Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

Ale Xander

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So $9 mil a year for 3 years of dead money, they don't even have the pleasure of his services? And he can sign elsewhere? Or just in a year he can sign with someone else?

NBA has weird salary rules.
 

Ale Xander

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Gordo's used to playing in the shadows of storied college teams in college towns. BC just didn't cast a big enough shadow.

And now he's getting overpaid.

I hope Danny and his golf buddy can work something out.
Who's in Charlotte? UNC-Charlotte?
 

The Social Chair

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Do what you can and prepare to have multiple max slots available for when Tatum’s impending extension is up. Not much to say. Hayward goes to one of the most anonymous teams in the league. Really bizarre.
THIS. Tatum is good as gone in a few years if the Celtics aren't able to let him pick his partner of choice.
 

DJnVa

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What should we do then? People are going to pile on Danny Ainge, but it’s quite possible the Pacers talk was overblown and not as close as the media portrayed. If GH wanted Indiana that bad and prioritized location over money , he’d have taken the 4/100 deal of that in fact was the offer. He wanted to maximize his earnings which is what every player should do
I didn’t say you should do anything. I wasn’t criticizing anyone, including Hayward. I was posting my thoughts.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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So $9 mil a year for 3 years of dead money, they don't even have the pleasure of his services? And he can sign elsewhere? Or just in a year he can sign with someone else?

NBA has weird salary rules.
He's a free agent but he's toast. I don't see him playing in the league this year. Maybe some team offers the minimum.
 

Harry Hooper

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Why are we blaming Danny Ainge? Was he going to be able to force Gordon to sign the Indiana deal?
FWIW, Chris Gasper and Brian Robb were on the radio today. They were very clear that the Hayward camp thought the deal with Indiana was done days ago, but Ainge ultimately balked at the package.
 

scottyno

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Indy could only offer him what the MLE? It’s about the S&T options and the resulting contract. Indy’s interest is widely reported and he owns a house there. No way to know but I don’t know that you’re seeing all the levels here
Huh? All those levels are super obvious. But sign and trade is also irrelevant because hayward clearly valued taking the money in charlotte over playing in indy, so even if they worked out a deal it wouldn't have mattered unless indy was giving him 4-120 too
 

Jimbodandy

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This is not 10 years ago. This is not worst case scenario. Preserving max salary slots uber alles is old news.

Worst case scenario would have been hamstringing the team with bad contracts and giving up other assets just to send Hayward where he wanted to go most.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think with no Hayward they duck below the tax enough and will have the full non taxpayer MLE
Yes. Guys you’d look at like Saric (restricted), Milsap, maybe KCP or splitting among a guy like Giles/Kaminaky/Baynes and a guy like E’Atwaun Moore or Shaq Harrison

You could try to swing a three way deal for Bogdanovich but have to think it costs real pick value. Worth a thought.
 

Jimbodandy

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Would Charlotte be open to an S&T where Ainge threw in a 2nd round pick? Charlotte picks up a draft pick for nothing, probably doesn't care about being hard-capped, and Ainge at least secures a TPE.

Until we know what options Ainge had with regards to an S&T w/ Indiana (or elsewhere), it's impossible to say that there was anything he could have done. It's indeed strange that the Celtics were able to get Hayward to delay his opt-out by 48 hours and still essentially lost him for nil.

EDIT: Never mind. Jordan screws over two franchises with the stroke of his pen.
At least two. Maybe three.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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FWIW, Chris Gasper and Brian Robb were on the radio today. They were very clear that the Hayward camp thought the deal with Indiana was done days ago, but Ainge ultimately balked at the package.
How could it have been a done deal if one of the parties hadn’t agreed to it?
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Would we rather have extended him at this same money?

We missed out on getting anything back in return, but he probably would have stayed for that money too. Now we have the MLE to get our 6th man and heavy contributor.

Lose/Lose/Lose all around. Same situation as Horford.

I won't miss Gordon as much as I missed watching Al play though. (nothing to do with value or contract in that sentence) I missed Al at the top of the key.
 

PedroKsBambino

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but we need to set our playoff roster by the end of next week
Ha yup. This sucks, but they will have planned some for it...I expect they have some things in mind. And it’s a great core. Do wonder if there was a better way to play the Indy angle but we’ll have to judge once we see their plan

Sigh.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I wonder if Ainge still does the Kanter salary dump deal if he knew this outcome was coming. Some veteran bench scoring wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
 

lexrageorge

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FWIW, Chris Gasper and Brian Robb were on the radio today. They were very clear that the Hayward camp thought the deal with Indiana was done days ago, but Ainge ultimately balked at the package.
If the package would have forced the Celtics to take back a bad contract for multiple years, then good on Danny. If there was something else that could have been worked out, however, then Danny deserves a share of the blame. But neither Gasper nor Robb are reliable sources for inside info, and this one is big enough that we'll probably find out more in the coming days if there was a deal to be had.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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This is not 10 years ago. This is not worst case scenario. Preserving max salary slots uber alles is old news.

Worst case scenario would have been hamstringing the team with bad contracts and giving up other assets just to send Hayward where he wanted to go most.
None of the contracts under discussion were uniquely bad, and the talent coming back would clearly have been usable. Now they have a gaping hole in the roster, particularly with regards to playmaking and secondary scoring, which they have more or less no way to replace aside from having Tatum/Brown carry more of the load. That’s fine, but the depth takes a massive hit here for a roster that is already sitting on a knife’s edge given Kemba’s knee situation.

Who knows if or how badly Ainge misplayed his hand, but it’s pretty clear there are other GMs who would have tossed in a 1st or whatever was needed to seal the deal. And we know Ainge’s feelings on that.

Lessens the blow that my lasting memory of Hayward is missing a thousand bunnies against Miami.
 

JakeRae

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I wonder if Ainge still does the Kanter salary dump deal if he knew this outcome was coming. Some veteran bench scoring wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
I don’t think so but mostly because the cost wasn’t worth it. The team now has the roster space to carry Kanter and the 30th pick. But it was a reasonable deal at the time and the cost isn’t something Ainge is likely to lose sleep over.
 

tbb345

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Ha yup. This sucks, but they will have planned some for it...I expect they have some things in mind. And it’s a great core. Do wonder if there was a better way to play the Indy angle but we’ll have to judge once we see their plan

Sigh.
All of the things that are positive about what just happened were guarantees and have nothing to do with Hayward going to the Hornets.
Within the scope of realistic outcomes this is BY FAR the worst option. The Celtics get nothing back and it took so fucking long that the useful players who they could have got for the MLE are mostly gone. This is a disaster and I’m honestly surprised Ainge and Bartlestein weren’t able to work something out to benefit both parties.
Boston just took a sizable step back while almost every other contender in the East is better. This fucking sucks
 

Minneapolis Millers

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It’s possible that IND liked Hayward at Van Vleet-like dollars but was unwilling to go as high as Charlotte, or would only do so if they could dump more awful contracts on Boston in exchange, something Ainge would not accept. Charlotte‘s willingness to offer that contract (and take the Batum hit) is what drove all of this. It sucks, but sometimes the unreasonableness of other teams eliminates all reasonable options left for you.
 

Clears Cleaver

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As bad as it may be for the C's, it's worse for Charlotte and Indiana
Well, the C's were hoping to contend for a title. Realistically that is not happening this year or the next two years. And chances of Tatum leaving are higher if there is no path to a title. So...Charlotte and Indiana are screwed but they weren't positioned to be competitive anyways.

At this point, best case is that Kemba can play 30-40 games and playoffs well
 

Jimbodandy

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None of the contracts under discussion were uniquely bad, and the talent coming back would clearly have been usable. Now they have a gaping hole in the roster, particularly with regards to playmaking and secondary scoring, which they have more or less no way to replace aside from having Tatum/Brown carry more of the load. That’s fine, but the depth takes a massive hit here for a roster that is already sitting on a knife’s edge given Kemba’s knee situation.

Who knows if or how badly Ainge misplayed his hand, but it’s pretty clear there are other GMs who would have tossed in a 1st or whatever was needed to seal the deal. And we know Ainge’s feelings on that.

Lessens the blow that my lasting memory of Hayward is missing a thousand bunnies against Miami.
I was on board for Turner/Warren and could have been talked into Turner/McDermott. I love Turner more than just about anyone without the surname Turner. But we don't really know what the deals were.

This almost certainly diminishes our chances next year somewhat. But next year isn't the only year. Resetting has value. I trust Ainge.
 

benhogan

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Ha yup. This sucks, but they will have planned some for it...I expect they have some things in mind. And it’s a great core. Do wonder if there was a better way to play the Indy angle but we’ll have to judge once we see their plan

Sigh.
I think the Pritchard/Danny relationship really hurt any deal happening there. Neither can give in.

Celtics will be fine. Wish they did better but GH had every right to go get more money. and he did.

Detroit, Charlotte, and Minnesota have gone loco the last few days with their $$$. If they are jumping off of bridges, I don't expect Danny to follow suit.
 

Jimbodandy

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It’s possible that IND liked Hayward at Van Vleet-like dollars but was unwilling to go as high as Charlotte, or would only do so if they could dump more awful contracts on Boston in exchange, something Ainge would not accept. Charlotte‘s willingness to offer that contract (and take the Batum hit) is what drove all of this. It sucks, but sometimes the unreasonableness of other team’s eliminates all reasonable options left for you.
Sounds like you're onto something. Charlotte was always in the weeds. Why people think that Danny jumping on Turner+ would have precluded a final call to Jordan et al. is beyond my comprehension.

We knew that Indy had places that they weren't gonna go financially. Jordan's offer trumps anything that was in the works.
 

PedroKsBambino

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All of the things that are positive about what just happened were guarantees and have nothing to do with Hayward going to the Hornets.
Within the scope of realistic outcomes this is BY FAR the worst option. The Celtics get nothing back and it took so fucking long that the useful players who they could have got for the MLE are mostly gone. This is a disaster and I’m honestly surprised Ainge and Bartlestein weren’t able to work something out to benefit both parties.
Boston just took a sizable step back while almost every other contender in the East is better. This fucking sucks
No one is disputing that, at least no one who understands the cap. that is why some of us are asking about the macro-level decision making.

But it is also true that they have some cards left to play, and they still have a great core, too.

I'd also note that while Charlotte has said it's stretching Batum that is the right thing to say even if you are considering a S&T. Let's see the rest of the moves this offseason, while acknowledging also that the best thing for them (IMO) was always keeping Hayward.
 

lexrageorge

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It’s possible that IND liked Hayward at Van Vleet-like dollars but was unwilling to go as high as Charlotte, or would only do so if they could dump more awful contracts on Boston in exchange, something Ainge would not accept. Charlotte‘s willingness to offer that contract (and take the Batum hit) is what drove all of this. It sucks, but sometimes the unreasonableness of other team’s eliminates all reasonable options left for you.
Most people were expecting 4/100 or similar for Hayward, which is probably what Indiana was prepared to offer. If that was the case, it's hard to blame Danny if Hayward was always going to the highest bidder no matter what. Still, it seems as if something should have been worked out given the extra 48 hours the Celtics had with the deadline extension.

And I will remain disappointed that Ainge couldn't work out an S&T to Charlotte to at least gain a TPE, which could have been useful at the upcoming trade deadline. Seems like that should have been a no-brainer for both sides.

The Celtics title opportunity in the Tatum window has unfortunately narrowed considerably.
 

E5 Yaz

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There always seems to be a clear, objective reason — not to mention the slew of hypothetical theories — why these individual major trade/signing pursuits since the Nets deal that we and the media spend so much time discussing keep failing to come to fruition.

But there's only one constant.
 

lovegtm

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There always seems to be a clear, objective reason — not to mention the slew of hypothetical theories — why these individual major trade/signing pursuits since the Nets deal that we and the media spend so much time discussing keep failing to come to fruition.

But there's only one constant.
I think this is fair criticism at this point, although his track record even in the midst of that is so good that I think it outweighs said criticism by a lot.