Celebrating What Is

Feb 8, 2017
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So what's been better?

- 3 championships in 4 years, with a missed playoffs in-between to establish something we never imagined possible with the Pats?

or

- 3 championships in 5 years, with a gut-wrenching loss in the SB and a gut-wrenching loss to the Broncos in the AFCCG to re-establish the greatest dynasty ever?
Man, this feels like being asked to pick your favorite blow job. I would ever so slightly go with #1, due to it being so unprecedented, the joy of beating Manning a couple times, and the overall charisma of the team (especially the defense, Bruschi, Vrabel etc)
 

DrewDawg

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Man McVay was laying it on THICK during the pregame convo with BB.

Whoever said ‘that’s something you say in the preseason’ was dead on.
McVay to Goff after the INT: "We're okay. You're doing good."

That's what you say to a fragile guy.

BB: "They got nothing."
 
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DrewDawg

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BB sounds like a little kid. "We're champs. Ha ha! We're champs!"



This team hates it's coach! Edelman was walking around carrying BB's granddaughter. Then Brady's daughter clearly knows Edelman and goes "Are you happy?" and he responds "I'm very happy!"
 

moondog80

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So what's been better?

- 3 championships in 4 years, with a missed playoffs in-between to establish something we never imagined possible with the Pats?

or

- 3 championships in 5 years, with a gut-wrenching loss in the SB and a gut-wrenching loss to the Broncos in the AFCCG to re-establish the greatest dynasty ever?
The latter, because everyone else hates us this time around.
 

Soxy Brown

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Wait, did Brady talk Belichick into kicking the FG at the end instead of going for it? Because that's definitely the way they framed that conversation.

For those who didn't see it (paraphrasing):

Brady: "Why don't we just kick the field goal? It's a 40 yard field goal. He makes it and the game's over."

Belichick (to headset): "Is field goal team ready? Alright, we're going field goal."

Edit: I rewound it and Belichick actually says: "Are you good on the field goal?" Asking Ernie Adams, I assume?
 

sheamonu

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I think luck could have been top 5 in the perfect system with a much better offensive line.

He got neither of those things upon entering the NFL.
The editor is bitching about how miserable she is because their one-trick hate pony won again. They ran the same story 5 times in a night.

Their quality has really slipped because of this. I have noticed fewer comments on each article than in the past. I don't know about page hits, but the site's gone way downhill.
Man, this feels like being asked to pick your favorite blow job. I would ever so slightly go with #1, due to it being so unprecedented, the joy of beating Manning a couple times, and the overall charisma of the team (especially the defense, Bruschi, Vrabel etc)
Trying, with every fiber in my being, to refrain from starting a "pick your favorite blow job" thread...
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Watching Inside the NFL, it’s clear how much better equipped the Patriots were than the Rams to win that kind of game. Just the way it played out played into exactly what Bill values.

He puts a premium on flexibility and ability to become what you need to become in a particular situation. You can beat him when the game comes down to execution. You can even outcoach him sometimes. And very occasionally he might even commit to a game plan that turns out to be a mistake. He’s not infallible.

But when the game has both sides scratching their heads, and things are not working like expected, it’s very unlikely you’re going to be able to adapt better than he does or have a squad of players and coaches more conditioned to do so.

There are years when this team has had an identity and such a dramatic advantage in a particular facet of the game that they played into that strength most of the time. Not really this year, other than a steady improvement week after week in the trenches to the point where the lines were almost transformed over the year. This team’s identity and its strength was being what it needed to be to get the job done. And things aligned to put them in position where, three quarters in to a very unusual and unexpected tie game, that’s the skill they needed to grind it out.

The more highlights I see, the more unbelievably unusual that game seems.
 

Al Zarilla

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Watching Inside the NFL, it’s clear how much better equipped the Patriots were than the Rams to win that kind of game. Just the way it played out played into exactly what Bill values.

He puts a premium on flexibility and ability to become what you need to become in a particular situation. You can beat him when the game comes down to execution. You can even outcoach him sometimes. And very occasionally he might even commit to a game plan that turns out to be a mistake. He’s not infallible.

But when the game has both sides scratching their heads, and things are not working like expected, it’s very unlikely you’re going to be able to adapt better than he does or have a squad of players and coaches more conditioned to do so.

There are years when this team has had an identity and such a dramatic advantage in a particular facet of the game that they played into that strength most of the time. Not really this year, other than a steady improvement week after week in the trenches to the point where the lines were almost transformed over the year. This team’s identity and its strength was being what it needed to be to get the job done. And things aligned to put them in position where, three quarters in to a very unusual and unexpected tie game, that’s the skill they needed to grind it out.

The more highlights I see, the more unbelievably unusual that game seems.
I can’t remember if it was Ray Lewis or Ladainian Tomlinson (neither a favorite) that called the Patriots a chameleon for that very reason. Astute, unless someone told the guy to say it. Think it was LDT. Actually, LDT seems to have come along somewhat as a commentator recently. Is that possible?
 

jablo1312

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It was great to see them finally close out a playoff game like that with a successful 4 minute offense after some of their worst playoff losses came by giving the ball back in closing minutes (06 in Indy, SB 46). Wild to think that once upon a time this team had a "can't close in the playoffs since Spygate" label for almost a decade. Almost feels like that never even happened.
 

Super Nomario

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It was great to see them finally close out a playoff game like that with a successful 4 minute offense after some of their worst playoff losses came by giving the ball back in closing minutes (06 in Indy, SB 46). Wild to think that once upon a time this team had a "can't close in the playoffs since Spygate" label for almost a decade. Almost feels like that never even happened.
The last ten minutes ... you get a vintage Brady hot-knife-through-butter TD drive, capped by a vintage Gronk catch and a perfectly-blocked Michel plunge, then the perfect blitz and Gilmore pick, then running the ball down LAR's throats when they KNEW we were going to run, culminating in a game-sealing FG by Gostkowski, one of the best players on the team for the last decade, but one who's never really gotten his big playoff moment. All three phases (and if you go back to the beginning of the 4th, you get a coffin-corner Allen punt and another defensive stop).

I think I come down on the side that Brady has ultimately been more important to the dynasty than Belichick, but it was fun as hell to win a Super Bowl where Brady was never under serious consideration for MVP and a lot of the "other guys" got a chance to shine in a real three-phases team win.
 

DrewDawg

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James White, to Dorsett, right before the Goff interception: "He's gonna give us one. He's going for the home run."

Pick is thrown. "Told you."
 

joe dokes

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Early in the game McVay said something like, "Let's see what they've got planned" or somesuch. My thought at the time was "too late."
 

BaseballJones

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Anyone with a link to the Inside the NFL piece? Or do you have to have a Showtime subscription for that?
 

Deathofthebambino

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Inside the NFL on now. Mic'd up.

BB apparently wants to watch the opposing coach on the sideline. "Where's McVay? I can't find him."

There's very little I see in the NFL Films clips that I haven't seen before, but this one caught me off guard, and I was coming here to specifically bring it up. We all know that BB will find little things that nobody else does that give him an advantage. He was pissed for a second when he couldn't find McVay on the other sideline, and then someone said something to him over the headphones and he responded something like "Oh, plus 40, I got him."

I'm dying to know what BB is looking for in that situation? Has he learned how to read lips without anyone noticing? Is McVay still using some old school hand signals on the sideline that the Pats picked up on tape, and BB was watching for those? Can he tell by where McVay is standing what kind of play they might be running? If he's X yards off the LOS, they are going deep, or if he's closer to the LOS, they are running, etc.? You know there's something there that Bill exploits, but I very much doubt we'll ever know what it is. And I'll bet there's a million others just like it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There's very little I see in the NFL Films clips that I haven't seen before, but this one caught me off guard, and I was coming here to specifically bring it up. We all know that BB will find little things that nobody else does that give him an advantage. He was pissed for a second when he couldn't find McVay on the other sideline, and then someone said something to him over the headphones and he responded something like "Oh, plus 40, I got him."

I'm dying to know what BB is looking for in that situation? Has he learned how to read lips without anyone noticing? Is McVay still using some old school hand signals on the sideline that the Pats picked up on tape, and BB was watching for those? Can he tell by where McVay is standing what kind of play they might be running? If he's X yards off the LOS, they are going deep, or if he's closer to the LOS, they are running, etc.? You know there's something there that Bill exploits, but I very much doubt we'll ever know what it is. And I'll bet there's a million others just like it.
Yup, he's probably got dozens of things like that, which he makes part of his game preparation and style that gives him some piece of information that he likes to file away in case it's helpful. It's probably really simple -- is he with the defense or the offense, is he calling the plays or are his assistants, what's he paying attention to. I bet his coaches are trained the same. Knowing where the FG kicker is standing, knowing which groups sit together on the sidelines, etc.
 

joe dokes

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Yup, he's probably got dozens of things like that, which he makes part of his game preparation and style that gives him some piece of information that he likes to file away in case it's helpful. It's probably really simple -- is he with the defense or the offense, is he calling the plays or are his assistants, what's he paying attention to. I bet his coaches are trained the same. Knowing where the FG kicker is standing, knowing which groups sit together on the sidelines, etc.
Or he sees Fassel stroll by and tell McVay "Hekker's gonna throw . . . ."
 

DeadlySplitter

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the gameplan definitely saw what happened to Goff in New Orleans, and I guess Chicago / Detroit too (didn't see either of these games). White/Edelman quotes knowing he could be a deer in the headlights.

EDIT: Oh Zolak said one quote, heh
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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very cool

Should be required viewing for every NFL broadcast team.
Oh, great. I'm already panicked every time I see that thing that Hightower is accidentally going to strip the ball from Butler. Now I guess I also need to start worrying about them throwing the ball to Lynch in the flat.

Edit: People who want to complain about LIII really need to STFU and just relax. The Patriots have given them some of the most dramatic and exciting moments in the history of sports. Repeatedly.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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Edit: People who want to complain about LIII really need to STFU and just relax. The Patriots have given them some of the most dramatic and exciting moments in the history of sports.
For those that didn't see the actual episode of Inside the NFL last night, the entire panel was basically crapping on the "casual" football fans who were bitching about it being a boring game. Literally everyone of them, from Michael Irvin to Brandon Marshall to Boomer/Simms/Ray Lewis. It was like an entire segment of the show.
 

BaseballJones

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For those that didn't see the actual episode of Inside the NFL last night, the entire panel was basically crapping on the "casual" football fans who were bitching about it being a boring game. Literally everyone of them, from Michael Irvin to Brandon Marshall to Boomer/Simms/Ray Lewis. It was like an entire segment of the show.
Yeah that was great. Francesa on Monday said it was a boring, poorly played game. But all these former all pros and HOFers and SB winners said, universally, that it was a GREAT game, just a defensive battle and not what the NFL has come to be nowadays. Irvin and Lewis and Marshall especially were LOVING how that game went down.
 

E5 Yaz

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For those that didn't see the actual episode of Inside the NFL last night, the entire panel was basically crapping on the "casual" football fans who were bitching about it being a boring game. Literally everyone of them, from Michael Irvin to Brandon Marshall to Boomer/Simms/Ray Lewis. It was like an entire segment of the show.
is there a link available for this?
 

simplyeric

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There's very little I see in the NFL Films clips that I haven't seen before, but this one caught me off guard, and I was coming here to specifically bring it up. We all know that BB will find little things that nobody else does that give him an advantage. He was pissed for a second when he couldn't find McVay on the other sideline, and then someone said something to him over the headphones and he responded something like "Oh, plus 40, I got him."

I'm dying to know what BB is looking for in that situation? Has he learned how to read lips without anyone noticing? Is McVay still using some old school hand signals on the sideline that the Pats picked up on tape, and BB was watching for those? Can he tell by where McVay is standing what kind of play they might be running? If he's X yards off the LOS, they are going deep, or if he's closer to the LOS, they are running, etc.? You know there's something there that Bill exploits, but I very much doubt we'll ever know what it is. And I'll bet there's a million others just like it.
I wonder how much of it is just "does he look like he's doing stuff". By which I mean: if he's frantically looking at slides or drawing things or pulling people over to talk to them or really doing some explaining in the headset, BB might think "ok McVay is making some big adjustments here, he's going to try to show us something different". But, he probably looked over and saw McVay wide-eyed and thought "he doesn't have a new wrinkle...he's not switching his plan...we're gonna stay the course".

I am obviously just making stuff up. For all I know he's projecting his thoughts into McVay's head.."who wants chicken who wants liver..."
Never saw this - Patricia breaking down Butler INT

Really cool to hear about all the different thoughts he's having after the adjustments have been made, in the few seconds as the audibles area happening.
 
Dec 6, 2017
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It was great to see them finally close out a playoff game like that with a successful 4 minute offense after some of their worst playoff losses came by giving the ball back in closing minutes (06 in Indy, SB 46). Wild to think that once upon a time this team had a "can't close in the playoffs since Spygate" label for almost a decade. Almost feels like that never even happened.
This video is a great blast from the past that discusses the underlined topic. It's pretty crazy how the perception has changed in just a few years.
 

NortheasternPJ

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This video is a great blast from the past that discusses the underlined topic. It's pretty crazy how the perception has changed in just a few years.
This video is pretty amazing. The only thing is Rob Parker's viewpoint hasn't changed. When Skip and Mangini are the voices of reason, you know you're in trouble.
 

Super Nomario

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I wonder how much of it is just "does he look like he's doing stuff". By which I mean: if he's frantically looking at slides or drawing things or pulling people over to talk to them or really doing some explaining in the headset, BB might think "ok McVay is making some big adjustments here, he's going to try to show us something different". But, he probably looked over and saw McVay wide-eyed and thought "he doesn't have a new wrinkle...he's not switching his plan...we're gonna stay the course".

I am obviously just making stuff up. For all I know he's projecting his thoughts into McVay's head.."who wants chicken who wants liver..."

Really cool to hear about all the different thoughts he's having after the adjustments have been made, in the few seconds as the audibles area happening.
And if you take this a step further ... it also explains Belichick famously stoic sideline demeanor. If he thinks he can get information from the way the other coach carries himself, he has to assume other coaches do the same thing, so he's going to be as poker-faced as he can.
 

NortheasternPJ

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And if you take this a step further ... it also explains Belichick famously stoic sideline demeanor. If he thinks he can get information from the way the other coach carries himself, he has to assume other coaches do the same thing, so he's going to be as poker-faced as he can.
He's also busy being a head coach and not burying his face in a laminated play sheet and doing 18 things at once, which also helps at being stoic, watching the play clock, replays, managing timeouts, apparently watching the other head coach, chatting with Ernie etc. He's got a full time job vs other HC's who spend all game staring at the 100 plays they're trying to figure out what to call next.



The best leaders are able to hire people they trust and delegate. So many other teams don't have this.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I wonder how much of it is just "does he look like he's doing stuff". By which I mean: if he's frantically looking at slides or drawing things or pulling people over to talk to them or really doing some explaining in the headset, BB might think "ok McVay is making some big adjustments here, he's going to try to show us something different". But, he probably looked over and saw McVay wide-eyed and thought "he doesn't have a new wrinkle...he's not switching his plan...we're gonna stay the course".

I am obviously just making stuff up. For all I know he's projecting his thoughts into McVay's head.."who wants chicken who wants liver..."

Really cool to hear about all the different thoughts he's having after the adjustments have been made, in the few seconds as the audibles area happening.
If I remember correctly, wasn't there something Bill saw from Pete Carroll in the Seattle SB that convinced him what was coming on the Butler pick? I know they're obviously always paying attention to substitutions and who the opponent is shuttling on and off the field, but I thought there was something specific that Bill saw Pete do or not do, although I could be totally mixing it up with something else.
 

RedOctober3829

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If I remember correctly, wasn't there something Bill saw from Pete Carroll in the Seattle SB that convinced him what was coming on the Butler pick? I know they're obviously always paying attention to substitutions and who the opponent is shuttling on and off the field, but I thought there was something specific that Bill saw Pete do or not do, although I could be totally mixing it up with something else.
IIRC, he looked over to the Seattle sideline and he thought they were confused as to what to run so he did not call a timeout before The Butler Pick.
 

DrewDawg

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There's very little I see in the NFL Films clips that I haven't seen before, but this one caught me off guard, and I was coming here to specifically bring it up. We all know that BB will find little things that nobody else does that give him an advantage. He was pissed for a second when he couldn't find McVay on the other sideline, and then someone said something to him over the headphones and he responded something like "Oh, plus 40, I got him."

I'm dying to know what BB is looking for in that situation? Has he learned how to read lips without anyone noticing? Is McVay still using some old school hand signals on the sideline that the Pats picked up on tape, and BB was watching for those? Can he tell by where McVay is standing what kind of play they might be running? If he's X yards off the LOS, they are going deep, or if he's closer to the LOS, they are running, etc.? You know there's something there that Bill exploits, but I very much doubt we'll ever know what it is. And I'll bet there's a million others just like it.
One thing that pops into my head--after the Seattle Super Bowl, BB said that he watched the other sideline and they seemed confused. Perhaps he's just trying to get a general sense of what's happening. Does McVay look overwhelmed? Is he making the playcalls? Arguing with someone?
 

Gambler7

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If I remember correctly, wasn't there something Bill saw from Pete Carroll in the Seattle SB that convinced him what was coming on the Butler pick? I know they're obviously always paying attention to substitutions and who the opponent is shuttling on and off the field, but I thought there was something specific that Bill saw Pete do or not do, although I could be totally mixing it up with something else.
This is right. He was watching Carroll and they had guys running off and on the field and looked disorganized. He had his own coaches asking him about taking a timeout and he held off. Figured it would be taking the Seahawks off the hook to take one.
 

loshjott

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And if you take this a step further ... it also explains Belichick famously stoic sideline demeanor. If he thinks he can get information from the way the other coach carries himself, he has to assume other coaches do the same thing, so he's going to be as poker-faced as he can.
He pretty much telegraphed to the Bills his distaste for the Microsoft Surface, however.

 

McBride11

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Rewatching on NFLN the end of SB 39 PAts - Carolina. Wild 7 minutes. Wilson, Harrison devastating injuries.

The thing I had forgotten, is that the game tieing TD by Ricky Proehl occurred against Asante Samuel (rookie forced into play because of injuries). Pats called a blitz and Proehl looked like he ran a hot route read on a slant from the outside right. Samuel just slacked off the coverage, almost like he thought he had safety help or there was man coverage.
Between that and the dropped INT he really had some bad plays in the SB.

edit - also those white ref pants. stark contrast. Like the black pants now.

AV up - nervous!

double edit - Gumbel: 3 in 4 years! closest to a dynasty you will ever see! - aged well
 
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simplyeric

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double edit - Gumbel: 3 in 4 years! closest to a dynasty you will ever see! - aged well
Well, I mean, that was pretty damn close to a dynasty. And then came an actual dynasty, so it was, like, right next to a dynasty. Or part of a dynasty. Or something.

I think 3 in 4 is likely the closest thing to a true dynasty as I’ll ever see again in my lifetime moving forward, if I even see that again.