Celebrating What Is

Jed Zeppelin

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NFLN showed SB39 and then SB49 back to back, and it was shocking how much better Cris Collinsworth was in 2005 compared to ten years later. Maybe it was the fact that he shared color duties with Troy Aikman, so he didn't have to fill up dead air talking about stuff outside the game (like looking deep into Tom Brady's eyes).

I'm sure I felt differently at the time, but the Buck/Aikman/Collinsworth booth in 2005 was fantastic. I think Aikman has gotten better since then, but Cris has gotten much, much worse.
It isn’t necessarily the best for hard-hitting analysis but I think the Buck/Aikman crew is one of the better listens these days, as a lot of what I generally dislike about Buck in the baseball booth somehow doesn’t transfer over (I think he is much more excited to cover football). Al and Cris are both starting to slow down with 49 as a notable pivot point.
 

Jimbodandy

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around the way
Which, of course, Felger and Mazz killed him over and used as evidence that he had lost his edge and didn’t care as much as he used to.
Which is perfect evidence of why Felger and Mazz and anyone who considers their opinions whatsoever should be completely disregarded. They're clickbait fucking morons.
 

Al Zarilla

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It isn’t necessarily the best for hard-hitting analysis but I think the Buck/Aikman crew is one of the better listens these days, as a lot of what I generally dislike about Buck in the baseball booth somehow doesn’t transfer over (I think he is much more excited to cover football). Al and Cris are both starting to slow down with 49 as a notable pivot point.
I've heard that Collinsworth still locks himself in his mancave studying film for long periods during the summer and fall and his wife barely sees him. This is to give him material about teams and players to use during games. Correspondingly, he still comes out with more stuff about plays that I can't see on my TVs limited view than anyone else. Tony Romo might be getting as good in that regard. Yes, I know Collinsworth was a pain in the ass near the end of 49 with his deflategate talk, but he's still the best, to me.

Off topic, sorry.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I just realized that the Pats jumped Pitt, Dallas, and Green Bay and now have the most all time NFL playoff wins, along with by far the best winning percentage.

We are 4th in all time regular season winning percentage and could feasibly jump to 2nd next year depending how things go.

It’s hard to believe this is the same franchise I grew up with.
 

tims4wins

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I just realized that the Pats jumped Pitt, Dallas, and Green Bay and now have the most all time NFL playoff wins, along with by far the best winning percentage.

We are 4th in all time regular season winning percentage and could feasibly jump to 2nd next year depending how things go.

It’s hard to believe this is the same franchise I grew up with.
They have won as much in the last 18 years as any other franchise has in 60 years
 

BaseballJones

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It's so interesting that they chose to receive the ball so ofte
They have won as much in the last 18 years as any other franchise has in 60 years
Yep it’s anazing. Sadly we are due for a major correction at the end of this era, but still.
 

Dollar

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When someone says hi to me, and I don't realize they're talking to the person behind me:

 

McBride11

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And there are guys like Cannon, Gronk, and Edelman who have been on the team for 5 SBs
Ty Law, LArry Izzo, Asante Samuel, Hightower, Develin, M Butler. R Allen. THis graphic seems weak.

edit: and Im sure there are more. This was top of my head.

edit: nope - I misread 5 as 3 on my phone. never mind
 
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BornToRun

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Too bad they didn't have Jules playing more in 2011 SB :(

edit: Branch drop. AH drop. both with about a minute. Sigh
Speaking of Branch, he has the one moment from that game that I remember somewhat fondly. It was our last drive and I think it was something like a 4th and 14th and Brady hits Deion on the sideline to keep us alive. I remember Branch more or less leaning out of bounds with his upper body and Tom just pinning the ball to his hip.
 

McBride11

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Speaking of Branch, he has the one moment from that game that I remember somewhat fondly. It was our last drive and I think it was something like a 4th and 14th and Brady hits Deion on the sideline to keep us alive. I remember Branch more or less leaning out of bounds with his upper body and Tom just pinning the ball to his hip.
Yup. Exactly that. Followed by some incomplete then the 12 men on field time burning trick then the hail mary that if only gronk had a good ankle...

Jules makes the ‘welker drop’ a catch...
 

Van Everyman

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I’ll always believe that Branch catches that ball on the last drive in that Super Bowl. Refs didn’t review it for some reason but he looked very in.
 

Ed Hillel

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Watching now too. Why did Edelman catch the punt right before OT too? He muffs that and Atlanta recovers, they win on a FG.
Good question, though he’s the most reliable catcher of punts I’ve ever seen, so maybe Bill liked that trick play enough to risk it.
 

mandro ramtinez

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Watching now too. Why did Edelman catch the punt right before OT too? He muffs that and Atlanta recovers, they win on a FG.
Belichick wanted to try for the free kick off the fair catch but the punt ended up a little too deep for that. I think BB tells him to fair catch in one of the videos that came out after that win.
 

drleather2001

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And the BBtL name is from a Ron Borges quote from around 2004 saying that fans were too blinded by the Lombardis to see everything Belichick was doing wrong with the team.
Oh. Derp. Well yam bag and berry were the Borgeses of this forum so I’m not totally wrong.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Speaking of Yammer, he missed a golden 12 months to rub the Eagles win in our faces.

Now, who gives a shit!

Hopefully the Pats can ruin the 100th year NFL anniversary for all other fans.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Man the dagger that was at the time. Not quite Tyree or Manningham or Kearse but felt like it.
It was also BY FAR the least lucky and most skilled catch out of that group of four. To this day I’m still not sure how Jones caught that - Rowe is not a particularly amazing CB but his coverage on that particular play was literally perfect and still not good enough.
 

johnmd20

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It was also BY FAR the least lucky and most skilled catch out of that group of four. To this day I’m still not sure how Jones caught that - Rowe is not a particularly amazing CB but his coverage on that particular play was literally perfect and still not good enough.
Tyree and Manningham didn't make lucky catches. That's why they are hearbreakers, because they were really tough plays, hauled in by near nobodies who went on to do almost nothing in the NFL after the game.

The Kearse catch was lucky.
 

Al Zarilla

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My wife asked me today out of the blue if the Red Sox and Patriots had ever won titles in the same year. I told her yes, 2004. For a non sports fan to think and ask about that means we (our teams) must really be doing something great.
 

patoaflac

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My wife asked me today out of the blue if the Red Sox and Patriots had ever won titles in the same year. I told her yes, 2004. For a non sports fan to think and ask about that means we (our teams) must really be doing something great.
GREAT. Only 4 times, two of them in Boston.
 

snowmanny

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We are such an unfortunate fanbase!
Seriously, 2003 Red Sox, 2008 Red Sox, 2010 Celtics, 2012 Celtics, 2012 Bruins, 2006,2007,2011,2015,2017 Patriots etc etc... No other city has dealt with so much heartbreak over the last 15 years.
 

McBride11

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Seriously, 2003 Red Sox, 2008 Red Sox, 2010 Celtics, 2012 Celtics, 2012 Bruins, 2006,2007,2011,2015,2017 Patriots etc etc... No other city has dealt with so much heartbreak over the last 15 years.
Ouch. I wasnt ready for all that. Maybe next year! Chins up fellas (and ladies)!
 

BaseballJones

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From the Nation's Tears III thread....

You have to win three Super Bowls in a row to be the greatest team ever? I'm going to steal this: Q. Who is the greatest basketball player ever? A. They haven't been born yet.

Anyway the Patriots came closest to that feat 2016-2018, probably followed by the Patriots 2014-2016 or the 49ers 1988-90 and then maybe the Cowboys 1992-1995
Got me thinking. What's the best 3-year stretches in NFL history (SB era)? Given that teams have won back-to-back titles, I'd say that a requirement to be on the short list is that any given 3-year span has to have included two titles. So here we go. The years in this exercise represent the years in which the seasons occurred, not the seasons in which the Super Bowls were played.

Green Bay: 1966, 1967, 1968
1966 - Won SB
1967 - Won SB
1968 - 6-7-1, missed playoffs

Miami: 1971, 1972, 1973
1971 - Lost SB (24-3, to Dallas)
1972 - Won SB
1973 - Won SB

Miami: 1972, 1973, 1974
1972 - Won SB
1973 - Won SB
1974 - 11-3, lost in the divisional round

Pittsburgh: 1973, 1974, 1975
1973 - 10-4, lost in the divisional round
1974 - Won SB
1975 - Won SB

Pittsburgh: 1974, 1975, 1976
1974 - Won SB
1975 - Won SB
1976 - 10-4, lost in the AFCCG

Pittsburgh: 1977, 1978, 1979
1977 - 9-4, lost in the divisional round
1978 - Won SB
1979 - Won SB

Pittsburgh: 1978, 1979, 1980
1978 - Won SB
1979 - Won SB
1980 - 9-7, missed playoffs

San Francisco: 1987, 1988, 1989
1987 - 13-2, lost in the divisional round
1988 - Won SB
1989 - Won SB

San Francisco: 1988, 1989, 1990
1988 - Won SB
1989 - Won SB
1990 - 14-2, lost in the NFCCG

Dallas: 1991, 1992, 1993
1991 - 11-5, lost in the divisional round
1992 - Won SB
1993 - Won SB

Dallas: 1992, 1993, 1994
1992 - Won SB
1993 - Won SB
1994 - 12-4, lost in NFCCG

Dallas: 1993, 1994, 1995
1993 - Won SB
1994 - 12-4, lost in NFCCG
1995 - Won SB

Denver: 1996, 1997, 1998
1996 - 13-3, lost in the divisional round
1997 - Won SB
1998 - Won SB

Denver: 1997, 1998, 1999
1997 - Won SB
1998 - Won SB
1999 - 6-10, missed playoffs

New England: 2001, 2002, 2003
2001 - Won SB
2002 - 9-7, missed playoffs
2003 - Won SB

New England: 2002, 2003, 2004
2002 - 9-7, missed playoffs
2003 - Won SB
2004 - Won SB

New England: 2003, 2004, 2005
2003 - Won SB
2004 - Won SB
2005 - 10-6, lost in the divisional round

New England: 2014, 2015, 2016
2014 - Won SB
2015 - 12-4, lost in the AFCCG
2016 - Won SB

New England: 2016, 2017, 2018
2016 - Won SB
2017 - Lost SB (41-33, to Phi)
2018 - Won SB

Ok, so that's the complete list. Of that list (19 instances), here's the breakdown:

2 SB titles, one SB loss
- NE (2016-2018)
- Mia (1971-1973)

2 SB titles, one loss in the conf. championship
- NE (2014-2016)
- Dal (1993-1995)
- Dal (1992-1994)
- SF (1988-1990)
- Pit (1974-1976)

2 SB titles, one loss in the divisional round
- NE (2003-2005)
- Den (1996-1998)
- Dal (1991-1993)
- SF (1987-1989)
- Pit (1977-1979)
- Pit (1973-1975)
- Mia (1972-1974)

2 SB titles, one missed playoffs (winning record)
- NE (2001-2003)
- NE (2002-2004)
- Pit (1978-1980)

2 SB titles, one missed playoffs (losing record)
- Den (1997-1999)
- GB (1966-1968)

So clearly, since you are closer to winning a SB the further you advance, we can rule out everyone but the 2016-18 Patriots and 1971-73 Dolphins as contenders for the mythical "Jim Irsay best team ever because you have to win three in a row in order to become the best team ever" title.

Now let's compare the 2016-18 Pats with the 1971-73 Dolphins. And really, we just have to look at their one season where they did NOT win the SB (since, obviously, they DID win it the other two times). And really, we don't even need to look at the whole seasons, because whatever MAY have happened, both the 1971 Dolphins and 2017 Patriots made it to the Super Bowl.

So what happened in SBs 6 and 52?

In SB 6, the Dolphins got pancaked by the Cowboys, 24-3. In that game, the Cowboys took a 3-0 lead, went up 10-3, and never were challenged. The Cowboys out-gained the Dolphins 352-185. Miami committed 3 turnovers and gained only 10 first downs. It was complete, utter domination by Dallas over Miami.

In SB 52, the Patriots fell behind early but made a nice comeback to take a 33-32 lead midway through the fourth quarter. They got the ball back down 38-33, with two and a half minutes remaining. We all know what happened from there, but they had the lead in the fourth quarter and were poised for a game-winning drive at the end. They out-gained Philly 613-538, racked up 29 first downs (to 25 for Phi), and in some ways actually outplayed them (never once punting). And even at the end they had a hail mary play that very nearly worked.

In Super Bowl 52, the Patriots were MUCH MUCH MUCH closer to winning than Miami was in Super Bowl 6. Like, not even close.

So when all is said and done, the Patriots were a half a quarter away from winning SB 52, while the Dolphins were never remotely close to winning SB 6.

Therefore, the all-time 3-year best team ever title - as close as we can get to Irsay's definition - are your very own, current New England Patriots of 2016-2018.
 

InstaFace

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That's great stuff. A candidate from that "lost in the CCG the third year" pool that might have an argument stronger than Miami 71-73 is that SF one from 88-90. They were a 2-loss, 2-time-defending champ and lost one of the all-time great playoff games, 15-13, to the team that would win the title (and who had a great defensive gameplan too, whoever came up with that should get some respect).
 

tims4wins

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That's great stuff. A candidate from that "lost in the CCG the third year" pool that might have an argument stronger than Miami 71-73 is that SF one from 88-90. They were a 2-loss, 2-time-defending champ and lost one of the all-time great playoff games, 15-13, to the team that would win the title (and who had a great defensive gameplan too, whoever came up with that should get some respect).
Sounds a lot like the 2015 Pats, except as we all saw that team faded down the stretch.

The Giants kicked the crap out of Joe Montana in that game.
 

InstaFace

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Well yes, but that was the game back then. Montana had taken quite a beating in years prior, too, but also emerged victorious. I remember re-watching one of those old NFC games and practically jumping at the bone-crunching hits. A car wreck every play, they say... hardly an exaggeration at all.

Anyway, in the thread's theme, someone watching SB38 vs Carolina pointed out how far Brady's skills have come since then. Let me celebrate the following:

- Tom's career high in ANY/A came in 2007, but he missed matching that figure (8.88) in 2016 by only 0.07 (8.81). Some think that he had a little extra chip on his shoulder that year, and maybe was a little better-rested throughout the season... can't imagine why.

- His ANY/A in 9 of the last 10 years (2009-2018, excepting 2013) has been higher than any of his first 6 years as a starter (2001-2006). He was in the 5s from 2001-2003, and the 6s from 2004-2006, whereas he has been over 7 every year but one since returning from his injury, including 3 years with MVP-level figures in that stat (>8, specifically 8.25 in 2010, 8.25 in 2011, 8.81 in 2016).

- Out of his 17 full seasons as a starter, 3 of the 6 seasons he has exceeded a passer rating of 100 for the year have come in the last 4 years (2015, 2016, 2017).

- Likewise, 6 of his 7 worst seasons by passer rating were his first 6 years as a starter (plus 2013). Other than 2013, he has not posted an annual passer rating lower than 97 since 2009. While playing mostly outdoors.

These last 5 years, his age 37-41 seasons, he has essentially performed as well as any year in his career other than 2007. The only comparison I can think of is Barry Bonds, which is inapt for one obvious reason... but at the time, before we were fully aware of Bonds' PED use, I remember how we used to marvel at the absurdity of how good he was, for any age, but especially at the age he was doing it in 2001-2004 as he won 4 straight MVPs. Well, here we have a player in a far-more-brutal sport, doing it at a later age, with not even a whiff of chemical enhancement, and although he's only won one MVP in that stretch he's basically deserved it every year.

The sheer extent to which he is a better quarterback now than in his supposed physical prime is staggering.
 

BaseballJones

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Sounds a lot like the 2015 Pats, except as we all saw that team faded down the stretch.

The Giants kicked the crap out of Joe Montana in that game.
Exactly. That 2015 Pats team dealt with a lot of injuries. But they very nearly beat a Denver team in Denver with an all-time great defense. If not for a Ghost missed-PAT, the Pats don't need to go for two at the end, and that game is likely tied and headed for OT.