Celtics 2019-2020 depth chart and roster

Koufax

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Four years for that kind of money? Danny should be ashamed of himself. Really great move though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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thanks. somehow missed it

Is it the ping pong paddle photo? I remember reading about his left thumb being too involved in his shot and needed some work on his mechanics.

But that's different than a "hitch", which is the word Brad used?
There's a breakdown in post #438; here's a link I think:
 

DJnVa

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thanks. somehow missed it

Is it the ping pong paddle photo? I remember reading about his left thumb being too involved in his shot and needed some work on his mechanics.

But that's different than a "hitch", which is the word Brad used?
Dakich use hitch. Stevens likely just knew what he was talking about and answered.
 

benhogan

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Dakich use hitch. Stevens likely just knew what he was talking about and answered.
yea your right, Dakich was quoting Romeo Langford who said "he has to work on a hitch with his shot". Surprised Brad didn't push back and say it's just an injury to his thumb. I'm probably being oversensitive (to the Markelle situation) but I don't like what I'm hearing in this interview in regards to Romeo at all (4:10-7). The subtle comments being dropped here make me queasy...YMMV...anyways thought Brad opened up a lot

 
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lexrageorge

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Not sure if this bump belongs in this thread or the training camp thread, but as it seemed more roster-related, I decided to put it here. With one preseason game under the team's belt, just thought I would speculate on what the depth chart will look to start the regular season. Obviously, this can all change significantly after 12/15 or 1/15 due to trades:

Definite, no doubt starters:
- Kemba
- Tatum

Likely starters:
- Hayward
- Brown
- Kanter

Sixth man:
- Smart

Comments: Probably no real surprises. It's possible Smart could grab a starters role either based on matchups or on how Brown performs. Kanter could be the most vulnerable if Stevens was to find a defense-first player on his roster to play the 5 as a starter, but not sure he's going to find that. Ainge did state that team defense is his #1 concern with the loss of Horford and Baynes. Hayward should be in the "no doubt" category, but wanted to hedge my bets just in case.

Next 3:
- Poirier
- Theis
- Wanamaker

Comments: It gets tricky here. In some ways, Poirier and Theis are battling for the same position, but it's also the position of greatest need. And probably the one area that will likely change between now and April. Wanamaker is the backup PG.

Deep Rotation (aka, 10-12):
- Robert Williams
- Ojeleye
- Edwards

Comments: Williams is going to have to earn his minutes on the defensive end, but needs to show improvement to break to the next level. If he does, he could displace Theis or Poirier (trades after 12/15 could change all of this, of course). Ojeleye is a known quantity, but needs to live with a limited role. Edwards is probably the most intriguing guy here, as teams still need shooters coming off the bench to light the scoreboard when needed; Stevens would just need to find the right rotation around him.

Victory Cigars and Red Claws (13-15):
- Grant Williams
- Langford
- Green

Comments: Grant Williams is the one most likely to crack the next level, as either him or even Green could displace Ojeleye.

Two-way players:
- Waters
- Fall

Comments: They'll have to convert Fall's contract, but, despite the claims of the naysayers, he's shown he should at least be considered for that spot.

Thanks for coming to camp:
- Strus (2-way)
- Maten
- Gates

Comments: Only true "cut" is Strus, but not convinced that's such a big deal.
 

Big John

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Grant Williams is a better player than Ojeleye. Williams has Ryan Gomes' body but Don Nelson's brain. He's light years ahead of Ojeleye as an offensive player and not that far behind defensively.

I don't see Wanamaker getting minutes ahead of either Edwards or Waters. Even if Wanamaker is slightly better, what's the point of playing him instead of the rookies, especially since a team needing Wanamaker in the rotation is probably going nowhere.

And I expect Theis to be the starting center. He's by far the best defender in the group and he can make a trey now and then. I think Kanter is much more effective coming off the bench against the other team's second unit, where he can collect more garbage points. That's his strength.
 

lovegtm

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Grant Williams is going to play a lot imo, just because he’s smart defensively. I think he’ll take most of Ojeleye’s minutes, and possibly even a lot of center movements on 2nd units if Brad gets fed up with the other guys.

They’re already experimenting with Kanter against subs, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a committee of Theis and Poirier replace him quickly on the starting 5. He’s just such a defensive liability.
 

benhogan

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Grant Williams is a better player than Ojeleye. Williams has Ryan Gomes' body but Don Nelson's brain. He's light years ahead of Ojeleye as an offensive player and not that far behind defensively.

I don't see Wanamaker getting minutes ahead of either Edwards or Waters. Even if Wanamaker is slightly better, what's the point of playing him instead of the rookies, especially since a team needing Wanamaker in the rotation is probably going nowhere.

And I expect Theis to be the starting center. He's by far the best defender in the group and he can make a trey now and then. I think Kanter is much more effective coming off the bench against the other team's second unit, where he can collect more garbage points. That's his strength.
Big John taking it up a notch this season. There is a lot right here.

I'll further add that while minutes are earned, the team needs to really be thinking about the years beyond this one. Romeo, Edwards and Grant are the future of a deep team, they need a long leash.
 

lovegtm

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Big John taking it up a notch this season. There is a lot right here.

I'll further add that while minutes are earned, the team needs to really be thinking about the years beyond this one. Romeo, Edwards and Grant are the future of a deep team, they need a long leash.
Grant and Edwards are going to get minutes just because they fill positions of need (shooter to pair with Smart on bench, 4/small 5).

Romeo is not gonna play a ton barring injury. Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward all are blocking him.
 

lexrageorge

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Big John taking it up a notch this season. There is a lot right here.

I'll further add that while minutes are earned, the team needs to really be thinking about the years beyond this one. Romeo, Edwards and Grant are the future of a deep team, they need a long leash.
While not strictly in "win now" mode, Stevens' priority, at least early in the season, will be to win games. The conference is somewhat open this season, and Ainge does have assets to trade if the early season looks promising.

Second priority for Ainge will be to see what the team has with Tatum, and, to a lesser extent, Brown, as there are decisions to make with both next summer.

Getting playing time for the rookies will be a nice luxury, and in the cases of Edwards and possibly G. Williams could be consistent with the primary goal due to the roles they fill. But I don't see either Ainge or Stevens really stressing about Langford's playing time this season.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah they will give minutes to guys in order to figure out what they have. They don't need to do that with Romeo. They already know that he's not ready.

Grant and Edwards will get minutes, and so will Robert.

When Romeo gets a cameo, he'll need to walk on water in order to make an impression. Even then he might not get minutes.
 

Big John

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I'm not advocating a rebuild, or force feeding the rookies. But if two players are roughly equal, you might as well play the young one.

I've been a big supporter of Semi Ojeleye but he's the same player as he was two years ago. He lifts weights like crazy but he still can't shoot and his BBIQ on offense is miniscule.
 

benhogan

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Yeah they will give minutes to guys in order to figure out what they have. They don't need to do that with Romeo. They already know that he's not ready.

Grant and Edwards will get minutes, and so will Robert.

When Romeo gets a cameo, he'll need to walk on water in order to make an impression. Even then he might not get minutes.
I realize he missed Vegas and pre-season game 1, but there is a reason Romeo Langford was a lottery pick.

Before his injury last year he was a top 5 pick. I'd like to see what we have in him in 10mpg to start the season. He doesn't need to "walk on water initially", good defense, aggressive offensive moves to the rim.

If Romeo is capable of being wing depth it (1) may give Danny flexibility at the trade deadline & (2) go into Jaylen Brown's Brinks truck equation next summer.

Judging him before he plays a preseason or Oct/Nov game is a hair premature.
 

Jimbodandy

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I realize he missed Vegas and pre-season game 1, but there is a reason Romeo Langford was a lottery pick.

Before his injury last year he was a top 5 pick. I'd like to see what we have in him in 10mpg to start the season. He doesn't need to "walk on water initially", good defense, aggressive offensive moves to the rim.

If Romeo is capable of being wing depth it (1) may give Danny flexibility at the trade deadline & (2) go into Jaylen Brown's Brinks truck equation next summer.

Judging him before he plays a preseason or Oct/Nov game is a hair premature.
He went high because he has a high ceiling. That is not in dispute. I have no beef with the guy or the pick.

He's just miles away. He's young. He lost school time and first offseason prep time to injury. There's almost no scenario where he can pick up the defensive rotations enough where Brad doesn't want to drown him. Nevermind the broken shot and a crapload of wings in front of him. And Brad needs to see the wings in front of him (and Danny) for decisionmaking reasons, as you noted.

The worst thing that Brad could do for the Celtics and Romeo would be to give him 10 minutes a game, IMO.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Grant Williams is a better player than Ojeleye. Williams has Ryan Gomes' body but Don Nelson's brain. He's light years ahead of Ojeleye as an offensive player and not that far behind defensively.

I don't see Wanamaker getting minutes ahead of either Edwards or Waters. Even if Wanamaker is slightly better, what's the point of playing him instead of the rookies, especially since a team needing Wanamaker in the rotation is probably going nowhere.

And I expect Theis to be the starting center. He's by far the best defender in the group and he can make a trey now and then. I think Kanter is much more effective coming off the bench against the other team's second unit, where he can collect more garbage points. That's his strength.
I actually like Ojeleye quite a bit, but he is what he is: a 3-D role player who has no real offense other than open threes when they are falling.

I'd like to see Grant and Edwards getting time, maybe Edwards as part of a bench unit with Smart when Walker is out.
 

BigSoxFan

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He went high because he has a high ceiling. That is not in dispute. I have no beef with the guy or the pick.

He's just miles away. He's young. He lost school time and first offseason prep time to injury. There's almost no scenario where he can pick up the defensive rotations enough where Brad doesn't want to drown him. Nevermind the broken shot and a crapload of wings in front of him. And Brad needs to see the wings in front of him (and Danny) for decisionmaking reasons, as you noted.

The worst thing that Brad could do for the Celtics and Romeo would be to give him 10 minutes a game, IMO.
Yeah, I like Romeo’s potential but this is going to be a redshirt year for him unless we suffer a lot of injuries.
 

Big John

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I actually like Ojeleye quite a bit, but he is what he is: a 3-D role player who has no real offense other than open threes when they are falling.
I liked him for the same reasons, but I'm moving on. He shot 32% from beyond the arc in his rookie year, and 31.5% last year. When were the open threes falling?

In fairness to Ojeleye his minutes were down last year because of Hayward's return, but it was the same old story against Charlotte. You keep waiting for him to have a breakout game but it never comes. The only reason to keep him on the roster is to guard Giannis.
 

JakeRae

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I actually like Ojeleye quite a bit, but he is what he is: a 3-D role player who has no real offense other than open threes when they are falling.

I'd like to see Grant and Edwards getting time, maybe Edwards as part of a bench unit with Smart when Walker is out.
I would disagree with this assessment. Ojeleye is not a good defender. He is a good on-ball defender on the perimeter against guys who don’t shoot well. That’s an incredibly limited and not all that useful skill set. Otherwise, he’s an ok defender who contributes nothing on offense.
 

mcpickl

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Grant and Edwards are going to get minutes just because they fill positions of need (shooter to pair with Smart on bench, 4/small 5).

Romeo is not gonna play a ton barring injury. Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward all are blocking him.
I agree with all of this.

Grant Williams will likely be in the rotation, he kinda needs to be filling the spot of a guy between a wing and a center.

Carsen Edwards is probably their tenth man, playing in the backcourt with Smart and rarely/never with Kemba.

I'd guess Romeo has a rookie year similar to Rozier, and plays more G League minutes than NBA minutes.
 

lovegtm

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And minimizes some of Kanter's defensive issues, not going against starters all the time.
Yeah I mean at that point you're talking about Greg Monroe+. Can't start in today's NBA, but worth it as $5M of ballast and can be a plus against backups sometimes.
 

Reverend

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I understand the issues with respect to injuries and playing time, but Romeo seems to be the least hyped top draft choice I can remember across Boston sports.

Any thoughts why?

Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I understand the issues with respect to injuries and playing time, but Romeo seems to be the least hyped top draft choice I can remember across Boston sports.

Any thoughts why?

Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
I think that’s part of it, the other part being that he’s going to be a bit of a project (needs to work on his shooting form, etc.), so his impact won’t be as great from the start, despite the high upside.
 

chilidawg

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I understand the issues with respect to injuries and playing time, but Romeo seems to be the least hyped top draft choice I can remember across Boston sports.

Any thoughts why?

Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
For me, I wasn't that excited about the pick to begin with. Then there's been considerable buzz about Williams, Edwards and of course Tacko, all of whom are pretty interesting prospects. I'm hoping that the lack of attention is good for Romeo, keeping the pressure off. That I haven't ever seen him play doesn't help. I'd be surprised if he contributes more than Edwards or Williams this year.
 

NomarsFool

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Exactly. The other picks are just far more interesting. I was pretty disappointed with the pick, as I saw a guy who in a couple years might be as good as Jaylen Brown is today. The other tough issue is that we all knew how few bigs the Celtics have, and I for one would have rather seen a big drafted in that spot. When you add in the fact that he missed Vegas (while other rookies made big names for themselves) and hasn't played, means he is no doubt the forgotten rookie (for now).
 

benhogan

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I understand the issues with respect to injuries and playing time, but Romeo seems to be the least hyped top draft choice I can remember across Boston sports.

Any thoughts why?

Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
I think this nails it. He's been injured this Summer and the other more seasoned rookies have played well.

No one, including myself, knows how he will play or how much Brad will play him. Recency bias is strong after Vegas and 1 pre-season game.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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He's just such a Danny pick, too. Tweener guard/wing with a unique set of skills but enough question marks (SG that can't shoot) to make you question where his ceiling is.
 

Jimbodandy

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He was also the 14th pick. If he were the 5th pick, it would be different.

And Ben is right that there's some recency bias. But if we hadn't gotten a taste of the other three, we'd just have low expectations for all four.
 

benhogan

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I'm guilty of the Vegas recency bias & also super hyped about Arson, Grant, Tacko & Tre.
I see the C's as an EC 4 (at best 3) seed this year, but with the potential to take it to the next level in 2020-21. I'd like the rope to be long with the kids this season.

I'm willing to sacrifice a few extra minutes in games this season for future years and want a little fun/excitement after last season's migraine.

Plus being from Indiana, I can't imagine Romeo won't see plenty of court time...
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I understand the issues with respect to injuries and playing time, but Romeo seems to be the least hyped top draft choice I can remember across Boston sports.

Any thoughts why?

Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
Romeo, I think, is really really good at playing basketball. Which would have made him a great pick 25 years ago. However, as the NBA turns into more of a 3P shooting contest, his skill set is less valuable, well at least as of right now.
 

nighthob

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Is it just out of sight, out of mind, especially with all the other story lines sucking all the oxygen? Or is there something more?
Basically this. The whole wild & crazy free agent season, followed by the Celtic-powered World Cup team and the anticipation of the post Horford/Irving team has driven everything else to the periphery. And it’s probably for the best for Langford.
 

Big John

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He's just such a Danny pick, too. Tweener guard/wing with a unique set of skills but enough question marks (SG that can't shoot) to make you question where his ceiling is.
My sense is that he was just as much a Stevens pick. How could he pass on Indiana's Mr. Basketball?
 

TiredParent

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Regarding the Romeo pick, Tyler Herro was interviewed on one of the Dan Le Batard adjacent podcast and casually mentioned that he did not expect to be picked by Miami. He was told by his agent that Miami was not picking him, and he was going to be picked at 14. He was only aware of Miami's interest after the 12th pick was announced.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That's good news. Have to believe Theis has the inside edge, since he can also shoot 3s and help spread the floor.
TL started the opener before he was injured. It will be interesting to see how Brad utilizes this role but bringing Kanter in to provide offense mid-way through the 1st period is probably the best way to optimize his production. It seems like we are going to be going small almost exclusively and REALLY small at times as well.
 

benhogan

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TL started the opener before he was injured. It will be interesting to see how Brad utilizes this role but bringing Kanter in to provide offense mid-way through the 1st period is probably the best way to optimize his production. It seems like we are going to be going small almost exclusively and REALLY small at times as well.
Matching up Kanter ~15-20mpg against the opponents' 2nd unit feels like the best way to limit his defensive shortcomings. It also lets Enis be a top offensive option instead of being the 5th offensive option with the first unit.

Oh yea, Brad loves himself some small ball. Let's see how it works against some monster lineups out there like Milwaukee, Philly, Toronto, Indiana. We should be able to take advantage of Al Horford playing the perimeter, right?;)

Where have you been hiding? I miss those HRB/Hogan purse fights:redwine:
 

JakeRae

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TL started the opener before he was injured. It will be interesting to see how Brad utilizes this role but bringing Kanter in to provide offense mid-way through the 1st period is probably the best way to optimize his production. It seems like we are going to be going small almost exclusively and REALLY small at times as well.
I think we’re likely to close with Smart plus our starting 1-4 if it works. However, I would expect us to play most of the game outside of the last 5-8 minutes with a traditional big at the 5. We will probably be almost exclusively small at the 4.

Note: I am considering Theis to be a traditional big.
 

lexrageorge

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OK, with 3 preseason games under the team's belt, it's time to restructure my list. I know Stevens has cautioned against using his current rotations as a strict guideline, but there are some things that have become more obvious over the past week or so.

Definite, no doubt starters:
- Kemba
- Tatum
- Hayward
- Brown
- Theis

Sixth man:
- Smart

Comments: Theis takes over for Kanter. Stevens has said that he wants Kanter playing with the second unit to start the season, where his defense will be less of a liability and his offense and rebounding may be more of an advantage. Tatum, Brown, and Hayward have had a solid exhibition season, IMO.

Second unit:
- Kanter
- Poirier/R. Williams
- Edwards

Comments: I think Poirier and R. Williams will be fighting for the same slot in the rotation to some extent, but there will be matchup dependencies that will dictate who gets the share of the playing time. I wouldn't be surprised to see Edwards paired with someone like Smart or Hayward in the backcourt to help mask his defense when the 2nd unit is on the floor, but his spot could be occupied by others.

Deep Rotation (aka, 10-12):
- Robert Williams/Poirier
- Ojeleye
- Grant Williams

Comments: No change other than bumping up G. Williams.

Victory Cigars and Red Claws (13-15):
- Langford
- Green
- Strus

Comments: I'm going against conventional wisdom and predicting both Green and Strus make the team. I believe any of them can still be assigned to Maine on a temporary basis.

Two-way players:
- Waters
- Fall

Comments: With Fall's contract now officially a 2-way, it's clear the Celtics do not want to lose him.

Thanks for coming to camp:
- Wannamaker
- Maten
- Gates

Comments: I fail to see what Wannamaker brings to this particular team. Yes, they would have to eat his $1.4M cap hit, but I think both Strus and Green are more valuable as either development players or potential trade fodder. Ballast, shhmallast.....
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Comments: I fail to see what Wannamaker brings to this particular team. Yes, they would have to eat his $1.4M cap hit, but I think both Strus and Green are more valuable as either development players or potential trade fodder. Ballast, shhmallast.....
Brad can run a team; he's a bit bigger so IMO he plays good defense on most PGs, and he shot 41% from 3P. He's likely insurance if Marcus or Kemba go down (god forbid!).

In today's NBA, I think I'd rather take the shooter than the defender, but if it were up to me, I would have put Green into games a bit earlier to see if his defense translates against NBA starters, rather than the bench guys.
 

Jimbodandy

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Brad can run a team; he's a bit bigger so IMO he plays good defense on most PGs, and he shot 41% from 3P. He's likely insurance if Marcus or Kemba go down (god forbid!).

In today's NBA, I think I'd rather take the shooter than the defender, but if it were up to me, I would have put Green into games a bit earlier to see if his defense translates against NBA starters, rather than the bench guys.
I've been on team Waters for a while now. He's a better player than Wanamaker right now.

That said, Waters getting big minutes on Maine while Wanamaker fills the deep PG role in Boston won't be the worst thing in the world. If the former blows away Maine and must be called up, a decision on the latter can be made then. Plus who knows what else DA has up his sleeve.