Celtics 20-21 Roster Construction

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
4,358
I know it's of course super early, but I think it's interesting to think about who the Celtics should be looking at for playing time over the rest of this season, as they will have some interesting decisions to make.

In the upcoming draft, the Celtics have:

Our own pick, call it #29 or so :)
Milwaukee's pick - top 7 protected, call it #28 or so
Memphis pick - top 6 protected, but looking a lot like it will convey

We also get the poorer of NY or BKN's 2nd rounder (which could be a decent pick, but likely not much room on the roster for another rookie)
Charlotte gets our 2nd rounder

There's a decent chance Ainge is able to trade ours or Milwaukee's pick for a future 1st. But, we're still likely trying to do something with 2 first rounders and a potential 2nd rounder (which could be a 2-way player). So, let's talk about fitting in 2 more players. Of course, if we're also adding in Waters or Fall, you need additional roster space.

Who goes from the current 15 man roster?

Javonte Green? He does some fun things in the open floor.
Vincent Poirier? Almost a complete non-entity, but the team is so desperate for bigs. Probably depends if they draft a big. He does have a guaranteed contract for next season.
Carsen Edwards? Seems like his stock has been falling as of late. We see other guys getting more minutes than he has been. But, could just be a fluke.
Brad Wannamaker? I feel like he has solidified his place on the team with his play so far this year.
Semi? Does seem to still be getting semi-regular rotation minutes this year, so probably safe.
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,809
We need more facts to have this discussion. Celtics contracts.

Highly unlikely to be going anywhere (massively attractive players/contracts for one reason or another):
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Kemba Walker
Marcus Smart
Daniel Theis (if he's on the roster in July his last year is guaranteed for $5M which is attractive even in a depth role -- there's curerently no good deal out there)

Almost certainly returning but could be traded in the event the Celtics consolidate (cheap role players with upside under contract):
Romeo Langford ($3.6M, multiple years)
Grant Williams ($2.5M, multiple years)
Tremont Waters (no guaranteed contract next year but I assume since he was drafted the Celtics have a lot of control here)
Carsen Edwards ($1.5M, multiple years)
Time Lord ($2M, multiple years)

It's up to him (player option):
Gordon Hayward ($34M 2020/21; the real wild card in the whole discussion)
Enes Kanter ($5M 2020/21; he's very much at risk to be traded if he picks up his option so it's probably best he declines, gets more money, and controls his future)

Celtics have a decision to make:
Semi Ojeleye -- $1.7M team option for 2020/21
Javontae Green -- $1.5M team option for 2020/21
Vincent Poirier -- $2.6M guaranteed for 2020/21

UFAs
Brad Wannamaker
Tacko Fall -- I don't know how these 2 way contracts work, but I assume Waters is a RFA (because he was draft) and Tacko is UFA (b/c he was a FA signing) -- i'm probably wrong

All of this is subject to the decisions Hayward makes and the Celtics make. If he declines, almost everyone is at risk of going with him in a sign & trade. If he re-signs, this is an indication the Celtics think they don't need to make massive changes to win a championship in 2020/21. If he picks up his option I think it's pretty likely he's asked for and received assurance from the Celtics he won't be traded. Otherwise, he's declines (barring further injury issues).

Let's assume Hayward is back. There are some easy choices and some hard(ish) choices.
Easy: Brad Wannamaker is gone and replaced by Waters. They need to save money somewhere and he's playing well enough to get a raise elsewhere.
Easy: Tacko Fall is not on the 15 man roster (can they sign him to another 2 way deal? If not, he's gone). They can't give him a roster spot unless they've made a big trade that leaves open a bunch of spots or provides a big upgrade at the 5.
Easy: In the event Kanter picks up his option, you look to trade him for an upgrade at his position.
Hard: Semi has a nice contract and is finally producing the value they envisioned when they drafted him and invested playing time with him. If he keeps up his recent play the rest of the year, my hunch is they hang onto him. It's too good of a deal and he has a role. If he regresses it's an easy decision to part ways.
Hard: Vincent Poirier -- this is hard only because, in theory, he could provide what they're looking for and his contract is already guaranteed. I suspect they part ways as upgrading the big man spot is essential and he does not look very close.
Hard: Javontae Green -- As hard as the 15th man roster spot can get. I suspect the contract is too good and the current play/upside too promising to cut him. He could be trade bait.

If Hayward is gone and there's no big sign & trade move (that would be real disappointing)? Not much changes. Maybe it becomes more likely that Wannamaker is re-signed as Hayward was intended to be a primary ball handler and they are going to be real far from some punitive cap issues. Really though, I think they make every effort to get a S&T, potentially including an attractive player in order to get back something they can use to consolidate the talent on the roster without losing the cap space.
 
Last edited:

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
36,384
The Celtics can absolutely give Tacko a roster spot next year. We’re talking the very end of the bench here. I really don’t understand this continued position that some are taking. He is a developmental prospect and there is easily space for him.
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,809
The Celtics can absolutely give Tacko a roster spot next year. We’re talking the very end of the bench here. I really don’t understand this continued position that some are taking. He is a developmental prospect and there is easily space for him.
There needs to be a big trade or a few small ones for it to happen. He's not clearly equal to or better than any of the other 16 guys in the organization today. Of those 16, 2 have player options and 1 is a UFA. So if you assume everyone leaves that gets you down to 13 players for 15 spots. But then you add in 2-3 projected first round picks and there's just no spot without a trade. They could cut Poirier and put in Tacko over him, but that requires Poirier to hold onto his roster spot for all things other than the competition with Tacko, which I suspect is unlikely.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
The Celtics can absolutely give Tacko a roster spot next year. We’re talking the very end of the bench here. I really don’t understand this continued position that some are taking. He is a developmental prospect and there is easily space for him.
Some people are going to have to go in consolidating trades to enable this though. There just aren’t enough roster spots once you include draft picks.

They really need to find a way to roll over the late draft picks if nothing happens at this year’s deadline.

Edit: amarshal said it better.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
36,384
There needs to be a big trade or a few small ones for it to happen. He's not clearly equal to or better than any of the other 16 guys in the organization today. Of those 16, 2 have player options and 1 is a UFA. So if you assume everyone leaves that gets you down to 13 players for 15 spots. But then you add in 2-3 projected first round picks and there's just no spot without a trade. They could cut Poirier and put in Tacko over him, but that requires Poirier to hold onto his roster spot for all things other than the competition with Tacko, which I suspect is unlikely.
100% agree that there is going to be a crunch but I think Ainge will be able to roll over some of these picks or make a couple trades. I’m not expecting both Waters and Arsen to be here next year, for instance. Poirier seems like an auto-cut to me.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
I’d like to replace Poirier with Baynes next summer, with the plan to play him 10-15 minutes a game and be healthy/fresh in the playoffs. He should have another 1-2 good years left in him if the Suns don’t burn him out like a rental car.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
4,358
Wannamaker gets a lot of minutes in Brad's rotations today. I think we'd need to see ALOT more of Waters over the rest of the season for Brad to feel comfortable with letting Wannamaker leave and replacing him with Waters.

I assume Edwards likely sticks just because he's got a multi-year guaranteed contract. But, it would seem that he and Romeo would be in competition for rotation #2 minutes.

Do we know what Hayward's potential destinations could be if he opts out? Do they have anyone useful for a S&T?
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,809
Wannamaker gets a lot of minutes in Brad's rotations today. I think we'd need to see ALOT more of Waters over the rest of the season for Brad to feel comfortable with letting Wannamaker leave and replacing him with Waters.
If Hayward comes back? I really don't agree. Wannamaker is getting minutes because Hayward, Smart, or both have been out every game since the 7th game of the season (and he's played well in those minutes). That means they're always missing one of their 3 primary ball handlers. If you've got those guys healthy, he's going to average far fewer minutes. Not only is Waters showing enough in the g-league to give you confidence he could approximate Wannamaker, he's also shown enough to make you wonder if his ceiling is quite a bit higher in the short and long-term. You're not going to find out what Waters can do by keeping Wannamaker around.

The other person here is Carsen. He's not really a primary ball handler but if he had been playing well Wannamaker would be seeing even less time. Edwards started the season with the bulk of those minutes and Brad was just playing 5 minutes a game. As Carsen continued to struggle Brad picked up minutes from last guy in the rotation to every night guy. So that's potentially 2 guys who have a clear shot at taking Wannamaker's minutes next year -- Waters and Edwards.

The roster spots have to come from somewhere.
 
Last edited:

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
3,065
Not a lot of bigs expected on the mocks at 7-10 (Vernon Carey, Isaiah Stewart, Onyeka Okongwu), if the MEM pick conveys. Celtics all set at wing for a while, and probably at PG, although Nico Mannion would be an interesting pick. Hopefully it conveys in 2021, although Ja Morant might make that pick middling if he gets a good teammate out of the 2020 draft.

I don't see how they add more than one draft pick to their roster if they believe in this year's draft class. The two first rounders seem to be keepers, and they paid Edwards like a first rounder, although I like Waters much better. As Semi has finally turned into a plus three point shooter, at 36.6% on low volume, does his defensive chops make up for the fact that he can't do anything well offensively than hit a three pointer once in a while? Javonte Green has incredible athleticism, but is really finding his way, and looks lost much of the time. I think he has upside, but the upside car might be a bit crowded after the next draft.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
2,404
Wannamaker gets a lot of minutes in Brad's rotations today. I think we'd need to see ALOT more of Waters over the rest of the season
If Brad or Kemba is injured, that would hopefully give Tremont a chance to play some games in Boston. Anyway, he's on a two-way that he's barely used, so they could bring him up for a while if someone gets injured. I don't see this as necessarily a sticking point, his lack of playing time in Boston so far. Season's still young.
Easy: Tacko Fall is not on the 15 man roster (can they sign him to another 2 way deal? If not, he's gone).
I'd give Tacko Poirier's slot. Poirier is low floor/low ceiling. Stash another big in Maine in case Tacko doesn't work out.
Hard: Javontae Green -- As hard as the 15th man roster spot can get.
I keep Green. Not long ago, we were having a debate whether he or Strus would be the 15th man, racking up DNP-CD's. Since then Green's minutes have been climbing; guy is an athletic freak with a lot of energy.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
4,358
If Wannamaker is an UFA, then I think he is almost certainly gone. He's unspectacular, but solid enough that somebody probably has a role for him that would involve more playing time (and consequently, more money). If Waters is a RFA, then he becomes the back-up PG (although Marcus Smart is also sort of the back-up PG).

I'd think Kanter wouldn't have a hard time finding $5 million a year somewhere else. That doesn't mean he wouldn't come back - just that I don't see a real big incentive for him to exercise his player option.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,995
Pittsburgh, PA
This seems like the best place to put this: Good article in the Athletic by Jared Weiss and John Hollinger, about how Ainge should build around Tatum and Brown:


Excerpts:

Weiss: The Celtics’ core roster-building strategy has been predicated around spreading the floor with playmakers. Is this the next evolution of offense and can it keep up with offenses surrounding one or two singular talents?

Hollinger: I think in part this has been less “roster-building strategy” and more “what was available to them.” Boston’s offense was built around Isaiah Thomas pick-and-rolls and four other dudes hitting jumpers and playing defense when that was their best option, but now they have multiple strong weapons rather than a single dominating offensive talent.

I think it’s going to evolve back to the former by the time the 2021-22 season tips off, with Tatum as the centerpiece. First, Hayward is hugely unlikely to be on the team beyond 2021, if you look at the tax implications of keeping him at any salary that is even remotely expensive once Tatum inevitably signs a max extension. Second, Kemba Walker will be 31 by then.

For the next year-and-whatever, however, Boston is in a sweet spot where it can prey on opposing weak links because three different perimeter players are really good pick-and-roll ballhandlers, and two others (Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown) are good enough to attack mismatches. It’s so effective that they have a top-five offense despite getting basically zero from players seven through 15 on their bench.

The next stage in weaponizing this is taking the “roll” part to a higher level. Daniel Theis had a solid season this year and was very effective as a lead blocker (I’m sorry, “roll and seal”), but if the Celtics had a true rim-running threat or a deadly pick-and-pop shooter at one of the frontcourt spots, they could crack the league’s top two in offensive efficiency. An optimist can hope that Robert Williams evolves into this weapon; the Celtics will also get three more swings at it in the draft this year. Boston likely regrets passing on Brandon Clarke in the 2019 draft, as he could have fit this role well.

The other potential way to reshape the team in the short term would be to trade Marcus Smart, but I wouldn’t recommend that unless they were getting an A-grade big man in return. Smart’s multi-positional defense, ability to play both guard spots and knack for winning plays more than offsets his iffy shooting and occasional bouts of irrational confidence, and his contract is quite reasonable.

...

Weiss: So you remain high on Smart’s role in this next phase for the Celtics. Does he still have another level to get to as he enters his prime? He’s a Defensive Player of the Year candidate and is a borderline starting-caliber offensive player. I remember him coming up in trade deadline talks with your Grizzlies and Denver involving Tyreke Evans when Smart’s rookie deal was expiring a few years ago. How did you assess his value then and how has it evolved?

Hollinger: We were always big fans of Smart, and, to be clear, there was not a chance in hell that Boston was giving him to us for Tyreke Evans. (On a related note, Celtics Twitter was much more excited about Evans than the actual Celtics were.) He was the one player who reminded us the most of Tony Allen, another ex-Celtic from Oklahoma State who was an awesome defender from the guard spot.

Smart probably isn’t going to win Defensive Player of the Year because A. Rudy Gobert is still here, and B. his own defensive impact numbers aren’t quite in that orbit, but he’s likely to be a fixture on All-Defensive teams for the next half-decade. Combine that with even average offense and you’ve got a heck of a player. It helps the Celtics that defense remains underpaid — think of what his salary would be if he was an elite offensive player but an average defender.

In a salary cap league, you can’t build a team around five max guys (although the Warriors seem to be trying). You need defensive stoppers and knockdown shooters to fill in those gaps, and Smart offers that while playing multiple offensive positions. As a guard on a team with two stud wings, I think he’s a perfect fit both stylistically and contractually.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
42,308
Reading that article right now--he says it's "hugely unlikely" Hayward remains beyond 20-21 due to tax implications. That seems odd to me--not saying he's definitely coming back, but if I'm looking for way to describe the chances, I don't know if "hugely unlikely" is the way I would go.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,306
The presence of Walker and Tatum’s extension make it unlikely that Boston seriously bids on Hayward. Honestly I think it’s more likely that they trade him in the offseason than they sign him to an extension.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
17,890
The presence of Walker and Tatum’s extension make it unlikely that Boston seriously bids on Hayward. Honestly I think it’s more likely that they trade him in the offseason than they sign him to an extension.
Going to be tough to break up a championship winning team but Danny might do it
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,355
Santa Monica
The presence of Walker and Tatum’s extension make it unlikely that Boston seriously bids on Hayward. Honestly I think it’s more likely that they trade him in the offseason than they sign him to an extension.
what's the latest on how the NBA will handle, smooth the cap?

As far as trading Gordon, who would be able to make a 3-team trade work (GS?).
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,306
My guess is one of those draft night deals where Hayward goes to the Warriors for Wiggins and their #1 with a prior arrangement to send these on to the Knicks for a future first and then have the giant TPE to use to replace Hayward with a more economical option.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
580
Almost certainly returning but could be traded in the event the Celtics consolidate (cheap role players with upside under contract):
Romeo Langford ($3.6M, multiple years)
Time Lord ($2M, multiple years)
These two seem like the only ones with the potential to be better than role players. Whose chances do you like to get there?
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,355
Santa Monica
These two seem like the only ones with the potential to be better than role players. Whose chances do you like to get there?
Romeo. 2 yrs younger, another year of control, higher impact position will/should get more rope.

IMO Romeo has much more potential, then TL, of becoming "more the a role player".

The 5 can be efficiently filled by cheap, fungible, veteran BIGs. TL's inability to stay healthy, get on-court experience and positional need are working against him.

I'd wager on Granite having more potential then TL also.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,252
Quincy, MA
Romeo. 2 yrs younger, another year of control, higher impact position will/should get more rope.

IMO Romeo has much more potential, then TL, of becoming "more the a role player".

The 5 can be efficiently filled by cheap, fungible, veteran BIGs. TL's inability to stay healthy, get on-court experience and positional need are working against him.

I'd wager on Granite having more potential then TL also.
It'll be interesting to see what G. Williams looks like physically after this long layoff. People here have mentioned he's working out with Walker. I'm not expecting any big change physically, but it will be interesting in the same way I'm wondering about Zion's conditioning. From a skill set point of view, I think part of the Granite mention was him working on his ball handling. It can't hurt any player to work on that, but it strikes me as a weird choice given his position. I doubt he'd choose that in a vacuum, any thoughts on why he might choose ball handling (versus say putting up a half a million practice 3s) ?

Frankly, I'm interested in TL and Kemba's physical status on return as well. Kemba seemed like he was in the chronic territory (especially after the time with USA BB), I wonder if this time off was a long term blessing in disguise for him. As to TL, he might be able to be healthy in a consistent way to finish the season due to the layoff, but as you mention here, his biggest need is on-court experience at NBA speeds and levels and that's obviously not available during a layoff. If anything I might hope for a small initial time to shine as his athleticism shows through and everyone is trying to regain their flow - but as all the other players brush off any rust, he'll likely fade back.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
580
Langford. His health issues are very overstated (TL’s are not imo), and his defense could be special.
I agree that Romeo’s injury history is fluky, but to be more than a role player, he’ll need more than just special defense. I guess at some level the question is really asking which is more likely to be corrected, Langford’s shot or TL’s availability.

The 5 can be efficiently filled by cheap, fungible, veteran BIGs. TL's inability to stay healthy, get on-court experience and positional need are working against him.
I wasn’t asking so much about opportunity or philosophy of salary cap management. I think Ainge and Stevens would be happy to have a cheap and nonfungible homegrown BIG if they could develop one. unfortunately, TL’s lack of availability, and whatever issues are potentially contributing to it, is the biggest mark against him when there are alternatives.

I'd wager on Granite having more potential then TL also.
He certainly has a higher floor, due to this strength and basketball IQ, but I really don’t see a path for him to be anything more than a role player due to his lack of height and explosion.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
I agree that Romeo’s injury history is fluky, but to be more than a role player, he’ll need more than just special defense. I guess at some level the question is really asking which is more likely to be corrected, Langford’s shot or TL’s availability.
Yeah, I mentioned the defense because it's his surprising skill. The main reason to be high on him pre-draft is that he's a good playmaker/finisher/foul-drawer. He hasn't had any opportunity to do that on this team for obvious reasons, but I actually think he can get quite far with only a mediocre shot--he's not a 3-and-D guy.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
580
Yeah, I mentioned the defense because it's his surprising skill. The main reason to be high on him pre-draft is that he's a good playmaker/finisher/foul-drawer. He hasn't had any opportunity to do that on this team for obvious reasons, but I actually think he can get quite far with only a mediocre shot--he's not a 3-and-D guy.
Do you have a player comparison for Romeo in mind? The main reason I was high on him pre-draft was that he was a top 5 recruit in his class who showed the ability to finish in the paint at a high college level with his weak shooting at least in part being explained away due to injury. The main reasons I am high on him post-draft include his length, his willingness to defend, and the success we’ve had developing guys’ shots . . . along with the sense that this is the guy that Stevens (who is still plugged into Indiana basketball) wanted.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,355
Santa Monica
I wasn’t asking so much about opportunity or philosophy of salary cap management. I think Ainge and Stevens would be happy to have a cheap and nonfungible homegrown BIG if they could develop one. unfortunately, TL’s lack of availability, and whatever issues are potentially contributing to it, is the biggest mark against him when there are alternatives.
He certainly has a higher floor, due to this strength and basketball IQ, but I really don’t see a path for him to be anything more than a role player due to his lack of height and explosion.
Sure, they'd like to hit on late firsts (TL), but TL looks like a whiff, just like Yabu was a whiff. It happens.

Romeo has a higher floor and more potential IMO. He closed a few tight games when they last played. Has TL ever had Brad's confidence in closing a tight game? The few times TL has played over 2 seasons he's looked uncomfortable (Carsen Edwards-like). TL can't shoot (he's made 1 shot outside of 6ft over 2 seasons) and his passing is overrated. Defensively he's undisciplined. He can dunk and swat shots which are fun to watch.

My general point was in order for prospects, like TL & Romeo, to fulfill their potential, they need development minutes ("rope"). It makes more sense for the Celtics to give a wing (Romeo) more opportunities. Having contract control over a wing is worth multiples more than a classic under the basket center (hence why 5s are dropping in mock 2020 draft boards).

Being able to show up, play aggressive defense, set physical screens are the basic skills a classic (non-shooting 5) NBA center needs to possess. Unfortunately, TL can't be counted upon to stay healthy and play. It sucks, but that's the reality. Grant Williams has more offensive skills then TL, is younger, has an excellent work ethic, is VERY strong, and a high IQ. His FT shooting at the UTenn leads me to believe he will eventually develop a 3pt shot. I'd give him more development minutes then TL and expect him to eventually be a good rotational player.

No comp is perfect, but with Romeo, I see a bigger Avery Bradley with better ball-handling skills, slightly worse on-ball D

 
Last edited:

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,995
Pittsburgh, PA
Regarding the Time Lord...

Yeah, I should be clearer wrt "a lot of money." If he can actualize his defensive tools and is healthy, he will get paid $20-27M/year under the current cap structure.

If he actualizes those defensive tools at the most valuable defensive position and has a strong 3 pointer, you start moving into top-15 player territory, with the compensation that implies. My point was more how close he is to already being a very valuable and well-paid man, without needing to hit his wildest upsides.
Well he's been almost a nothing for us value-wise for the first two years of his deal, to the point where people were talking here earlier this year about perhaps cutting bait with him if some of the other bigs in contention start to pan out (probably in this very thread). We have him under contract for $2.0 next year, team option for $3.7 in 21-22. I'm willing to bet they can find some sort of extension that gives him a raise and security, but at a discount to expected production, if they really think he has long-term starter potential at the 5. A #27 pick should probably jump at the chance to replace the next 2 years with, say, 4 @ $7-10 AAV, and we all know he can jump.

(also, keeping the core together for a full-strength title run next year is scaring me, because Hayward is going to exercise his $34M option, Brown jumps from $6 to $23, while the cap / tax limit probably goes down... our commitments are at $140 already, Wyc is going to have to sell his 5th through 8th homes to pay the tax tab)
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
Regarding the Time Lord...



Well he's been almost a nothing for us value-wise for the first two years of his deal, to the point where people were talking here earlier this year about perhaps cutting bait with him if some of the other bigs in contention start to pan out (probably in this very thread). We have him under contract for $2.0 next year, team option for $3.7 in 21-22. I'm willing to bet they can find some sort of extension that gives him a raise and security, but at a discount to expected production, if they really think he has long-term starter potential at the 5. A #27 pick should probably jump at the chance to replace the next 2 years with, say, 4 @ $7-10 AAV, and we all know he can jump.

(also, keeping the core together for a full-strength title run next year is scaring me, because Hayward is going to exercise his $34M option, Brown jumps from $6 to $23, while the cap / tax limit probably goes down... our commitments are at $140 already, Wyc is going to have to sell his 5th through 8th homes to pay the tax tab)
TL isn’t extension-eligible until after his 3rd year, so there isn’t the option to lock up years early like that.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
4,358
Now that we know the draft situation, and we have a bit more data, might be worthwhile looking at this again.

I've been a big Brad Wannamaker critic over the last two seasons, but I have to say that he has given the Celtics some reasonable minutes at a reasonable cost in the end. It's also pretty clear that he has Brad Stevens' trust. I think there's a chance that he's resigned but a lot depends on how much money we are talking about.

It's a shame to eat Poirier's guaranteed contract for next season (a little puzzling what they were thinking there), but hard to justify a roster spot for him given the nothing he contributed this year and Stevens' complete lack of interest of playing him outside of garbage time.

As much as I like Tacko, I think he needs more playing time and is still very much a project. I'd like to see him in the G-league (assuming there is one).

Javonte Green is 27 years old. I think he's gone.

Now that Grant Williams can hit 3's, I think Semi is gone.

We'll know by mid-October what is going on with Hayward.

I see nothing from Edwards that makes me think the Celtics should continue investing in him (here again, a shame to eat the contract).
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,809
Generally agree with the above.

The thing we don’t know that needs to be resolved is all the draft picks. I can’t imagine Danny is excited about making 3 first round picks in this draft. He probably wasnt excited about all the picks last year but couldn’t seem to find good value in a trade. I think a trade this year is even more likely and there’s a chance the value isn’t great given the spot he’s in. Why? Well, if Hayward comes back this team could be somewhere between a favorite and THE favorite to take it all home. Trying to bring in 3 rookies to play with all the second year players is just bad roster construction for a team with their floor and ceiling. I think a trade for a veteran bench player at almost any position makes sense. Danny may need to let go of his desire to win the value game in every trade.

I do still have a small quibble on the Carsen Edwards analysis. I’ve fallen on him big time and agree with the pessimism. But he was a high second round pick and wouldn’t be the first guy to struggle big time in year one only to put it together and be something in year two. They didn’t give him that contract for nothing. The big caveats here are all the things I just said. The 2020/21 Celtics are not the best place for him. But cutting him seems premature. Maybe somebody else still believes and he goes as a flyer in another trade.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
1,724
Now that we know the draft situation, and we have a bit more data, might be worthwhile looking at this again.

It's a shame to eat Poirier's guaranteed contract for next season (a little puzzling what they were thinking there), but hard to justify a roster spot for him given the nothing he contributed this year and Stevens' complete lack of interest of playing him outside of garbage time.

As much as I like Tacko, I think he needs more playing time and is still very much a project. I'd like to see him in the G-league (assuming there is one).
Couldn't Tacko slide into Poirer's spot as the No. 4 center (assuming Theis, Kanter and Time Lord are back)? Poirier's ceiling seems really low.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,355
Santa Monica
Now that we know the draft situation, and we have a bit more data, might be worthwhile looking at this again.

I've been a big Brad Wannamaker critic over the last two seasons, but I have to say that he has given the Celtics some reasonable minutes at a reasonable cost in the end. It's also pretty clear that he has Brad Stevens' trust. I think there's a chance that he's resigned but a lot depends on how much money we are talking about.

It's a shame to eat Poirier's guaranteed contract for next season (a little puzzling what they were thinking there), but hard to justify a roster spot for him given the nothing he contributed this year and Stevens' complete lack of interest of playing him outside of garbage time.

As much as I like Tacko, I think he needs more playing time and is still very much a project. I'd like to see him in the G-league (assuming there is one).

Javonte Green is 27 years old. I think he's gone.

Now that Grant Williams can hit 3's, I think Semi is gone.

We'll know by mid-October what is going on with Hayward.

I see nothing from Edwards that makes me think the Celtics should continue investing in him (here again, a shame to eat the contract).
Barring any big trade from Danny. This is WAY too early, but what the heck, I'll play along:

1. Keep Semi, he showed a real leap on 3pt % and FTs this season. Another season on the cheap isn't the worst thing in the world as a deep bench #11-13. But I like Romeo and Grant better now and in the future, they fill 7-10 bench rotation
2. Bring back BW on the cheap, if not use MLE to fill this role.
3. Trade Poirier + Edwards + #30 for a future heavily protected first that probably turns into a future 2nd. Those are 3 cheap assets for not much in the future. Unclogs the Celtics roster and saves them some $$$.
4. Let Javonte Green go
5. Keep Tacko/Tremont
6. Hayward and Enes will probably not opt-out
7. Theis/TL/Enes/Granite share the 5 - Tacko (probably sentimental selection) is #5
8. 3 draft picks to fill the 3 spots vacated by CE, VP, JG

The team keeps lots of continuity. Jays continue to improve/develop.
starters: Theis/Kemba/JT/JB/GH
rotation bench: Smart/BW/Grant/Romeo/TL/Kanter
deep bench: Semi, Tre, #14, #26
2-way: Tacko, 2nd rounder

I think they also have room for an MLE veteran, but hard to predict where the Cap/Coronavirus/China revenue are going. Payroll flexibility is incredibly important with increased volatility in revenue.
 
Last edited:

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
36,384
That’s why I asked. What salaries would it take?
Assuming our core guys remain untouched, it would require multiple guys. Theis would be gone. Kanter too although not sure how that would work given his contract situation. Sure there’s a capologist on this board who knows. I think you could use Poirier and Edwards as filler. They’d obviously need something of value beyond Theis so Langford would probably be gone as well along with a pick.

Given the development of Theis/TL, I’m not sure this deal makes as much sense as it did in the past, especially since we’re going to need cheap bigs for the foreseeable future to balance out the larger contracts. Jaylen’s extension kicks in next year and we’ve got 3 more years of Kemba along with Tatum’s max deal.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
42,308
The issue is we have no real middle class in salary outside of Smart's $12M. Turner makes $18M.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
36,384
The issue is we have no real middle class in salary outside of Smart's $12M. Turner makes $18M.
Well, we do in Smart but clearly aren’t dealing him in a deal for a non-star. I think Ainge could get there with some creativity if both sides were motivated but just don’t see it. Another option would be Hayward/pick for Turner/Lamb, assuming Hayward opts in. But Indy isn’t trading 3 years of Turner for 1 year of Hayward either.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
People need to get used to the idea that Ainge isn’t going to shell out money/assets for a center who’s not a defensive superstar or an elite offensive talent. The NBA deck is too stacked towards wing play to do otherwise.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,355
Santa Monica
The C's will spend most of the cap $$$ on wings. The Myles Turner train has left the station and I'm fine Danny didn't get on.

There will be bucket loads of decent BIGS available on the cheap. Ultimately having 5 cheap centers on the roster (2-ways/Maine) that do different things and fill roles is the C's path forward.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,995
Pittsburgh, PA
I just hope Ainge can find a trade partner to package multiple picks for one better pick. We could really use something mid-lottery if that's gettable (and if Ainge/Stevens really like someone roughly in that spot). We need a player with a chance to be great who won't get expensive for a few years, to give some of our existing prospects the minutes and roster spots to have a chance to develop.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,929
Kiev, Ukraine
I imagine that they’ll have their board, see whether they can get value by moving up or out, and make the 3 picks if not.

Extra picks also give more latitude for interesting Hayward trades.
 

Swedgin

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2013
356
I just hope Ainge can find a trade partner to package multiple picks for one better pick. We could really use something mid-lottery if that's gettable (and if Ainge/Stevens really like someone roughly in that spot). We need a player with a chance to be great who won't get expensive for a few years, to give some of our existing prospects the minutes and roster spots to have a chance to develop.
In a draft this flat where teams will be operating with less information that normal, I think that is a poor strategy. The more bites at the apple the better.
 

RGREELEY33

Potty Mouth
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
4,403
Orange County, CA
In a draft this flat where teams will be operating with less information that normal, I think that is a poor strategy. The more bites at the apple the better.
I was going to mention something similar. I kind of like Ainge having 3 cracks at finding really good value in a wide-open, free-for-all kind of draft.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
3,065
In a draft this flat where teams will be operating with less information that normal, I think that is a poor strategy. The more bites at the apple the better.
Danny is due to hit a home run with a pick from 20-30. Rondo at 21 in 2006 was his best late pick. AB was his latest good one , ten drafts ago.

Danny certainly has been awesome with top 6 picks
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
4,358
In a draft where everyone agrees who the 12th best player is (for example), it make sense to package picks to move from 14 - 12. But, in this draft, there will really be no consensus. Danny could trade up to 9 to get someone who may have still been there are 26. I think we'll see lots of surprises on draft night. I think they actually could carry 3 rookies on the team (with the hopeful maturation of their current 1st year class). Although, Romeo looked a little all over the place vs. Philly.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,182
around the way
I'm in the minority here, but I'd move picks with Hayward for Turner + minimum filler required. He's a stretch 4/5 and would fit in here nicely.

We'd be buying low on MT, whose utility sunk with the Rise of Sabonis.