Castro traded to NYY

Murderer's Crow

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Very happy with this. Yankees get an everyday second baseman at a $ cost but I'm okay with seeing Warren and Ryan go. Only question is what we do with Refsynder.
 

Pilgrim

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Warren is solid but Cashman has been pretty good at trading guys like him recently..

My take on the Yankees is they are going to muddle along with decent, younger teams until they drop a bunch of payroll and go nuts in the Harper/Machado offseason.
 

DJnVa

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Very happy with this. Yankees get an everyday second baseman at a $ cost but I'm okay with seeing Warren and Ryan go. Only question is what we do with Refsynder.
You won't be happy watching him play every day. He led the league in outs made in 2011, 2012, and 2013 and last year made outs at a higher percentage than the league leader.
 

jon abbey

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You won't be happy watching him play every day. He led the league in outs made in 2011, 2012, and 2013 and last year made outs at a higher percentage than the league leader.
He is still 25, and possibly turned a corner offensively after being moved fulltime to 2B late last season, with an OPS over .900 after that (very SSS admittedly).
 

hbk72777

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You won't be happy watching him play every day. He led the league in outs made in 2011, 2012, and 2013 and last year made outs at a higher percentage than the league leader.

Players seem to sink or swim in NY, no middle. So hopefully it will be swim and he'll improve like Didi. If he bombs, they didn't give up too much for him. I thought Gardner for sure when I saw the headline.

Ryan was another player that I thought ? "Someone actually wanted him?" I know he's probably a defensive replacement, but his defense was horrid at the end last year. Cashman is good at trading crap.

But I will miss Warren. He's so damn solid, not great but just someone you know wouldn't shit the bed and keep you in the game.

You have to think Cash has another trade in the works. 3 2nd basemen, Ack just got here, Ref must be in a package. I'm guessing for a starter.


Just checked Rotoworld

" Nevertheless, the Yankees have a new second baseman in Castro, who thrived at the position after a move off of shortstop last season, hitting .353/.374/.594 in 44 games while playing better defense. He should like batting at Yankee Stadium."
 
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DJnVa

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He is still 25, and possibly turned a corner offensively after being moved fulltime to 2B late last season, with an OPS over .900 after that (very SSS admittedly).
I mean, maybe the cure for him making outs at that pace was changing defensive positions, but we have 3600 ABs saying that the 115 after moving was likely just a nice stretch, improved by a .360 babip.

I've always liked him for some reason, but so far the only exceptional skill he's shown is making outs.
 

jon abbey

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I mean, maybe the cure for him making outs at that pace was changing defensive positions, but we have 3600 ABs saying that the 115 after moving was likely just a nice stretch, improved by a .360 babip.

I've always liked him for some reason, but so far the only exceptional skill he's shown is making outs.
That is true offensively, but otherwise he's a good defender and is also very durable. It's impressive to me just to have 3700 PAs by the age of 25, and obviously if he was a sure thing, NY wouldn't have been able to get him so cheaply (thank you Billy Beane for that Addison Russell silliness).

Anyway, this has pretty obviously been Cashman's focus since KC made their first WS in 2014, getting younger, better defensively, more athletic with position players He's now managed to turn over 20 percent of the roster in about 12 months (Didi, Ackley, Hicks, Castro) along these lines, while not giving up any of his top prospects (Bird, Severino, Judge, Sanchez, Mateo), and while having not a lot of flexibility with so many spots already occupied by immovable large contravts. Obviously not all of these guys are going to work out as well as Didi has (Ackley might not even be a lock for the roster now), but I think it's the smartest way to go in a time when the majority of FA deals seem to be almost instant millstones.
 

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Absolutely agree with that abbey. There is a concerted effort here of buying low on young players that haven't reached their full potential. There are going to be some misses here and there, but eventually Cashman is going to hit big and he hasn't given up much in the process.
 

DJnVa

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That is true offensively, but otherwise he's a good defender and is also very durable.
Is he?

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/29320/castros-defense-still-a-question
According to ESPN Stats & Information, Castro ranked 16th of 22 shortstops in the league in defensive runs saved with a minus-7 last season.
His dWAR for his career is 1.3, but 1.2 of that comes from one season--so, if that's the outlier, everything else seems pretty average.

I don't know--like I said, I like him, but I can only imagine how frustrating he will be to watch every day.
 

EvilEmpire

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Agree with abbey and Wingack. If Cashman is going to make mistakes, these are the kind I want him making.
 

Wingack

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Also, I didn't realize this but Warren is 28. I thought he was a lot younger than that and that makes me like this deal a lot more.

A pair of 25 year olds as the double play combo is the way you start to build something...
 

nvalvo

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He's always seemed like a Yankee to me, but I think it's actually that he's always reminded me of Soriano.

Absolutely agree with that abbey. There is a concerted effort here of buying low on young players that haven't reached their full potential. There are going to be some misses here and there, but eventually Cashman is going to hit big and he hasn't given up much in the process.
This is smart. They can make a lot of this kind of mistake go away, because *other teams can also afford these players.*
 

AMS25

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I've had Starlin Castro on my Fantasy Team for two seasons. (My daughter drafts my teams for the most part.) He wasn't a big producer and spent a lot of time riding the pine. But, as you all know, Fantasy doesn't measure everything (e.g. defense).
 

Pilgrim

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"Leading the league in outs" is a pretty backwards metric. You're doing something interesting if you are getting that many ABs every year.
 

jon abbey

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Well, he's definitely not a defensive asset at SS, but he'll be playing 2B for NY, where he barely has any track record. He'll almost certainly be a defensive improvement on Ackley/Refsnyder at the very least, Girardi couldn't wait to get those guys out of the game in favor of Stephen Drew or Ryan down the stretch last year, Castro should be at least average if not better, but we'll see.
 

jon abbey

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Again, if guys like Castro and Hicks and Ackley were living up to their promise, Cashman wouldn't be able to pry them away so cheaply. NY is betting on the age curve as much as anything, keep bringing in 25 year old guys with a ton of talent and give them a shot in a new setting. It's pretty smart given NY's current situation, and it worked great with Didi and Eovaldi last year.
 

DJnVa

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"Leading the league in outs" is a pretty backwards metric. You're doing something interesting if you are getting that many ABs every year.
What was he doing? In 2 of the last 3 seasons his OBP was below .300. He's 9 for 18 the last 2 years stealing bases. His defense is average.

If "making outs" is backwards, I'd love to hear what he was doing to offset that. And I'm not being snarky.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Castro is clearly flawed, but his talent and youth make him a solid gamble, as had already been mentioned.

Seems like a good trade for the mfy. Warren is solid, but his ceiling is below castro's.
 

jon abbey

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Slightly less keen on this after seeing that Castro is owed $40M for the next four seasons, but still think it's a smart roll of the dice and at least it's his age 26-29 seasons.
 

Pilgrim

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What was he doing? In 2 of the last 3 seasons his OBP was below .300. He's 9 for 18 the last 2 years stealing bases. His defense is average.

If "making outs" is backwards, I'd love to hear what he was doing to offset that. And I'm not being snarky.
He was a highly regarded SS prospect in his early 20s who hit at the top of a bad lineup. I'm not saying those were secretly great seasons, but he gave the Cubs some 3 WAR years, and there was at least good reason to give him all those at bats. My only beef is "leading the league in outs" makes him sounds like Neifi Perez.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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He was a highly regarded SS in his early 20s who hit at the top of a bad lineup. I'm not saying those were secretly great seasons, but he gave the Cubs some 3 WAR years, and there was at least good reason to give him all those at bats. My only beef is "leading the league in outs" makes him sounds like Neifi Perez.
Your inability to understand what a stat is saying is really beside the point. That he got that many at bats is a product of just what you cited, being a promising young played in the top of a bad lineup. His AB totals show nothing interesting. What he did with those ABs is what you should be looking at. And he put up a lot of empty BA and not much OPS.
 

nvalvo

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Slightly less keen on this after seeing that Castro is owed $40M for the next four seasons, but still think it's a smart roll of the dice and at least it's his age 26-29 seasons.
That's not really a bad deal for a guy with five years of service time, entering his theoretical prime, who can hit about league average and play shortstop.
 

Pilgrim

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Your inability to understand what a stat is saying is really beside the point. That he got that many at bats is a product of just what you cited, being a promising young played in the top of a bad lineup. His AB totals show nothing interesting. What he did with those ABs is what you should be looking at. And he put up a lot of empty BA and not much OPS.
The three years he lead the league in outs he had OPS+ of 111, 102, 73 and bWAR 3.0, 3.4, and -.1. He was 21, 22, and 23. He was actually terrible in 2013, but I don't think the raw number of outs he produced is a fair estimate of what he was doing.

How is that "misunderstanding a stat?" my disagreement was about how meaningful it is.
 
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jon abbey

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A few more things as I read more about this:

Castro led the NL in BA in Sept (.369 BA , 1.055 OPS) after a lousy first five months, but that is harder to get excited about when you notice that he then went 6-34 in the playoffs, a .494 OPS.

The 2015 BP Annual has an interesting writeup on Castro, they attribute his shitty 2013 to a change in hitting coaches and the new coach adjusting Castro's swing which messed him up. That coach was fired, and Castro went back to hitting better in 2014.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Slightly less keen on this after seeing that Castro is owed $40M for the next four seasons, but still think it's a smart roll of the dice and at least it's his age 26-29 seasons.
If I'm not mistaken, that's only 1-2 mill. More in AAV than they were paying for the ghost of Stephen Drew. Not a great contract, but not bad, either. If he averages 2 WAR a season he'll be worth it ( hell, 1.5 WAR would be worth the going rate)
 

jon abbey

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If I'm not mistaken, that's only 1-2 mill. More in AAV than they were paying for the ghost of Stephen Drew. Not a great contract, but not bad, either. If he averages 2 WAR a season he'll be worth it ( hell, 1.5 WAR would be worth the going rate)
Yeah, it's the length of commitment that worries me more than the AAV, but hopefully he'll pan out and it won't be an issue.
 

DJnVa

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My only beef is "leading the league in outs" makes him sounds like Neifi Perez.
You can be a good player and make a lot of outs. And that's because someone that's makes that many outs usually has a reason to keep him in the lineup. But the currency of baseball is bases and outs. Players that make a lot of outs should, in theory, have another valuable skill that helps in the other column--power for extra bases, excellent defense to trade bases for outs for the other team, a good SB%, etc.

For what it's worth, Castro's OBP last season was Neifi Perez's career OBP, and Castro's SLG last season was Perez's career SLG.

I'm not saying Castro sucks at all. I'm just saying he's average. Sometimes that means he'll have a very good season, other times it means he won't. But there's just not a lot of there there.

If he went to any other team, I'd hope he'd figure it all out, but since he's in NY, well, I won't :)
 

Trlicek's Whip

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His career GB% is 49.5.

In 2015 it was a career high 54.1%, with the following splits:

1st half 57.2
2nd half 49.1
Sept/Oct 38.9

HR by month (11 for the season)
Mar/Apr 2
May 1
June 2
July 0
Aug 1
Sept 5

If he can improve on GB% in any way (and prove Sept wasn't inferior pitching and BAIBP sacrifices) he's a lock for 15-20 HR playing half his games in Yankee Stadium.

Either way, I can't wait for Sterling's custom HR call.

 

rembrat

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Why would Castro like hitting in YS? He's a pull hitter so he won't benefit from the Joke in RF and when he gets a hold of one there isn't a ballpark in all of baseball that can hold it. I wonder what Ref can fetch.
 

smastroyin

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I think this is a pretty good deal for NYY and Castro has a good bit of upside potential still (but also a lot of bust potential) but why don't people think a Refs/Ackley combo could get the job done?

It's an honest question, I haven't been paying much attention to the Yankees.
 

jon abbey

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I think this is a pretty good deal for NYY and Castro has a good bit of upside potential still (but also a lot of bust potential) but why don't people think a Refs/Ackley combo could get the job done?

It's an honest question, I haven't been paying much attention to the Yankees.
NY didn't seem sold on either of them defensively there, also Refsnyder is tricky to carry on a roster if he's going to be a platoon player because he only really plays 2B currently. Castro gives them a backup SS and allowed them to not have to carry Brendan Ryan anymore, so you're essentially freeing up one of the four very valuable bench spots for a better hitter.
 

wallypip

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NY didn't seem sold on either of them defensively there, also Refsnyder is tricky to carry on a roster if he's going to be a platoon player because he only really plays 2B currently. Castro gives them a backup SS and allowed them to not have to carry Brendan Ryan anymore, so you're essentially freeing up one of the four very valuable bench spots for a better hitter.
I was wondering how the Yankees would handle Ackley. Instead of being a platoon at 2B, he now offers a lot of bench flexibility because he's a pretty good outfielder and he used to be pretty good at 2B--I have no reason to believe that he still isn't. If the Yankees are pretty confident with that, they could go with a hit-first backup for 3B/1B. Basically, instead of using two roster spots for one position, Ackley can play two bench roles and only use only one roster spot.

Then again, Ackley probably still has enough trade value to fetch the type of middle reliever that the Yankees have been using in recent years.
 

DBB23

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I like this deal a lot for the Yankees Warren was a nice piece but Cashman has been great at finding bullpen arms. Castro had a lot of hype out of the gate and then regressed some. I do not think the change of position is the main factor for his strong final 2 months in the regular season his change in stance is more likely than the change in position. Leading the league in outs does not scare me off a 25 year old middle infielder. Especially when he was getting closer to 700ab than 600 in a season. Also the grind at bats get into the bullpen as early as possible strategy is reversing aggression and swinging early in the count is the new way.

Baseball reference 5 most similar players through age 25 are Fregosi Renteria Zoilo Trammel and Yount, not bad. Only negative I did want to see Ackley get everyday ab I thought the change of scenery getting away from that hitters graveyard in safeco would lead to a 20 homer season in NY. Now it seems he may be the Yankees version of Zobrist and this team is still fragile in the OF 3B DH and 1B till Bird takes over so there may be plenty of abs for him.

Now let's see what he turns Gardner Miller and Nova into if anything. This team is building for 17 16 is just a bridge they'll never admit to.

Sorry if the formatting is bad on my cell.
 

jon abbey

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One thing Cashman said about Castro was that they projected him to 2B even before CHC moved him there, what they saw then only confirmed their thoughts. They have been trying to trade for him since at least the last trading deadline.

Also both Cashman and Castro seemed very sure today that he could handle backup 3B, so their last bench spot seems like it could just be the best hitter available. Maybe they have a shot at Pedro Alvarez after/if BAL gets back Davis?
 

derekson

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