Cavs Sign Tacko Fall

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I’m surprised on a highly analytical board such as this there wouldn’t be more on board with the math behind this possibility. What is the average trajectory on a kick from 35, 45, and 55 yards and would Tacko’s fingertips be in that zone with proper D-line blocking execution? There apparently are people given the project to know these numbers. Another thing to also consider is how it would affect a teams end of 1H and game approach to getting inside the 40 for a long FGA.
The question is what the math says.

This website - https://us.humankinetics.com/blogs/excerpt/proper-contact-with-ball-is-important-for-the-kicker - says that "[o]ptimal trajectory means obtaining maximum height and distance on the football to clear 10 feet easily from a 7-yard distance. An extra point or field goal is kicked 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage, where the potential blockers are swarming. Oncoming rushers can jump about 10 feet in the air. Thus, once the kick is on its way it must immediately climb above 10 feet before it travels 7 yards."

From this website, I found the table below that has height, trajectory, and distance. So maybe people have already figured it out; I will be interested.
45257
 

Phil Plantier

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View: https://youtu.be/BgxzkjmZHDY?t=46


This is the best view I could find so far. Looks like it's about 12' high after 9 yards.

Field goals are kicked from 8 yards behind the LOS, and then give the basketball player another 2 yards so they don't get creamed. I don't think it works. But I'm sure the Eagles know way more than I do.
 

DJnVa

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So at 6 meters, the ball should be 5-6 meters high for optimal distance? Wow.

These are hypothetical, right? Otherwise like 1 in 10,000 kicks would be blocked.
Well, 1 in10,000 if no one is rushing---lots of kicked are blocked like 3 feet away from the holder.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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So at 6 meters, the ball should be 5-6 meters high for optimal distance? Wow.

These are hypothetical, right? Otherwise like 1 in 10,000 kicks would be blocked.
Yes hypothetical and doesn't factor in weather conditions.

Popular Mechanics did a breakdown of Alex Henry (PHI) in 2012 here - https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a8610/anatomy-of-a-field-goal-15044000/ - and said that the average kick in the NFL has a trajectory of 27 to 42 degrees (while Henry's kicks were between 31 and 41 degrees).
 

HomeRunBaker

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View: https://youtu.be/BgxzkjmZHDY?t=46


This is the best view I could find so far. Looks like it's about 12' high after 9 yards.

Field goals are kicked from 8 yards behind the LOS, and then give the basketball player another 2 yards so they don't get creamed. I don't think it works. But I'm sure the Eagles know way more than I do.
This is assuming that Tacko would simply stand 2 yards behind the line which wouldn’t be how the defense would execute. I’d imagine they would stuff the middle to get some penetration to allow for Tacko to get a running start and take off close to the line of scrimmage. He isn’t going to get blocked with this strategy as the only contact he’d have would be wherever he lands. He’d have a greater risk of turning an ankle on a land than he would being blocked by a real live football player if executed properly.
 

Smokey Joe

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This is assuming that Tacko would simply stand 2 yards behind the line which wouldn’t be how the defense would execute. I’d imagine they would stuff the middle to get some penetration to allow for Tacko to get a running start and take off close to the line of scrimmage. He isn’t going to get blocked with this strategy as the only contact he’d have would be wherever he lands. He’d have a greater risk of turning an ankle on a land than he would being blocked by a real live football player if executed properly.
It sucks to be a long snapper.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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10.7 feet at 7 yards. 12.23 feet at 8.
Thanks again. So if Tacko's team got what, a yard and half of penetration so that Tacko would be at the LOS AND the penetration occurred in time for Tacko to be at the LOS before the ball AND Tacko timed his jump perfectly AND the kicker kicked a low trajectory ball, then Tacko would have a chance to block it as his standing reach is something like 10'4".

Since we're discussing, wouldn't TL be a better candidate than Tacko - i.e., can't he jump higher than Tacko? I don't think Tacko is getting anywhere close to the top of the backboard when he jumps. Tacko's advantage is that he doesn't have to jump to block shots.
 

djbayko

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Thanks again. So if Tacko's team got what, a yard and half of penetration so that Tacko would be at the LOS AND the penetration occurred in time for Tacko to be at the LOS before the ball AND Tacko timed his jump perfectly AND the kicker kicked a low trajectory ball, then Tacko would have a chance to block it as his standing reach is something like 10'4".

Since we're discussing, wouldn't TL be a better candidate than Tacko - i.e., can't he jump higher than Tacko? I don't think Tacko is getting anywhere close to the top of the backboard when he jumps. Tacko's advantage is that he doesn't have to jump to block shots.
TL was already discussed yesterday.
 

TripleOT

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I was a kicker, and used to start a practice session from seven yards in front of the goal posts, to make sure my trajectory was good enough to avoid blocks.

Tacko set the combine report by touching 12’5” the highest ever recorded, and his vertical was 26.5, I’m guessing his two hands up standing jump would be 12-15” so with his 10’2” standing reach, if he positioned in front of the center and just jumped up with no penetration, his fingertips would be at 11’2” to 11’5” at 8-8.5 yards from the kick, which certainly could pose a problem

It would be very difficult for kickers to change their trajectory for one opponent. One solution would be to move the spot back a yard or two, which, with the skills of today’s long snappers, could be doable, but could cause continuity problems with that unit.

I don’t know if an NFL team will ever burn a roster spot for something like this, but if they did, they certainly should have a player like Tacko as a WR on the goal line in passing downs, like third and goal from the five yard line. Assuming he could get off the line of scrimmage, the alley oop pass would be difficult to defend without pass interference
 

djbayko

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I was a kicker, and used to start a practice session from seven yards in front of the goal posts, to make sure my trajectory was good enough to avoid blocks.

Tacko set the combine report by touching 12’5” the highest ever recorded, and his vertical was 26.5, I’m guessing his two hands up standing jump would be 12-15” so with his 10’2” standing reach, if he positioned in front of the center and just jumped up with no penetration, his fingertips would be at 11’2” to 11’5” at 8-8.5 yards from the kick, which certainly could pose a problem

It would be very difficult for kickers to change their trajectory for one opponent. One solution would be to move the spot back a yard or two, which, with the skills of today’s long snappers, could be doable, but could cause continuity problems with that unit.

I don’t know if an NFL team will ever burn a roster spot for something like this, but if they did, they certainly should have a player like Tacko as a WR on the goal line in passing downs, like third and goal from the five yard line. Assuming he could get off the line of scrimmage, the alley oop pass would be difficult to defend without pass interference
The goal line stuff would require coordination that I don’t think Tacko has at the moment. He’s going to drop a lot of passes and not even get to others. Could he learn it? Maybe after a long time. But I’m pretty sure you’d have to assume he’s limited to one task at the outset.
 
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TripleOT

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The goal line stuff would require coordination that I don’t think Tacko has at the moment. He’s going to drop a lot of passes and jot even get to others. Could he learn it? Maybe after a long time. But I’m pretty sure you’d have to assume he’s limited to one task at the outset.
The only way it would probably work is him catching one pass, a ten yard end zone sideline fade, which is where the term alley oop originated. He would be high pointing one particular catch at over 11 feet from the ground. If he could be coached to place his giant hands into a proper web, with thumbs and index fingers together, that would be quite a target. It would be difficult for a defender to make a play through his arms at such a high point.

I don’t see Tacko drifting after wrong shoulder Russell Wilson bombs, but he’s a good athlete and could possibly be taught how to make that one catch. (I coached for a decade, including receivers).
 

Phil Plantier

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The only way it would probably work is him catching one pass, a ten yard end zone sideline fade, which is where the term alley oop originated. He would be high pointing one particular catch at over 11 feet from the ground. If he could be coached to place his giant hands into a proper web, with thumbs and index fingers together, that would be quite a target. It would be difficult for a defender to make a play through his arms at such a high point.

I don’t see Tacko drifting after wrong shoulder Russell Wilson bombs, but he’s a good athlete and could possibly be taught how to make that one catch. (I coached for a decade, including receivers).
As a non-coach: couldn't the other team just jam him at the line? How does he get into the end zone?
 

Kliq

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The only way it would probably work is him catching one pass, a ten yard end zone sideline fade, which is where the term alley oop originated. He would be high pointing one particular catch at over 11 feet from the ground. If he could be coached to place his giant hands into a proper web, with thumbs and index fingers together, that would be quite a target. It would be difficult for a defender to make a play through his arms at such a high point.

I don’t see Tacko drifting after wrong shoulder Russell Wilson bombs, but he’s a good athlete and could possibly be taught how to make that one catch. (I coached for a decade, including receivers).
Sounds like a good time to re-post Willie Caulie-Stein's High School football highlights:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNZtUGl4Ko
 

djbayko

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As a non-coach: couldn't the other team just jam him at the line? How does he get into the end zone?
And this is part of what I mean. There’s a lot more he has to learn than running to a spot and putting his huge arms up (and even in that unrealistically simple situation, I’d have coordination concerns).
 

joe dokes

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Much to my chagrin, it seems the block-the-FG-while-standing-under-the-goalpost is no longer legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Stroud

In five seasons between 1970 and 1974, Stroud caught 54 passes for 977 yards, seven touchdowns, and averaged 18.1 yards per reception. However, Stroud became a notable special teams player—specifically at blocking field goals. On many opponents' field goal attempts, Stroud lined up under the goalposts and tried to deflect the ball as it came down. Later rule changes led to the adoption of Rule 12, Section 3, Article 1 (informally known as the "Stroud Rule"): "Goal tending by any player leaping up to deflect a kick as it passes above the crossbar of a goal post is prohibited. The referee may award 3 points for a palpably unfair act".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Stroud#cite_note-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Stroud#cite_note-2

Stroud died in 2017. In his honor (but mostly to hear John Facenda and that great NFL Films music).....
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_CaMWk6j1I


OK, sorry. Back to Tacko
 

Euclis20

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It seems noteworthy that there really aren't any effective pass catchers in NFL history taller than 6'7. Other than Stroud, Leonard Pope is the only one I could find (6'8, 105 catches and 11 TDs over 7 seasons). Despite the obvious advantage a 7 foot WR or TE would have lining up across from guys 6-12 inches shorter, their center of gravity is just too high to get off the line effectively.
 

HomeRunBaker

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And this is part of what I mean. There’s a lot more he has to learn than running to a spot and putting his huge arms up (and even in that unrealistically simple situation, I’d have coordination concerns).
This discussion began with insider info of a team(s) considering Tacko as a kick-blocking specialist……not sure there are any intentions to turn him into Taysom Hill LOL!! Kick blocker, goal line wideout Gronk, Hail Mary defender…..are there any limits for this man? Canton?
 

HomeRunBaker

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It seems noteworthy that there really aren't any effective pass catchers in NFL history taller than 6'7. Other than Stroud, Leonard Pope is the only one I could find (6'8, 105 catches and 11 TDs over 7 seasons). Despite the obvious advantage a 7 foot WR or TE would have lining up across from guys 6-12 inches shorter, their center of gravity is just too high to get off the line effectively.
Harold Carmichael hates you.
 

joe dokes

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This discussion began with insider info of a team(s) considering Tacko as a kick-blocking specialist……not sure there are any intentions to turn him into Taysom Hill LOL!! Kick blocker, goal line wideout Gronk, Hail Mary defender…..are there any limits for this man? Canton?
He could work on his skiing at Blue Hills.
 

Smokey Joe

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I’d have to look to see exactly what they are but both college and NFL have rules to protect the long snapper.
In college you can’t touch the long snapper for one second after he snaps the ball. In the NFL you can’t line up directly opposite the long snapper.
It still sucks to be a long snapper.
 

TripleOT

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As a non-coach: couldn't the other team just jam him at the line? How does he get into the end zone?
That’s why I wrote in my first post “Assuming he could get off the line of scrimmage.”

Probably need someone LB or possibly SS size to get a good jam on him. If a hard jam is successful, it’s TD. They could also put him in motion to avoid a hard jam.
 

lexrageorge

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The reason why Tacko is being discussed as a WR specialist is because each of the 46 game day slots and 53 active slots are valuable. There are already 3 spots taken by specialists (P, K, LS) and at least one by a backup QB. Having a "FG block specialist" makes roster juggling harder on cutdown day.

As for Tacko the goal line specialist, it's unclear how well he could break loose from the allowable contact on the line, or at least do so and get in position in time for the QB to make the throw. The ball has to get out quickly, and his presence would certainly telegraph a probably pass.
 

HomeRunBaker

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A quick CAD model shows that at a 27 degree angle, at 10 yards, the ball would be roughly 15 feet in the air.
A team interesting in this project would (should? will?) have this data on every kicker in the league as well as how much penetration up the middle each kicking unit allows. There may be some teams he wouldn’t be active for just as a special teams guy/kick returner or other specialist wouldn’t be active in a specific weeks game plan.