Callaway or Kapler: Who Gets Fired First?

Callaway or Kapler: Who Gets Fired First?


  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
Thought this might be fun, a quick rundown for those not paying close attention:

Both the Mets and Phillies are underachieving after having high expectations entering the season, both are coming off bad losses, and they start a four game series against each other tonight. Also continuing the parallels, both team's GMs just gave their managers a public vote of confidence this past week.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
Both in the last couple of hours:

"Phillies GM Matt Klentak said Gabe Kapler will be his manager the rest of the season. Also threw his support behind the entire coaching staff. No internal changes. Believes this is just a bad stretch and they will turn around their season."

"Brodie says this incident doesn't change his confidence in Callaway. "
 

EvilEmpire

Dope
Staff member
Dope
Gold Supporter
Apr 9, 2007
9,804
Washington
I think Callaway will last the season too, but he is more likely to go first if not. I think the Regan hire was probably a placeholder just to get through the rest of this season and then the Mets clean house and bring in a new manager and staff all at once.

I guess it is good that the GMs are giving votes of confidence. Who is giving the GMs votes of confidence? I think I'd get rid of them all.
 

johnmd20

literally like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
38,074
New York City
Mets are too cheap to fire Callaway. Considering the team is owned by criminals who built their empire on the back of Bernie Madoff, they need to watch every penny. The Mets will be bad for as long as that criminal family owns the team. And they should be bad. The Wilpons are bad people.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
497
I think they both make it to at least the All-Star break, but maybe not to the off-season. It seems like Callaway has to be on thinner ice because of changes to his coaching staff and the intense media scrutiny. I'll say Kapler hangs on until September and then they can him in the final week to make a statement as the Phils limp to the finish line.

*
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
8,211
Mets are too cheap to fire Callaway. Considering the team is owned by criminals who built their empire on the back of Bernie Madoff, they need to watch every penny. The Mets will be bad for as long as that criminal family owns the team. And they should be bad. The Wilpons are bad people.
wait, what? I thought they lost money to Madoff. Fred Wilpon made his money in real estate, building residential developments, and tax-advantaged properties around the country. Not that the median NYC real estate developer has his nose clean, but "criminals" and "on the back of Bernie Madoff" seems closer to magical thinking than it does even an unreasonable characterization of the history.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
Mets score 2 in the first, Phillies come back with 3 in the bottom of the inning. This is going to be a fun series for people not rooting for either team.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
The Mets schedule from now until the ASB, 11 more games:

3 @PHI
3 ATL
2 NYY
3 PHI

The second half starts in MIA, my guess is Callaway will be gone by then.
 

Average Reds

Dope
Staff member
Dope
V&N Mod
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
25,070
Southwestern CT
wait, what? I thought they lost money to Madoff. Fred Wilpon made his money in real estate, building residential developments, and tax-advantaged properties around the country. Not that the median NYC real estate developer has his nose clean, but "criminals" and "on the back of Bernie Madoff" seems closer to magical thinking than it does even an unreasonable characterization of the history.
My recollection is that they did not lose money with Madoff. Their "losses" were relative to their expected return, not against their principal. (By the time Madoff admitted it was a Popnzi scheme, he had already paid the Wilpons more in "annual returns" than they had invested with him.)

However, it's worth noting that the Mets structured their finances around the expectation of a steady stream of profits from Madoff, so when it was revealed that his investments were, in fact, a Ponzi scheme, their long-term financial plans became a pile of smoldering ashes.

Here's one example: the famous Bobby Bonilla contract (which will continue paying him until 2035, I believe) was loaded with deferred money at an 8% interest rate. That seemed nuts to most, but it made a ton of sense to the Wilpons, because they assumed they could arbitrage the deferred money by investing it with Madoff and make 15%. (Oops.)

As I said, that's just one example. My assumption is that their entire lives were structured similarly, so when that "guaranteed" return vanished, they were screwed.
 

YTF

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Callaway without a doubt IMO, but he probably makes the all star break. The Mets are honoring the '69 team this weekend I believe and I think part of that celebration will include the dedication of a street (boulevard) to Tom Seaver. I can't imagine the Mets want anything in addition to their poor performance to distract from that.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Leaves after the 8th inning
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Callaway without a doubt IMO, but he probably makes the all star break. The Mets are honoring the '69 team this weekend I believe and I think part of that celebration will include the dedication of a street (boulevard) to Tom Seaver. I can't imagine the Mets want anything in addition to their poor performance to distract from that.
Look up June 6, 1983 in Red Sox history

Le Coup LeRoux, on Tony C night
 

SemperFidelisSox

suzyn
SoSH Member
May 25, 2008
17,900
Boston, MA
Mets lose again. 7 in a row. 21st blown save of the season. One more with Atlanta and then two with the Yankees. I got Thursday’s off day as the day Callaway gets the boot.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
Phillies and Mets starting another series tonight, Phillies are 4-15 in their last 19 non-Mets games.
 

shawnrbu

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
24,197
The Land of Fist Pumps
2-2 going into the 9th. Díaz blows up again versus Philly allowing 4 runs in 0.1 IP. Another deGrom start wasted. Mets are singlehandedly keeping the Phillies alive for a Wild Card.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
They were celebrating the 30th anniversary of Seinfeld at the Mets game tonight, so this is pretty perfect:

 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
I can't believe the Mets broke Diaz so quickly, he is a 25 year old stud with the same stuff that he dominated the AL with last year.

What the Mets have done with their catcher position since Brodie took over nine months ago is quite the saga, the short version is that they had Mesoraco (DeGrom's catcher his dominant 2018) and D'Arnaud. Brodie did not like those options, so he offered Grandal a huge deal, which he turned down only to eventually take a fraction of from MIL (tangential but amusing). Then he was unsuccessful in pulling the trigger for Realmuto, so he offered the good offense/awful defense Wilson Ramos 2/19 and Ramos jumped at it. Mesoraco refused to report to AAA (and D'Arnaud was out of options) and asked to be released, teams almost always say yes but Brodie would not let him out of his deal, so he retired. So Ramos and D'Arnaud were their two guys to start the season, then they released D'Arnaud maybe a month in (he is now playing quite a bit for the much wiser Rays) and went with Ramos and the weak hitting but defensively very strong Tomas Nido, who one should note had been in the system all along.

All of that only leads up to this another month or two later: now both DeGrom and Syndergaard have asked for Nido to be their personal catcher over the higher paid/just signed Ramos (and that is going to happen). So Brodie had three better in-house options just nine months ago but bumped them all to sign a higher paid worse option, now two are gone for nothing and Ramos is killing them because BVW valued offense over catching ability for his catchers. Good job, dude!
 

Gdiguy

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,369
San Diego, CA
The only thing I'll say is that D'Arnaud has had a lot of chances over the past few years, and between injuries and just overall poor performance hasn't really won the job at any point... if he succeeds with the Rays I'm happy for him, but I haven't seen anything that would suggest to me he desperately needed to be held onto

I really don't know why Diaz specifically, and the bullpen in general, has been so incredibly awful - I'm almost ready to jump on the 'bad defensive catchers can destroy a team' idea, because they've been just amazingly awful the entire year
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
44,022
The only thing I'll say is that D'Arnaud has had a lot of chances over the past few years, and between injuries and just overall poor performance hasn't really won the job at any point... if he succeeds with the Rays I'm happy for him, but I haven't seen anything that would suggest to me he desperately needed to be held onto
Which is fine, but then don't protect him over Mesoraco a month earlier (pushing a slightly unwilling Mesoraco into retirement), then dump him after a whopping 25 PAs this year. Right or wrong, it's continually hilarious decision making, no matter the GM (Omar Minaya looking good in retrospect), apologies to you if you are a Mets fan but stop doing it to yourself. It is going to be funny/sad/something when they dump Ramos and pull Mesoraco off the couch to team with Nido... :)