I just posted about this in the Game Ball thread, but the Cleveland game in 2013 was insane. It was overshadowed by the Gronk injury, but the Pats went down 26-14 with 2:30 to go and scored a TD recovered the onside kick, and scored another TD to win it.... Except they scored so fast that the Browns actually moved the ball and had a 58-yard FG attempt at the end to win it but missed. Not as big a game from a undefeated/Giants perspective, but maybe the craziest finish I've ever seen in a Pats game -- 02 Bears and 07 Ravens and 98 Bills are up there as well.Re JetBlue flight video, that was me except I didn't have a seat belt on so I could jump up and down. When was the last regular season game with such an exhilarating finish? Brady's last second pass to Kenbrell Thompkins with about 5 seconds left to beat New Orleans in 2013 maybe?
I was at that Browns game, brought my then 17 year old son to his first Pats game. The Pats were playing so poorly up to that point that I actually told him I wanted to leave to get ahead of traffic. Yes, I was being a little spoiled brat. He told me he wanted to stay to the end, so we did. And after the game, I thanked him profusely for making me stay. We were sitting on the end of the field where the Pats scored their last 2 TDs. It was very memorable for both of us.I just posted about this in the Game Ball thread, but the Cleveland game in 2013 was insane. It was overshadowed by the Gronk injury, but the Pats went down 26-14 with 2:30 to go and scored a TD recovered the onside kick, and scored another TD to win it.... Except they scored so fast that the Browns actually moved the ball and had a 58-yard FG attempt at the end to win it but missed. Not as big a game from a undefeated/Giants perspective, but maybe the craziest finish I've ever seen in a Pats game -- 02 Bears and 07 Ravens and 98 Bills are up there as well.
I think that is a valid comment, but I would argue that it is mostly about salary management. NFL rosters have significantly more players than those of other sports. Belichick really puts an emphasis on depth and special teams and less emphasis on splashy free agent signings and big contracts for 'star' players.This article - highlighted in another thread - talks about dynasty near-misses. Most times, teams peak and then fade - witness the recent Celtics and Bruins championship teams, or the Rice/Lynn/etc. Sox of the 70s, which didn't win but were damn good.
Belichick has managed to avoid the flame-outs that the teams in the article (Rams, Pack, Bucs - and now maybe Seattle?) went through. A big part of that is TB12, but BB himself is likely the biggest factor. One of the comments wonders whether turning over the roster rather than keeping the band together is a better approach, and I think there's something to that...and it's certainly consistent with BB's 'a year too early rather than a year too late' approach to roster construction.
I have a lot of concert footage, and it annoys me when people say negative things about it. If you have good hand-eye coordination, you can get fairly steady, centered video without having to watch the screen.Totally off topic, but just watching that I'm reminded of the Louis CK bit about people watching their kids perform through an iPhone instead of actually watching it. I can't even grasp the concept of paying hundreds of dollars for a Super Bowl ticket and then watching it on the four inch screen of my phone to make sure I got good FB material. And half the other people in screen shots were also doing it.
I appreciate being able to view it, I just don't understand it.
It's crazy to me that I learn learn so much from a man who never spoke to me or even thought about me. Outstanding.From yesterday's BB press conference transcript, in response to the question "With the injuries you've had, do you pull a guy aside and talk to him about the next-man-up mentality or is that something that is expected with the Patriots?" - a great illustration of why Belichick is a great coach:
"Look, every player that's in that room has a job to do and they have a role on the team and they're all important and they know that. They know that from day one. There's no grey area there. It's black and white. We all have a job to do. That's why we're here. We're not fans. We all have something to contribute to the team. That's being ready to go to do whatever it is that the team needs you to do. It could be something on Wednesday. It could be something on Thursday. It could be something on Sunday. Whatever it is we all need to be ready to do that. Those things may change from week to week, they may change from day to day and that's part of being prepared and being ready. That's everybody. There is nobody that's not in the category – nobody."
Edit - sorry, forgot the link: http://www.patriots.com/news/2015/11/25/bill-belichick-press-conference-transcript-1125
Agree 100%. That drive showed a ton of heart and resolve. Now that the long term goal still appears to be in play, think the adversity will serve them well going forward. Love this effing team.I just posted on another forum (multi-teams represented) that the Gronk injury and the realization of what that may mean to the longer term goal, stole the enjoyment of what was really an amazing clutch drive under highly adverse conditions.
I think that that level of turnover is not at all uncommon. A few years back, (maybe after 2007-2008?), I looked at the Pats turnover and it seemed like it was regularly about 1/3 (17/53) new faces each year just to start the season. Throw in in-season turnover as well as the low average career for an NFL player (something like 4 years IIRC) and an 83% turnover in six years actually seems almost low, especially when you consider that you are including the PS.We know about the four Super Bowl championships (which are more important than anything else here), but look at how consistently excellent the Patriots have been. Last six seasons' regular season records:
2010 - 14-2, lost divisional round
2011 - 13-3, lost Super Bowl
2012 - 12-4, lost AFCCG
2013 - 12-4, lost AFCCG
2014 - 12-4, won Super Bowl
2015 - 11-2
They'll finish with 12+ wins again this year, making it six years in a row with 12 or more victories. The great 49ers teams that had the great run in the 80s and 90s never had more than three straight seasons with 12+ wins. Only the Indianapolis Colts from 2003-2009 had a longer run (12-4, 12-4, 14-2, 12-4, 13-3, 12-4, 14-2).
And think about the turnover from the 2010 roster till now. Here are the players from 2010 that are still on the roster now:
That's 11 of 65 players listed on pro-football-reference.com. They've turned over 54 players in a six year span (83%) and still maintained an incredibly high level of performance.
I don't think the point is the turnover itself. Its the remarkable fact that despite the high rate of player turnover that *every* team goes through, the Patriots run has continued unabated without the mediocrity interregnum that every team seems to have as they inevitably re-tool. Some are shorter than others (Pittsburgh, Baltimore), and some seem to go on forever (Buffalo) but 15-year runs like this are nearly unprecedented.I think that that level of turnover is not at all uncommon. A few years back, (maybe after 2007-2008?), I looked at the Pats turnover and it seemed like it was regularly about 1/3 (17/53) new faces each year just to start the season. Throw in in-season turnover as well as the low average career for an NFL player (something like 4 years IIRC) and an 83% turnover in six years actually seems almost low, especially when you consider that you are including the PS.
Agreed.I don't think the point is the turnover itself. Its the remarkable fact that despite the high rate of player turnover that *every* team goes through, the Patriots run has continued unabated without the mediocrity interregnum that every team seems to have as they inevitably re-tool. Some are shorter than others (Pittsburgh, Baltimore), and some seem to go on forever (Buffalo) but 15-year runs like this are nearly unprecedented.
Yep. This is the key. Excellent and consistent management and coaching, and an all-time great QB. Excellence and stability at the two most important points of the organization.Agreed.
The two most important elements, of course, are two where the Patriots have fortunately been able to avoid any turnover: head coach and starting QB.
... You know those people at work who aren't really dumb but aren't that bright either, who just keep doing things the way they have always done them because that's the way they have always done them? They've been around a long time and they know the details of the systems/products/whatever they work with so they're pretty effective at their jobs, but they aren't deep thinkers or innovators or anything more than a cog in the machine.
As best I can tell, that's almost every coach in the league for the last 25 years.
They've had some success due primarily to experience rather than actual intelligence and because they work hard at doing what they have always done, they assume they're working as hard and as smart as everyone else when they aren't.
The perfect example is the end of last year's Super Bowl. I don't remember all the details, but Seattle mismanaged the clock so they had to take a time out to avoid a penalty which meant they couldn't stop the clock after a running play which meant they had to throw the ball if they were going to get four chances.
Meanwhile all the coaches on the New England sideline knew the Seattle formation meant pass, and got Butler into the game, and Butler--a backup going into the game--recognized the play because he had practiced it that week, and knew where he had to be to make the play.
Then with the line of scrimmage so close to the end zone every single one of us was worried about a safety even on a safe run-into-the-line-and-fall-down play, the Seattle players were undisciplined enough to commit a penalty and give the Pats five yards and make the safety much less likely.
A two time super-bowl coach with one of the best teams in the league mismanages the clock and hasn't instilled enough discipline in his team for them not to commit stupid penalties in the last seconds of the championship game.
The other guy not only had someone identify the plays Seattle used in those situations, but had his backup cornerback practice them.
Belichick is just better at this. He's better at hiring coaches. He's better at picking players. He's better at preparing players. He's actually smart and competent and willing to do something new if he's convinced it's what it will take to win the game and he's competing against people who are just good at doing what they have always done. When he has good players he's going to have a good team. When he has one of the best players ever at the most important position in the game he's going to have a level of success that other coaches can't even dream of.
But because the other coaches, players, and management are limited in their mindset, they can't see that he actually is better than them and think it must be some combination of cheating and luck.
The Patriots didn't start winning Super Bowls until 2001 and are two miracle catches away from being tied for the most super bowl wins ever with a team that started winning them in 1974.