.

Brad coached here for 8 years, during which he rebuilt a team that had been strip mined via the Brooklyn deal. He finished below .500 only twice, missed the playoffs only once, made 3 conference finals appearances. He is 4th in franchise history in coaching wins, 5th in playoff wins. He had to work through all sorts of adversity that Ime has not had:
  • Took over a terrible because it was scrapped for parts right before he was hired
  • Hit on only one of four major acquisitions during his tenure (Horford was the hit; Hayward, Irving, Walker were the misses)
  • His best playoff run, 2017-2018, which ended in a game 7 loss to Clevelands in the ECF, was made with 2 of the best 3 players on the team - some might say the best two - out injured). In spite of that his team had a 4th quarter lead in game 7
  • His next best playoff run, in the bubble, began with another key injury - Hayward, who was briefly looking as good as he ever had as a Celtic, hurt himself right at the start of the playoffs.
  • Especially at the end, played for a GM with a very differing philosophy on team building (just look at Brad's first trade)
Ime, by contrast:
  • Ime took over a team that coach Brad Stevens left much better than he found it.
  • Ime's GM shares his team building philosophy
  • Ime's Celtics playoff prospects would not like a legit contender if Tatum was out injured
By no means do I want to take anything away from Ime, who has done a great job in his rookie year. But Ime's virtues can be extolled without taking a big steaming dump on his predecessor.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,810
But Ime's virtues can be extolled without taking a big steaming dump on his predecessor.
I didn't mean to seem like I was doing that, and maybe these comments came off too harsh re: Brad. To be clear, I liked Brad a lot. I thought he had a certain genius in figuring out how to get the most from a given collection of players; he would figure out a way to optimize their skills as a team. He was a master with the X's and O's. He was unfailingly gracious. He's a profoundly decent guy.

But I don't think he was on a path to turning Tatum into a non-ISO playmaker. I freely confess I don't know what conversations he was having with Tatum behind the scenes. But there was a hell of a lot of ball pounding last year, and frustrating chucking of three-point shots. The ball is just moving a lot better this year. To get there, I think you needed an Ime. (But Brad has done some genius stuff in the front office to support the team, so there's that.)

Jimbo said what I should have said:

Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.
Edit to add: Gordon Hayward mentioned accountability under Stevens as a problem, and this Sports Illustrated article touches on some of the dysfunction ("They began to welcome the idea of a coaching change for Stevens's favoritism of players and inability to hold some accountable as well, per the report"). I know, different team last year, and everyone turns sour when they're losing, it seems, but there was a sense that Brad had "lost the room," as the saying goes, despite his considerable gifts as a coach.
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
I didn't mean to seem like I was doing that, and maybe these comments came off too harsh re: Brad. To be clear, I liked Brad a lot. I thought he had a certain genius in figuring out how to get the most from a given collection of players; he would figure out a way to optimize their skills as a team. He was a master with the X's and O's. He was unfailingly gracious. He's a profoundly decent guy.

But I don't think he was on a path to turning Tatum into a non-ISO playmaker. I freely confess I don't know what conversations he was having with Tatum behind the scenes. But there was a hell of a lot of ball pounding last year, and frustrating chucking of three-point shots. The ball is just moving a lot better this year. To get there, I think you needed an Ime. (But Brad has done some genius stuff in the front office to support the team, so there's that.)

Jimbo said what I should have said:



Edit to add: Gordon Hayward mentioned accountability under Stevens as a problem, and this Sports Illustrated article touches on some of the dysfunction ("They began to welcome the idea of a coaching change for Stevens's favoritism of players and inability to hold some accountable as well, per the report"). I know, different team last year, and everyone turns sour when they're losing, it seems, but there was a sense that Brad had "lost the room," as the saying goes, despite his considerable gifts as a coach.
For whatever its worth, I took your initial comments in this exact spirit.

Also, this forum seems to like Brad but many people acknowledged that Stevens had lost at least some of the room with the players even before he stepped down as coach. Stevens comments around the move confirmed as much.

In short, this whole situation has worked out spectacularly thus far. The Cs have Stevens basketball mind still overseeing the blueprint while Udoka and staff took up the mantle of getting the team to the next level. Relative to quite a few NBA peers, the Celtics are well run and it pretty good shape as things stand at present.

December of 2021 seems ages ago.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
The last two posts here put it nicely. Team in transition, Ime's approach timed well with the players as they are right now. Brad deserves plenty of credit for a) bringing in/back some of these players, and b) helping some of the guys that we drafted turn into dominant guys that they have. Of course the players themselves put in the time and their own selves into development, but Brad's brain and steady, supporting hand helped a lot imo. Ime basically inherited young veterans and implemented Phase 2 and did it swimmingly. Like he unleashed JT and JB, with improvements in Marcus, Robert, and Grant. The clamps on defense, the playmaking on offense--I think that Ime deserves a metric fuckton of credit for this. It's a gold medal coaching job from a first year coach.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,758
Brad was great when getting 32 win rosters to 45 wins, but superstars usually need to be coached differently than overachievers.

Celtics players often mention that Udoka played in the league. They also talk about his championship pedigree (although it was as an assistant coach, not a player).

The Brad/Ime combo is a good one. From coaching the core of the 2022 team previously, Steven’s one what was needed to make them a winner, and he delivered.

Udoka hasn’t been hesitant to coach this team his way. His toughness and consistency has been refreshing, especially in a league famous for coaches coddling star players.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
Brad was great when getting 32 win rosters to 45 wins, but superstars usually need to be coached differently than overachievers.
This cliche is ahistorical. Celtic win totals under Brad:
  • 13-14: 25
  • 14-15: 40
  • 15-16: 48
  • 16-17: 53
  • 17-18: 55 (without it's top FA signing)
  • 18-19: 49
  • 19-20: 48 (in shortened season; would scale to 55 over a full season)
  • 20-21: 36 (in shortened season; would scale to 41 over a full season)
Brad averaged more wins during his peak years (2015-16 to 2019-20; 52 wins) than Ime's Celtics won this year (51 wins). He did this despite career-changing and untimely injuries to top players, the Kyrie problem, the Kemba problem, the loss of Al Horford, and a GM who was - in hindsight - not on the same page as him when it came to team-building.

Ime had to deal with none of that. He had his own problems to solve (see first half) which he did (see second half). It looks like the coaching change (and GM change) were brilliant moves.

That doesn't mean Brad wasn't a damned good coach in his own right - one that did an excellent job in spite of some critical bad breaks.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,112
Santa Monica
IME's adjustments were high level along with his rotations and use of 2 TOs in Q3 to stop any kind of Buck momentum

Adjustment #1 - Using Grant for 35 minutes
Adjustment #2 - TL's minutes to 25
Adjustment #3 - No Theis

IME is spreading the Bucks out defensively. Ball movers and shooting will get the C's offense popping

Adjustment #4 - leaving Grant or Horford on Giannis Island

Not helping with Giannis rim runs and staying with the Buck's perimeter shooters led to 3/18 from 3 from the Bucks

Adjustment #5 - Ball security/limit TO's

Fewer turnovers = Fewer Buck transition points.
White (& others) handled the ball well. Putting the Bucks in the halfcourt, without Middleton, will travel to Wisconsin.


The Celtics will need to go 5 wide The Bucks have 3 shot blockers (GA/BL/BP) & a tenacious/strong PG in the lane.

Just don't turn the ball over so damn much and they'll be fine

Spread them out, dribble drive, draw and kick out for step-in 3s

PP/Grant will need to shoot from the Corners (~ 50% this season)
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
4,203
Silver Spring, Maryland
I don't understand why some people cannot recognize how well Ime has done without reflexively throwing in a few parting shots at <checks notes> the guy who hired Ime.

Brad coached here for 8 years, during which he rebuilt a team that had been strip mined via the Brooklyn deal. He finished below .500 only twice, missed the playoffs only once, made 3 conference finals appearances. He is 4th in franchise history in coaching wins, 5th in playoff wins. He had to work through all sorts of adversity that Ime has not had:
  • Took over a terrible because it was scrapped for parts right before he was hired
  • Hit on only one of four major acquisitions during his tenure (Horford was the hit; Hayward, Irving, Walker were the misses)
  • His best playoff run, 2017-2018, which ended in a game 7 loss to Clevelands in the ECF, was made with 2 of the best 3 players on the team - some might say the best two - out injured). In spite of that his team had a 4th quarter lead in game 7
  • His next best playoff run, in the bubble, began with another key injury - Hayward, who was briefly looking as good as he ever had as a Celtic, hurt himself right at the start of the playoffs.
  • Especially at the end, played for a GM with a very differing philosophy on team building (just look at Brad's first trade)
Ime, by contrast:
  • Ime took over a team that coach Brad Stevens left much better than he found it.
  • Ime's GM shares his team building philosophy
  • Ime's Celtics playoff prospects would not like a legit contender if Tatum was out injured
By no means do I want to take anything away from Ime, who has done a great job in his rookie year. But Ime's virtues can be extolled without taking a big steaming dump on his predecessor.
Viz 2017-18: I will go to my grave believing that if ONE of Shane Larkin or Daniel Theis were available, they beat Cleveland. And given their matchups, would of had a non-insignficant
chance of beating GSW!
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
It may not be the first time he's done it, but its the first one I've seen. Ime cracks a joke at Smart's expense:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/05/sports/brad-stevens-says-hes-hopeful-celtics-marcus-smart-will-play-game-3-vs-bucks/

Celtics coach Ime Udoka was sitting at a podium on the sixth floor of the Auerbach Center Thursday when he was asked about the importance of guard Marcus Smart, who missed Game 2 of the conference semifinals against the Bucks because of a quadriceps contusion.

“We don’t even need Marcus, honestly,” Udoka said, trying to keep a straight face under his mask.

Then he smiled and gestured to the back of the room, where Smart was waiting for his chance to speak.

“He’s back there laughing a little bit,” Udoka said. “But no, of course. I talked about it before last game, the impact he has on us in setting the tone on a night-to-night basis. And so one thing we have had unfortunately the experience of this year is guys being in and out of the lineup. And so other guys have had to step up.”
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,189
Ime has done a particularly good job with Smart---he has gotten him to fully buy in to a PG role offensively which I did not know for sure Marcus had in him, he's enabled Marcus to be a 'voice' defensively, and he's clearly managed through the early-season squabbles among Smart and others.

From an emotional intelligence/managing ego perspective Ime has taken on a pretty challenging profile in Smart and completely hit it out of the park. Wonderful job, and that joke illustrates the strenght of the relationhip he's built and the way he's using it
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
Ime has done a particularly good job with Smart---he has gotten him to fully buy in to a PG role offensively which I did not know for sure Marcus had in him, he's enabled Marcus to be a 'voice' defensively, and he's clearly managed through the early-season squabbles among Smart and others.

From an emotional intelligence/managing ego perspective Ime has taken on a pretty challenging profile in Smart and completely hit it out of the park. Wonderful job, and that joke illustrates the strenght of the relationhip he's built and the way he's using it
I think he also got to Smart at exactly the right time. Smart has naturally matured in basketball and (probably) non-basketball ways, but he still has tread on the tires. Sports are full of players who finally "get it" when their bodies are on the verge of saying "too bad."
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,500
It may not be the first time he's done it, but its the first one I've seen. Ime cracks a joke at Smart's expense:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/05/sports/brad-stevens-says-hes-hopeful-celtics-marcus-smart-will-play-game-3-vs-bucks/
This is great. He also roasted Grant on the Sports Hub yesterday.
"For good or bad, yes, he has a voice," Udoka quipped on Thursday. "He's very talkative, very opinionated. But on the floor it's what we need, we need the communication. Very vocal and we encourage that. Off the court he doesn't stop either, so we take it with a grain of salt and we'll take it if he's that vocal on the court."

Udoka was asked what Williams' most unorthodox opinion has been.

"That he should get plays ran for him like Jayson and Jaylen do," Udoka answered. "I called one play for him this year against Oklahoma City when (Shai) Gilgeous-Alexander was on him. He got a post-up and Gil just blocked him at the rim and that was pretty much his one attempt."
This looks like the play, great defense by SGA

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=77&GameID=0022101078&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Williams 6' Dunk&sct=plot
 

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
8,125
New York, NY
Ime has done a particularly good job with Smart---he has gotten him to fully buy in to a PG role offensively which I did not know for sure Marcus had in him, he's enabled Marcus to be a 'voice' defensively, and he's clearly managed through the early-season squabbles among Smart and others.

From an emotional intelligence/managing ego perspective Ime has taken on a pretty challenging profile in Smart and completely hit it out of the park. Wonderful job, and that joke illustrates the strenght of the relationhip he's built and the way he's using it
What makes Smart a “challenging profile”?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,237
What makes Smart a “challenging profile”?
I wont speak for the OP, but I think there's a general view that Smart's game and his approach to it had to be overhauled. I am likely in the minority on this, but I think Smart was mostly in the "right place" all along. It was JB and JT who needed to adjust their thinking and "catch up" to him.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,518
Maine
My Personal Opinion....which means squat.....Ime handled Smart exactly right. Smart wanted to be a star and have a voice. IE "Be the Captain". Often without the production to be an "Alpha".
Smart had been trying to do that with Good D and ATTEMPTING to Score 20+ a game with threes.
Ime said "Hey Do it with Defense instead. Be a DEFENSIVE Alpha".
Smart bought in and has excelled now with Hellacious D and passing and letting the scoring come to him for 10-20 a night.
Seems easy but he also had to sell the rest of the team that"On the defensive end Smart is the leader/Alpha. Listen to him". That had the added benefit of also giving him some "cred" on the offensive end as the "PG". JT and JB to their credit bought in and all three have flourished and have had plenty of Ego stroke to keep everyone happy and committed.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
My Personal Opinion....which means squat.....Ime handled Smart exactly right. Smart wanted to be a star and have a voice. IE "Be the Captain". Often without the production to be an "Alpha".
Smart had been trying to do that with Good D and ATTEMPTING to Score 20+ a game with threes.
Ime said "Hey Do it with Defense instead. Be a DEFENSIVE Alpha".
Smart bought in and has excelled now with Hellacious D and passing and letting the scoring come to him for 10-20 a night.
Seems easy but he also had to sell the rest of the team that"On the defensive end Smart is the leader/Alpha. Listen to him". That had the added benefit of also giving him some "cred" on the offensive end as the "PG". JT and JB to their credit bought in and all three have flourished and have had plenty of Ego stroke to keep everyone happy and committed.
I don't think much changed other than Marcus Smart and the rest of the team started hitting 3s at their expected levels.
.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,189
Others said it---in my words, Smart is a bright, tenacious, competitive personality who wants a voice and also is a bit of an alpha by style who doesn't have an 'alpha' offensive game. He has, on occasion, lost his cool on the court and one suspects (though I don't know for sure) off it.

I am a huge fan of his going back to the start and believe that kind of fiery competitor is an essential element of a winning team. But those profiles---be it Bird, Jordan, Draymond---also come with challenges for a coach.