Cano Gets the Starbucks Endorsement!

[CoffeeNerdness]

Looks like he will have to win that "MVP" award with another team

 
Joe Buck: "Scouts across baseball are nearly unanimous is their belief that one day Robinson Cano will win a batting title."
 
McCarver: "Interesting story about how he got his name..."

 

[Drek717]

It's nice to see a non-Yankee team make a splash signing, especially someone like Seattle who has been relatively quiet for the last while. I like them as a franchise.
 
I wish the Yankees had signed him just to cripple them in the future, so that sucks...they got Ells and McCann for the same price as Cano and don't have the 3 years at the end.

Over the next seven years Cano is a reasonable bet to be worth more than McCann and Ellsbury combined.  The three years on the end should have been the least of NYY's hangups.  They spent top dollar on guys at the high end of the mid-tier range while losing the only real elite FA of the winter.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Losing Ellsbury was coal in the stocking. This at least gets the coal back out. Now we'll see what gets in or out of it going forward. 

 

[kazuneko]

Seattle is aware that since the end of the steroid era late-career, star-level production is all but non-existent, right?
Currently, the only player 38 or older that would be worth even half that AAV is David Ortiz (and maybe Toriii Hunter).

 

[Laschelle Tarver]

I still question McCann's worth.  It's a given he's an upgrade over what the Yanks had this past season, but in almost 900 plate appearances the past two seasons he's at .316/.426/.742.  For comparison, Salty was at .314/.460/.774 over almost the same amount of plate appearances in that timeframe.  One guy just signed for 3 yrs/$21m, one for 6 yrs/$102m.  And, for all we know, McCann's already reaching his downside with six years still to go on the deal.  The point here is that now is an odd time for the Yankees to be claiming fiscal responsibility given what they just doled out to Ells and McCann.
 
(side note:  looking at those number causes me pain in letting Salty go for Piercynski).

 

[Plympton91]

It's so cute how some people refer to the "steroid era" as if it's over.  Less than 1/4 of the people implicated in the Biogenesis scandal ever tested positive.
 
I think the Mariners got a steal in keeping this to a $24 million AAV and I expect that they will be very active in the coming weeks solidifying their team with their significant remaining payroll flexibility.  Wouldn't surprise me to see them get Napoli and Cruz, plus be in on Tanaka if they can't get Price.

 

[PrometheusWakefield]

The Mariners can afford this because the only guys they are paying over $2M are King Felix, Iwakuma and Willie Fucking Bloomquist.
 
Mariners look like this:
 
C - Zunino
1B - Smoak
2B - Cano
SS - Miller or Franklin
3B - Seager
LF - Bloomquist?
CF - Saunders
RF - Ackley?
DH - Montero
 
BN - Franklin or Miller
BN - ?
BN - ?
BN - ?
 
They aren't done yet.  They still need to fill in their bench.  if Ackley isn't going to the OF, then they have that spot and Bloomquist's (if he's going to be a UTIL) to fill, plus either Miller or Franklin to deal.  I'm saying they could be in on any of the top FA OF and a few trade chips to get more bats.  If they did something crazy like sign Cruz and Choo, their lineup could look a lot better.

It's a really upgradable lineup given that they have enough stars and high upside young players already. Put some average or above average talent in the corner OF spots and get some progress out of Zunino, Montero and Smoak and that's an above average lineup with potentially the best rotation in the league. They are contenders.

 

[Van Everyman]

Losing Ellsbury was coal in the stocking. This at least gets the coal back out. Now we'll see what gets in or out of it going forward.

We should do a poll on whether the board would have preferred this or for Ells go to Seattle and Cano re-sign with the Yankees.

 

[Bone Chips]

I think the Mariners got a steal in keeping this to a $24 million AAV ...

I agree.  People are going bonkers because of the length of the deal but what's $24 million in the year 2024?  $15 million in today's dollars?  For someone who projects as one of the best second basemen to ever play the game?  7.5 WAR players don't come around very often.

 

[YouLookAdopted]

Wonder if Ells and Boras assumed Cano would be batting in the middle if that Yankee lineup when they bolted to NYC. Oops!

 

[cannonball 1729]

Wonder if Ells and Boras assumed Cano would be batting in the middle if that Yankee lineup when they bolted to NYC. Oops!

 
I don't think Boras is that stupid.  Also, given the difference between the Yankees' offer and everyone else, I don't think he really cared.  Ellsbury, on the other hand....

 

[strek1]

Wonder if Ells and Boras assumed Cano would be batting in the middle if that Yankee lineup when they bolted to NYC. Oops!

 The only time Boras "Cared" about such things is BEFORE they signed the monster contract. So Jacoby could pump up his stats for the FA market.  Now that Els has made his money everything else is irrelevant.

 

[ItOnceWasMyLife]

I never thought he'd really leave because I figured the MFY would cough it up at the end.  The MFY showing financial restraint is the scariest thing to happen this off-season.

 

[BucketOBalls]

We should do a poll on whether the board would have preferred this or for Ells go to Seattle and Cano re-sign with the Yankees.

 
Depends on weather Cano signed the contract he got or the one the Yankee's offered.
 
 

I never thought he'd really leave because I figured the MFY would cough it up at the end.  The MFY showing financial restraint is the scariest thing to happen this off-season.

 
Only the Yankee's can give out a 153M contract and get praised for fiscal restraint.

 

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I never thought he'd really leave because I figured the MFY would cough it up at the end.  The MFY showing financial restraint is the scariest thing to happen this off-season.

 
But the thing is they haven't .. signing Ellsbury and McCann does not scream financial responsibility. Ellsbury in particular - unless they really expected Cano to leave. . At least McCann fills an obvious need. Supposedly Kuroda is re-signing .. When Tanaka is posted they are going to be going all in on him I think. 
 
They will spend every last cent up to the 189m mark ..  Of course, they will be completely screwed if Arod's suspension is reduced to a 100 games 

 

[bankshot1]

I never thought he'd really leave because I figured the MFY would cough it up at the end.  The MFY showing financial restraint is the scariest thing to happen this off-season.

Sorry to pile on, but the Sox were reported to have offered offered a 5/100 deal to Ellsbury. The Ys responded with a 7/152 with an option for a 8th year. The Y's in essence bid against themselves, and sealed the deal with a 52% premium to the only other known bidder

 

[Average Reds]

 
But the thing is they haven't .. signing Ellsbury and McCann does not scream financial responsibility. Ellsbury in particular - unless they really expected Cano to leave. . At least McCann fills an obvious need. Supposedly Kuroda is re-signing .. When Tanaka is posted they are going to be going all in on him I think. 
 
They will spend every last cent up to the 189m mark ..  Of course, they will be completely screwed if Arod's suspension is reduced to a 100 games 

 
Slightly nuanced interpretation.
 
The idea that they appear to be overpaying for McCann and Ellsbury doesn't refute the notion that they are being responsible.   It refutes the notion that they are capable making smart choices about how to spend  the money they have budgeted.  (Or maybe it's just that they have no experience in properly valuing players within the constraints of a budget.)  If they had ignored their self-imposed budget and spent $250 million on Cano, that would make your case.
 
You are correct that they would be screwed if A-Rod's suspension is reduced.  I don't think it will be, but I am rooting hard for this outcome.

 

[NYCSox]

Can we just stipulate that the MFYs can never get "screwed" if their only damages are paying more money? Cause that's the only downside of busting $189 million.

 

[Doctor G]

Sorry to pile on, but the Sox were reported to have offered offered a 5/100 deal to Ellsbury. The Ys responded with a 7/152 with an option for a 8th year. The Y's in essence bid against themselves, and sealed the deal with a 52% premium to the only other known bidder

 The timing and terms of the Ellsbury deal basically pushed Cano out the door. You have to wonder if the Yankees realisticallybelieved Cano would accept the  deal they offered him. I think they got what they wanted in the end, a realistic chance to rebuild their pitching staff and a payroll under 189M.
 
Despite what they said publically, there was no way they could achieve these two goals if they  signed Cano.

 

[Average Reds]

Can we just stipulate that the MFYs can never get "screwed" if their only damages are paying more money? Cause that's the only downside of busting $189 million.

 
Can we just stipulate that we should not read meaning into things when posters are careful not to say what you are claiming?
 
The Yankees have constructed their roster to get under the $189 million cap.  If they go over this because A-Rod's suspension is shortened, they will be stuck with a sub-optimal lineup without benefit of the cap reset and revenue share rebates they expected.
 
However you want to define it, they would be screwed,  They fact that they have no one to blame but themselves for the mess makes it even better.

 

[NYCSox]

Sure but they would have his bat in the lineup for 70? 80? games as opposed to some noodle bat scrub like Adams or Nunez or Nix.
 
So yeah it would cost them a few bucks but the lineup would be less bad. Otherwise I agree with you.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 34s
Heard end game with #Yankees Cano came few days ago: Cano said $235M to stay, NYY countered at 7-$175M Gap too great He moved on. #Mariners
 

 

[jon abbey]

 

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 34s
Heard end game with #Yankees Cano came few days ago: Cano said $235M to stay, NYY countered at 7-$175M Gap too great He moved on. #Mariners
 

 

 
And that is presumably when they placed a blowout bid on Ellsbury to try to help sell tickets, not because it was a smart baseball move. 

 

[ItOnceWasMyLife]

They (MFY) let a home-grown, potential HOF player leave.....over $$$.  That's financial restraint of unheard of proportions for the MFY.  This was supposed to be his team in a couple of years when CI leaves.  Whose team is it going to be now??? They have NO ONE else.  The proud franchise of the core four will have as their senior home-grown talent....Brett Gardner!  From Jetes to Gardner, talk about a fall off.  And their is no rescue in the minors either.   

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Sure but they would have his bat in the lineup for 70? 80? games as opposed to some noodle bat scrub like Adams or Nunez or Nix.
 
So yeah it would cost them a few bucks but the lineup would be less bad. Otherwise I agree with you.

Well .. If you consider upwards of 100 Million in revenue sharing rebates "a few bucks" then .. Well, there's no point discussing this.

 

[EvilEmpire]

And that is presumably when they placed a blowout bid on Ellsbury to try to help sell tickets, not because it was a smart baseball move. 

I'm sure selling tickets was a factor, but with regards to it not being a smart baseball move, I think only time will tell. Absent injury, is Ellsbury a star player? We know that there is more money in baseball than ever. We also know that stars are getting locked up/extended earlier than they used to. Rebuilding a competitive team exclusively through free agency is harder than it used to be. I can understand the Yankees getting such talent where they can, when they can. Especially if they can get that talent as a slight overpay in a reasonable (though still high) amount of years, which I think is more the case for Ellsbury than Cano. I'd rather have 7 years than 10 under just about any circumstances, regardless of the caliber of the star. I'm sad that they couldn't get Cano for 7 years, but the potential for ARodv2 on a 10 year deal is too high.

 

[staz]

It's almost as if, for some clubs, money is irrelevant now. This is one hell of a bubble, with no signs of bursting.

 

[terrynever]

Cano didn't sign with Seattle for just the Starbucks ...
 
http://www.10news.com/lifestyle/marijuana-activist-throwing-light-up-party-under-space-needle-to-celebrate-legal-pot-anniversary12062013

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Wasn't the obvious joke for the thread title that he got the Nintendo endorsement?

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I don't like Cameron's piece on this at all:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mariners-break-the-bank-hope-robinson-cano-defies-odds/
 
I don't like the comparison to the Royals and the James Shields move.  The Mariners didn't lose a stud prospect in acquiring Cano.  Moreover, he overlooks the need to rebuild the value of the franchise.  If Cameron was in charge of the Mariners, he would probably run the organization into the ground.
 
The Mariners might be closer to winning than he thinks.  They have the arms in the rotation and some intriguing position players. 
 
In the larger picture, value is a difficult concept to quantify.  If Cano mobilizes the fan base, and helps the organization win a championship, the contract makes eminent sense for the organization.  While I'm a strong believer in building a strong farm system, expensive free agents are often indispensable components of championship-winning teams.    

 

[AlNipper49]

Similar to when the then-shitbag Tigers had to overpay for Pudge Rodriguez

 

[MicrowaveDonuts]

This is lunacy for a team like the Mariners.
 
Seattle had ONE 3-win batter last year.  One (1).  Now they have 2.  They didn't even have anybody else at a 2-win threshold.
Boston had 7 3-win batters...with Nava/Gomes teaming up for an 8th. 
 
Seattle wasn't one player away, they're not two players away...they're like 10 players away from being playoff-level competitive. 
 
 
It's akin to replacing all the furniture in your house on a budget of $10,000...and then spending $9,900 on a dining table.  You don't have any fucking chairs.  Seattle is gonna look really awesome for the next 10 years holding their dicks in their hands standing around a really nice dining table. 

 

[JMDurron]

Similar to when the then-shitbag Tigers had to overpay for Pudge Rodriguez

 
This is what immediately came to mind for me, too.  I think the combination of the climate, travel, and current state of the team in Seattle has kept potentially valuable players away for long enough that this is exactly why this deal happened.  It's not a perfect reflection of the Mariners' valuation of Cano, it's that plus the value of becoming players in the market again.  Making other moves along those lines (Price) and then signing other complimentary players becomes much easier.  If the perception of being closer to winning drives down the "Seattle's schedule/travel sucks for everyone and their stadium sucks for position players" premium that they'd otherwise have to pay every other potential piece they would try to sign, then the deal makes more sense for them.  If Seattle can keep good defensive OFers while spending to get bats along the IF, along with a Price/Felix combo in the rotation...it probably won't work because of Angels-type scenarios when aging players get overpaid, but it's more likely to work than doing nothing, and I'm not sure there was a better opportunity to try this strategy than there was with Cano, during a flukeish period where the Yankees aren't spending lavishly.  
 

I don't like Cameron's piece on this at all:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mariners-break-the-bank-hope-robinson-cano-defies-odds/
 
I don't like the comparison to the Royals and the James Shields move.  The Mariners didn't lose a stud prospect in acquiring Cano.  Moreover, he overlooks the need to rebuild the value of the franchise.  If Cameron was in charge of the Mariners, he would probably run the organization into the ground.
 
The Mariners might be closer to winning than he thinks.  They have the arms in the rotation and some intriguing position players. 
 
In the larger picture, value is a difficult concept to quantify.  If Cano mobilizes the fan base, and helps the organization win a championship, the contract makes eminent sense for the organization.  While I'm a strong believer in building a strong farm system, expensive free agents are often indispensable components of championship-winning teams.    

 
I wonder how many jokes are told about "winning the offseason" in the Oakland front office after the last couple of years.  

 

[mauf]

The CBA terms for the last 2-3 years of this deal are unknown, right?

By then, the consequences of blowing through the CBT threshold most every year could be different (and perhaps more onerous). That isn't an issue for the Mariners. It is, of course, for the MFYs.

Cashman was actually willing to give Cano higher AAV -- which matters more than total money for the next few years, especially in 2014 because of the $189mm mandate. So this wasn't a decision about what's going to make for a better team the next few years, but about money that will be paid in the early 2020s, under unknown CBT rules. In other words, an ownership thing.

The riff upthread on the SiaS quote about A*Rod was awesome, and apt. Well done, sir.

 

[JimBoSox9]

The CBA terms for the last 2-3 years of this deal are unknown, right?

By then, the consequences of blowing through the CBT threshold most every year could be different (and perhaps more onerous). That isn't an issue for the Mariners. It is, of course, for the MFYs.



The way premium contracts have been returning value recently, I'd be stunned if the owners didn't put in an Allan Houston Rule of their very own.

 

[teddywingman]

This is lunacy for a team like the Mariners.
 
Seattle had ONE 3-win batter last year.  One (1).  Now they have 2.  They didn't even have anybody else at a 2-win threshold.
Boston had 7 3-win batters...with Nava/Gomes teaming up for an 8th. 
 
Seattle wasn't one player away, they're not two players away...they're like 10 players away from being playoff-level competitive. 
 
 
It's akin to replacing all the furniture in your house on a budget of $10,000...and then spending $9,900 on a dining table.  You don't have any fucking chairs.  Seattle is gonna look really awesome for the next 10 years holding their dicks in their hands standing around a really nice dining table. 

Wrong. And dumb. They have some young hitters who will be reaching their prime in the next few years. They also have two great starters.

The way I see it in the AL West, they sign Choo and find another good starter (a good year--not a 'good' free agent) and they're a contender to make the post season next year.

 

[MicrowaveDonuts]

Wrong. And dumb. They have some young hitters who will be reaching their prime in the next few years. They also have two great starters.

The way I see it in the AL West, they sign Choo and find another good starter (a good year--not a 'good' free agent) and they're a contender to make the post season next year.

 
OK.  I took it a little far.  
 
 
But they were two hundred and twenty five (225!) runs out of second place in their division, and that team didn't make the playoffs.  Count on Cano for what, 70+ of those?  And they're still 150 runs out of competition.  That's a whole lot more than Choo and a starter.  
 
But even in a rosy scenario where the kids like Montero and Miller actually turn into something to build on, the Mariners have now hamstrung themselves with a 34/35 year old 2nd baseman in decline with $130M+ left on his deal when it's time to actually extend these kids.
 
Instead of trying to build something, they're now mortgaging the future for a ceiling of mediocrity. 
 
Given their payroll and apparent new-found bag of money, they'd be way better off taking on albatross 3-4-5 year contracts from other teams and rolling the dice on comebacks.  At least then they'd have some payroll flexibility.  
 
I understand they feel like they had to do something...I'm arguing paying a 41 year-old second baseman $24 million isn't it. 

 

[glennhoffmania]

I'm not going to claim that the deal is reasonable but there are some positives.  Unlike Ellsbury, Cano should have a good enough bat to DH when he gets older.  He could also probably move to 3B or even 1B at some point if necessary, which I'm guessing isn't an option for Ellsbury.  And assuming he stays healthy, he should more than earn his salary for at least the first 5 or 6 years of the deal while playing 2B.  So they got that going for them, which is nice.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

When the Mariners come into Yankees stadium for the first time it'll be must-see TV.  Yankees fans aren't use to losing players like Cano.  I can't think of another example except Reggie Jackson when he signed with the Angels many years ago and returned to the Bronx and hit a HR against the Yankees.  I can't think of a more recent example.  David Wells wasn't high profile enough.   
 
For some reason, this is more interesting to me than watching the Yankees come into Fenway for the first time.  I think most Red Sox fans didn't expect Ellsbury to return anyway.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Yankee fans are just mad because their owner had told them that if they liked their star player they'd get to keep him. 

 

[terrynever]

Cano will get cheered when he returns to NY. He is a very likeable player and person. He might get booed if he homers and Cadillacs around the bases. Reggie got cheered when he returned. Boss was the bad guy who let him walk, and later admitted he made a huge mistake. Swisher got cheered last April. Ex-Yankees generally are cheered first time back. If they played on winners, they got a pass. Wells has always been welcomed back. He comes to Old Timers Day and loves it. In fact, Old Timers Day is a great unifying event for former Yankees.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Yeah, I really can't see much drama when Cano is in town. It's just business. On both the part of the Yankees and Cano.

 

[Puffy]

NM - response no longer relevant (j-management)

 

[mpx42]

He might be Ned Colletti in disguise.

 

[InsideTheParker]

I just saw Cano's intro as a Mariner. He looks as though he's aiming to be an ancient mariner, with quite a beard. The beard, which looks as though it's been growing a while, seems to shout, "Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty I'm free at last."

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Cano was smiling and seemed really happy to be a Mariner, so I'm guessing he hasn't read that Seattle Times article yet.

 

[mpx42]

240 million creates a lot of smiles.

 

[Lowrielicious]

Probably left his razor in NY for Jacoby.

 

[rembrat]

TYD had this great line back in 2010 about ex-Yankees and their facial hair
 

 
 
Former Yankees are like 19-year-old college freshmen: They can't wait to grow unkempt, shitty-looking beards. 

 

[rembrat]

Obviously, TYD could not foresee 2013 and all it's bearded glory.