Carmelo as part of a Big 3

[TomRicardo]

 
Don't they have enough young assets to get a third guy to go with Love/Rondo?
 

 
I would imagine if Love goes to Boston, the next move is to have Carmelo hold the Knicks for ransom which would be awesome considering the amount of tampering they tried with Rondo.
 
If Melo wants to go, the Knicks would be forced to work with the Celtics.  Probably Jeff Green and Bass plus a couple of picks.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
I would imagine if Love goes to Boston, the next move is to have Carmelo hold the Knicks for ransom which would be awesome considering the amount of tampering they tried with Rondo.
 
If Melo wants to go, the Knicks would be forced to work with the Celtics.  Probably Jeff Green and Bass plus a couple of picks.

God I hope not.
Melo is more of a 4 than a 3 at this point.
Also Love and Melo in a frontcourt is a team that will never be able to get a stop when they need it.

 

[BostonFan23]

I can't see Phil Jackson trading Carmelo to Boston. Especially for peanuts. It just won't happen. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

First off, I hate Carmelo Anthony. He is overrated and, while I usually hate using such platitudes, the guy is a loser. He's selfish, he whines, he probably fakes injuries, he usually makes his teammates worse, and his body may actually be breaking down to boot. Pass, with prejudice. That notwithstanding:
 
 
 

I can't see Phil Jackson trading Carmelo to Boston. Especially for peanuts. It just won't happen.

 
What am I missing? Melo is going to opt out and become a Free Agent, isn't he? I don't see why he wouldn't. Unless we're talking about a sign and trade (I think you can still do those after an opt out?), which pays Melo even more than he's already not worth, and you are throwing in added pieces to the Knicks.
 
:barf:  :barf:  :barf:  :barf:  :barf:

 

[ALiveH]

I am a strong pass on Carmelo as well.  He is probably the one superstar I'd least want on my team if I was trying to build a winner.

 

[Devizier]

I see Carmelo Anthony as very similar to Paul Pierce during the nadir of his Celtics years. He would be very productive in the right system. But there's no chance that the Celtics will get him.

 

[fairlee76]

I see Carmelo Anthony as very similar to Paul Pierce during the nadir of his Celtics years. He would be very productive in the right system. But there's no chance that the Celtics will get him.

Yes, but Carmelo has presented that way his entire time in the league.  Pierce had his moments during a particularly tough time for the team but I don't think Pierce's early career was all about his being a malcontent.  George Karl may disagree, but I am not sure he is the best source when it comes to assessing a player's attitude.
 
Productive in terms of points scored, sure.  But a frontcourt including Love and Anthony would be brutal on the defensive end.  As noted above, Love and Anthony working together assumes Anthony can still play the 3.  Which is a risky assumption given injuries and age.
 
Count me as another strong pass.  Build through Rondo, Love, and your remaining picks.

 

[wutang112878]

I see Carmelo Anthony as very similar to Paul Pierce during the nadir of his Celtics years. He would be very productive in the right system. But there's no chance that the Celtics will get him.

 
Their situations were very different though.  Pierce went through 2 full Pitino years, then the next year where Pitino left.  The team finally turns it around and they have one decent run to the conference finals, and then they get worse as the years go on because that team was horribly flawed.  Then Danny and Doc take over and decide to completely rebuild and develop young players so Doc asks Pierce to start taking less shots and use his energy and focus to make life easier for his wet behind the ears teammates.  That brings us to 04/05 and Pierce has proven he can carry a team offensively and he just wasted 3 of his prime years and the rebuilding period seems to be indefinite.
 
Compare that to Melo and while his teams werent great they went to the playoffs every year he was there.  In his last 3 years they went to the conference finals once and won 50+ games each of those years, and he still whined his way out of town.

 

[wutang112878]

Re : melo . To be fair whos the best teammate hes played w ? Amare? Iverson post prime? Hes carried some sad sack teams deep, and i love watching him on the olympic teams when hes just a punishing wing scorer. I truly think w a PG handling the rock and another star scorer melo becomes and a very effecient player. Hes a top 3 scorer in the league

 
Well Melo should be your #1 guy, and in 08/09 and 09/10 he was paired up with Billups who was one of Detroits top players when they won a title, and Nene who at the time was a very solid defensive presence.  Then he also had Kenyon Martin who was somewhat effective at the time, and the bad version of JR Smith.
 
He had some talent to work with

 

[fairlee76]

Yes.  The only team of Anthony's that went anywhere near "deep" in the playoffs was that 2008/09 Nuggets team.  That team had Martin, Billups, and Nene in the starting five and capable bench guys like Chris Anderson, Kleiza, and Anthony Carter.  Not the 2007/08 Celtics roster but certainly not a steaming pile of shit, either.

 

[kazuneko]

You kinda just made my point. Lets not overrate billups because of the anomoly that is the 04 pistons. When billups and nene are your best teammates, that doest invoke big three from anyones mouth. I still want rondo gone but love amd melo is a nice one two who need to be surrounded w a rim protector (asik) and a wing defender.

Send new york one of the brooklyn picks bogans contract and the trade exception for Melo. Sully the 6th pick one from ours or the clippers pick next yr and top 5 protected brooklyn pick for Love. Green for Asik.

I know everyone wants to pick warts at all these guys but lebrons not walking through that door. Melo love and rondo (at least for this year as i dont think hes going to be traded) is probably the 2 seed in the east. Go for it.

I'm not a huge fan of Melo, but if you can get him for that you'd do it in a heartbeat. Adding Melo would also alleviate any concerns you could have about Love signing elsewhere once he hits free agency. But come on, you really think NY is going to trade their best player to a divisional rival for "the bogans contract, a trade exception and one of the Brooklyn picks"? That's a bit hard to believe....

 

[wutang112878]

You kinda just made my point. Lets not overrate billups because of the anomoly that is the 04 pistons. When billups and nene are your best teammates, that doest invoke big three from anyones mouth. I still want rondo gone but love amd melo is a nice one two who need to be surrounded w a rim protector (asik) and a wing defender.

Send new york one of the brooklyn picks bogans contract and the trade exception for Melo. Sully the 6th pick one from ours or the clippers pick next yr and top 5 protected brooklyn pick for Love. Green for Asik.

I know everyone wants to pick warts at all these guys but lebrons not walking through that door. Melo love and rondo (at least for this year as i dont think hes going to be traded) is probably the 2 seed in the east. Go for it.

 
Those Denver teams didnt have a great superstar to put next to Melo, but they went 5 deep with good players, and its just not possible for every superstar to be surrounded by an elite supporting cast.  Furthermore, who would Melo really share the ball with anyway?  Billups was a compliment for Melo in that he could create his own shot if need be, he could run the offense and he didnt demand a lot of shots. 
 
As for Love and Melo how exactly do you see their skills complimenting one another?  Forget about merging their PPG together into one team, I mean actually being able to play the game together cohesively.  Love is a great passer so to utilize that you want your team moving so he can hit the back door cuts and keep the basketball moving instead of dribbling.  Melo is the complete opposite, he wants to dribble, he wants the ball passed to him and he wants everyone else to get out of his way.  Lets put this in perspective a bit, on his 2pt FGs Love was 'assisted' on ~60% of them and Melo was assisted on 30% of his that might actually be the lowest in the league because even Lebron got 40% of his assisted. 
 
 

Even if Ainge is a better GM, he'd be coming into a pretty bad spot. I can't think of a case of a player agreeing to re-sign with a bad team cause he believes in the GM. (Which doesn't mean it won't happen).

 
Can I interest you in Deron Williams.  Whines his way off of a Jazz team that just won 50 games and goes to NJ.  Plays there for all of 11/12 where they win 33% of their games, but he resigns there anyway.  Maybe it wasnt completely the GM but he realized the situation was getting better but its a similar motivation
 
 

If the trade were to happen would it be more likely on Draft night or later like it was for Garnett?

 
Draft night because if you're Minny I have to believe you want to be able to take and make the #6 pick

 

[kazuneko]

Just read an interesting article on celticslife.com about what would need to happen for the Cs to acquire both Love and Melo.
The basics:

 
[SIZE=large]Move #1: Trading for Kevin Love[/SIZE]

Celtics trade: Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans, Jared Sullinger, Chris Johnson, Chris Babb, 6th overall pick in 2014, 2015 Celtics pick, 2016 Nets pick ($18,860,337 in salary, including cap hold for #6 pick)

Celtics receive: Kevin Love ($15,719,062 salary for 2014-15)

 
[SIZE=large]Move #2: Cap clearing trade[/SIZE]

Ok, so now the Celtics have Rondo and Love, but how do they bring Melo in? Well, they need to shed a whole bunch of salary, and to do so, they need to take a page from the Warriors last summer -- dump some of their contracts to a team well below the cap. To do so, they will need to offer up assets to make it work. Here's my best guess at something that could get done.

Celtics deal: Jeff Green, Joel Anthony, Vitor Faverani, Kelly Olynyk, 2015 Clippers pick, 2015 Celtics second round pick (Salary leaving: $17,165,760)

Celtics receive: Future 2nd round pick (heavily protected so it probably doesn't get dealt)
[SIZE=large]Move #3: Decline Pressey's option/deal him for a second round pick[/SIZE]

The Celtics still need just a tad bit more cap space, so they'll need to decline Pressey's $816,000 option for 2014-15, or deal him for a second rounder (second round picks do not have cap holds). Also they'll need to give up their rights to Avery Bradley, making him an unrestricted free agent, and removing his cap hold.

Updated salary:

$40,304,917

So where does this leave us?

Well the 2014-15 salary cap is scheduled to be $63,200,000. So with all of these moves, the Cs will have $22,895,083 in cap space. That's important, because they can offer Melo a max deal.


[SIZE=large]Move #4: Give Carmelo Anthony a 4 year, $95.9 million deal[/SIZE]

With all of their new cap space, the Celtics could give Anthony a max deal (4 years, $95,897,372), with a $22,458,401 salary in 2014-15. Carmelo would have to take a four year deal as opposed to the five years the Knicks could offer, but he'd be making the same yearly salary. So if he's confident he'll still be a max player in four years, he loses no money, and he'll be in a much better situation. Let's say he takes the bait (we've always heard he loves Rondo) -- here's where we stand.

 
The offer for Love seems pretty strong. Also If the Cs can actually clear the cap space, getting Anthony to opt-out and sign with them seems pretty plausible. But can the Cs actually pull that off? Not sure if part 2 of this scenario is realistic...
 
http://www.celticslife.com/2014/06/the-next-big-three-how-celtics-could.html

 

[ivanvamp]

So you have Rondo-Love-Melo, but no more cap space for basically anyone else.  You're going to have a roster full of slop, one pass-first point guard, two big-time scorers, and no defenders.
 
Something tells me that this probably won't be successful, even if they could make all those deals.

 

[knucklecup]

So you have Rondo-Love-Melo, but no more cap space for basically anyone else.  You're going to have a roster full of slop, one pass-first point guard, two big-time scorers, and no defenders.
 
Something tells me that this probably won't be successful, even if they could make all those deals.

I disagree. You're overvaluing the importance of role players and how replaceable they are. Not to mention the fact that creating another big three makes players around the league flock to that team.

You're also forgetting how about 5-10 role players get bought out mid-season and go to the teams with the best chance to win for the minimum.

You get the three and worry about the dime-a-dozen role players when it comes to that.

People had the same concern with the Heat's big three and in hindsight, it was a silly argument.

 

[ivanvamp]

It's just that it looked like there was essentially only enough money to pay league minimum for the other 12 roster spots.  The Big Three in Miami works not only because they are great, but because they all took less than they could have gotten otherwise.  

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Opponents would salivate upon entering the Garden in anticipation of the defensive "resistance" they are about to face.

One common ground among the last two "Big Three's" were that they were among the best defensive teams assembled with KG and LeBron championing that cause. Putting up good offensive numbers only typically maxs you out as a 1st or 2nd round playoff exit.

 

[fairlee76]

Opponents would salivate upon entering the Garden in anticipation of the defensive "resistance" they are about to face.

One common ground among the last two "Big Three's" were that they were among the best defensive teams assembled with KG and LeBron championing that cause. Putting up good offensive numbers only typically maxs you out as a 1st or 2nd round playoff exit.

Yes.  Rondo, Love, and Carmelo are nowhere near the defensive players LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were when they got together.  I don't see these new Celtics succeeding without a few premium defensive players.  And I don't see premium defensive players coming to Boston for the league minimum.
 
Would be an entertaining team to watch, if I could get over my personal distaste for watching Carmelo Anthony alternately pout and play basketball.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Fwiw i want melo and love. Not rondo. Rondo can go fly a kite. If you can get a pick to sweeten a love deal plu s a young player for rondo im all in

 

[MillarTime]

I just can't believe you guys want to gut this team of its assets to end up as a 4 seed in the East.

 
This is where I'm at. No problem going after Love now since he's clearly a top 15 player in the league, but not if he is going to blackmail you into having to give Rondo and Anthony long-term deals. That team is never going to play enough defense to win a title and you are almost certain to regret the Rondo/Anthony deals at some point. 
 
If you can't sell Love on signing long-term and being the first step in a rebuild, you bring in an excellent player with #6 (Smart, then Vonleh or Randle would be my preference) and you still have a ton of assets and can wait for a better spot.

 

[kazuneko]

Actually that hypothetical team would more closely resemble the 2012-13 Knicks, except without Tyson Chandler to provide some defense in the middle-- although if they also added Asik and a scorer off the bench like JR Smith, they'd be pretty close.

I'm not getting the comparison.
In 2012-2013 Amare Stoudamire was already a declining,injured player ( appearing in only 29 games) so -and I'm not sure if this is what you were implying- he's hardly a good comp for Love. That NY team was centered on prolific scoring at SG/SF (JR Smith and Melo) and a defensive presence at Center (Chandler). Felton is hardly Rondo at the point.
Honestly, the only likely similarity the two teams might have is Melo - as a new big three Celtics team of Rondo/Love/Melo would be strong where that team was weak (at PG and PF) and have two big holes in areas that were strengths for the 2012-2013 Knicks team (ie. SG and Center).

 

[Brickowski]

I'm not getting the comparison.
In 2012-2013 Amare Stoudamire was already a declining,injured player ( appearing in only 29 games) so -and I'm not sure if this is what you were implying- he's hardly a good comp for Love.

It's not a perfect comparison, but Love has been hurt quite a bit as well. Amare averaged 15 ppg in 2012-2013, and Love certainly isn't going to average 25 playing with Melo. There is only one ball.

In fact I can't think of two players less suited to be on the floor together than Love and Melo.

 

[wutang112878]

In fact I can't think of two players less suited to be on the floor together than Love and Melo.

 
This cant be said enough

 

[MillarTime]

 
This cant be said enough

Bingo

 

[Ed Hillel]

Beyond the arguments, which I absolutely agree with, that the Celtics would just be going the same way of the Knicks if they sign Rondo/Melo/Love, I can't believe how many people are even willing to bring Melo on at a max contract to begin with. I understand not wanting the Celtics to be at the bottom of the league, but it's much better to be patient and wait a few years for other options than to jump just for the sake of jumping at a poison like Anthony. I think Danny knows exactly what he's doing and I trust him not to make any rash decisions like I personally think some here are willing to make, just to make the team more watchable for a few years.

 

[moondog80]

Why is Carmelo a poison? What did PP accomplish, prior to KG, that Carmelo has not? Getting one round deeper in the playoffs in a crappy year for the East?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

In fact I can't think of two players less suited to be on the floor together than Love and Melo.

 
Rondo and 'Melo?
 
It's funny that Melo wants to play with Rondo; I wonder how long it would take before Rondo stopped passing Melo the ball unless there were under five seconds on the shot clock.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Why is Carmelo a poison? What did PP accomplish, prior to KG, that Carmelo has not? Getting one round deeper in the playoffs in a crappy year for the East?

Cant agree w this more. Guys won at every level. Ncaa. Olympics. His first losing season was last year. He beat our precious big 3 in 2012-13. Melo isnt as bad as the media.makes him.out to be, just like Love isnt as good as the media makes him out to be.

If ainge can get both...he will. Despite the protestations of all the nba experts here. Love and melo would be just fine, and the foundation of a very good team. Complete? Not by a long shot.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think Carmelo is a good player, but I actually agree with those who think he's a poor fit with Love. He is at his best right now as a PF, his defense there is bad, but not as bad as at SF. Also both do their best work getting the ball outside 12 feet. A team with those two could be really good If you add a strong defensive big who is competant on offense, or if Melo is willing to post up SF more often.
I think you probably make the moves if you can because it can be worked around, and worst case Melo is probably easier to get trade value than a bunch of pieces it takes to get him.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Why is Carmelo a poison? What did PP accomplish, prior to KG, that Carmelo has not? Getting one round deeper in the playoffs in a crappy year for the East?

 
Pierce was an immature kid when he started, but Anthony quit on his team and faked injuries once he actually got the superstars he wanted around him and he felt he wasn't getting the attention he deserved. He's put the requisite effort forth to play defense in the NBA once in his 11-year career. He doesn't handle the media well, he lets players get in his head on the court, his durability/age is a concern, and he doesn't appear to make anyone on the court around him better.  Pierce and Anthony have a similar offensive game, but I think that's basically where the comparisons end. Pierce's compete level has always been higher, in the good times and the bad. I wouldn't sign Howard to a long-term max deal due to similar concerns, so I sure as hell wouldn't sign Anthony.

 

[fairlee76]

I can think of plenty of players less suited. Rondo and bradley. Sully and olynyk. Wallace and anyone. The entire 2014 roster. Hyperbole is brutal. Melo and love would be a good 1-2. Stop over thinking this

These comparisons don't make sense.  You are comparing duos with far less talent, duos that are guaranteed to get you nowhere, to a more ideal 1-2.  Love and Rondo makes sense on some levels (you still need a damn good third, but at least you have two cornerstone players in the Love - Rondo scenario).  PP and Ray Allen made sense on a lot of levels.  Love and Carmelo don't make sense on many levels - both defensive liabilities, both dominate the ball, both best-suited to play the 4.
 
You'd need a lot of defensive talent around these guys and I am not sure you get that with the minimal salary cap space and trade assets you have left after these proposed deals.

 

[mcpickl]

Just read an interesting article on celticslife.com about what would need to happen for the Cs to acquire both Love and Melo.
The basics:
 
The offer for Love seems pretty strong. Also If the Cs can actually clear the cap space, getting Anthony to opt-out and sign with them seems pretty plausible. But can the Cs actually pull that off? Not sure if part 2 of this scenario is realistic...
 
http://www.celticslife.com/2014/06/the-next-big-three-how-celtics-could.html

Articles idea is likely unrealistic, and also has some details wrong.
 
His cap space available to sign Melo after salary dump is about 3.5M too high. Salary cap accounting always has to have a minimum of 12 slots accounted for. He only accounts for five. So have to add 7 cap holds at the minimum salary to compute for cap space.
 
At the end of the article, now that his team only has 5 guys, he says they can get bench help using the midlevel exception. That wouldn't be available here. Once you go under the salary cap, you give up all your exceptions for that league year. So Celtics wouldn't have midlevel, biannual, or even their trade exceptions. His entire bench would have to be made up of just minimum salary players.

 

[TomRicardo]

Actually that hypothetical team would more closely resemble the 2012-13 Knicks, except without Tyson Chandler to provide some defense in the middle-- although if they also added Asik and a scorer off the bench like JR Smith, they'd be pretty close.

 
Yes because Rajon Rondo and Kevin Love are the poor man's Ray Felton and Amare Stoudamire....

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
Yes because Rajon Rondo and Kevin Love are the poor man's Ray Felton and Amare Stoudamire....

Rondo is better than Felton, but Love and Melo is a pretty good comp.

 

[swingin val]

Rondo is better than Felton, but Love and Melo is a pretty good comp.

well this is confusing. in the above scenario both love and melo are on the team. were there two melos on the 2012/2013 knick

 

[Devizier]

Love is quite a bit better -- and meshes much better with Anthony -- than Amare Stoudemare was.

 

[ALiveH]

It seems like the celtics supporting cast (with a healthy rondo) is at least as good as the wolves who played .500 with love in the stronger west.  and then add melo on top of that and probably looking at a ~55 win team and ECF appearance in the weak East once they build a roster with the right low-cost role players & get some chemistry playing together.  probably need another great player or rondo to return to peak form & everyone to put in more effort on defense to be a serious contender & the clock will be ticking because carmelo's on the wrong side of 30 now, but it gets them closer.
 
having thought about it more, i don't hate adding anthony & won't say it's impossible to win a title with anthony, but do wish it were a different (almost any other) superstar than him.

 

[Devizier]

I just think a team building strategy that requires clearing the decks for Anthony is not a good one.
 
Burning assets to clear the decks is rarely a good way to go, save for exceptional situations like the Heat's. The Celtics have so many contracts that they'd have to clear, I just don't see it happening. And that's assuming Anthony even wants to play in Boston, although I'd suppose Ainge would have some assurances before steaming ahead with a "clear the decks" strategy.
 
If the Celtics get Love, I think their best course of action would be to hold for a year, maybe trading the TPE for Asik, which keeps their books clean for 2015. Then you evaluate your options midseason. Maybe the Pacers collapse and Hibbert becomes available. Or perhaps, after passing on the ETOs, the Heat turn in a disappointing season (far from a stretch with Wade fading and the lack of quality depth on the roster), bringing Bosh and James to the market next offseason. Maybe Brook Lopez bounces back, but the Nets don't. Marc Gasol will be a free agent. Guys like Goran Dragic will have player options. These teams have enough question marks that you never know who will (or won't) hit the market. 

 

[ALiveH]

completely agree.  I think it's reckless to burn assets just to have the chance to sign someone (for a non prime free agent destination).  Too much risk it could totally backfire.  I would be open to trading for Anthony though if the right deal presented itself.
 
Any of those other guys you mentioned (except Wade & Bosh b/c of age and position respectively) would also be a good trade target if they came available.

 

[kazuneko]

 
Yes because Rajon Rondo and Kevin Love are the poor man's Ray Felton and Amare Stoudamire....

The whole thing is silly. I mean, Stoudamire wasn't even a major factor on that Knicks team.
By 2012-2013 Amare was a shadow of his All-Star form, missing nearly 2/3rds of the season and coming off the bench for limited minutes (he averaged only 23 minutes per game) in his brief stretch of health (in January and February of 2013). Stoudamire's last season that was at all comparable to the Kevin Love of the present day was 2 years earlier - which was pretty much his only good season with the Knicks.

 

[moly99]

The Nets are a better comparison because they weren't weighted down by Stoudamire's contract and did make a trade for their "superstar" to start the rebuild. Starting the rebuild with a trade led to them overpaying for players each step of the way much like people are suggesting we do with Love, Rondo and Melo. The history of teams intentionally overpaying for the sake of satisfying a star is terrible. The Magic overpaying Rashard Lewis for Dwight is pretty much the best case scenario.


I think Kevin Love and Carmelo are both overrated, but I wouldn't object to signing either of them in free agency. We simply don't have enough assets to compete if we have to trade a lot to obtain them, though.

 

[ALiveH]

as for the nets comparison, it might have worked out better if they hadn't traded 3 1sts for 2 ancient former all stars.  Danny was smart enough to be on the other side of that trade.
 
I guess agree to disagree, but in terms of salary I literally don't think it's possible to overpay for Love & Melo b/c I think they're worth the max (except one might regret it on the out years for melo if he doesn't age as gracefully as pierce).  It is very possible to overpay for rondo & I think everyone here agrees with that.  if his salary demands are too egregious maybe he's the one that gets flipped for a young asset or 2.
 
In terms of picks we'll just have to see how it shakes & if it happens how much ainge gives up.

 

[Cellar-Door]

as for the nets comparison, it might have worked out better if they hadn't traded 3 1sts for 2 ancient former all stars.  Danny was smart enough to be on the other side of that trade.
 
I guess agree to disagree, but in terms of salary I literally don't think it's possible to overpay for Love & Melo b/c I think they're worth the max (except one might regret it on the out years for melo if he doesn't age as gracefully as pierce).  It is very possible to overpay for rondo & I think everyone here agrees with that.  if his salary demands are too egregious maybe he's the one that gets flipped for a young asset or 2.
 
In terms of picks we'll just have to see how it shakes & if it happens how much ainge gives up.

They brought them in to be the 3rd and 4th best players on the team. The real problem was that their "star" PG had a precipitous skill decline and their All-Star center missed almost the whole season.
They overpaid sure, but it was a gamble on a team with Lopez, Williams, Pierce, KG being title contenders, which wasn't crazy. Lopez got hurt, Williams and KG had terrible years (in ways that made it seem they were in a rapid decline).

 

[moly99]

I guess agree to disagree, but in terms of salary I literally don't think it's possible to overpay for Love & Melo b/c I think they're worth the max (except one might regret it on the out years for melo if he doesn't age as gracefully as pierce).

I agree that both of those guys are worth risking a max contract on. But that's not what's being suggested here. In addition to giving each guy a max contract, we are talking about sending roughly four first round picks to Minnesota for Love and dumping all of our young role players for nothing to sign Carmelo.

as for the nets comparison, it might have worked out better if they hadn't traded 3 1sts for 2 ancient former all stars.  Danny was smart enough to be on the other side of that trade.

That's exactly the point. The Nets were desperate to land Deron rather than patiently building around Derrick Favors, Brook Lopez and their future picks. So they ended up making foolish overpays every step of the way.

This plan would put the Celtics in exactly the same situation of overpaying Rondo, trading a ton of first round picks for Love, and then giving up way too much to sign Carmelo Anthony to a deal he may not end up being worth anyway.

Kevin Love is arguably the best player drafted in the last six years. At the very least, he's in elite company with Anthony Davis (#1 pick overall), Blake Griffin (#1 pick overall), James Harden (#3 pick overall), and Russell Westbrook (#4 pick overall). Are you starting to catch my drift?

I understand your point. I just disagree with it. There's no chance in hell Kevin Love's next four seasons will be better than Anthony Davis'.

He is massively overrated by people who judge basketball on fantasy stats alone. He is a great rebounder and shooter, but he puts up those massive rebounding numbers in large part because he doesn't play defense.

 

[Marbleheader]

Splitting out

 

[Devizier]

would the Lopez-Favors-Harris-etc. Nets really be any good, however? The trade that fucking killed them was the Gerald Wallace trade. They then fucked their entire future by giving the Celtics what could effectively be four first round picks for what amounts to a single year rental of Pierce and Garnett.

 

[luckiestman]

Cant agree w this more. Guys won at every level. Ncaa. Olympics. His first losing season was last year. He beat our precious big 3 in 2012-13. Melo isnt as bad as the media.makes him.out to be, just like Love isnt as good as the media makes him out to be.

If ainge can get both...he will. Despite the protestations of all the nba experts here. Love and melo would be just fine, and the foundation of a very good team. Complete? Not by a long shot.

 
 
Im going to agree and disagree with this. I was surprised to find that Melo is not just a good guy off the court, but a great guy. I was speaking to a Baltimore business guy who did some work with Melo and in his words: Carmelo has a heart of gold. The guy told me he has worked with plenty of athletes in Baltimore but never someone like Melo. I brought this up to an academic I know and he said Melo's charity has the lowest overhead and seems to be one of the best run athlete charities (in terms of not being a scam like many of them apparently are)
 
All that said, I don;t really like Melo's game. I jokingly in a thread before the playoffs said my ultimate big 3 I would hate would be Love, Melo and Harden. This thread is starting to make me feel like I jinxed myself.

 

[jon abbey]

FWIW, Melo has always played well head to head vs. LeBron, both stats and W/L record. Even this year's terrible Knicks team split 2-2 with Miami, the year before NY took 3 of 4.
 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=anthoca01#stats_playoffs

 

[Reardon's Beard]

Carmelo Anthony will always be that shadow behind James. Not the same elite talent, but an elite talent that came into the league at the same time. They both play in an NBA that is a power league. Teams are more successful when they have more star players and elevates the franchise into the three or four legitimate contenders. If you can get one of the best players in the league here in Kevin Love, you do it, no questions asked. If you can match him with Carmelo Anthony, you do it, whatever it takes. Enough of the softball questions and concerns about character, attitude, and the like. It's good for the Celtics, and it's good for the NBA. This is straight realpolitik and if Danny Ainge can make it happen, you bet your ass he will.

 

[Mugthis]

I don't really have any problem with Carmelo's intangibles. I have a problem with his tangibles. He's a very good player and could be a very good second-banana on a championship-level team. He's a top 10-20 level player, making and expecting max-level contract, and entering the decline stage of his career. It would be foolish for the Celtics to give up much to obtain him, unless he represents the final push to becoming a title contender. I'm not sure adding him to Rondo + Love is such a setup.
 
For what it's worth it, here's where Caremlo has finished in Win Shares.
 
13-14: 13th
12-13: 14th
11-12: Outside top 20
10-11: Outside top 20
09-10: Outside top 20
08-09: Outside top 20
07-08: Outside top 20
06-07: Outside top 20
05-06: Outside top 20
04-05: Outside top 20
03-04: Outside top 20