CB Sherman Watch: BB No Longer Interested?

[RedOctober3829]

Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 10m10 minutes ago
Nothing imminent in terms of the Seahawks trading Richard Sherman, per source. However, it's a very real possibility closer to the draft
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 9m9 minutes ago
The Patriots have some interest in Sherman, per source, but wouldn't be expected to be on full pursuit unless they lose Malcolm Butler.
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 8m8 minutes ago
The Seahawks have received greater interest from teams other than the Pats. But again, with time for Butler to play out, that could change.
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 6m6 minutes ago
And finally, Richard Sherman would be amenable to a trade to the Patriots if it ever came to that.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I'd rather keep Butler.

 

[tims4wins]

I'd rather keep Butler.

Ditto

 

[pappymojo]

I'd rather keep Butler.

If Belichick thinks it is the right move, I could certainly be convinced that a 6'6" Sherman is a better fit for the Patriots than a 5'11' Butler especially with a 6'0" Gilmore on the opposite side of the field.

P.S. I have no idea how accurate those heights are.

 

[bankshot1]

Sherman is 6'3 and 2 years older than Butler.

All things being equal, (and they never are) I'd prefer Butler (and extend him) rather than trading picks for 2 years of Sherman.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

You also have to wonder why a smart organization like Seattle is willing to trade it's superstar CB.

 

[E5 Yaz]

You also have to wonder why a smart organization like Seattle is willing to trade it's superstar CB.

Probably for one of the same reasons the Patriots trade guys who can still play.

 

[DJnVa]

Sherman is 6'3 and 2 years older than Butler.

All things being equal, (and they never are) I'd prefer Butler (and extend him) rather than trading picks for 2 years of Sherman.

Sure, but there are variables there we don't know about--Butler's demand for a new contract. The Patriots surely know. Sherman gives you the knowledge that you are covered at a fixed cost for 2 seasons.

The Patriots checking into this is just smart business. They *may* have a need a CB. The Seahawks *may* want to deal Sherman.

My preference is Butler on an offer sheet and then franchised--2 years about $22 million through age 29. Sherman would be 2 years about $27 million through age 31.

 

[Saints Rest]

I'm a bit surprised by this reaction. Richard Sherman is arguably the best CB in the NFL, and shows little to no sign of decline. Yes, he's tow years older than Butler, but I don't think they are in the same category as players.

However, I don't see how the Pats could possibly have enough ammo to get Sherman, short of turning any return on Butler and/or JG into Sherman.

What would one think Seattle would need to trade Sherman?

Sherman is owed base salaries of $11.4 million this season and $11 million in 2018 before he becomes a free agent in the spring of 2019.
As best I can figure out, Seattle would have over $9M in dead money (which could be spread over two seasons). Source.

John Schneider, Seahawks GM, admits that talks have been had about trading Sherman.

 

[mwonow]

I'm a bit surprised by this reaction. Richard Sherman is arguably the best CB in the NFL, and shows little to no sign of decline. Yes, he's tow years older than Butler, but I don't think they are in the same category as players.

However, I don't see how the Pats could possibly have enough ammo to get Sherman, short of turning any return on Butler and/or JG into Sherman.

What would one think Seattle would need to trade Sherman?

Sherman is owed base salaries of $11.4 million this season and $11 million in 2018 before he becomes a free agent in the spring of 2019.
As best I can figure out, Seattle would have over $9M in dead money (which could be spread over two seasons). Source.

John Schneider, Seahawks GM, admits that talks have been had about trading Sherman.

I'm pretty much here, too. Sherman and Gilmore would be a tremendous corner duo, and I don't think the $5M over two years difference that DrewDawg highlighted would dissuade me from swapping Sherman in for Butler. But...what would need to go back the other way? If it's Butler, heck, I'll call him an Uber, Butler's good but Sherman's an upgrade - but I don't think Seattle would do that 1:1, needing to franchise or re-sign Butler as part of the deal. Other than that - Pats don't have a 1 or a 2 this year, Jimmy G's not a fit for a team that already has Wilson...IDK, SHreman sounds good in the same way that a vacation in the Seychelles sounds nice, but I'm not sure how to get from here to there.

 

[Otto]

Sherman wants a new contract, which is why Seattle is telling the world about trade talks.

Sherman wants to call their bluff, so "sources" say he would be open to trades to XYZ teams.

More to the point, would New England want to give Sherman the new contract he wants?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Sherman wants a new contract, which is why Seattle is telling the world about trade talks.

Sherman wants to call their bluff, so "sources" say he would be open to trades to XYZ teams.

More to the point, would New England want to give Sherman the new contract he wants?

If he wants a new deal, I'm not sure the Patriots would pony up. He's 29 years old so how much longer is he going to be elite? I'd certainly trade for him and let him play out his current deal but any years beyond that I wouldn't be comfortable with.

 

[Van Everyman]

I , for one, would welcome a 7'1" Richard Sherman to the Patriots.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Zo says Sherman's agent is Ben Dogra aka Adrian Peterson's agent. Might the visit with Peterson be connected?

 

[Captaincoop]

This defense would be incredible if they added a 7'5" Richard Sherman opposite Gilmore.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This defense would be incredible if they added a 7'5" Richard Sherman opposite Gilmore.

Can't they just extend Butler to 6'3"?

 

[BigSoxFan]

I'd be comfortable giving Sherman a 4 year deal. He doesn't seem like someone who will stop caring like "2-4". The thought of a secondary with ball hawks like McCourty, Harmon, Sherman, Gilmore is pretty enticing. Not sure how we'd acquire him given our lack of draft capital. A Butler trade would almost certainly have to occur in connection with this.

 

[sezwho]

This defense would be incredible if they added a 7'5" Richard Sherman opposite Gilmore.

It's all about the 7'7" wingspan

 

[loshjott]

This defense would be incredible if they added a 7'5" Richard Sherman opposite Gilmore.

Surely the tallest secondary in history.

 

[doc]

Sherman with his arms spread wide.
Gilmore and Sherman at the Blade.
Belichick, when the walls fell

 

[E5 Yaz]

Sherman with his arms spread wide.
Gilmore and Sherman at the Blade.
Belichick, when the walls fell

Butler, his sails unfurled

 

[doc]

Actually it should be

Bellichick with his fist open.
Bellichick with his fist closed.
Goodell, when the walls fell.

 

[pappymojo]

Sherman is 6'3 and 2 years older than Butler.

All things being equal, (and they never are) I'd prefer Butler (and extend him) rather than trading picks for 2 years of Sherman.

Sorry. My google somehow brought up Richard Seymour even though I typed in Richard Sherman. I assume it's a browser-history thing or, perhaps more likely, a user-not-paying-attention thing.

 

[Stuffy McInnis]

It's all about the 7'7" wingspan

The next generation in NFL medicine:

My brother actually had this done, therapeutically though.

 

[dbn]

I'd rather keep Butler.

You mad, bro?

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I'm on board with adding the 8'2" Sherman. Paired with Gilmore, it would be the best secondary 1-2 in the league. It's not very likely though.

 

[wibi]

You also have to wonder why a smart organization like Seattle is willing to trade it's superstar CB.

You must have missed the two games where Sherman tore the coaches a new one on the sideline during the game. Week 6 and week 15 if my memory serves correctly.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Not sure where you guys are getting these weird heights for Sherman....Guinness has him second only to Robert Wadlow.

Count me in. Brady gets him on his TB12 program, BB extends him, and they both ride off into the sunset in 7 years with another 3 rings (at least).

 

[Pandemonium67]

Sherman is a damn good CB and seems pretty smart, but the way he bashed his coaches -- D coordinator, O coordinator, and Carroll -- makes him seem like a poor fit for NE. Had it been just once it would be easy to gloss over, but twice feels like the makings of a problem.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

If we were to get him, it'd be the football equivalent of David Wells playing for the Sox for me and my fandom. Would be very hard to fully root for him. Also, don't think he's capable of keeping his mouth shut on the sidelines.

 

[dcmissle]

Sherman is a damn good CB and seems pretty smart, but the way he bashed his coaches -- D coordinator, O coordinator, and Carroll -- makes him seem like a poor fit for NE. Had it been just once it would be easy to gloss over, but twice feels like the makings of a problem.

His agenda extends well beyond being an elite corner. He's a self styled smart guy and all purpose critic. I don't think the Pats would lose a second of sleep over the Goodell bashing; BB wouldn't care and Kraft might enjoy it. Coach bashing, not so much, and I don't see him being muffled.

 

[Al Zarilla]

If we were to get him, it'd be the football equivalent of David Wells playing for the Sox for me and my fandom. Would be very hard to fully root for him. Also, don't think he's capable of keeping his mouth shut on the sidelines.

I'm happy that Belichick, Brady, et al have no such misgivings. If a guy can play, bring him over.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Surely the tallest secondary in history.

I'm sure I'll be calling Stephon 'Artis' in the heat of battle this fall and winter.

 

[Saints Rest]

Sherman is a damn good CB and seems pretty smart, but the way he bashed his coaches -- D coordinator, O coordinator, and Carroll -- makes him seem like a poor fit for NE. Had it been just once it would be easy to gloss over, but twice feels like the makings of a problem.

Really?
This is the team that brought on Randy Moss and Corey Dillon, among others, with ZERO issues, and HUGE payoffs.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Really?
This is the team that brought on Randy Moss and Corey Dillon, among others, with ZERO issues, and HUGE payoffs.

Yeah, I can definitely see the argument for Butler over Sherman but if Butler has one foot out the door, replacing him with Sherman would be a great Plan B. If the Pats can improve their QB pressure, that secondary would be suffocating.

Sherman has been outspoken but has no other blemishes. I think he'd be one of the most popular Patriots in recent memory if we were able to acquire him.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

This strikes me as one of those rumors that perhaps has a very minor basis in fact based on something someone may have said, but in the end turns into a huge nothing.

I can't imagine the Patriots would have something to trade for Sherman anyway now that they have traded away their top draft picks.

 

[Pandemonium67]

This is the team that brought on Randy Moss and Corey Dillon, among others, with ZERO issues, and HUGE payoffs.

Two things. First, the price factor for both Moss and Dillon was pretty minor compared to what (I expect) Sherman would cost. I think his price would be at least Butler (wouldn't that be an interesting swap?) or a high draft pick.

Second, Sherman has become somewhat of a persona non grata in Seattle because of repeated coach bashing -- actually yelling at the coaches on the sideline. I think that's a bit different from Moss and Dillon.

Personally, I'm a major proponent of BB Knows Best. If he thinks Sherman is a fit, that's good enough for me. He's certainly a great coverage guy and he doesn't mind getting dirty by tackling. So, sign me up. My post was simply wondering if the coach-bashing would turn the Pats off.

I also wonder if the Pats' interest in Sherman is partly to pressure NO to give up more than they would like to for Butler. Or maybe it's just to see what the options are should Butler sign an offer sheet somewhere.

 

[DavidTai]

Actually it should be

Bellichick with his fist open.
Bellichick with his fist closed.
Goodell, when the walls fell.

Patriots and Jets at Thanksgiving.
Sanchez, when the butt fumbles.
Ryan, at rest.

 

[wibi]

Zo says Sherman's agent is Ben Dogra aka Adrian Peterson's agent. Might the visit with Peterson be connected?

Sherman kicked Dogra to the cub when Dogra was facing NFLPA sanctions. Sherman reps himself now

 

[RedOctober3829]

Sherman kicked Dogra to the cub when Dogra was facing NFLPA sanctions. Sherman reps himself now

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Really?
This is the team that brought on Randy Moss and Corey Dillon, among others, with ZERO issues, and HUGE payoffs.

There were zero issues with Moss?

 

[phenweigh]

If we were to get him, it'd be the football equivalent of David Wells playing for the Sox for me and my fandom. Would be very hard to fully root for him. Also, don't think he's capable of keeping his mouth shut on the sidelines.

I ended up liking Wells, much to my own surprise.

 

[slamminsammya]

Can anyone with more football knowledge than me explain to what extent Sherman is a product of Seattles system, and how he might fit in with what is supposedly a different defense in New England? Seattle plays a ton of cover 3, right?

 

[Van Everyman]

If Seattle doesn't want Sherman? Send him our way. I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That's what makes championship players.

 

[Devizier]

If Seattle doesn't want Sherman? Send him our way. I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That's what makes championship players.

everything except his age, really. Yeah, there are exceptions but that is a legitimate risk with acquiring a guy like Sherman at the cost that he'll demand. If he is willing to play without an extension, that risk is mitigated.

 

[DanoooME]

Can anyone with more football knowledge than me explain to what extent Sherman is a product of Seattles system, and how he might fit in with what is supposedly a different defense in New England? Seattle plays a ton of cover 3, right?

Yes they do. Basically Sherman stays on one side of the field and covers the guy between the numbers and the sideline. He is really good at using the sideline as a "double team". He is also really good with his hands and staying with his man without getting nailed with a lot of holding/interference/illegal contact penalties. He's also really good at reading the QB and he spends a lot of time in the film room studying offensive tendencies. He's definitely not a slot guy, because his strength isn't covering a guy one-on-one across the field as he doesn't have a ton of speed. For a corner, he's an excellent run defender, probably one of the best in the business. He will, on occasion, cover one specific receiver and generally does well in those situations.

Personally I'd hate to see him leave Seattle, but with the dissension with the coaching staff Wibi mentioned above, it might be time. He's the perfect fit in the Seattle system, but I think he'd still be pretty damn good in another type of system. I don't think the Pats are going to be in this because I don't think they have the right draft capital Seattle would want. Seattle will want an overpay to deal him, including a top 15 pick to draft his replacement. Cleveland's really the best fit in terms of compensation, but I don't know if they are that interested.

 

[bakahump]

While I get the concern (and realize actaully getting Sherman is still an infant pipe dream) I am pretty confident that BB and the coaches will tweak any schemes to maximize a players talents.

IMHO there are basically 2 types of players. Guys who you acquire because they compliment what your doing (with no changes) and your anticipated cost vs production seems to be on the plus side. Or Star/difference makers whom you tweak what you do to fit them into your team.

You use the former and latter to make the sum greater then the whole.

I think Moss was a great example. With Moss the offense suddenly became very vertical. Welker is the other side. BB realized what Moss could add and by adding essentially a journey man slot WR a juggernaut was born. The true genius was marrying Moss(taking doubles deep) and Welker destroying teams underneath for 1st downs.

Once you perfect that then you can then go in a myriad of directions. Do we look for another "Welker" (Edelman, Dola)? Do we look for another Deep Threat?
No.
Gronk came along and BB realized he had another difference maker and suddenly the offense focused on the TE.

Long thought short, if they did acquire Sherman and Sherman was only REALLY REALLY good at Cover 3, BB and the team would figure out how to maximize that. And that may include the defense starting to suddenly run alot of cover 3.

Now i doubt that Sherman can only be effective at what Seattle is doing. But the point remains, for superstars you make changes to your scheme if necessary. For "JAGs" you look for guys whose contribution will be maximized by adding them to your stars.

 

[Red Averages]

Great post

 

[RetractableRoof]

Yes they do. Basically Sherman stays on one side of the field and covers the guy between the numbers and the sideline. He is really good at using the sideline as a "double team". He is also really good with his hands and staying with his man without getting nailed with a lot of holding/interference/illegal contact penalties. He's also really good at reading the QB and he spends a lot of time in the film room studying offensive tendencies. He's definitely not a slot guy, because his strength isn't covering a guy one-on-one across the field as he doesn't have a ton of speed. For a corner, he's an excellent run defender, probably one of the best in the business. He will, on occasion, cover one specific receiver and generally does well in those situations.

Personally I'd hate to see him leave Seattle, but with the dissension with the coaching staff Wibi mentioned above, it might be time. He's the perfect fit in the Seattle system, but I think he'd still be pretty damn good in another type of system. I don't think the Pats are going to be in this because I don't think they have the right draft capital Seattle would want. Seattle will want an overpay to deal him, including a top 15 pick to draft his replacement. Cleveland's really the best fit in terms of compensation, but I don't know if they are that interested.

I think you are looking at the situation on the field/locker room as the driving force behind a move off Sherman. Every team would want an overpay for its auction - the problem in Seattle is the entire league knows they've got serious cap issues. The players they have coming due for money in the next 2 years is also pretty much a list of their best players. They had little to no offensive line late in the season last year because they gambled there financially thinking Wilson's mobility would cover for limitations. They need line help, they are in an impending financial jam, the league knows selling Sherman and drafting his replacement in a supposedly heavy CB draft is in of their few moves. I think they have little leverage in selling off Sherman in that environment - unless a GM on the hot seat panics and overpays. It won't be BB overpaying - but if no one is overpaying then maybe BB/NEP would be showing real interest.

 

[RetractableRoof]

Sherman is a damn good CB and seems pretty smart, but the way he bashed his coaches -- D coordinator, O coordinator, and Carroll -- makes him seem like a poor fit for NE. Had it been just once it would be easy to gloss over, but twice feels like the makings of a problem.

BB doesn't have an issue with players having a fierce desire to win... didn't we see Brady and O'Brien jawing at each other a few times? As far as I can guess Sherman lost confidence in the coaching staff when they screwed up the Superbowl. I don't think he comes to NE, but if he did he'd have no issues fitting in.