Celtics hire Ime Udoka as HC

Cesar Crespo

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Schroder is being significantly overrated based on his volume scoring ability when his offense is very average overall. His last four seasons, counting this year, RAPTOR has him at -0.8, +1.4, -0.2, and -0.4. His 19/20 season stands out because his defense rated much better when playing with Chris Paul. That’s not a quirk of RAPTOR. LEBRON rates him, excluding this year where no ratings are available, at -0.68, 0.09, -0.51. Again, the difference is mostly defense when he was in OKC, although a smaller difference, and LEBRON values his offense a bit more than RAPTOR does.

Kanter plays less, so his ratings should be discounted accordingly, but there’s also no indication he cannot maintain his performance with more minutes. Over those same time spans RAPTOR rates him 0, +2.0, -0.3, -5.7. LEBRON rates him +0.45, -0.13, +2.33.

I think Kanter is worse than his advanced metrics indicate because he becomes a liability in the playoffs, but we’re not talking about playoffs right now, and Kanter is an average regular season center. Schroder is an average point guard who doesn’t have Kanter’s matchup and playoff problems. Both are flawed but useful players. Neither is a player you should want to be starting. And, to cut off criticisms, I am citing advanced metrics not as an ending point, but because they accord in this instance with what I have seen watching these players. Schroder is a mediocre defender, a poor shooter, and turns the ball over too much. He does score and penetrate, and he’s not selfish so much as lacking in vision.

By way of contrast, Smart, who is also a poor shooter and turns the ball over too much, has very good vision and is an improving passer. He is also an excellent defender, but obviously a bad scorer. RAPTOR rates him (same time span) at +2.4, +2.9, +0.9, +4.3. He’s a solidly above average offensive player and very good defensively except last year. LEBRON likes him less, but agrees that he’s clearly better than Schroder, with +0.52, +1.00, +0.29 ratings. This Board, and fans generally, consistently mistake Smart’s poor shooting for being a poor offensive player, but that isn’t accurate. He makes up for his poor shooting with very good passing, a very good understanding of positional offense, and by generally recognizing his weaknesses and not taking too many shots.
Maybe, I think a decent chunk of the board wants to play them together and are only arguing for one over the other because Ime seems dead set on 2 bigs. Even more so when Al isn't hitting his 3s.

edit: I also think if advanced metrics are telling us Kanter is just as valuable as Schroder, maybe we should take those advanced metrics with a grain of salt. Or the metrics are being used wrong. DS would have got paid if not for his agent.
 
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JakeRae

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Maybe, I think a decent chunk of the board wants to play them together and are only arguing for one over the other because Ime seems dead set on 2 bigs. Even more so when Al isn't hitting his 3s.
Sure, but Al and Timelord are also better than Schroder. It also seems to matter to Horford that he starts, and if that’s true, starting him is the right call. They need to overlap 10 mpg or so anyway. A healthy minutes allocation like the below works perfectly well starting them and also makes sense talent wise for this roster.

5: Timelord 30 mpg, Horford 18 mpg
4: Horford 12 mpg, Grant Williams 20 mpg, Tatum 16 mpg
3: Tatum 18 mpg, Brown 18 mpg, Richardson 12 mpg
2: Brown 16 mpg, Richardson 8 mpg, Smart 16 mpg, Langford 8 mpg
1: Smart 18 mpg, Schroder 30 mpg

This assumes 34 mpg for Smart, Tatum, and Brown, 30 mpg for Timelord, Horford, and Schroder, 20 mpg for Grant and Richardson, and 8 mpg for Romeo (feel free to swap with Nesmith if you think Nesmith passes him on the depth chart at some point). This is obviously a full health rotation that we won’t see much. One of the 30 mpg guys needs to come off the bench and it shouldn’t ultimately impact the team on the court much which player Ime picks. There’s likely really good locker room reasons for it to be Schroder instead of Timelord or Horford though.
 

Jimbodandy

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Maybe, I think a decent chunk of the board wants to play them together and are only arguing for one over the other because Ime seems dead set on 2 bigs. Even more so when Al isn't hitting his 3s.

edit: I also think if advanced metrics are telling us Kanter is just as valuable as Schroder, maybe we should take those advanced metrics with a grain of salt. Or the metrics are being used wrong. DS would have got paid if not for his agent.
Kanter's numbers are worthless due to sample sizes being so small. Schroeder's probably too.

That said, I expect that Schroeder will grade out pretty poorly defensively at the end of the year by most metrics. He goes through ghastly stretches, when he isn't being protected by plus defenders around him.

I think that we have to live with it, because he's a great ballhandler and is our only guy besides Jaylen that can get past his guy any time that he wants. There's real value to that. Jayson does too, but he does it so slowly that it's not hard to sneak up on him and rip his spin moves. We need Schroeder's gifts. But man he gives back points. He's like the anti-Smart.

Someone wrote upthread about how we're not running 2big to close games. That's really what matters imo. Who starts and what that says to the players...I don't know.
 

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There might be an argument for "always at least two of Jaylen, Jayson, and Schroder" on the floor. That would tend to suggest Schroder off the bench.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If Udoka felt the two-big was his optimal lineup then why doesn’t he hardly even play it down the stretch of close games when both were available?
How often have the 2 been available and it was a close game. I didn't do an exhaustive search but two games I could find were DAL and MIl. Vs. DAL, the Mavs the only tall person DAL was playing was Porzingas so it makes some sense that Ime wouldn't play both Al and TL. Vs. MIL, Al and TL did play together at the end of the 4Q and I believe part of OT.

The other games I looked at either Al or TL weren't available or the game wasn't close.

There are two lineups with Al + TL that are in the top 4 for minutes played: TL + Al + JT + MS + DS has playedover 54 minutes and has a net +2.9 pts/100 and TL + Al + JB + JT + MS has played over 51 minutes and has a net +8.8 pts/100. So I'm guessing the Cs coaching staff sees that Al + TL can play together effectively.
 

benhogan

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Serious question - are there people here who think the front office and coaching staff don't already look at all possible rotation combos for optimal match-ups and trends?

I assume they use this information regularly and then coaches adjust based on availability, game context etc but maybe the Celtics wing it.
Yea, obviously the front office/coaching staff analyze all the permutations but the data (on using 2BIGZ this season) is so small the decision-making based solely on that is flawed at this point. Nobody here has suggested they "wing it" or called for IME to be fired. In fact, if you carefully read what's being written around here most posters agree with 95% of what our Rookie/1st time HC has done so far.

The starting of 2BIGZ in lieu of DS has basically been the biggest point of contention since opening night. A lot of that has to do not only with the results on the court but with the long/short-term health of Rob Williams & Al Horford. Their availability hasn't been great so far, maybe careful use of their valuable minutes would be prudent. YMMV

We'll see how it plays out, but I'd expect by All-Star break (if not sooner) we'll see Schroder as the starting PG w/Jays, Smart, Horford or TL starting at the 5.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yea, obviously the front office/coaching staff analyze all the permutations but the data (on using 2BIGZ this season) is so small the decision-making based solely on that is flawed at this point. Nobody here has suggested they "wing it" or called for IME to be fired. In fact, if you carefully read what's being written around here most posters agree with 95% of what our Rookie/1st time HC has done so far.

The starting of 2BIGZ in lieu of DS has basically been the biggest point of contention since opening night. A lot of that has to do not only with the results on the court but with the long/short-term health of Rob Williams & Al Horford. Their availability hasn't been great so far, maybe careful use of their valuable minutes would be prudent. YMMV

We'll see how it plays out, but I'd expect by All-Star break (if not sooner) we'll see Schroder as the starting PG w/Jays, Smart, Horford or TL starting at the 5.
This is fair. Udoka specifically said to fans not to analyze line-ups during the preseason. Clearly we are well past that but given injuries and the fact that most of this team is still getting familiar, I suspect that we'll continue to see rotations that might confound us.

To me, the rotation the Celtics start with and use during the season isn't that interesting. Obviously the one they will use in the meaningful games - if they can get any meaningful games - is the one to focus on and there are a lot of minutes until then.
 

tbb345

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Schroeder seems to naturally be a “0” guard. He’s not truly a facilitator and seems to look for his shot more than setting up teammates.
I think it’s fine for him to move to the bench.

Udoka has already said he will be in the game at closing time, so I don’t think it’s a huge deal if he doesn’t start the game.

And this is coming from someone who has been pretty anti-Udoka thus far
 

benhogan

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Schroeder seems to naturally be a “0” guard. He’s not truly a facilitator and seems to look for his shot more than setting up teammates.
I think it’s fine for him to move to the bench.

Udoka has already said he will be in the game at closing time, so I don’t think it’s a huge deal if he doesn’t start the game.

And this is coming from someone who has been pretty anti-Udoka thus far
Shortening and concentrating DS minutes, since he won't play ~ the first 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters, is a poor way to utilize the team's best penetrator and 3rd best scorer. If he was the 4th or 5th offensive option I'd be with you.

Don't expect Schroder to be high energy if you jam his 30mpg in 36 available minutes
 

lovegtm

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I liked that Ime called timeout a couple times last night as soon as energy lagged. Seemed to work a lot better than the "let them play through it" we've seen the past few years.
 

benhogan

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I liked that Ime called timeout a couple times last night as soon as energy lagged. Seemed to work a lot better than the "let them play through it" we've seen the past few years.
Yep, he did it with a 20pt lead and liked the TO there. He gets "coaching" pointz. Playing "right" throughout has to be the teams mindset instead of letting guys hoist and party when up by double digits, as we've seen previously (even the scrubs seem to have learned)

Also, IME did a good job with Brown last night. JB looked either rusty or still hobbled in H1 and IME let him play through it. Jaylen, on 1 leg, is better offensively than everyone on this team not named Jayson.

Shortening and concentrating DS minutes, since he won't play ~ the first 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters, is a poor way to utilize the team's best penetrator and 3rd best scorer. If he was the 4th or 5th offensive option I'd be with you.

Don't expect Schroder to be high energy if you jam his 30mpg in 36 available minutes
My 2 small IME quibbles last night:
1. IME concentrated Schroder's 17 minutes, over the last 18-minutes of the 1st half.
DS is clearly the 3rd best offensive option and an important player on this team. Either due to performance or injuries to TL/Horford, DS will eventually be a starter. I'd prefer if it wasn't due to injuries

2. I'm an EK matchup fan, but didn't care for seeing Kanter enter the game in H1, which was driven by 2BIGZ (don't need to see that units +/- when Tatum, then Brown carried that unit for stretches last night - a perfect example of why +/- is a worthless stat over a SSS).
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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My 2 small IME quibbles last night:
1. IME concentrated Schroder's 17 minutes, over the last 18-minutes of the 1st half.
DS is clearly the 3rd best offensive option and an important player on this team. Either due to performance or injuries to TL/Horford, DS will eventually be a starter. I'd prefer if it wasn't due to injuries
Scal asked Ime about the 2 Bigs lineup and staggering Al's and TL's minutes. As best as I can remember (after all, it was like 12 hours ago), Ime said that he's still committed to starting Al and TL and didn't see the minutes to be an issue since they only play together at the start of the 1st and 3rd quarters.

Obviously that's subject to change without notice but I guess we are going to keep seeing this for at least the near future.
 

joe dokes

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Scal asked Ime about the 2 Bigs lineup and staggering Al's and TL's minutes. As best as I can remember (after all, it was like 12 hours ago), Ime said that he's still committed to starting Al and TL and didn't see the minutes to be an issue since they only play together at the start of the 1st and 3rd quarters.

Obviously that's subject to change without notice but I guess we are going to keep seeing this for at least the near future.
I think he really wants to see TL grow as an NBA center (or sees the vast potential) and maybe thinks that getting out of the blocks with Horford next to him helps that, even though it might be sub-optimal overall?
 

benhogan

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Scal asked Ime about the 2 Bigs lineup and staggering Al's and TL's minutes. As best as I can remember (after all, it was like 12 hours ago), Ime said that he's still committed to starting Al and TL and didn't see the minutes to be an issue since they only play together at the start of the 1st and 3rd quarters.

Obviously that's subject to change without notice but I guess we are going to keep seeing this for at least the near future.
Didn't realize that, good for Scal to ask pre-game.

It might be as simple as, IME really wants a good defensive team to set the tone early?
I can't argue with that. TL or Al are both vastly superior defensive players than Schroder. It just brings 3-4 other "bad" variables into play by forcing those two to start the 1st/3rd quarters.

And if he does think that's the Celtic's best defensive team, I hope he goes situational and substitutes in late/tight games
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Didn't realize that, good for Scal to ask pre-game.

It might be as simple as, IME really wants a good defensive team to set the tone early?
I can't argue that TL or Al are both vastly superior defensive players than Schroder. It just brings 3-4 other "bad" variables into play by forcing those two to start the 1st/3rd quarters.
Yeah, that was my thought as well. If you want to establish your team's identity as a defense-first team, it makes some sense to put the best defense on the floor at the beginning of each half.
 

Cellar-Door

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As an aside... one of my big early season gripes seems to be improving. I've thought the ATO plays have been much better of late.
 

Jimbodandy

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As an aside... one of my big early season gripes seems to be improving. I've thought the ATO plays have been much better of late.
Great callout. They were shit and lately have been pretty good actually. And he seems to do it on a lot of possessions now, not just last minute of game possessions.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Hey Ime, didn't you coach Murray for a few years? Maybe this is something you should have gameplanned. Way too much public criticism of the players and not nearly enough self-criticism for my liking right now.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Hey Ime, didn't you coach Murray for a few years? Maybe this is something you should have gameplanned. Way too much public criticism of the players and not nearly enough self-criticism for my liking right now.
Well, we just had a coach who never called out any players publicly and I don't think people wanted that either.

Ime on the Cs slow starts:

“We knew they were a team that switches everything and we just held the ball and tried to do it by ourselves,” Udoka said. “No ball movement, no penetration for your teammates. In the second quarter, third quarter in the fourth it was night and day from that. So talk about teams that switch everything, it’s not always for you. Get your teammates involved.
“We showed clips at halftime when we did a few times in the first half, and they carried that into the second half. So we came out, looked like everybody’s taking turns trying to get baskets and obviously very slow, sluggish, and stagnant. We talked about it at halftime, it wasn’t really defensively, they had 52 points, but we were just shooting so poorly, that even the open looks we got we missed, but it was a lot of isolation, one-on-one instead of movement.”

More at the link: https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/ime-udoka-calls-out-celtics-selfish-habits-amid-slow-starts-guys-are-trying-to-find-their-rhythm-instead-of-playing-together.html
 

Cesar Crespo

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Hey Ime, didn't you coach Murray for a few years? Maybe this is something you should have gameplanned. Way too much public criticism of the players and not nearly enough self-criticism for my liking right now.
I get it, but he's evolved. He's using "we." That includes him.
 

tbb345

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Well, we just had a coach who never called out any players publicly and I don't think people wanted that either.

Ime on the Cs slow starts:

“We knew they were a team that switches everything and we just held the ball and tried to do it by ourselves,” Udoka said. “No ball movement, no penetration for your teammates. In the second quarter, third quarter in the fourth it was night and day from that. So talk about teams that switch everything, it’s not always for you. Get your teammates involved.
“We showed clips at halftime when we did a few times in the first half, and they carried that into the second half. So we came out, looked like everybody’s taking turns trying to get baskets and obviously very slow, sluggish, and stagnant. We talked about it at halftime, it wasn’t really defensively, they had 52 points, but we were just shooting so poorly, that even the open looks we got we missed, but it was a lot of isolation, one-on-one instead of movement.”

More at the link: https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/ime-udoka-calls-out-celtics-selfish-habits-amid-slow-starts-guys-are-trying-to-find-their-rhythm-instead-of-playing-together.html
Did people really care that Brad didn’t call our players publicly here? I honestly didn’t see much of that here.

There was definitely criticism (including from me) that he never argued with or worked the refs but it doesn’t appear Udoka does that either.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Did people really care that Brad didn’t call our players publicly here? I honestly didn’t see much of that here.

There was definitely criticism (including from me) that he never argued with or worked the refs but it doesn’t appear Udoka does that either.
Yeah, some people complained that Brad didn't hold players accountable and was just too passive in general, not just with the refs.
 

SteveF

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Yeah, some people complained that Brad didn't hold players accountable and was just too passive in general, not just with the refs.
It was reported that Hayward more or less said the same thing to Brad on his way out the door as I recall. (Edit: Well, not publicly via the media, but internally.)

The question I have with Udoka will be answered by how he deals with this offense. Right now it seems like he had a preconceived notion about how an NBA offense should be run and he's now trying to jam square pegs into round holes. If that's the right analysis, how quickly can he move off his priors and adapt the offense to the players he has? And if that's the wrong analysis, can he withstand the pressure and stick to his priors? Can he figure out if, when, what to change?

Does he need to get the ball into Tatum/Browns hands on the move, get them going downhill with an advantage screens and DHOs and give them simpler reads to make for passes? Or does he stick with his priors on the assumption that Tatum/Brown can level up their passing and make the more complex reads in this motion-y offense?

If he chooses wrong, he won't make it past year two.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yeah, some people complained that Brad didn't hold players accountable and was just too passive in general, not just with the refs.
I think there was a difference between holding players accountable 'publicly' and holding players accountable. Brad giving Marcus the green light to fire up any shot, at any time in any game without trying to reign him in, caught a lot of shit around here, and rightfully so. Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember folks saying that Brad should be walking into a presser and opening up on the players, and naming names, which Ime is doing pretty regularly. To me, benching a guy, while a public admonishment to an extent is very different than airing your dirty laundry to the press. Brad did neither, and Ime seems to be doing the latter.

I will agree that Brad needed to work the refs more. I'm curious to see what our FTA for and against look like at the end of the season, because I feel like there has been a lot less griping about the refs in the game threads, than prior seasons, and while it'll never be proven, I think working the refs makes a large difference in the NBA.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Cesar Crespo

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I think there was a difference between holding players accountable 'publicly' and holding players accountable. Brad giving Marcus the green light to fire up any shot, at any time in any game without trying to reign him in, caught a lot of shit around here, and rightfully so. Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember folks saying that Brad should be walking into a presser and opening up on the players, and naming names, which Ime is doing pretty regularly. To me, benching a guy, while a public admonishment to an extent is very different than airing your dirty laundry to the press. Brad did neither, and Ime seems to be doing the latter.

I will agree that Brad needed to work the refs more. I'm curious to see what our FTA for and against look like at the end of the season, because I feel like there has been a lot less griping about the refs in the game threads, than prior seasons, and while it'll never be proven, I think working the refs makes a large difference in the NBA.
Of late, Ime has been using "we" instead of calling out players by name and not including himself in the conversation.

Progress.
 

luckiestman

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Brad was like, “Screw that. I’m going upstairs.”
I’m just sitting her LOL @ the thought of the following sketch. Gordon and Brad hugging, misty eyed, saying their goodbyes:

GH: Coach, you gotta be tougher on us, we need that.

BS: Really?

GH: we need it coach

BS: OK

….
Cut to Coach Stevens at a podium.

Reporter: Brad, what do you think about Gordon Hayward signing with the Hornets?

BS *looks to the side, then gives a wry smile and fixes his gaze on the camera* he says: We all know Gordon Hayward has no heart , so I’m not surprised
 

tbb345

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Of late, Ime has been using "we" instead of calling out players by name and not including himself in the conversation.

Progress.
To be fair, the quote that I believe you are referring to he said “we” after saying that one of Tatum, Smart, Schroeder or another player should be able to guard Dejounte Murray one on one.

So a very small step forward.

To me, the calling out the players is definitely bad but what makes it even worse is that it’s normally followed by or after something that seems very self-congratulatory or implies Udoka has all the answers or provided the answers but the players just didn’t listen.
It’s just bizarre behavior by a first time head coach who isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire himself
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Your eyes are good.

From Jared Weiss' write up in the Athletic which focuses on Tatum's playmaking and the Cs countering the Raps D. Btw, grab the $1 month sub deal if you can. The coverage & clips are great as others here have noted.
Cross-posting from the Analysis thread. According to Jay King, Ime put a wrinkle in the Cs offense in the 2nd half that lead to a ton of open shots. In addition, BOS tried various coverages on FVF and finally found one that worked. Here's another quote from the article:

VanVleet was even better offensively in the first three quarters, as he was hot from deep and had his drive and kick game going. The halftime adjustment was for Smart to top lock him, staying between VanVleet and the ball even when that meant giving him a driving lane out toward the baseline just to make sure he couldn’t get the ball up near the middle of the court.
He beat the coverage initially by continuing to cut and relocate to different spots on the floor after getting rid of the ball, but eventually, Boston was able to snuff him out and held him to one basket as they ran away in the fourth.
“We gave him a steady diet of something in the first half and he just torched it,” Smart said. “We just have to continuously give him different looks. J-Rich did a great job coming in and relieving me off of him after he torched me a couple times and everybody else guarded.”
The half-court defense is consistently adjusting throughout the game to solve whatever problems the opponent is presenting. Sometimes it’s schematic, sometimes it’s personnel. But the design of this roster as a versatile defensive unit is taking shape. The first half showed how it is vulnerable when the offense stagnates or turns it over. But aside from a few moments when Toronto was hitting contested shots or getting second-chance opportunities, the defense worked. It’s just been a long process getting to this point.
“Just imagine doing something for years, and then you come into a job where you went to school to get a degree for this job, and then out of nowhere, something you never studied for or had experience with, they come in and say what they want and it’s supposed to happen overnight,” Smart said. “It’s not gonna happen. It’s gonna take time. You have to learn, you have to adjust.”

So maybe Ime does not a bit about the Xs and Os part of the job.
 

chilidawg

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Listening to Karalis on his Locked on Celtics podcast. His takeaway from the Toronto game (paraphrasing):

Whenever the Celtics do what they did last year, things go poorly (SA game). When they do what Ime wants them too, they go well (Toronto game).
 

chilidawg

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Here's another take on players getting used to Ime's system, from Adam Taylor at Celtics Blog:

So, with 20 games of the season now in the history books, three things have become apparent:
  1. Defense was easier to sell to this unit, and they have adopted their new coach's methods quickly and successfully for the most part.
  2. The Celtics aren’t playing the brand of offense Udoka is preaching.
  3. This roster's bad habits on offense are deeply ingrained and will take time to re-wire.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/11/28/22804808/we-expected-too-much-too-soon-from-ime-udoka-boston-celtics-brad-stevens
 

RorschachsMask

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Bumping this thread because although I have been critical of Ime’s rotations he certainly deserves a shoutout for getting this team to play hard every night.
He has really gotten Smart and Tatum to buy in, on both ends.

Team plays extremely hard, and they try to play the right way offensively for the most part. I’m a sucker for defense first teams, so I’m loving them.
 

joe dokes

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He *can* say nice things:
Jayson Tatum is second in the NBA in minutes (36.5), training only Toronto’s Fred VanVleet. Udoka said he isn’t concerned about tiring Tatum because of his youth and dedication to conditioning. Tatum, 23, is playing similar minutes to last season, when he battled the after-effects of COVID-19.

“He’s a guy that has coped well; he’s finding his rhythm,” Udoka said. “I’ve never seen a guy his age take care of himself the way he does, prepare the way he does. With treatment, getting the shots he needs, the weight room — he’s living in the gym, he takes care of himself, and it’s no coincidence that he’s able to play those high minutes and play at a high level.

“His professionalism is off the charts, especially for a guy his age. I’ve been around for a long time and never seen a guy at that age focus on taking care of himself to the extent that he does.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/06/sports/celtics-hitting-offensive-stride-right-time-difficult-december-rolls/
 

Eddie Jurak

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I wonder if any of that is somewhat in response to that bullshit story about Tatum that was making the rounds.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1472241104426778629



This is an excellent read. Udoka has overcome a ton of obstacles in his life.
Thank you for posting. Its really difficult to square this piece which essentially depicts a person who is singularly obsessed with basketball and is recognized for his coaching skills with the comments of those who feel he is already a bust.

They may ultimately be correct but for me, even 30-odd games into his head coaching career, its hard to take the lineup/timeout/rotational criticisms seriously. Udoka grew up with nothing, obsessively worked on his game as a kid, fought his way into the league and ended up getting recruited to coach in the NBA by Greg Popovich (as a side note, I wonder how many players - stars or not - seek out these roles as their careers wind down. I suspect its a lot).

While nobody is infallible its hard to take some criticisms seriously when they are coming from talk show caller types, many of whom likely topped out at the lowest amateur rungs and have no clue what is actually going on in the locker room. Maybe they do know more than all the NBA lifers who seem to think Udoka is a great fit for the job but it seems incredibly unlikely.

Edit: and to be clear, people can and should be critical of any coach. The question is simply whether they are qualified enough for that opinion to be taken seriously
 

HomeRunBaker

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Nobody is “already a bust” as they will have an opportunity to adjust moving forward. Criticizing their moves up to date isn’t the same as calling someone a bust.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Anyone can criticize anything. We have mediums for that. But forgive those who have a higher bar for subject matter expertise than high school star X decades ago/ regular EEI caller.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Anyone can criticize anything. We have mediums for that. But forgive those who have a higher bar for subject matter expertise than high school star X decades ago/ regular EEI caller.
This is the medium for it. Maybe don't use the medium if you have a higher bar for subject matter.

Also, don't use "people calling him a bust." Why don't you name the posters actually calling him a bust? Or just use a strawman because you are that EEI caller you complain about. Higher bar and all.
 

luckiestman

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Anyone can criticize anything. We have mediums for that. But forgive those who have a higher bar for subject matter expertise than high school star X decades ago/ regular EEI caller.
This kind of post after reading a puff piece is kind of funny. The “subject matter experts” who may exist but don’t fit the narrative don’t make it into the story.
 

benhogan

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This is the medium for it. Maybe don't use the medium if you have a higher bar for subject matter.

Also, don't use "people calling him a bust." Why don't you name the posters actually calling him a bust? Or just use a strawman because you are that EEI caller you complain about. Higher bar and all.
There are no "people" or even one single poster calling IME a "bust" or "calling for his head" or even terribly concerned with the coaching.

Most of the consternation is finding the right players for IME's system

Brad or IME, this team is still a .500 ballclub as we've witnessed for 2 seasons now.

I find the analysis from the mouth-breathing ex-HS jocks around here better than the national NBA/local NBA media and far better than radio call-in
 

128

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This kind of post after reading a puff piece is kind of funny. The “subject matter experts” who may exist but don’t fit the narrative don’t make it into the story.
Not sure that story is a "puff piece." This is not one of the countless articles we see every offseason about how hard Player X has worked and how he's bigger, stronger, faster and smarter than he was the previous season.

It was never meant to be a critique of Udoka's coaching acumen thus far with the C's. It's a look at the road Udoka traveled to reach this point, a journey that he, from all accounts, doesn't readily discuss. I learned a lot about him I didn't know, and for that alone I enjoyed the article. The verdict on him as a head coach won't be reached for a while, but, as others have noted, he's having many of the same issues Stevens had with this core in 2019-20 and 2020-21.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Agreed. It wasn't pure hagiography and instead illuminated Udoka's qualifications.

The part of the article that speaks volumes is that he was noticed as a potential coach even as a bottom rung rotational player. Those are the sorts of people who often get overlooked - having Pop ask him to join his staff is pretty remarkable.