Celebrating what is

Soxy

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Agreed, but they legit got their butts kicked by Ravens in that playoff loss too.
In the second half. Pats were actually leading 13-7 at half time. It was a strange game.

Pats forced a Ravens punt on their first possession of the 3rd quarter. Then they drove into Ravens territory, only for the drive to stall out. Then the wheels fell off. Next five possessions went: Ravens TD, Pats punt, Ravens TD, Ridley fumble, Ravens TD, and the game was effectively over. It felt like it went from 13-7 Pats to 28-13 Ravens in the blink of an eye. It all happened pretty quickly.
 

Mystic Merlin

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That Ravens team - with about a three point differential per game - ran through three teams with much better positive point differentials. The Pats were over 14 points per game, the Broncos were at 11, and the Niners were over 7.5.

That’s the playoffs for you.
 

PedroKsBambino

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In the second half. Pats were actually leading 13-7 at half time. It was a strange game.

Pats forced a Ravens punt on their first possession of the 3rd quarter. Then they drove into Ravens territory, only for the drive to stall out. Then the wheels fell off. Next five possessions went: Ravens TD, Pats punt, Ravens TD, Ridley fumble, Ravens TD, and the game was effectively over. It felt like it went from 13-7 Pats to 28-13 Ravens in the blink of an eye. It all happened pretty quickly.
I recall, but the point is that in the end the Ravens won quite handily. it is not a game like (say) the Scottish Game or even the 2011 SB where you could say the teams were evenly matched and a break here or there was the difference.

Somehow, that Ravens team was a lot better in January than before. Just as last year's Pats were!
 

joe dokes

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It's easy to forget when you see this stuff, but during the game, so many of the players and coaches are gathered by position, and offense is separate from defense (and aren't on the sideline together), that they really dont get a chance to "be" with one another very much during the game.
 

tims4wins

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938 point differential better means 5.89 ppg over the 159 games. That is madness. It equates to 94 points over a 16 game season better than the next team. For context the 2007 Pats were 127 points better than the next team in terms of differential. It’s mind blowing.
 

BaseballJones

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938 point differential better means 5.89 ppg over the 159 games. That is madness. It equates to 94 points over a 16 game season better than the next team. For context the 2007 Pats were 127 points better than the next team in terms of differential. It’s mind blowing.
It’s a sign that the Pats have consistently been not just good but GREAT, while other franchises have had their ups and downs. If we look at the W-L records over this decade I bet you’ll find the Pats with a similarly impressive lead over the #2 franchise.

It’s been nothing short of pure dominance.

Not counting 2019 yet, we have nine seasons this decade. The Pats have:

- 9 division titles
- 9 first round byes in the playoffs
- 8 trips to the AFCCG (2010 the exception)
- 5 trips to the Super Bowl (2011, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018)
- 3 Super Bowl championships (2014, 2016, 2018)

I mean, that’s just ridiculous.
 

InstaFace

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I still can't fucking believe we were a little BB conservatism (kick the FGs) or a 2 point conversion and OT away from going to FIVE SUPER BOWLS IN A ROW.

And it's not like it takes a super vivid imagination to see us going in 2012 or 2013 a couple times out of 10 either.
 

BigSoxFan

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I still can't fucking believe we were a little BB conservatism (kick the FGs) or a 2 point conversion and OT away from going to FIVE SUPER BOWLS IN A ROW.

And it's not like it takes a super vivid imagination to see us going in 2012 or 2013 a couple times out of 10 either.
I still can’t get over 8 straight AFCCG. Imagine someone telling you that after the disastrous 2009 and 2010 playoff games, which to us spoiled fans felt like a low point.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I still can’t get over 8 straight AFCCG. Imagine someone telling you that after the disastrous 2009 and 2010 playoff games, which to us spoiled fans felt like a low point.
I didn’t think the 00-09 run could be topped, but they somehow did.

2009 was the worst year for my money, it felt like the kinda year a team has when it’s on the downswing. They just didn’t look competitive against the top teams, and coming off the knee injury and pre-exercise cult Brady was less mobile than he is now.
 

BigSoxFan

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I didn’t think the 00-09 run could be topped, but they somehow did.

2009 was the worst year for my money, it felt like the kinda year a team has when it’s on the downswing. They just didn’t look competitive against the top teams, and coming off the knee injury and pre-exercise cult Brady was less mobile than he is now.
Agreed. 2009 was worse because the team had no talent and Brady hadn’t returned to MVP form and we didn’t know what the future held. After 2010, we knew Brady was still elite and we had a lot more young talent all over the roster.
 

BaseballJones

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The Patriots have been the #2 seed six times in the BB/TB era (hoping for #7 this year). Here's their results:

2001 - won Super Bowl
2004 - won Super Bowl
2012 - lost AFCCG
2013 - lost AFCCG
2015 - lost AFCCG
2018 - won Super Bowl
 

tims4wins

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That chart really is amazing, but my god seeing that 2007 +315 point differential is just ridiculous. There have only be 2 other seasons where the PD was >200 (205 in 2010 and 226 in 2012) and we get a 3rd this year. But that 315 is 40% more than the second closest PD. Astounding.

Of course the 3 largest PD years unfortunately did not end well.
Seriously. +315 is nearly 20 per game
 

BaseballJones

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Seriously. +315 is nearly 20 per game
They didn't win it all, and obviously that's going to matter when it comes to evaluating the greatest team ever. But that 2007 Patriots squad was truly one of the all-time best teams, SB trophy or not.
 

snowmanny

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Each season brings roster changes and new challenges for a new team, but one of the pieces this thread highlights is how consistently great the Patriots have been. They could have won virtually every year. If their six titles had been 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2015, 2017 and their SB losses were 2001, 2003, 2014 that would make just about as much sense as the outcome we experienced. (Well, except that it is hard not to see a title in that 2003-2004 run).

If you had a team that was so so so much better than everyone else that every year the QB was healthy they got a first round bye, and then in the playoffs they had a 70% probability of winning the Divisional game, the Conference Championship Game, and the Super Bowl no matter who the opponents were....that team would be expected to win 5.8 Super Bowls in 17 seasons of healthy QB play.

This is what they created.
 

Euclis20

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They didn't win it all, and obviously that's going to matter when it comes to evaluating the greatest team ever. But that 2007 Patriots squad was truly one of the all-time best teams, SB trophy or not.
The NFL 100 list has them as the 7th best team of all time, which all things considered, sounds about right. You have to go all the way down to 35 to find the next team on that list that didn't win the championship (1990 Bills).
 

BaseballJones

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How many other would-be dynasties have been crushed by the Patriots?

The Steelers in the early 2000s thought they were going to dominate for years. They...didn't.
The Colts had in his prime Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. They didn't win one until 2006 (the flu game in the AFCCG).
The Broncos with Manning only won once, though they did knock off the Pats twice, to be fair.
The Rams of the early 2000s were on the precipice of a dynasty until...the Patriots came along and ended that.
The Seahawks thought they had a dynasty in the works until the Patriots ended that idea.

Obviously there have been other great teams to come along during this time frame. But the one year-in and year-out NFL constant has been New England greatness. Other teams come and go but the Pats are always always always there.
 

tims4wins

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Each season brings roster changes and new challenges for a new team, but one of the pieces this thread highlights is how consistently great the Patriots have been. They could have won virtually every year. If their six titles had been 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2015, 2017 and their SB losses were 2001, 2003, 2014 that would make just about as much sense as the outcome we experienced. (Well, except that it is hard not to see a title in that 2003-2004 run).

If you had a team that was so so so much better than everyone else that every year the QB was healthy they got a first round bye, and then in the playoffs they had a 70% probability of winning the Divisional game, the Conference Championship Game, and the Super Bowl no matter who the opponents were....that team would be expected to win 5.8 Super Bowls in 17 seasons of healthy QB play.

This is what they created.
Pretty amazing - 70% against the best of the best. Of course Brady's record is actually 30-10, 75%. Even more insane.

I think of all the records they have, Brady being 3-3 on the road in the AFC Championship game is possibly the most impressive. With the exception of 2006 when the Colts were the 3 seed, these games were all against the #1 in the conference. Steelers in 2001, Steelers in 2004, Broncos in 2013, Broncos in 2015, and Chiefs in 2018. So he has gone on the road and beaten the #1 seed in the conference in the title game 3 times in 5 tries.

Edit: Brady also won on the road against the #1 seed Chargers in 2006, so he is 4-2 all time on the road in the playoffs against the 1 seed.
 

Marciano490

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How many other would-be dynasties have been crushed by the Patriots?

The Steelers in the early 2000s thought they were going to dominate for years. They...didn't.
The Colts had in his prime Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. They didn't win one until 2006 (the flu game in the AFCCG).
The Broncos with Manning only won once, though they did knock off the Pats twice, to be fair.
The Rams of the early 2000s were on the precipice of a dynasty until...the Patriots came along and ended that.
The Seahawks thought they had a dynasty in the works until the Patriots ended that idea.

Obviously there have been other great teams to come along during this time frame. But the one year-in and year-out NFL constant has been New England greatness. Other teams come and go but the Pats are always always always there.
I think there was a lot of dynasty-to-be buzz around the Rams last year too. Young QB, coach, receivers, RB and dominant D-lineman in his prime.

If Dallas wins the NFC East, I believe that’ll leave the Seahawks as the only Patriots SB opponent since 2001 to make the playoffs this year, which is kind of astounding considering how many we’ve been in the last 18 years.
 

tims4wins

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In hindsight, given every other Belichick + Brady team during this Golden Era, the 2005 loss in the Divisional round has to be the least surprising playoff loss the team has suffered. It was the 2002 team with slightly better luck making the playoffs in 2005.
Agreed fully. I see lots of other people lament this game but I don’t. They just weren’t that good.

Also hard to get worked up about 2012 or 2013 either given the injuries.

We’ve done this before but order of pain goes something like
2007
2011 (given it was the Giants again)
2006 (more painful than 2017 for instance because it was Manning)
2015 (because they blew HFA and Manning again)
2010 (that team was rolling, stupid Jets)
2017
2013
2012
2009
2005
 

PedroKsBambino

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How many other would-be dynasties have been crushed by the Patriots?

The Steelers in the early 2000s thought they were going to dominate for years. They...didn't.
The Colts had in his prime Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. They didn't win one until 2006 (the flu game in the AFCCG).
The Broncos with Manning only won once, though they did knock off the Pats twice, to be fair.
The Rams of the early 2000s were on the precipice of a dynasty until...the Patriots came along and ended that.
The Seahawks thought they had a dynasty in the works until the Patriots ended that idea.

Obviously there have been other great teams to come along during this time frame. But the one year-in and year-out NFL constant has been New England greatness. Other teams come and go but the Pats are always always always there.
The Rams in 2001 authored the best unintentially accurate pre-game boast ever:

View: https://youtu.be/TLoZNdd-TLg?t=14


A dynasty was indeed born that night, Ricky...but not the one you thought it would be.
 

Seels

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How many other would-be dynasties have been crushed by the Patriots?

The Steelers in the early 2000s thought they were going to dominate for years. They...didn't.
The Colts had in his prime Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. They didn't win one until 2006 (the flu game in the AFCCG).
The Broncos with Manning only won once, though they did knock off the Pats twice, to be fair.
The Rams of the early 2000s were on the precipice of a dynasty until...the Patriots came along and ended that.
The Seahawks thought they had a dynasty in the works until the Patriots ended that idea.

Obviously there have been other great teams to come along during this time frame. But the one year-in and year-out NFL constant has been New England greatness. Other teams come and go but the Pats are always always always there.
The Chargers, whose two best years they ran into the 2006-2007 Pats, as well as the 2018 Pats.
 

Carlos Cowart

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The tuck rule game bitchslapped a good Raiders team into oblivion for 2 decades. The "lights out" dance game derailed San Diego's dynasty hopes. And of course Brady devoured Atlanta's soul in the SB. God, I would hate this team if I grew up anywhere else.
 

GrandSlamPozo

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In hindsight, given every other Belichick + Brady team during this Golden Era, the 2005 loss in the Divisional round has to be the least surprising playoff loss the team has suffered. It was the 2002 team with slightly better luck making the playoffs in 2005.
Not really, the 05 team was terrible defensively in the first half of the season but did a complete 180 after Bruschi returned from his stroke, giving up only 118 points in the final 8 games of the season. This includes the final game of the season which they lost intentionally to get a more favorable first round playoff matchup. They were jobbed like crazy by the officials in the playoff loss to Denver as well. The 02 team was mediocre the entire year and couldn't stop the run to save their lives.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The tuck rule game bitchslapped a good Raiders team into oblivion for 2 decades. The "lights out" dance game derailed San Diego's dynasty hopes. And of course Brady devoured Atlanta's soul in the SB. God, I would hate this team if I grew up anywhere else.
The best part of this is the rest of the league has been waiting 15 years to dance on Pats fans graves and talk shit, talk about how they’re washed up and it’s over. At this point, Pats fans can just point and laugh because no team is likely to ever have a span like this. If the Pats suck for the next 20 years, which i don’t believe they will completely, it’s still a better run than anyone else by a long shot
 

BaseballJones

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The worst season the Patriots have had since 2002 is 2008, when they went 11-5 and missed the playoffs due to a third-level tiebreaker. And that season was without Tom Brady due to his knee injury. That's the WORST season in the last 16 years. Unreal.
 

Reverend

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I feel like at least one of the last two posters probably understands what this thread is about.
 

Shaky Walton

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If Tom Brady leaves after this season (and that specific topic is decidedly not what this thread is about), he will have never started an NFL game as a Patriot when his team was eliminated from the playoffs. He will never have started a garbage time game.

With all the winning over the years, the Pats have still have suffered some serious nut punch losses. No need to recount them. But even some heartache thrown in, the fact that they have always been in contention while Tom Brady was their QB is probably not a feat eqalled by many other NFL QBs over a long span in one place. Whether it's been done before, it's mind blowing in my book, and it's exactly what is to be celebrated. Titles are awesome and I suspect that all the Pats fans here want at least one more because really, there is never enough of that. As Tom says, we like winning. At the same time, all I think we can fairly ask for is that the team be in contention. With Brady starting games, that has always been the case.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I was thinking about this in connection with the Sanu thread. Every year the Patriots’ season comes down to a handful of plays. You can probably identify at least a dozen plays where you could say that a championship or at least a good chance at one turned on the play — or maybe a sequence.

Part of being a dynasty in the age of parity is you cannot sustain dominance. The Patriots’ dynasty is about sustained excellence not dominance. As a result we can fill a 60 minute special with the kind of plays that other franchises maybe get one or two of per generation.

They don’t always go our way. But they do more often than not and just the opportunity to get a couple every year is special. They also mean that when we give up a second rounder for a guy like Sanu you have this weird situation where his body of work may turn out far less important than one or two plays, just because the Patriots are so often in position where one play can be worth more than an entire body of work. Walker was an unbelievably productive Patriot. That’s not what some fans immediately remember when they hear his name. It is one play that pops first to mind. As unfair as that is, it can work the other way too. Sanu can pay dividends with one play, perhaps.

What an amazing organization this has been to follow.
 

InstaFace

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Welker, you mean? Anyone who thinks his time here was defined by one play is an idiot, he was a linchpin for 6 years. That'd be like saying Shaq Mason's career here was defined by getting beat for the strip-sack that decided SB 52. You can go out of your way to look at things through a contrived negative light if you like, but (A) that's no way to enjoy being a fan, and (B) is pretty much a willful misrepresentation of what a player meant to the Patriots.
 

Euclis20

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It's not super fair but it's still accurate. Shaq Mason was a big part of two super bowl winning teams, so of course his career isn't defined by the one he lost. Welker is on a small unfortunate list (outside of Buffalo at least) of players who've played in 3 super bowls and lost all 3, and he dropped a moderately difficult pass that could have won a super bowl. Sucks. I have three real memories of his play, and that's one of them (also the 99 yard reception and monster hit he took against the Steelers).

The real sad one is Logan Mankins, who somehow played for the dynasty pats for 9 years (by career AV, he's the second best patriot of this era) without a super bowl win. 7 Pro bowls, and he's going to be mostly remembered for having two horrible games against the Giants.
 

BigSoxFan

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It's not super fair but it's still accurate. Shaq Mason was a big part of two super bowl winning teams, so of course his career isn't defined by the one he lost. Welker is on a small unfortunate list (outside of Buffalo at least) of players who've played in 3 super bowls and lost all 3, and he dropped a moderately difficult pass that could have won a super bowl. Sucks. I have three real memories of his play, and that's one of them (also the 99 yard reception and monster hit he took against the Steelers).

The real sad one is Logan Mankins, who somehow played for the dynasty pats for 9 years (by career AV, he's the second best patriot of this era) without a super bowl win. 7 Pro bowls, and he's going to be mostly remembered for having two horrible games against the Giants.
Agreed. It’s not fair at all but that’s sports. Welker was basically Edelman without the SB heroics. He was so good for this team but that one play will overshadow his legacy here a bit. Ditto for Asante Samuel. In a different universe, his Pick 6 in 2006 is basically thought of the same as Ty Law’s SB36 play. But, instead, they lost that game (due to a lot of bullshit) and then the next year he failed to make a difficult play in the SB to catch that errant Eli throw while remaining inbounds.

It’s ridiculous that Mankins did not win a SB given how many good teams he was on. I feel bad for all 3. They all deserve to be thought of in the same light as some of these other Patriots heroes. Mankins especially got screwed since I believe he played injured in both SBs. Or maybe it was just SB46.
 

Pandemonium67

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Just think how many non-Patriots had the misfortune of playing during this era and never even sniffed a Super Bowl due to the Pats' dominance. Sad!