Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

Sille Skrub

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Robin + 4 kids in Indy

Gordon + 8 teenagers playing Call of Duty in Charlotte

Pacers was never in play, it was always about a Charlotte mancave for Gordo to get his Sennseiser's on.o_O


His game is going to improve. Well played, Gordo. Well played.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Who on earth would Boston take from Charlotte though? Looks like a bunch of dreck to me.
It's about the TPE so they could get someone like Bogdan in an S+T from Sactown.

plus I'd gladly take Monk or Bridges. Doubt Graham is really an option. Doubt any of them are, maybe Monk.
 

BaseballJones

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It's about the TPE so they could get someone like Bogdan in an S+T from Sactown.

plus I'd gladly take Monk or Bridges. Doubt Graham is really an option. Doubt any of them are, maybe Monk.
Yeah but wouldn't Boston have to take on like $30m in salary from Charlotte to make a S&T viable? When I look on the trade machine and see Charlotte's roster and the guys attached to them....holy cow it's abysmal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah but wouldn't Boston have to take on like $30m in salary from Charlotte to make a S&T viable? When I look on the trade machine and see Charlotte's roster and the guys attached to them....holy cow it's abysmal.
No, Charlotte had cap room to absorb most of or all of the contract.
 

NomarsFool

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Could Hayward have signed any deal at all with Indiana that would have fit under their cap? For example, could he have signed a 5 year, $75 million deal with the right to opt out after a year? If possible, it allows him to get to Indiana, provides him some insurance, but would enable him to get paid next summer provided he doesn't have a major injury.

The whole sequence of events just confuses me, a bit. Obviously we don't know what's going on with him, and he did sign an offer sheet with Charlotte before, I'm just struggling to see how this is a great outcome for him (I know he got a lot of money). But, he's joining a true dumpster fire of a team. I just don't get it. You sort of think his agent would have acted as a go-between for Ainge and Pritchard and have something mostly worked out before opting out of the contract.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I think Charlotte just swooped in last night and blew up the plan. Indiana was going to get down somehow even if it was Turner and trash, minus Charlotte.
 

lexrageorge

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Could Hayward have signed any deal at all with Indiana that would have fit under their cap? For example, could he have signed a 5 year, $75 million deal with the right to opt out after a year? If possible, it allows him to get to Indiana, provides him some insurance, but would enable him to get paid next summer provided he doesn't have a major injury.

The whole sequence of events just confuses me, a bit. Obviously we don't know what's going on with him, and he did sign an offer sheet with Charlotte before, I'm just struggling to see how this is a great outcome for him (I know he got a lot of money). But, he's joining a true dumpster fire of a team. I just don't get it. You sort of think his agent would have acted as a go-between for Ainge and Pritchard and have something mostly worked out before opting out of the contract.
No, because Indiana had no cap space.

They could have used their MLE of $9M to a 1 year deal, signed him to 120% of that in his second year ($10.8), and 175% of that in his 3rd ($18.9M), and no limit on his 4th year. But there is no way Hayward would have signed up for that, given that he would be leaving $52 million on the table in those first 3 years.
 

DGreenwood

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And NBA player options can only be for one year at the end of the contract. You can't have a four year contract with an opt out after the first year.
 

lovegtm

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It's about the TPE so they could get someone like Bogdan in an S+T from Sactown.

plus I'd gladly take Monk or Bridges. Doubt Graham is really an option. Doubt any of them are, maybe Monk.
If they come out of this with the TPE plus the other vet signings, this was absolutely a better outcome than the Indy deals (minus Warren, who likely was never on the table).
 

Cellar-Door

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If they come out of this with the TPE plus the other vet signings, this was absolutely a better outcome than the Indy deals (minus Warren, who likely was never on the table).
could probably have gotten the vet deals with an Indy deal, might have had to pay to move a salary (maybe not, McDermott might be wanted by some teams) but the money isn't that far apart
 

lovegtm

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could probably have gotten the vet deals with an Indy deal, might have had to pay to move a salary (maybe not, McDermott might be wanted by some teams) but the money isn't that far apart
Yeah, I also don’t value Turner’s 3-point shot (I think it vanishes when guys close out in the playoffs), and he’s a meh body down low for his size, so I probably would rather have TT for this specific team even regardless of money. Ymmv.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, I also don’t value Turner’s 3-point shot (I think it vanishes when guys close out in the playoffs), and he’s a meh body down low for his size, so I probably would rather have TT for this specific team even regardless of money. Ymmv.
that's fine, I was just noting that people seem to think we got the full MLE and BAE because we didn't do the IND deal, when likely if we wanted to we could have done a deal with Indy and still gotten to the MLE and BAE, would have likely needed a 3rd team, but pretty doable.
 

lovegtm

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that's fine, I was just noting that people seem to think we got the full MLE and BAE because we didn't do the IND deal, when likely if we wanted to we could have done a deal with Indy and still gotten to the MLE and BAE, would have likely needed a 3rd team, but pretty doable.
Ah ok, agree there.
 

lovegtm

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What incentive do the Hornets, who seem to have a fine/good relationship with Ainge, have for not taking a 2nd round pick to S&T Hayward, and stretching Batum instead?

I get that they wanted to be able to make a strong offer with no extra moving parts, but it seems now that Boston will be very happy to accomodate to get the TPE, so I don't see any reason for this not to get done.
 

lexrageorge

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What incentive do the Hornets, who seem to have a fine/good relationship with Ainge, have for not taking a 2nd round pick to S&T Hayward, and stretching Batum instead?

I get that they wanted to be able to make a strong offer with no extra moving parts, but it seems now that Boston will be very happy to accomodate to get the TPE, so I don't see any reason for this not to get done.
The only downside for Charlotte is that they would be hard-capped, but I don't believe that's really an issue for them, as I don't think they would have any chance of passing the apron anyway. Technically, Hayward is not obligated to agree to a sign-and-trade, but as long as the cost to Charlotte is not too high, he has no real reason to not agree to it either.

It should be a no-brainer. Agents and GMs still try to do each a solid by working out a sign-and-trade if at all possible, much like the Kemba/Rozier trade.
 

lovegtm

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The only downside for Charlotte is that they would be hard-capped, but I don't believe that's really an issue for them, as I don't think they would have any chance of passing the apron anyway. Technically, Hayward is not obligated to agree to a sign-and-trade, but as long as the cost to Charlotte is not too high, he has no real reason to not agree to it either.

It should be a no-brainer. Agents and GMs still try to do each a solid by working out a sign-and-trade if at all possible, much like the Kemba/Rozier trade.
It would likely be a small asset moving from the Celtics to the Hornets, not the other way around. Although I suppose you can make the argument that they should do neutral value because of avoiding the Batum stretch.
 

the moops

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If I'm Pritchard I am not including Warren in any deal. If I am Ainge I am not doing the deal unless Warren is included.
Sometimes there is just not a deal to be done.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Am I mistaken or isn't Kupchak the GM in CHA? I understand Jordan signs off on stuff but why do we assume he's driving the bus? I'd have to assume Kupchak got some kind of autonomy when he signed on.
 

Gash Prex

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Liked Gordon - unfortunate series of events caused it to not work as envisioned. I hold no ill will and wish him well in CHA. If we can get a sign and trade, all the better.

he is clearly not a 120 million dollar player anymore and this will end like Horford.
 

DJnVa

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So what is the hold-up on announcing this as a S&T if it is? Charlotte gets a free second rounder or 2 and that should be enough.
 

Cellar-Door

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So what is the hold-up on announcing this as a S&T if it is? Charlotte gets a free second rounder or 2 and that should be enough.
Charlotte probably is trying to find a way to not cut Batum, and also may have hard cap concerns (though that would be weird given how far below it they project to be).
 

PedroKsBambino

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Charlotte may see their leverage here and is pushing for a 1st is one possibility.

There are understandable rumors that Cha is trying to move Rozier; if so, they might want to assess this S&T in the context of that potential deal to optimize the structuring.

There also may be a Celtic interest in looping in a third team now, most likely to get a player routed back. But I think that's fairly unlikely given their roster situation
 

nighthob

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I'm guessing that with Hayward inbound Charlotte's trying to find a place for Rozier to maintain clubhouse harmony. With Hayward at a F slot and the younger Ball to man the 2, it's probably easier to find court time for Malik Monk. Monk definitely didn't fit in a backcourt with the smurfy Graham and Rozier. Who knows, maybe the Knicks are still interested in T-Ro and will send Boston Frankie Smokes in the transaction.
 

amfox1

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The back of your computer

"You want to clown the contract?" said Zach Lowe on The Lowe Post. "That's fine. Just know it's not like the Pacers and the Celtics were offering $80 million. They weren't offering $120 million. But my best intel is something like $105 million, $108 million, $102 million, $110 million. It's not like the delta was so huge."
 

Euclis20

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It's one thing to overpay for performance when you are a solid playoff team and conceivably one move (or less!) away from title contention, and it's another thing to overpay (by an additional $20M at least) for performance when you just won < 30 games. I've not heard the entire podcast so it's possible the context changes things slightly, but by any definition this was a horrible move for Charlotte, full stop.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, he's just not very good. Fine backup, but he's being paid like a quality starter. And I can't imagine anyone was interested in tying their cap up with someone like that.
 

The Social Chair

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Great analysis from Kevin Pelton.

Hayward's departure hardly dooms Boston. Still, the Celtics no longer look nearly as formidable as they did beating Toronto to reach last year's conference finals.
The Celtics who beat Toronto without Gordon Hayward no longer look as formidable as they did when they beat Toronto without Gordon Hayward.
 

lovegtm

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Great analysis from Kevin Pelton.



The Celtics who beat Toronto without Gordon Hayward no longer look as formidable as they did when they beat Toronto without Gordon Hayward.
It’s pretty shocking how little attention some of these national analysts pay. Pelton in particular has a ton of really dumb takes.
 

tbb345

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It’s pretty shocking how little attention some of these national analysts pay. Pelton in particular has a ton of really dumb takes.
Not adding much to the Hayward conversation but Pelton is awful.
In addition to having no team sources, he uses whats clearly an outdated statistical model for all of his analysis and never really strays or adds much to it.