Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

RedOctober3829

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What in the name of tarnation are you babbling about? No one's saying that anyone's a fucking victim. But Hayward ain't going to be overjoyed about the Pacers backing out of their deal with him. If he'd known that the Pacers were going to welch I'm pretty certain that the family would have held off moving until they knew his next destination.

And, yeah, I don't think that Mark Bartelstein will be returning phone calls to Pritchard anytime soon, because no matter what the financial results he now knows absolutely that Pritchard can't be trusted to keep his word.
We don’t know there was a deal in place or not. For all we know, Hayward was using Indiana as leverage to get more money out of NY or Charlotte. Woj said yesterday that Hayward was open to a few S&T destinations besides Indiana.
 

EvilEmpire

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Lot of assuptions being made.

We're in the middle of a global pandemic. Being closer to family probably has more to do with that than anything else.

Signing with Indiana and their cap space may have been more of a hope than a promise or expectation. Seems like a solid chance of that given that GH moved on before the dance was done.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Hey! Fuck Gordon Hayward.

Seriously. We all want to dance around saying it because his ankle injury was so gruesome. Sprinkle in his, "Aw shucks! I'm just a video game, nerdy hipster! Look at my sweet moustache and perfectly quoffed hair!" and we just let his BS slide.

I know the injury wasnt his fault. But had he pulled that dramatic bullshit and picked any team besides Boston a few years ago, we all would have called him a drama queen. Everything about him was either dramatic or a challenge.

He looks great, hes back!

Oh, hes shit again for 2 weeks. Ankle issue? Who knows. Hes just disappearing.

Hey look, he really didnt want a daughter.

Oh. Hes pouting because hes playing behind Jaylen. That's nice.

Hes hurt...again...for the 50th time.

Hes staying out of the bubble for the birth of his kid. That sucks, but I get it.

Psych! Hes back in the bubble!

He loves CBS and he wont leave.

Eh...ok, hes going to Indiana.

PSYYCCCHHHH!!!

Later, Gordo. Take your super hip mustache and your flair for the dramatics, and have fun toiling away in Charlotte. I'm sure they have great internet connection for your gaming, though.
 

nighthob

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Indiana has no cap space. If he and his agent thought it was a done deal, they are stupid. There was nothing to agree to. It was not in Pritchard's hands. He could only attempt to make a deal.
Clearly Mark Bartelstein and Gordon Hayward were just morons. And clearly they assume that it's Ainge's fault for asking for something in exchange for helping out the Pacers. Not the Pacers for demanding that Boston give Hayward and fix their payroll problems. :rolleyes:
 

Cesar Crespo

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Clearly Mark Bartelstein and Gordon Hayward were just morons. And clearly they assume that it's Ainge's fault for asking for something in exchange for helping out the Pacers. Not the Pacers for demanding that Boston give Hayward and fix their payroll problems. :rolleyes:
Pritchard:Nighthob = Brickowski:Rondo
 

nighthob

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We don’t know there was a deal in place or not. For all we know, Hayward was using Indiana as leverage to get more money out of NY or Charlotte. Woj said yesterday that Hayward was open to a few S&T destinations besides Indiana.
I mean the actual series of events argues otherwise. Because the Haywards did suddenly decide to sell their other houses and move to Indiana during the hiatus. And that's likely to be followed by another move to Charlotte in the next year. I doubt they go through all that hassle if they didn't think that that's where they were going to be.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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The Celtics future the next few seasons is based on how much better Tatum and Brown get. Two great young wings, with tons of deep playoff experience and ridiculous work ethics.

Filling up the roster with complementary vet pieces, while draftees grow into their roles, with Tatum and Brown driving it, is the future of this team.
And Kemba's knee health
 

nighthob

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Pritchard:Nighthob = Brickowski:Rondo
We get that you're upset Boston didn't get Turner. I'm the one that's OK with the whole thing. I didn't want Hayward back and I didn't like any permutation of the Indiana deal. The angry person here is you. Get over it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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We get that you're upset Boston didn't get Turner. I'm the one that's OK with the whole thing. I didn't want Hayward back and I didn't like any permutation of the Indiana deal. The angry person here is you. Get over it.
I'm not angry at all. You are the one making crazy arguments based on assumptions and saying things like Pritchard thinks Aaron Holiday is untouchable even though he didn't. He said it about Warren and you used faulty logic to build your take. You are over the top on this.
 

tbrown_01923

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Add me to the group happy that buckets and turner aren't heading to Boston. Turner is a major overpay that but more importantly I don't see how he makes the team meaningfully better.
 

BigSoxFan

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Jimbodandy

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Pritchard:Nighthob = Brickowski:Rondo
You should Google this stuff. Nighthob is not making up this pritch slapped nonsense. Pritchard is well known for shit like this happening.

Despite people complaining that Danny hasn't built a super team since 2007, he has made craploads of fairly significant signings, trades, and sign/trade deals including last offseason (for example).

Google Pritchard's record.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You should Google this stuff. Nighthob is not making up this pritch slapped nonsense. Pritchard is well known for shit like this happening.

Despite people complaining that Danny hasn't built a super team since 2007, he has made craploads of fairly significant signings, trades, and sign/trade deals including last offseason (for example).

Google Pritchard's record.
Show me where he guaranteed Hayward he'd trade for him and that he could make Ainge agree to a trade.

edit: If he has done stuff like that before (make guarantees to players), how is he a GM and how do any agents trust him to begin with?
 

RedOctober3829

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I mean the actual series of events argues otherwise. Because the Haywards did suddenly decide to sell their other houses and move to Indiana during the hiatus. And that's likely to be followed by another move to Charlotte in the next year. I doubt they go through all that hassle if they didn't think that that's where they were going to be.
They could have easily have had plans before he knew what his status was to have the house in Indianapolis as their home base and Gordon will be in an apartment or a rental house wherever he landed if it wasn’t the Pacers.

edit: they bought the house in Indianapolis area last summer and were renovating it.
 

Jimbodandy

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Show me where he guaranteed Hayward he'd trade for him and that he could make Ainge agree to a trade.
I'm not saying that proof exists, and nighthob is clearly building an argument on circumstantial evidence.

That said, it seems pretty likely that a handshake deal was complete between player and Indy, pending Pritchard and Ainge working something out. It also seems like reliable reporting that Ainge and Pritchard spend boatloads of time on the phone over the last few days trying to hammer it out. They both failed. But only one of these guys has pages and pages of anecdotes all over the internet (including a hilarious urban dictionary reference) documenting his walking away from deals unless the package is heavily one-sided to his advantage.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm not saying that proof exists, and nighthob is clearly building an argument on circumstantial evidence.

That said, it seems pretty likely that a handshake deal was complete between player and Indy, pending Pritchard and Ainge working something out. It also seems pretty likely that Ainge and Pritchard spend boatloads of time on the phone over the last few days trying to hammer it out. They both failed. But only one of these guys has pages and pages of anecdotes all over the internet (including a hilarious urban dictionary reference) documenting his walking away from deals unless the package is heavily one-sided to his advantage.
Yeah I wasn't arguing Pritchard walking away from trades, just the narrative that Gordon and his agent are going to be absolutely furious with him because they had to sign with Charlotte for 4/120.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah I wasn't arguing Pritchard walking away from trades, just the narrative that Gordon and his agent are going to be absolutely furious with him because they had to sign with Charlotte for 4/120.
Furious is a bit much. But I'd believe that Pritchard agreed on a number and said something to the effect that they'd "work something out" with Boston. If I'm the agent and player, I'm assuming that means that the desire to bring me in exceeds the desire to peacock the internet later at what a crafty motherfucker I am.

You're right that there couldn't have been a "promise", and it's not like agents aren't going to pick up the phone really. But certainly the word will get out that handshake deals with Pritchard are garbage, if anyone didn't know that already.
 

Sille Skrub

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And that's likely to be followed by another move to Charlotte in the next year.
Or Hayward could just use the extra $20-$40mil he just got from the spending drunken sailors in Charlotte to buy a jet. Indy isn’t *that* far.

The Hayward’s probably had their hearts set on Indy, but knew there was a chance it wouldn’t work out.
 

Jimbodandy

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Or Hayward could just use the extra $20-$40mil he just got from the spending drunken sailors in Charlotte to buy a jet. Indy isn’t *that* far.

The Hayward’s probably had their hearts set on Indy, but knew there was a chance it wouldn’t work out.
In the CoviD world, private jets are gold right? Charlotte is an underrated airport IMO.
 

FredCDobbs

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It really is amazing how much the Celtics are hated by fans all over the league. I mean I get it on some level, but I think they're the most hated team.

People make fun of Lakers bandwagoners
People hated the Warriors but not anymore
I guess many people will be schadenfruede-watching the Nets
Many don't like Harden and the Rockets

but I think the C's win. I personally hate Miami for all the reasons we all know and will be bitter if they get Giannis.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Hey! Fuck Gordon Hayward.

Seriously. We all want to dance around saying it because his ankle injury was so gruesome. Sprinkle in his, "Aw shucks! I'm just a video game, nerdy hipster! Look at my sweet moustache and perfectly quoffed hair!" and we just let his BS slide.

I know the injury wasnt his fault. But had he pulled that dramatic bullshit and picked any team besides Boston a few years ago, we all would have called him a drama queen. Everything about him was either dramatic or a challenge.

He looks great, hes back!

Oh, hes shit again for 2 weeks. Ankle issue? Who knows. Hes just disappearing.

Hey look, he really didnt want a daughter.

Oh. Hes pouting because hes playing behind Jaylen. That's nice.

Hes hurt...again...for the 50th time.

Hes staying out of the bubble for the birth of his kid. That sucks, but I get it.

Psych! Hes back in the bubble!

He loves CBS and he wont leave.

Eh...ok, hes going to Indiana.

PSYYCCCHHHH!!!

Later, Gordo. Take your super hip mustache and your flair for the dramatics, and have fun toiling away in Charlotte. I'm sure they have great internet connection for your gaming, though.
I always find myself thinking “Fuck, yeah” to @Kenny F'ing Powers posts.
I don’t exactly wish ill to Haywood, but I don’t want him to stumble into any success beyond the lucrative contract he’s won. Take your money, show your daughters a little more love, and enjoy your distance from O’Brien trophies.
 
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lexrageorge

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I'm not sure what Hayward could have or should have done differently. The media created a bunch of narratives and hot takes about his reasons for leaving, leaving out the fact that it takes a long time to count to 120 million.
 

TripleOT

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That's why "The Last Dance" annoyed the shit out of me. MJ (and lesser extent Phil) just trashing Krause when MJ has been a disaster, and Phil with the Knicks was almost as bad.
Krause was the MJ of GMs in building that team. Jordan continually cutting him down, and now showing how absolutely horrible he is at the job that got Krause into the HOF, is so ironic.

Jordan is jordanesquely bad at putting together a basketball roster
 

nighthob

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Furious is a bit much. But I'd believe that Pritchard agreed on a number and said something to the effect that they'd "work something out" with Boston. If I'm the agent and player, I'm assuming that means that the desire to bring me in exceeds the desire to peacock the internet later at what a crafty motherfucker I am.
There's a difference, I think, between annoyed and furious. And I'm pretty sure that agents get pissed when GMs renege on deals, no matter what happens later. In the backroom deal game your word is your bond.
 

Tony C

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Or Hayward could just use the extra $20-$40mil he just got from the spending drunken sailors in Charlotte to buy a jet. Indy isn’t *that* far.

The Hayward’s probably had their hearts set on Indy, but knew there was a chance it wouldn’t work out.
It's the 2nd time he signed with Charlotte, so it's fair speculation that he has a connection there or really likes it or something.
I'm not sure what Hayward could have or should have done differently. The media created a bunch of narratives and hot takes about his reasons for leaving, leaving out the fact that it takes a long time to count to 120 million.
Yeah, all the judgement(s) in this thread are based on very little knowledge of what was going down.

It really is amazing how much the Celtics are hated by fans all over the league. I mean I get it on some level, but I think they're the most hated team.
....
I think Boston sports fans in general are the most hated, but I don't know the Celtics are per se (the Pats yes, obviously).
 

TripleOT

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They could have easily have had plans before he knew what his status was to have the house in Indianapolis as their home base and Gordon will be in an apartment or a rental house wherever he landed if it wasn’t the Pacers.

edit: they bought the house in Indianapolis area last summer and were renovating it.
You get a lot of house in Indiana for $3 million. I would have kept the San Diego house, though. Probably not too ideal having infants falling into the pool all the time.
 

benhogan

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Or Hayward could just use the extra $20-$40mil he just got from the spending drunken sailors in Charlotte to buy a jet. Indy isn’t *that* far.

The Hayward’s probably had their hearts set on Indy, but knew there was a chance it wouldn’t work out.
Robin + 4 kids in Indy

Gordon + 8 teenagers playing Call of Duty in Charlotte

Pacers was never in play, it was always about a Charlotte mancave for Gordo to get his Sennseiser's on.o_O


 

Brand Name

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The Land of Thomas Cecil
My compliments on the thread title
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks. :)

As for this, I’m mixed, I’m glad this deal wasn’t made to come back here at that price, but to not lose him without a TPE and to lose that cap space is really unfortunate for relative cap flexibility reasons. Seems like the Celtics, Pacers, and a de facto $39M hit for Charlotte are all losers.

Don’t begrudge the decision but I do worry about what it signifies for the team’s absolute ceiling going forward in the short game. You’re counting on another big leap from the Js (not remotely impossible give the ages), plus Kemba’s knee.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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You get a lot of house in Indiana for $3 million. I would have kept the San Diego house, though. Probably not too ideal having infants falling into the pool all the time.
So his houses each cost about 10% of his annual salary. I know I couldn’t get much house for 10% of my annual salary.
 

TripleOT

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So his houses each cost about 10% of his annual salary. I know I couldn’t get much house for 10% of my annual salary.
His houses seem reasonable even from someone making a quarter of his career earnings. The problem players get into with the big expensive houses, the eight figure places in LA or South Beach, besides the initial price is the yearly carrying cost. Taxes on that Indy house is about $28k a year.

Property taxes on a 16k square foot house in Miami or LA would be 10x that.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Hayward making $330M in career earnings with only one all-NBA spot is impressive.
Back in 2016 Mike Conley Jr. signed what was then the largest contract in NBA history without having ever made an All Star Game or All NBA team in his career.

The NBA salary structure is just full of weird incentives.
 

fairlee76

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Such a bizarre move for a guy who has made a ton of money and has interest from good teams.
No more bizarre than deciding to settle in Indiana long-term when you're a multi-millionaire. Also, he's a Trump guy I thought? So I can't really get too into "what is his rationale for..." about anything.

Also, one of only times during his Celtic tenure that I remember thinking "damn, Hayward looks great!" was in a game against Charlotte last November. He was moving really well, making things look easy. An outlier game for him while he was here. Best of luck to him but 4 years, $120M guaranteed is insane.
 

tbb345

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I mean they did agree on the deal some time ago given the Hayward's decision to move home during the hiatus. So at the very least Mark Bartelstein is going to be really pissed at Pritchard for essentially reneging.
Couldnt they have just decided to move home?

you’re connecting a lot of dots here on your own and proceeding like they are absolute fact. A guy buying a house in his hometown and moving there are miles away from a guaranteed iron clad under the table deal.
 

Bernard Gilkey baby

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It feels like the story here is that the Hornets went crazy. You can’t plan for crazy. Everyone else was operating under the the rules of rationality because that’s what you have to do in negotiations.You have to assume people will operate in their own interests, ideally both their short and long term interests. But Charlotte ownership didn’t want to do that. 30 million a year for 2020 Gordon Hayward, who knew?