Celtics 2019-2020 depth chart and roster
- Thread starter Ale Xander
- Start date
If we're looking for a shot blocker (not sure we will be Ainge often goes more for all-around defenders) the reasonable options given our budget are: Holmes, Mejri, Udoh and Noel.
Yeah. I have no idea how an athletic 7 footer doesn't block more shots. He basically doesn't commit many fouls either (3.7 per 36 minutes). Does he just wander out of the paint and not challenge anyone?
whatever BIG the Celtics land with the MLE RE can be upgraded ~ Dec.15th (I think that's the date)
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Of those, I like Mejri or - and I know this is going to strike some people as a bad idea - Noel. The latter had a sneaky decent season for OKC this year and is really pretty good on both ends of the floor. Mejri gives you a bit more of a body down low but will get torched on the perimeter whereas Noel can, at least in spurts, hang with smaller players away from the paint.
Neither of these guys will can shoot FTs all that well and they clearly have their warts (hence the price tag) but the Celtics could do far worse than one or the other.
Noel had an efficient season in limited minutes w/OKC. Celtics would be a great chance at a high profile starting gig.
Noel, Theis, Poirier, TL would be serviceable to start the season.
I'll be skeptical if Brad gets cute and starts playing Grant Williams at the 5
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html
Noel, Theis, Poirier, TL would be serviceable to start the season.
I'll be skeptical if Brad gets cute and starts playing Grant Williams at the 5
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html
Poirier and Noel are likely either/or options, neither is coming for the minimum.
Poirier averaged 9.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.2 blocks and 0.7 steals per game in 21.2 minutes per game in 2018-19 while shooting 61.4 percent from the field.
I'd rather have Noel, if that's the case.
Our recent Euro additions: Theis, Larkin, Wannamaker all came cheap
We'll be able to find a BIG at the minimum. Richaun Holmes?
Of note, that's Euroleague so those numbers are very good, in fact he was the best rebounder in Euroleague.
It's possible Poirier would take the minimum, but there has been interest from multiple teams both in the NBA and from the top European teams, so he'll probably have decent offers to chose from.
Edit- Holmes is gonna get at least the room exception from what the Kings guys are saying. Minimum guys,.... probably someone unexpected falls, but otherwise.... Udoh probably, maybe Chriss and Bender, maybe koufos
Here are some estimates on NBA FA salaries
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/27076926/projecting-starting-salary-every-nba-free-agent
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/27076926/projecting-starting-salary-every-nba-free-agent
I'm a huge fan of Noel's talent--I imagine if the team doesn't sign him (and he goes cheap somewhere) it means they think he's too much of a headcase. I could definitely get on board though.
I'm a huge Horford fan, but I think that the defensive end is where they'll miss him more. If Hayward is healthy, him+Kemba is plenty to build the base of a threatening NBA offense around. Hell, Kemba + trash was the #11 offense in the league last year. Because of this, I'd prefer the Celtics go in the direction of an athletic, defensive big, and be willing to sacrifice on the offensive end some at that position.
One thing in our favor: Boston ought to look good for any bigs who are interested in playing time with good players, since there is plenty of opportunity here.
So akin to Rozier, his role influences his performance? That might very well be. However, the key, as mentioned above, may be Noel's willingess to play within CBS' schemes - both on offense and defense.
For me, what CBS did with Turner a few years ago was amazing. Turner became more efficient, his assists went up, he did well playing more within a system that allowed for his talents. Perhaps Noel will be the same way. If his head is screwed on correctly and he has decided that he needs to be part of a team, then CBS will put his talents to good use.
For me, what CBS did with Turner a few years ago was amazing. Turner became more efficient, his assists went up, he did well playing more within a system that allowed for his talents. Perhaps Noel will be the same way. If his head is screwed on correctly and he has decided that he needs to be part of a team, then CBS will put his talents to good use.
Noel hasn't changed much, but they're bargain basement hunting here. The benefit of course is that the center market is extremely saturated, so you can probably get a quality player for the room exception, in a way you really cannot at any other position.
The starting center for the next contending Celtics team is not someone they're going to acquire for the room exception obviously. It's a patchwork until Robert Williams shows he's ready, or someone else is else is acquired.
The starting center for the next contending Celtics team is not someone they're going to acquire for the room exception obviously. It's a patchwork until Robert Williams shows he's ready, or someone else is else is acquired.
Do you have any feelings about Williams, one way or another? Obviously young raw bigs are generally projects regardless.
I know that cheap bigs will be easy to find once FA frenzy dies down, and I know relying on rookies to produce is a fools' errand, but I do wonder if the draft plays out any differently if it's held post free agency. Bitazde just turned 19, but he did lead the Adriatic League in blocks, playing against grown men, and he played well in Euroleague as well. Then there's the cluster of late firsts/early second bigs like Fernando, Kabengele (they're physically ready, at least), Gafford, and Claxton. I wonder if Ainge gives them a look over Carsen if he knows he has Kemba. I don't really have a problem with swinging on Romeo's upside, just a nagging worry that if he doesn't get his shot right, his arc is closer to James Young than Jaylen Brown while Bitazde's doing Nurkic impressions.
Unless Danny's master plan all along with Romeo was to bet that a certain big-laden Eastern Conference team run by his buddy wouldn't be able to resist an offer centered around the homegrown kid. (I kid, but hey, the last IU guy with questions about his shot that they traded for worked out pretty well for them, until the injury)
Unless Danny's master plan all along with Romeo was to bet that a certain big-laden Eastern Conference team run by his buddy wouldn't be able to resist an offer centered around the homegrown kid. (I kid, but hey, the last IU guy with questions about his shot that they traded for worked out pretty well for them, until the injury)
Now we're talking. But why stop there? Indiana kids. Langford, Edwards, Hayward. Draft picks.
Everything Pacer Nation needs: Scoring, distribution, wings, bench, some cap used on a former All-Star, future picks/trade currency, cap room left to fill out the roster, ticket price/sales increase.
Oladipo, Hayward, Thad Young, Sabonis & Rubio.
bench: Warren, McDermott, Leaf, Bitazde, Langford, Edwards
Maybe the Pacers feel that Oladipo, Turner, & Hayward could be their Big 3? That turns into the ultimate deal (Hayward for Sabonis) because at that point Danny is bringing Al Horford back. And the Celtics turn into EC favorites.
If Indy is super into Hayward, lots of good stuff becomes possible. I’m a bit skeptical, but I can see them wondering where else they get good value for Sabonis.
I think I read in the Lakers thread that Noel is a Klutch client. Maybe his hometown team has some pull but much more likely he plays in purple and gold next year I would think.
I have basically talked myself into Williams being Draymond Green, but realistically he seems too small to play even a smallball five I think. He has great length for his height (6'11" wingspan), but that ends up being a couple inches short of like Green. The more I read about him, the more I think he has real upside rather than being a Jared Sullinger 2.0 guy however. Much like Green, he needs to work on his body a lot to get there, but he has basketball IQ you can't teach, and a lot of statistical indicators too.
But probably not a long-run center.
Unless Klutch is gonna top out at like 12 clients they're going to have to sign with other teams sooner or later.
My impression was that his body is way further along than Green’s was? Williams was off the charts relative to other prospects in terms of strength, iirc.
He'd get a few dollars more in RE ($4.8M vs $1.8M vet min) from the Celtics and a starting gig. He'd go from 13-14mpg to 18-20mpg with the Celtics
Can Lakers offer a starting spot, they need a PG and shooter around Kuzma/AD/LBJ, right?
He's apparently super strong, but has some excess weight on him still from what I've seen. I suspect he needs to lose that to get the mobility he's going to need.
Yeah, he can’t start for the Lakers. They already have 3 guys who play 4/5 as it is.
it appears Grant has the work ethic and intelligence to get that done.
I see Williams near term future as a bench, lunchpail 4 next to a 5 that can efficiently launch 3s (Theis, Kornet, Turner
)His FT shooting leads me to believe he can start eventually hitting 3s
Misinterpreted the ambiguous reference---much more reasonable to compare Sullinger/Green to Grant than TL!
I do think Grant has potenital as a big, but agree the size is an issue for playing center...both as to rebounding and rim protection. The hope would be great position D is part of the story, but there just aren't Cs that size very often
I do think Grant has potenital as a big, but agree the size is an issue for playing center...both as to rebounding and rim protection. The hope would be great position D is part of the story, but there just aren't Cs that size very often
Can we trade Rozier + something to Charlotte for Kemba and keep Horford?
I read two reports on twitter saying door was ajar for Horford return but I don’t see how.
I read two reports on twitter saying door was ajar for Horford return but I don’t see how.
I've always liked O'Quinn. Another guy, who could get left behind, looking for a starting gig: DeAndre Jordan.
for vet min and 5 depth old friend, Tyler Zeller could be available
So the three wings all better make huge jumps if we're replacing Kyrie, Horford, Baynes, and Morris with Kemba, a couple of bargain basement bigs, and a passel of rookies.
I like Noel as a rim runner and protector. If there is some allure to him playing, and starting, in his hometown, that's the guy the Celtics should target. BTW, Klutch can't do any worse than his last agent, who cost him at least $55 million by turning down a $70 million deal a few seasons ago.
I like Noel as a rim runner and protector. If there is some allure to him playing, and starting, in his hometown, that's the guy the Celtics should target. BTW, Klutch can't do any worse than his last agent, who cost him at least $55 million by turning down a $70 million deal a few seasons ago.
i like him as a backup - where his strength helps him keep backup bigs from getting too close to the rim. I suspect they will still need to pick and choose his spots, scatter bug type backup ball handlers will pick him apart on the PNR until he increases his lateral mobilityit appears Grant has the work ethic and intelligence to get that done.
I see Williams near term future as a bench, lunchpail 4 next to a 5 that can efficiently launch 3s (Theis, Kornet, Turner
His FT shooting leads me to believe he can start eventually hitting 3s
Nerlens Noel is not very good at basketball. Want nothing to do with him as a starter for this team.
So for the Green comparison.... here is a table of Williams vs. Green from their combine (I added a few physically similar comps as well in Tobias Harris, Kemneth Faried and Trevor Booker)
General takeaway, Williams has an unimpressive wingspan and his vertical isn't great. He's in way better shape than Draymond (good and bad, Draymond probably gained some agility in losing bodyfat), and he's the most agile of the bunch and 2nd strongest.
| Player | POS | Body Fat | Hand L | Hand W | Heigh w/o | Height w. | Reach | Weight | Wingspan | Lane Agil | Shuttle | 3/4 sprint | vert. Stand | Max Vert | Bench |
| Grant Williams | PF | 5.40% | 9 | 10.5 | 6' 5.75'' | 6' 7.5'' | 8' 8.5'' | 240.2 | 6' 9.75'' | 10.83 | 3.27 | 3.33 | 26 | 31.5 | 20 |
| Draymond Green | PF-SF | 11.30% | 9 | 9.5 | 6' 5.75'' | 6' 7.5'' | 8' 9'' | 235.6 | 7' 1.25'' | 11.01 | - | 3.4 | 28 | 33 | 9 |
| Kenneth Faried | PF | 6.30% | 8.5 | 10.25 | 6' 6'' | 6' 7.5'' | 9' 0'' | 224.6 | 7' 0'' | 11.35 | - | 3.26 | 30.5 | 35 | 16 |
| Tobias Harris | SF-PF | 8.40% | 8.75 | 9 | 6' 6.5'' | 6' 7.75'' | 8' 7.5'' | 222.8 | 6' 11'' | 10.96 | - | 3.17 | 31.5 | 37.5 | 12 |
| Trevor Booker | PF | 7.30% | 9 | 9.5 | 6' 6.25'' | 6' 7.5'' | 8' 10'' | 235.8 | 6' 9.75'' | 11.15 | - | 3.1 | 31 | 36 | 22 |
General takeaway, Williams has an unimpressive wingspan and his vertical isn't great. He's in way better shape than Draymond (good and bad, Draymond probably gained some agility in losing bodyfat), and he's the most agile of the bunch and 2nd strongest.
This is a less impressive wingspan than I'd seen reported elsewhere, although probably more reliable. This probably limits his upside materially. I remain bullish on him as a prospect however.
Looks good to me. But yeah, getting on a professional diet and workout regimen will knock off anything left to knock off.
I agree he has his flaws and signing back in Boston may not be the best thing for Noel the person. That said, the guy had a good season on both ends of the floor for the Thunder this past season and is just 25 so its possible that he has finally figured some things out like many bigs who can take longer to develop. Some people here are keen on a guy like Dewayne Dedmon and the reality is, adjusting for their usage (so using per 100 possessions for example), Noel had the better season as a rebounder, shot-blocker and in terms of scoring efficiency.
I agree he isn't anyone's first choice as a big but I think the C's/Stevens can build upon the his progress he displayed in some sub-optimal situations before this past season, he could be pretty effective for them in certain situations and for relatively cheap.
I've heard meetings with Russell, Kawhi, Seth Curry, Kanter, Danny Green, and Beverley (not to mention the Klutch clients that don't require a Laker meeting)......they are pretty much doing their due diligence to have back up plans to the backup plan to the backup plan. Could their be a better relatively cheap option for the Lakers than Curry? That's a win-win signing as anticipated success in this ideal role could propel him to Redick level contract status down the road.
Yeah, it looks to my eye like there's room for him to drop weight, with a corresponding bump in quickness, hopefully. He’s really going to have to change his game in the NBA, as undersized low-post PFs aren't really a thing anymore. Fortunately, he does have some of the hallmarks of a guy who can adapt- excellent passer, excellent help defender, good shooting peripherals, decent steal rate, great IQ, strength and work ethic. The improvements he can make with lateral movement on defense, and shooting the three on offense will go a long way towards determining his ceiling. I don't expect him to be a perennial DPOY candidate like Dray, but if he can get 80% there, while being nearly as good a passer and a better shooter who doesn’t kick people in the nuts every couple of weeks, that's a helluva complimentary player. If he shoots, I think he'll eventually thrive playing the screen man (again, like Draymond) with Kemba as our Steph. I'd be very surprised if he defends the rim like Draymond does, but it's interesting that his block rate was better than Dray's in college, at least, despite the substantial wingspan difference.
Plus, by all accounts he's an awesome dude who'll use his level 30 charisma to keep his teammates playing Settlers of Catan in their hotel instead of out clubbing in South Beach during those long road trips.
Dray and he have about the same standing reach, despite the big wingspan difference, which might be where those blocks are coming from. Not sure how that works relative to wingspan--guess he has a shorter neck than Dray?
Legs could use some work. Grant is said to be a hard worker. I'm guessing he thrives on professional training, dieting, skills training, etc. Looking forward to seeing his rookie year.Looks good to me. But yeah, getting on a professional diet and workout regimen will knock off anything left to knock off.