Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

OurF'ingCity

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This is not good. Charlotte only needs to clear 7.5M so this may not even be a S&T. Just the worst case scenario we discussed all week
It is, but another way to think about it is that at some point in the ensuring years Hayward’s salary slot was going away due to the luxury tax. If they had brought back Hayward, or traded for someone with a similar salary, that would just mean in the future they’d have to trade Kemba into some other team’s cap space or not re-sign Smart.
 

Cellar-Door

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Dumb narrative. The Celtics didn't want to keep either of these guys by the end.
Then they should have traded them earlier. That's a legit criticism, losing big money players for nothing is really bad in the NBA. Kyrie was decent because it was getting under the cap for Kemba. This is just generally bad, made worse by it taking so long that the best MLE players signed already
 

Cesar Crespo

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Would a S+T for LaMelo Ball work?

He's at 7.8m but I'm not sure if he counts against the cap yet or what.
 

radsoxfan

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View: https://twitter.com/davidaldridgedc/status/1330220907424526339


Aldridge reporting it's fully guaranteed. It's a crazy contract unless he actually returns to form.
He pretty much already did in the regular season.

The main difference between this contract and his Celtics deal is that his upside is pretty tapped out (given his age) and there is a much higher risk of a flame out given the interval injuries.

When Hayward came to the Celtics there was a real chance he had another level to get to given his trajectory. Never happened, but we'll never know if he would have without the injury.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Then they should have traded them earlier. That's a legit criticism, losing big money players for nothing is really bad in the NBA. Kyrie was decent because it was getting under the cap for Kemba. This is just generally bad, made worse by it taking so long that the best MLE players signed already
Yeah—this is the point I made a day or so ago. I am sure Ainge was actively exploring and perhaps close to keeping Hayward but you really are hurting team short term when you aim high and miss in a cap world.

It also makes the draft choices (meaning, focusing on trades/stash) shakier

We’ll see what contingency he has lined up.
 

scottyno

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Then they should have traded them earlier. That's a legit criticism, losing big money players for nothing is really bad in the NBA. Kyrie was decent because it was getting under the cap for Kemba. This is just generally bad, made worse by it taking so long that the best MLE players signed already
When were they supposed to trade Hayward? The year he was out for the year, the year where he looked like a corpse with 2 max years left or the year where he had no trade value because he had an opt out and they were trying to win a title anyway?

That goes double for kyrie, no idea when you thought they should have traded him even moreso.
 

DJnVa

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We can laugh at Charlotte but if there’s nothing coming back other East contenders are happy.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I like that you jumped in to say there's no way Boston gets Devonte' Graham, an undersized second round pick whose role in the offense with Rozier and Ball in the fold is at the very least murky, then proposed something dramatically more preposterous.

It's good to be back on SoSH.
It was a joke. I don't want Ball.
 

PedroKsBambino

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When were they supposed to trade Hayward? The year he was out for the year, the year where he looked like a corpse with 2 max years left or the year where he had no trade value because he had an opt out and they were trying to win a title anyway?

That goes double for kyrie, no idea when you thought they should have traded him even moreso.
My belief is they had deals this off-season but couldn’t agree on the pieces. I think that’s pretty likely as to Indiana.
 

The Social Chair

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Then they should have traded them earlier. That's a legit criticism, losing big money players for nothing is really bad in the NBA. Kyrie was decent because it was getting under the cap for Kemba. This is just generally bad, made worse by it taking so long that the best MLE players signed already
They were never trading Kyrie.

Gordon maybe should have been moved last summer but the Celtics were worried about developing a reputation for dumping guys after injuries.
 

scottyno

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My belief is they had deals this off-season but couldn’t agree on the pieces. I think that’s pretty likely as to Indiana.
the celtics couldn't trade hayward this offseason without his wanting to go there and being happy about the money
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
I understand. But laughing at an irrelevant Hornets team doesn’t do much for me. Its not like it’s the Sixers or something.
What should we do then? People are going to pile on Danny Ainge, but it’s quite possible the Pacers talk was overblown and not as close as the media portrayed. If GH wanted Indiana that bad and prioritized location over money , he’d have taken the 4/100 deal of that in fact was the offer. He wanted to maximize his earnings which is what every player should do.
 

scottyno

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They were never trading Kyrie.

Gordon maybe should have been moved last summer but the Celtics were worried about developing a reputation for dumping guys after injuries.
Last summer Hayward looked like a bench player with 2 max years left, what were they supposed to move him for that made more sense than hoping he returned to form?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Oh well, I though Kyrie & Horford leaving last year for nothing was a disaster, so what do I know? Danny will figure something out.
 

Imbricus

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On the bright side, this frees up space under the salary cap, right? Or does it not, for some weird reason related to inscrutable cap logic?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If there is no S&T, its suboptimal but laying an aggressive bid by a third party on Ainge is reactionary. The Indiana deal was going to be extremely hard to get done given the parties involved as well as the financial constraints.
 

mauf

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I have to assume Hayward’s agent knew 24 hours ago that Charlotte would be making an offer of this magnitude. Danny was already dead; he just didn’t know it.
 

Sprowl

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On the bright side, this frees up space under the salary cap, right? Or does it not, for some weird reason related to inscrutable cap logic?
It seems like it should free up the Celtics to make mid-season acquisitions of players whose teams underperform expectations.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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I wanted Hayward back but:

1.This contract wasn’t one Ainge should have offered
2. If he goes to Charlotte as a free agent, this hurts Boston quite a bit. Salary structure wise—and I know some others disagree—the Celtics do not have the right distribution of contracts to swing a deal for a salary dump this season. Their middle-market salaries are extremely talented players and not conducive for the type of deals Boston would typically consider to add talent to the roster.
3. It’s hard to know what happened in Hayward’s camp with Bartlestein as agent. Would Hayward have signed for $20 mil less to go to Indiana?
4. Then you add in the Celtics needing to go along with a S&T and it complicates it all the more in terms of motivations of all parties.
5. This hurts Indiana certainly.
6. I assume Semi is back now, which is pretty meh.
 

scottyno

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I’m well aware—reread my post.
But any deal was contingent on hayward wanting to go there. Clearly he didn't want to go to indy that badly or he wouldn't be signing with charlotte today so even if they worked out a deal he still would have had to want to go there over the charlotte money so it doesn't really matter what deals the cs had worked out once he was already a free agent
 

PedroKsBambino

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I have to assume Hayward’s agent knew 24 hours ago that Charlotte would be making an offer of this magnitude. Danny was already dead; he just didn’t know it.
If Ainge didn’t see this as a possibility he should be fired on the spot—Zach Lowe (among many others) noted it was something to watch out for.

It is all part of assessing what they offer him and what they ask for from IND and others. No way to know if he made the right choice but he shouldn’t have been surprised if either CHA or NYN made the offer...Hayward was best guy available.
 

PedroKsBambino

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But any deal was contingent on hayward wanting to go there. Clearly he didn't want to go to indy that badly or he wouldn't be signing with charlotte today so even if they worked out a deal he still would have had to want to go there over the charlotte money so it doesn't really matter what deals the cs had worked out once he was already a free agent
Indy could only offer him what the MLE? It’s about the S&T options and the resulting contract. Indy’s interest is widely reported and he owns a house there. No way to know but I don’t know that you’re seeing all the levels here
 

lexrageorge

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Would Charlotte be open to an S&T where Ainge threw in a 2nd round pick? Charlotte picks up a draft pick for nothing, probably doesn't care about being hard-capped, and Ainge at least secures a TPE.

Until we know what options Ainge had with regards to an S&T w/ Indiana (or elsewhere), it's impossible to say that there was anything he could have done. It's indeed strange that the Celtics were able to get Hayward to delay his opt-out by 48 hours and still essentially lost him for nil.

EDIT: Never mind. Jordan screws over two franchises with the stroke of his pen.
 

radsoxfan

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Stretching Batum seems like the pretty obvious move, he’s totally useless.

A sad end to a weird 3 year career stop for Hayward, mostly not his fault of course.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you were Celts would you think about eating some of Batum’s deal just to get the salary slot? I guess too expensive given the tax implications.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's hideous to put that much on future cap years but yeah it makes sense if you are unwilling to trade any assets to dump him
 

Mystic Merlin

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Would Charlotte be open to an S&T where Ainge threw in a 2nd round pick? Charlotte picks up a draft pick for nothing, probably doesn't care about being hard-capped, and Ainge at least secures a TPE.

Until we know what options Ainge had with regards to an S&T w/ Indiana (or elsewhere), it's impossible to say that there was anything he could have done. It's indeed strange that the Celtics were able to get Hayward to delay his opt-out by 48 hours and still essentially lost him for nil.

EDIT: Never mind. Jordan screws over two franchises with the stroke of his pen.
What is strange about it? Both Hayward and the Celtics hedged to see the market develop, and here we are.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Do what you can and prepare to have multiple max slots available for when Tatum’s impending extension is up. In the meantime do what you can to collect mid-range contracts that are moveable, and try to get some vets in with the promise of a solid role.

Not much else to say. Hayward goes to one of the most anonymous teams in the league. Celtics lose salary slot and 30+ minutes of all-around play.